Ole was hired because he is cheap by PL standards. I still reckon Poch is pencilled in to replace Guardiola but can’t for the life of me see a quality manager wanting to come given the shitfest which is our transfer policy.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Problem was never what he achived in terms of position and titles. Problem was what he did beside that. And you should know that I like Mourinho and still appriciate what he did in terms of trophies and position.
You don’t have to look far for these moment anymore, but the big ones are more surprising. Before the palace game, I questioned the inclusion of James and Fosu and how that will hinder the success of the team. Just today only, I stated at half time, we will comeback through a counter attacking goal and we did. Also ended up victorious, which was a surprise if you looked at our performance. Anyway, I m not trying to make it a thing just for little stuff that anyone with decent football knowledge can call, but rather for big stuff where I get a lot of criticism for, but then I make others eat crow
.Pochettino might well sign an out and out striker. He might get Haaland or even convince Kane to join. Regardless, that will not hinder Pochettino success much.He has deployed Moura and Ali as an alternative to an out and out striker, so he is flexible enough to change his system.
You are my favourite poster. I’m still unsure how serious you are.You don’t have to look far for these moment anymore, but the big ones are more surprising. Before the palace game, I questioned the inclusion of James and Fosu and how that will hinder the success of the team. Just today only, I stated at half time, we will comeback through a counter attacking goal and we did. Also ended up victorious, which was a surprise if you looked at our performance. Anyway, I m not trying to make it a thing just for little stuff that anyone with decent football knowledge can call, but rather for big stuff where I get a lot of criticism for, but then I make others eat crow
Pochettino might well sign an out and out striker. He might get Haaland or even convince Kane to join. Regardless, that will not hinder Pochettino success much.He has deployed Moura and Ali as an alternative to an out and out striker, so he is flexible enough to change his system.
As for Poch, he has never signed a decent striker Or a striker good enough to lead a team. His signings are actually shocking. He lucked out with Kane and and funilly enough Kane was also his downfall when he wasn’t flexible enough to play someone else in a final because he relied on Kane so much
Love these sort of posts.
No context or even sources, but they reckon someone who no one tried to employ since they've been out of a job a good year, is walking into the city job...............and at same time has a pop at his own club, claiming why they arent coming here when the club dont even want him, because of their terrible transfer record.
Did you see Poch transfer record at Spurs
Seriously Poisoned Chalice?????
I'd argue things happened differently which each of our previous managers.
Problem with Ole's tenure so far is that these can't be used against other managers without the same being used against Ole. In which case, what's the point?Indeed..
I said around 10. That was off the top of my head. We were bought in 2005 and last won the league in 2013. So we won the league 8 years after they arrived so when you said "the success was already there before they arrived " you were wrong.
Looking at this, we've spent double the amount of everyone bar City: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1
I agree that there should be a director of football.
"I don't agree with you so you don't understand what's going on".
Not saying Ole isn't at fault but any manager coming in under this management and owners will struggle.
We had Ferguson he won the league despite the Glazers .. Have a look at his spend under them and it won't compare to City and Chelsea .
You are telling me I'm wrong that the success was already there before they arrived ?
I will end this conversation with hahahaa okay then we wernt successful before they arrived .
Uh, is it not? Moyes failed miserably and hasn't recovered since, sacked, Van Gaal failed and hasn't been in football since, sacked, Mourinho did the best job so far before he got toxic as hell, sacked, if we continue on this path Ole will end up, sacked. For any young manager looking to come to us, they will be looking with trepidation at the lack of ambition of the owners, and the fact that no manager has lasted a few years since the retirement of Sir Alex. It's a poisoned chalice aslong as we have these owners.
Moyes was a bad appointment , Van Gaal and Mourinho were clearly past their best and they were sacked because they couldn't achieve even the bare minimum . Our incompetence in market is a separate issue Glazers aren't shy to spend it's just that we have wasted a lot any Young manager with clear philosophy should be pretty confident to do well with us.
Ole was hired because Woodward pays too much attention to excitable social media commentary and got carried along on the crest of a deluded wave.
Was there people on social media clamouring for Ole before we got him? I can’t remember that
Me neither I don't do social media unless you include this forum but I assume the 12 year olds and drunk romantics were out in force. And neither do I know where Woodward gets his notions about taking the club forward from but he's been winging it and sacking Ole would shine a light on that and reflect horribly on Woodward's fitness for his role.
They definitely were when he was caretaker before getting the job permanently. Can you not remember the hysteria after that night in Paris? People we saying shit like give him a 10yr contract, it’s impossible not to give him the job etc. Pundits as well.
I don’t either and whatever twitter links etc I see are usually through this forum, I jus thought it was shock that Ole was chosen, it was more of let’s try something else then appease fans with what they want thats all
That’s a bit different after the run he started care taker manager as, what I meant was Woodward didn’t appoint him caretaker because the fans wanted it
Not true.
Moyes had have 3 or 4 jobs since. He was never up to the challenge of such a big club. He’s back to the level he was at before Utd.
LVG said it was going to be his last job, and he retired afterwards.
Jose got another job and will continue his cycle of getting sacked every 2-3 years to get a massive payoff.
I’m not saying it’s not a challenging environment - but the suggestion that being United manager kills your career as a result is both ridiculous and false.
I’ve no issue with the fact we brought in Ole, it was exactly what the club needed at the time. After the toxic mess Mourinho had left behind the club and fans needed a lift and bringing in a club legend and someone who’d put an arm round the players was the right thing to do and was proved correct with the run we went on after he came in. The real problem was not following through on the plan we’d set out which was hiring Solskjaer to see out the season while we looked to hire a top quality manager in the summer.
Well Fergie's never found another club.
I see why you’re saying but when did we ever set out that plan? And what too manger was available, please don’t say Pochettino.
we were stuck between a rock and a hard place and both decisions couldhave been right or wrong in hindsight
If Poch is so great then why did the world fall apart for Spurs?
The pressure of managing United is off the scale compared to Spurs too. Our fans expect success. Spurs fans just hope for it.
Don't want him anywhere near our club. Plays nice football? So what. Eddie Howe played nice football too for a few years. He's not the answer either.
I'm not saying Ole is the man either but I don't want to change the manager again until Woodward is gone ideally. And if we do have to change the manager before Woodward goes then it better be for someone absolutely top drawer in the mould of a Pep or Klopp type manager.
Seeing that Brighton 3 Spurs 0 result hopefully shows some of you that the grass isn't greener.
The pressure of managing United is off the scale compared to Spurs too. Our fans expect success. Spurs fans just hope for it.
Don't want him anywhere near our club. Plays nice football? So what. Eddie Howe played nice football too for a few years. He's not the answer either.
I'm not saying Ole is the man either but I don't want to change the manager again until Woodward is gone ideally. And if we do have to change the manager before Woodward goes then it better be for someone absolutely top drawer in the mould of a Pep or Klopp type manager.
Seeing that Brighton 3 Spurs 0 result hopefully shows some of you that the grass isn't greener.
If Klopp is so great then why did the world fall apart for Dortmund during the first half of the 2014-15 season? In 13-14 they came 2nd but after 19 matches of the 14-15 season they were rock bottom and had only won 3 matches. Surely Klopp can't such a good manager after all...
The truth is that all cycles come to an end. Pochettino is one of Spurs' longest serving manager of all time and with very good reason. Pochettino managed Spurs for 5 years and had taken that squad as far as he could. 86 points and 2nd place in 16-17, Champions league final in 2019, four consecutive top 4 finishes, all whilst playing very good football in the process most of the time. This is a very good record in my book. You have to remember that this is Spurs we're talking about, a team that is not known for compete for cups or play in the CL on regular basis. You very rarely see managers surviving 5 years at their clubs in this day and age. It's perfectly normal for things to go so stale after such a long time without a proper squad rebuild.
There is very little chance that Woodward will leave any time soon so the fact is we'll have to change managers under him sooner or later. That's something that we have to accept. And there are very few top drawer managers in today's game. Klopp and Guardiola will never be attainable for us, Conte and Allegri play very defensive football, Hansi Flick and Zidane probably won't be leaving their clubs any time soon. Tuchel might be an option when he leaves PSG but we don't know when that will be. So are options are either to accept mediocrity under Solskjær or go for a better coach.
At the end of the day it is the coach that coaches the team, not the chief executive and I think a better coach, with a modern playing style, could definitely do a better job than Solskjær. The football we play under him just isn't very good. We score some nice counter attacking goals from time to time, but I would like to see us properly dominate more matches. Not just sit back and wait for openings against teams like Crystal Palace and Brighton. We have some very good players in our squad and despite the fact that we still need to strengthen I don't think it's unfair toward Solskjær to expect us to play much better football after 18 months of Solskjær's coaching. For most coaches it only takes a few weeks or months to put their stamp on the team. Solskjær has been here for 18 months and I still can't see exactly what is plan is or what his style of play is, apart from just sitting back against everyone and play on the counter or wait for the penalty.
I feel that Pochettino would get us to play a lot better football and give us a lot more consistency in the near future than Solskjær. He might not win us all the cups and titles every season but I'm sure we would be in contention for a few years at least. And who knows, maybe a new team and a new environment could help him to add cups to his his resumé. But if it doesn't work out then of course he would be moved on and we'd look to bring in another coach who could hopefully do a better job. That's what every club does in today's football, whether you like it or not.
There may be other coaches out there (outside the 'top drawer mould') who could do a better job than Pochettino could with our squad. I've seen other posters here mention ten Hag (Ajax), Rose (Gladbach) and Nagelsmann (Leipzig). I'd be all for hiring a modern thinking coach who'd play good football whatever the name. But I don't really watch a lot of football outside the PL and CL so I wouldn't feel comfortable touting their names. Pochettino would be my first choice based on what I saw his Spurs side do under him. His spell wasn't perfect, but from what I saw with regards to their style of play, there's no doubt in my mind he would do a better job than Solskjær.
Also, on your last point. It's just a silly comparison. Did you know that Tottenham beat Crystal Palace 4-0 at home last season under Pochettino. We've lost against them at home twice in a row under Solskjær. Grass isn't always greener and all that...
Good post. Now im doubting Ole even more. Food for thought I guess.
Don’t try to use logic. There is no hope in trying to convince those that can’t see the fantastic job Pochettino did at Spurs. They seem to be susceptible to very low quality information and almost immune to facts. When you look at how he got Spurs to the champions league with a budget of a relegation team and then consistently made Spurs enter the top four, his trajectory is even better than Klopp before he got his big opportunity at Liverpool where he got the support to implement his ideal philosophy. If we had competent board member that are knowledgeable in the footballing side of things, they will already have an agreement with Pochettino to take over here at United.
Absolutely amazing post and utterly spot on.
You're welcome, buddy.
That just isn't true, they've been playing shite football for the last two years. They only played that type of really good attacking football in the first two years or so, when Dele Alli was also on fire. So this suggests to me that you've got on some rose tinted glasses about the man, which makes me question the credibility of the rest of your post.
Didn’t Harry Redknapp get spurs to the champions league without wonder Kane? Anyone would swear you were relegation candidates before Poch turned up there way you wax on about him
Not consistently. Spurs became a much better side with the appointment of Poch. I remember before him, Arsenal fans would always mock them and even United fans with the infamous, “lad it is Tottenham” comment. That narrative changed completely with Pochettino and the fans there deserves to give him a statute for all the positivities he brought to the club.
They had wonder Bale and Modric.
Ramos won them a trophy with players like Jenas and Malbranque. Spurs were always a reckless attacking side by tradition, so @Zlatan 7 has a point there. Poch did great things with little money, but lets not act like he revolutionized some no mark club.
I wouldn't agree that they were "shite for the last two years". 16-17 was their peak performance wise but they still put in a lot of fantastic performances in the 17-18 season. Dominating home wins against Real Madrid, Liverpool, United and Arsenal and a 3-1 away win to Conte's Chelsea come to mind. I was also very impressed with their style in both outings against Juventus despite Juve coming out on top in the end. In the 18-19 season they were 2nd in the league halfway through that season with only City and Liverpool scoring more goals. It was mainly during the second half of the 18-19 where they began to go very stale and they were mostly poor for the next 9 months of competitive football. So I would say my point is still fair that over a 5 year period they played good football for most of that time.
I might also add that his Southampton side impressed me a lot when he was their coach. They played some really wonderful stuff under him.
You have a point about the cycles, but I remember they played some really dire stuff at times for his final two years, even in the year where they reached the CL final. I think the biggest doubt about him is whether or not he can strike a balance between good looking football and actual results, especially at the highest level. I don't think Ole is going anywhere in the short term, but when he does some day, we'd be better off looking at someone like Nagelsmann who actually does revolutionize the game with progressive ideals and a clear vision. I'm also not sure about Poch in the transfer market, or whether he was actuallly responsible for some of their best signings like Son, or was it their head of recruitment. The issue I had with your post was that it was too positive and only showed the good but hid away the doubts, and much of it is a gamble on the fact that he did well with clubs in the very short term.
Yeah I'm not doubting they had some bad patches from time to time after their peak season in 16-17, but I think overall their football was still good until their collapse in 2019.
I wouldn't mind it if the club for Nagelsmann ahead of Pochettino, from what I've heard he's a very talented modern thinking coach. But like I said in my original post, I don't watch a lot of football outside of the PL and CL so I haven't seen much of his Hoffenheim and Leipzig sides play and therefore I can only go by his reputation. And I wouldn't feel comfortable to say that I prefer him only because I read loads of good stuff about him and his methods on the internet. That's why I'd prefer Pochettino at the moment, I've simply seen more of his methods to be able to take a fair judgment.
Tottenham's recruitment policy under Pochettino is a bit of a mystery. I'm sure he must have had some say with regards to new signings but he did complain at a press conference in the summer of 2019 that his job title should read 'head coach' rather than 'manager' and that he was not in charge of transfers. So I don't think it's completely fair to praise him or criticize him for the signings that were made during his time there. If he was our manager he'd probably have more of a say in transfers than he had at Spurs but it's very difficult to say whether his signings would be a success or not. But putting transfers aside, the man is a damn good coach, as he has showcased at Southampton and Tottenham.
I agree we won the league despite the Glazers but spending less than City and Chelsea 7 years ago is irrelevant to whether we can win now.
I'm saying you're wrong that we weren't successful after they took over. We won the league 8 years after that. Had that already happened by 2005?
I didn't say that but if that's the best you can come up with, then maybe you should avoid conversations.