Is a United voice heard by the powers that be or do the fans overestimate their importance in the grand scheme of things?

Fortitude · Oct 2, 2020

Long-winded title as OP's tend to get skipped and the lead taken from the header.

There is a lot of talk about the 'fallout' from this window should it [continue to] be dire, but with no fans allowed in stadiums and no real way for any resounding message to be put across, is it not just wishful thinking to believe anything you do has any impact on how the likes of our board conduct themselves going forward?

The more likely scenario off the back of this window being the worst yet under Woodward's tenure - bar none - is a bit of grumbling and a spike in social media posts that resonate with other fans, but do nothing in the grand scheme of things, isn't it?

I'm not being a doom merchant here, but I am genuinely interested in hearing from those who have aired thoughts/feelings in line with some kind of protest and what they realistically think that amounts to for a board that seems to be wholly disconnected from the fanbase and the Woodward-Judge duo who would simply be adding this window to a number of others where they've made a complete balls up of proceedings.

Kaos · Oct 2, 2020

The trouble is our fanbase is a fickle one and the Parasites/Woodwank know it all too well.

As with previous years, we kick up a temporary fuss, make our voices heard at OT, social media and the like, and after a brief false dawn of success or shiny new signing, we go back to an apathetic state and the protest momentum just withers away.

They're probably delighted with the fan ban at stadiums, and are probably banking on the fans' appetite for protest to simply die out by the time they're allowed back in the stands.

The only power the fans have in truly hurting the owners is by taking their money away and starting a calculated campaign of boycotting the club and hurting it financially. But again this will be almost impossible to do - OT will still be packed to the rafters with day trippers, they'll still sell merch by the millions.

So really the only thing we can bank on is the club sponsors getting fed up with our brand being associated with mediocrity and simply looking elsewhere. The fans can perhaps play a role in that - sponsors don't exactly want to be entangled in a hostile environment.

liamp · Oct 2, 2020

The influence of fans is tangible up until a certain point. We've seen that a supporter-led movement can help push managers out the door, but fans are essentially powerless when it comes to trying to topple the CEO or the ownership group of a club of this size.

Prodigal7 · Oct 2, 2020

Bottom line is no club exists without a fan base.
the problem is any boycott of tickets/merch etc would be impossible to make effective due to the size and disbursement of our fan base, it’s impossible to coordinate enough to give any consequences to the higher ups, as you put it.

romufc · Oct 2, 2020

The influence fans cause can be underestimated as well. The reason the anti glazer was halted in January, Bruno was signed to shut most fans up.

This time, there will be no such signing, the movement will be post transfer window. Also, the movement against sponsors would work more than movement against the club. Sponsors would not want to be seing Glazer out on their social media posts, which will be relayed back to the club.

The movement needs to continue for a prolonged amount of time before changed can happen. We may not get rid of the Glazers, but Ed Woodward will have no where to hide.

We are seing the likes of Evra, Neville, Rio all coming out speaking about them, this is not just fans now, this is getting TV coverage, it impacts the image of the club.

alanjohnson · Oct 2, 2020

What exactly will the fan voice acheive? Sir Bobby Charlton and Sir Alex Ferguson are on the board.

The One and Only · Oct 2, 2020

The first thing everyone should do is to unfollow United on Twitter and Instagram. Delete the app. And post screenshots on Twitter and get it trending

It's not much, but it's a start. If they lose millions of followers in a matter of days, i'm sure they'll take notice. Better than doing nothing

TheLord · Oct 2, 2020

Hah. A large section of the fanbase still believes that United have done "okay" with the Glazers at the helm of things. Many of them are still under the delusion that supporting the owners and the management is the "classy" way forward. Some will be even quick to point out that we were relegated in 1973 and that fans are overentitled in 2020.

And the supporters won't be back in the ground before January/February, at least. And to shut us all up, Ed will get one or two average 40m-odd players in the winter.

What hope do we have?

K Stand Knut · Oct 2, 2020

Kaos said:
The trouble is our fanbase is a fickle one and the Parasites/Woodwank know it all too well.

As with previous years, we kick up a temporary fuss, make our voices heard at OT, social media and the like, and after a brief false dawn of success or shiny new signing, we go back to an apathetic state and the protest momentum just withers away.

They're probably delighted with the fan ban at stadiums, and are probably banking on the fans' appetite for protest to simply die out by the time they're allowed back in the stands.

The only power the fans have in truly hurting the owners is by taking their money away and starting a calculated campaign of boycotting the club and hurting it financially. But again this will be almost impossible to do - OT will still be packed to the rafters with day trippers, they'll still sell merch by the millions.

So really the only thing we can bank on is the club sponsors getting fed up with our brand being associated with mediocrity and simply looking elsewhere. The fans can perhaps play a role in that - sponsors don't exactly want to be entangled in a hostile environment.

no!

The problem is that the majority are the fans who attend games once in a blue moon, spend a shed load of money and don’t really come back. The vocal fans who go week in, week out and voice their objections are the minority so the owners are happy to let them whinge knowing the majority of their income comes from elsewhere.

In fact, I’d argue that match going revenue is so inconsequential that the Glazers don’t care.

The fact that fans are fickle and apathetic Most of the time just doesn’t help

pcaming · Oct 2, 2020

The fans in the stadium have the most influence, but refuse to use it to any serious degree.

clarkydaz · Oct 2, 2020

pcaming said:
The fans in the stadium have the most influence, but refuse to use it to any serious degree.

they were doing it until Bruno signed, then it all went away immediately

LoneStar · Oct 2, 2020

The issue (if you can call it that) with a global brand like us is that if one fan doesn’t want to attend a game, there are 10 other people who are willing to pay the money to do so.

Even people protesting on social media get bored after a month or so. I think we have enough power to remove the manager, but not the board. Ans sadly can’t see it changing unless we are bought by someone who wants us to win things, which is very unlikely.

Andersons Dietician · Oct 2, 2020

K Stand Knut said:
no!

The problem is that the majority are the fans who attend games once in a blue moon, spend a shed load of money and don’t really come back. The vocal fans who go week in, week out and voice their objections are the minority so the owners are happy to let them whinge knowing the majority of their income comes from elsewhere.

In fact, I’d argue that match going revenue is so inconsequential that the Glazers don’t care.

The fact that fans are fickle and apathetic Most of the time just doesn’t help

I don’t often watch Goldbridge or pay that much mind to anything he says but he makes a good point That the two largest fan groups that could actually do something and get people together don’t want to do anything. Supposedly some get kicks backs from the club so maybe they feel like they don’t want to jeopardise that.
Realistically the club is too expensive to buy except for a very few elite and it makes a tidy sum for the Glazers, why would they want to sell unless it no longer makes them money.

There is basically nothing the fans can do.

Maurice Setters Training · Oct 2, 2020

Kaos said:
The trouble is our fanbase is a fickle one and the Parasites/Woodwank know it all too well.

As with previous years, we kick up a temporary fuss, make our voices heard at OT, social media and the like, and after a brief false dawn of success or shiny new signing, we go back to an apathetic state and the protest momentum just withers away.

They're probably delighted with the fan ban at stadiums, and are probably banking on the fans' appetite for protest to simply die out by the time they're allowed back in the stands.

The only power the fans have in truly hurting the owners is by taking their money away and starting a calculated campaign of boycotting the club and hurting it financially. But again this will be almost impossible to do - OT will still be packed to the rafters with day trippers, they'll still sell merch by the millions.

So really the only thing we can bank on is the club sponsors getting fed up with our brand being associated with mediocrity and simply looking elsewhere. The fans can perhaps play a role in that - sponsors don't exactly want to be entangled in a hostile environment.

Mass 1 star reviews on all platforms for any Nike, Chevrolet etc product. With a message Glazers out. With some kind of coordinated Viral campaign to get mass participation.

Stretender · Oct 2, 2020

TheLord said:
Hah. A large section of the fanbase still believes that United have done "okay" with the Glazers at the helm of things. Many of them are still under the delusion that supporting the owners and the management is the "classy" way forward. Some will be even quick to point out that we were relegated in 1973 and that fans are overentitled in 2020.

And the supporters won't be back in the ground before January/February, at least. And to shut us all up, Ed will get one or two average 40m-odd players in the winter.

What hope do we have?

I really dislike the top reds.

Don't criticize the club.

Support the capitalist Glazers.

No Saudi money it's dirty. Yet the Queen of Great Britain is besties with the Saudi King. UK sells class A weaponry including fighter jets to Saudi Arabia. Effectively that money funds the NHS.

I don't like hypocrites. Glazers out you useless leeches!!!

Escobar · Oct 2, 2020

The influence is neither strong nor big enough, most fans sit far away from Old Trafford. So for the Glazers and Ed, no consequences. They couldnt care less, they will sit out 2-3 weeks of criticism thats it

Tiber · Oct 2, 2020

All that matters is the TV money and keeping key sponsorships

Glazers didn't bat an eyelid when fans were protesting in the streets and burning effigies of their family. Doubt they give a shit that we aren't happy with an enteral quest to secure champions league tv money

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg · Oct 2, 2020

pcaming said:
The fans in the stadium have the most influence, but refuse to use it to any serious degree.

match going fans clearly have the most influence. There is however, quite often a difference in feeling/ opinion from the match going fan to non-match going fans. So it’s not necessarily that they refuse, but think differently to an online consensus.

passing-wind · Oct 2, 2020

Footballs subjective some fans will protest others won't. Fans only become a problem to the owners when their actions have a direct influence on value. The pandemic circumstances is a good example to represent the financial impact of not attending games, trying to convince 50,000+ to do the same in a casual context is near impossible. With the diversification of fans opinions and ideals towards the team / clubs it's always going to a minority to the majority that communicate dissatisfaction.

r3idy · Oct 2, 2020

I still believe we are going through the same thing that Arsenal fans went through some years ago and we can all see how that ended up. We spend approximately £80m net per season that allows the club to tread water between 6th and 4th. I am sure the Glazers look at it with the mindset that champions league football is a priority (be that Europa route or league qualification). If we finish that and a net spend of £80m we are golden. To get the odd 3rd is a bonus. However to get to second or first it will need an investment of £200m+ for the next two or three years. They just wont get the return on it. This view point is in opposition to the vast majority of fans and rightly so.

We think we are going in the right direction but the squad is still unbalanced as it ever was. The best part of £400k / £500k per week on four goal keepers alone tells its own sorry story. Other players we cannot budge because of ridiculous contracts that incentivises players like Jones to be happy sitting in the stands.

Sadly I do not see any campaign shaming the Glazers / Woodward into a one or two window change of heart.

Rooney1987 · Oct 2, 2020

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
match going fans clearly have the most influence. There is however, quite often a difference in feeling/ opinion from the match going fan to non-match going fans. So it’s not necessarily that they refuse, but think differently to an online consensus.

I have a season ticket and mostly this is correct, however Im not so sure this time. I can't comment on the situation now because we can't go to games and I'm not going to pub. Speaking my mates with season tickets, they're as angry as this forum is. Maybe it's not a toxic as social but go back to last December and January you could feel the anger round OT. After those opening 2 games I can only imagine it'd be as bad. When every jounro and ex pro is on the club, this isn't going away.

glazed · Oct 2, 2020

TheLord said:
Hah. A large section of the fanbase still believes that United have done "okay" with the Glazers at the helm of things. Many of them are still under the delusion that supporting the owners and the management is the "classy" way forward. Some will be even quick to point out that we were relegated in 1973 and that fans are overentitled in 2020.

Football fans aren't usually that politically savvy to be honest. Plus many people get off on on outlandish statements of loyalty in adversity as a show of character.

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg · Oct 2, 2020

Rooney1987 said:
I have a season ticket and mostly this is correct, however Im not so sure this time. I can't comment on the situation now because we can't go to games and I'm not going to pub. Speaking my mates with season tickets, they're as angry as this forum is. Maybe it's not a toxic as social but go back to last December and January you could feel the anger round OT. After those opening 2 games I can only imagine it'd be as bad. When every jounro and ex pro is on the club, this isn't going away.

yes, very interesting because we don’t have that barometer at the moment.

K Stand Knut · Oct 2, 2020

Andersons Dietician said:
I don’t often watch Goldbridge or pay that much mind to anything he says but he makes a good point That the two largest fan groups that could actually do something and get people together don’t want to do anything. Supposedly some get kicks backs from the club so maybe they feel like they don’t want to jeopardise that.
Realistically the club is too expensive to buy except for a very few elite and it makes a tidy sum for the Glazers, why would they want to sell unless it no longer makes them money.

There is basically nothing the fans can do.

and the two largest fan groups are.........

K Stand Knut · Oct 2, 2020

Rooney1987 said:
I have a season ticket and mostly this is correct, however Im not so sure this time. I can't comment on the situation now because we can't go to games and I'm not going to pub. Speaking my mates with season tickets, they're as angry as this forum is. Maybe it's not a toxic as social but go back to last December and January you could feel the anger round OT. After those opening 2 games I can only imagine it'd be as bad. When every jounro and ex pro is on the club, this isn't going away.

And in January, Fernandes was bought and OT went back to normal .

charlenefan · Oct 2, 2020

The board will 'blame' the pandemic for the lack of spending, the same pandemic which will shield them from any actual backlash

They're not daft, they'll know what the fanbase's reaction will be to lack of spending and they'll know fans can't threaten to vote with their wallets this time (not that that's a real threat as they'll always be someone who wants tickets, buy merchandise etc etc)

As most have known for a long time now they just don't care

fps · Oct 2, 2020

As long as there are enough local fans to fill the stadium each week, the rest of the local fans mean sod all.

Snuffkin · Oct 2, 2020

The green and gold campaign achieved nothing because fans kept paying. If covid lasts all season it's hard to say if it will bolster the Glazers or weaken them. Fans will only be able to protest online but the club will be in dire financial straits. It may force them to sell up.

Jinn · Oct 2, 2020

We need Sir Alex to talk up. If he goes on a negative rant about the owners, all hell will break loose.

Bilbo · Oct 2, 2020

Mitten put it in a perfect nutshell in his interview this week. Fans are too fickle. The things they are upset about are lack of signings and/or poor form. That anger very quickly subsides into irrelevance if fans get their transfer fix, or the team string a few wins together.

There is no figurehead, no viable alternative to the Glazers, and no plan in place.

TheLord · Oct 2, 2020

Jinn said:
We need Sir Alex to talk up. If he goes on a negative rant about the owners, all hell will break loose.

He has always been very supportive of the Glazers. Almost always.

Kaos · Oct 2, 2020

K Stand Knut said:
no!

The problem is that the majority are the fans who attend games once in a blue moon, spend a shed load of money and don’t really come back. The vocal fans who go week in, week out and voice their objections are the minority so the owners are happy to let them whinge knowing the majority of their income comes from elsewhere.

In fact, I’d argue that match going revenue is so inconsequential that the Glazers don’t care.

The fact that fans are fickle and apathetic Most of the time just doesn’t help

You sure? Match day revenue for the club in 2019 was reported to be around £110million. Doesn't sound inconsequential to me, especially considering the glazers paid themselves a tenth of that in dividends back in January.

K Stand Knut · Oct 3, 2020

Kaos said:
You sure? Match day revenue for the club in 2019 was reported to be around £110million. Doesn't sound inconsequential to me, especially considering the glazers paid themselves a tenth of that in dividends back in January.

When you can lose it and still earn more revenue than 95% of other PL teams, I’d say it’s fairly unimportant, currently. And, probably not something that would make the Glazers sell quickly

ti vu · Oct 3, 2020

Majority of the fanbase is sheeple, not seeing the bigger the picture.. They may sometimes grow so discontent as the rest, but easy to appease. There is no enough to force to the power that be to change fundamentally .

Andersons Dietician · Oct 3, 2020

K Stand Knut said:
and the two largest fan groups are.........

Red Army and United supporters I think he said. Not sure on that “United supporters” one, it’s something like that.

He reckons they are the only two groups that could properly organise something that people could get behind being the largest but one gets kick backs from the club.

K Stand Knut · Oct 3, 2020

Andersons Dietician said:
Red Army and United supporters I think he said. Not sure on that “United supporters” one, it’s something like that.

He reckons they are the only two groups that could properly organise something that people could get behind being the largest but one gets kick backs from the club.

TRA (The Red Army) have to be very, very careful what they are seen to be doing I would suspect.

They, or at least the people behind it, have put a lot, and I mean a lot, of work in to get some kind of atmosphere back in to the stadium.

That could be completely undone by any kind of action deemed to be taken against the ownership or Woodward.

I know the what the comeback to this will be but it’s thin ice.

Loon · Oct 3, 2020

How many clubs have had change brought about by fans? Especially ownership changes. Genuinely curious. It took those two idiots to shoot themselves in the foot to get them out of Liverpool and Arsenal fans have been moaning for years about their owner.

Andersons Dietician · Oct 3, 2020

K Stand Knut said:
TRA (The Red Army) have to be very, very careful what they are seen to be doing I would suspect.

They, or at least the people behind it, have put a lot, and I mean a lot, of work in to get some kind of atmosphere back in to the stadium.

That could be completely undone by any kind of action deemed to be taken against the ownership or Woodward.

I know the what the comeback to this will be but it’s thin ice.

I guess it comes down to priorities there. Personally I don’t see how anything can remove the Glazers other than the club not making money, I just don’t think social media campaigns or protests will make them think it’s not worth it.
Until a miracle happens or someone with endless funds offers them something they can’t refuse then this is how the club will be.

clarkydaz · Oct 3, 2020

K Stand Knut said:
TRA (The Red Army) have to be very, very careful what they are seen to be doing I would suspect.

They, or at least the people behind it, have put a lot, and I mean a lot, of work in to get some kind of atmosphere back in to the stadium.

That could be completely undone by any kind of action deemed to be taken against the ownership or Woodward.

I know the what the comeback to this will be but it’s thin ice.

Who started the Ed woodward Chants? They disappeared soon as Bruno was signed

AneRu · Oct 3, 2020

The club dangles its huge fan base to sponsors when pitching deals, so of course the same fan base has influence if it speaks with one voice over a sustained period. I don't see how a sponsor would want to be associated with a club at war with its fans and who are targeting the same sponsor for this association.

The thing is do we know what we want? We only make this noise when signings aren't made but if we get Dembele on Monday and he scores a goal on debut all would be forgiven until the next failure.

Is a United voice heard by the powers that be or do the fans overestimate their importance in the grand scheme of things?

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