"So many managers have been sacked"...

Skills · Oct 4, 2020

4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran through had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

Mod edit:
Folks asked for trophy comparisons...
United since 2013 - 1 FA, 1 EFL, 1 EL
Real since 2013 - 2 leagues, 1 Copa, 4 CL
Barca since 2013 - 4 leagues, 4 Copa, 1 CL
Bayern since 2013 - 7 leagues, 4 Pokal, 1 CL
Chelsea since 2013 - 2 leagues, 1 FA, 1 EFL, 1 EL

AneRu · Oct 4, 2020

Skills said:
4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

Moyes wouldn't have gone past Christmas and LVG too would have been gone by Christmas. We are so indecisive its unreal, they are depths that once a manager reaches it's clear that he will never be good enough, the depths we reached under Ole from the day he was confirmed permanent until Bruno came in were telling.

adexkola · Oct 4, 2020

Who knows?

Is there a correlation between manager sack rate and trophy count? What are Liverpool and City doing?

*This post is not an endorsement of Ole.

Bojan11 · Oct 4, 2020

Skills said:
4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran through had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

We stuck with thinking that we will have another Fergie here for 25 years.

elmo · Oct 4, 2020

Skills said:
4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran through had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

1 for every change in the seasons.

Idxomer · Oct 4, 2020

If we sacked more managers or the same ones earlier, it would've meant the club and the board has better standards.

Unfortunately, they don't.

FootyGirl88 · Oct 4, 2020

@Skills please include number of trophies won, to reiterate your point.

pratyush_utd · Oct 4, 2020

It's people like Gary who is responsible for this nonsense that manager should get eternity to get it right. Every top club goes through manager and still be successful.

We love to be romantic about these things

altodevil · Oct 4, 2020

Aye but how many of those teams have Ed Woodward managing recruitment?

Regulus Arcturus Black · Oct 4, 2020

Skills said:
4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran through had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

Both Moyes and Ole should’ve been gone in no time, and we’d have been miles better off for it. We instead like to set ourselves back and waste so much time on managers that are clearly not up to it.

A ruthless board would’ve instantly hired Poch.

PoTMS · Oct 4, 2020

If we sacked Van Gaal when we should have, we would've had a clear run at Klopp.

Big Ben Foster · Oct 4, 2020

Managers get sacked when things aren't working out. That's how every club operates. There's no such thing as a "sacking club" and a "non-sacking club" as some like to say.

izec · Oct 4, 2020

Skills said:
4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran through had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

To answer your question, 5-7 easily. Every one of them would sack their manager at this stage after such a loss and the previous time he got. Because there is no coming back or improvement to be expected. We won't finish top 3.

Bojan11 · Oct 4, 2020

PoTMS said:
If we sacked Van Gaal when we should have, we would've had a clear run at Klopp.

We were too busy celebrating 4th at that time.

Woodenlung · Oct 4, 2020

PoTMS said:
If we sacked Van Gaal when we should have, we would've had a clear run at Klopp.

Klopp didn't want to join United after speaking to Woodward a out the job.

Big Ben Foster · Oct 4, 2020

PoTMS said:
If we sacked Van Gaal when we should have, we would've had a clear run at Klopp.

We wouldn't have gotten him. Woodward fecked up the pitch with his "adult Disneyland" BS.

alexthelion · Oct 4, 2020

Idxomer said:
If we sacked more managers or the same ones earlier, it would've meant the club and the board has better standards.

Unfortunately, they don't.

Surely it would mean that they didn';t have a clue and couldn't get anything right?

Regulus Arcturus Black · Oct 4, 2020

Big Ben Foster said:
Managers get sacked when things aren't working out. That's how every club operates. There's no such thing as a "sacking club" and a "non-sacking club" as some like to say.

Well there clearly is, we are a rosey eyes feckwit club that gives every manager a shit load of time they don’t deserve.

b82REZ · Oct 4, 2020

Bojan11 said:
We stuck with thinking that we will have another Fergie here for 25 years.

Fergie's farewell speech did more damage to this club than we realise.

There's a section of supporters who think it's not in our culture to question the managers and if given enough time they'll turn into SAF 2.0.

elmo · Oct 4, 2020

AneRu said:
Moyes wouldn't have gone past Christmas and LVG too would have been gone by Christmas. We are so indecisive its unreal, they are depths that once a manager reaches it's clear that he will never be good enough, the depths we reached under Ole from the day he was confirmed permanent until Bruno came in were telling.

Ole supporters are sticking their hand into the ground and shouting that it's a rebuild / pogba's injured / rashford's injured / we've no depth/ pogba's not match fit / ole's not backed by the board.

Nothing at all to do with his coaching or as it's quite clear, the lack of it.

bazalini · Oct 4, 2020

I like Donald Trump more then Ole tbh. That is the magnitude of it.

hobbers · Oct 4, 2020

We should never have appointed a dour mid-table plodder like Moyes.

We should never have appointed LVG knowing he was planning to retire after 3 seasons.

We should never have given a permanent contract to the Championship-standard caretaker manager.

Real, Barca and Bayern would never have hired the above 3. Let alone take ages sacking them.

RashyForPM · Oct 4, 2020

And each of those 4 clubs have experienced great success in that period of time. Only Chelsea hasn’t had a CL, but they’ve won 2 PL’s. If managers are doing badly, sack them.

Raw · Oct 4, 2020

We don't operate like a big club really. Those teams will get rid of managers if the football is tumescent to watch and the players clearly lose interest. We keep them on in the hopes they can scrape top 4, then when they don't we get shocked and sack them immediately after without really planning much in the future.

Then when the next manager comes in, we have to give him time to deal with the mess the previous manager left. At least 2 seasons. Sacking Mourinho was probably the quickest decision we made with regards to getting rid of a manager, and even then it was still a little late.

Why is it we're so eager to give new managers extensions so quickly (or the full time position in Ole's case) yet take forever to get rid when it's clearly not working?

alexthelion · Oct 4, 2020

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Both Moyes and Ole should’ve been gone in no time, and we’d have been miles better off for it. We instead like to set ourselves back and waste so much time on managers that are clearly not up to it.

A ruthless board would’ve instantly hired Poch.

Thankfully they didn't.

Brwned · Oct 4, 2020

The reality is all of those clubs have more appeal than United. Better places to live, better structures, better payouts for the sack. Only one of those things is fixable and outside of football manager it isn't easy to do, especially when it competes with United's biggest strength, its commercial power. That's the reality.

Being "decisive" is irrelevant when the decision to sack a failing manager means bringing in a mediocre manager. We were rejected by the elite managers straight after sir Alex for a reason. Our fans have trouble accepting that.

hobbers said:
We should never have appointed a dour mid-table plodder like Moyes.

We should never have appointed LVG knowing he was planning to retire after 3 seasons.

We should never have given a permanent contract to the Championship-standard caretaker manager.

Real, Barca and Bayern would never have hired the above 3. Let alone take ages sacking them.

Who did we have on our list of managers ahead of Moyes? The answer gets to the heart of the point you're overlooking.

diarm · Oct 4, 2020

Skills said:
4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran through had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

Each of those 4 clubs, even Barcelona who are a shambles, are better structured behind the scenes than we are.

LazyRed-Ninja · Oct 4, 2020

The thing is, what could Ole have done against the blunders of Maguire? That header back which lead to the 1-1 was the start of it all.

Skills · Oct 4, 2020

hobbers said:
We should never have appointed a dour mid-table plodder like Moyes.

We should never have appointed LVG knowing he was planning to retire after 3 seasons.

We should never have given a permanent contract to the Championship-standard caretaker manager.

Real, Barca and Bayern would never have hired the above 3. Let alone take ages sacking them.

All of those clubs have made their fair of shocking managerial appointments - but they're smart enough to move on, rather than doubling down on poor mistakes.

VP · Oct 4, 2020

We really have a cult of a manager in this club and among our fans.

Idxomer · Oct 4, 2020

alexthelion said:
Surely it would mean that they didn';t have a clue and couldn't get anything right?

Changing them would mean they were at least trying to correct their mistakes quickly and they aim for something more than the bare minimum.

Right now, they're slow, incompetent, and have no standards.

AbusementPark · Oct 4, 2020

Why start pogba, guy has been absolute muck this season. No protection for the defence, be more ruthless bench him and ddg. Today was mot the game to play pogba and Bruno. Fred should have started, maguire another shocker. People will complain manager hasn't been backed, he's spent over 200m and I know he's undoing a lot of the previous managers mistakes but cmon it's going down hill rapidly.

monosierra · Oct 4, 2020

Big Ben Foster said:
Managers get sacked when things aren't working out. That's how every club operates. There's no such thing as a "sacking club" and a "non-sacking club" as some like to say.

The thing is the club has to have some kind of consistency regardless of managers. Some kind of institutional principles and setup that goes on throughout managerial changes. Clubs continue despite players coming in and out and managers should be no different. The thing is United had an one man institution in SAF which has yet to be replaced by an institution. That could be a Director of Football or some kind of council of wise men with footballing experience. Bayern wouldn’t collapse with a managerial change. Not Real or Barca or even Chelsea. Somehow there’s the idea that United lives and dies by our manager. That really should not be so.

Siorac · Oct 4, 2020

Brwned said:
The reality is all of those clubs have more appeal than United. Better places to live, better structures, better payouts for the sack. Only one of those things is fixable and outside of football manager it isn't easy to do, especially when it competes with United's biggest strength, its commercial power. That's the reality.

Being "decisive" is irrelevant when the decision to sack a failing manager means bringing in a mediocre manager. We were rejected by the elite managers straight after sir Alex for a reason. Our fans have trouble accepting that.

Who did we have on our list of managers ahead of Moyes? The answer gets to the heart of the point you're overlooking.

Better places to live? Manchester City don't seem to struggle. They had no problem attracting Pep Guardiola who's as elite as it gets. Liverpool got Klopp, one of the top managers in football. Everton have Carlo Ancelotti managing them though admittedly he's probably past being considered an elite manager now.

Better payouts for the sack? You're kidding with that one, right? What was it Mourinho got, 15m?

Better structures - yes, no argument there. Don't see why that isn't fixable, however. It's clearly beyond the willingness and competence of the current leadership but incapable and impossible are very different things.

Skills · Oct 4, 2020

Brwned said:
The reality is all of those clubs have more appeal than United. Better places to live, better structures, better payouts for the sack. Only one of those things is fixable and outside of football manager it isn't easy to do, especially when it competes with United's biggest strength, its commercial power. That's the reality.

Being "decisive" is irrelevant when the decision to sack a failing manager means bringing in a mediocre manager. We were rejected by the elite managers straight after sir Alex for a reason. Our fans have trouble accepting that.

Who did we have on our list of managers ahead of Moyes? The answer gets to the heart of the point you're overlooking.

Surely that doesn't matter when the two best managers in the world are in Liverpool and across the road Manchester too?

AneRu · Oct 4, 2020

elmo said:
Ole supporters are sticking their hand into the ground and shouting that it's a rebuild / pogba's injured / rashford's injured / we've no depth/ pogba's not match fit / ole's not backed by the board.

Nothing at all to do with his coaching or as it's quite clear, the lack of it.

People are more concerned with being right or proving their top red credentials over actual facts. Not signing Sancho has nothing to do with today, in fact the Sancho chase highlights everything wrong with the club because a Pogba - Matic - Maguire triumvirate in the heart of the team simply lacks energy, pace and energy so spending £100m on a winger won't do anything to solve that weakness.

That is before we look at the coaching, the lack of defensive organization, the insistence to play an unbalanced midfield and the lack of any attacking patterns to get the best out of our attackers.

The recruitment decisions were all wrong and misguided. Why sign a limited fullback like AWB or a slow CB like Maguire when you intend to play a high line. Pogba and Matic are too pedestrian, Bruno plays like a second striker when he is needed to help the very one paced midfield Ole insists on.

RUCK4444 · Oct 4, 2020

Once Ole goes I will resign myself to the fact that this really is potentially a 30 year wait for us.

You heard it banded about after SAF left but I’ve never bought into it (“a 30 year wait”), we are too big a club, too much money I told myself. The problem though is within the club, not what we are up against in opposition, the challenge is the owners and there is no easy or quick fix to that.

We will sack and hire, waste money, rinse repeat.

Idxomer · Oct 4, 2020

Mourinho
Ancelotti
Benitez

All CL winners, two of them won big trophies with Madrid too and got moved on when they were no longer deemed fit for the club.

Zidane resigned when he thought he doesn't have more in him to give the team.

Idxomer · Oct 4, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
Once Ole goes I will resign myself to the fact that this really is potentially a 30 year wait for us.

You heard it banded about after SAF left but I’ve never bought into it, too big a club, too much money I told myself. The problem though is within the club, not what we are up against in opposition, the challenge is the owners and there is no easy or quick fix to that.

This is very much the reality now.

elmo · Oct 4, 2020

AneRu said:
People are more concerned with being right or proving their top red credentials over actual facts. Not signing Sancho has nothing to do with today, in fact the Sancho chase highlights everything wrong with the club because a Pogba - Matic - Maguire triumvirate in the heart of the team simply lacks energy, pace and energy so spending £100m on a winger won't do anything to solve that weakness.

That is before we look at the coaching, the lack of defensive organization, the insistence to play an unbalanced midfield and the lack of any attacking patterns to get the best out of our attackers.

The recruitment decisions were all wrong and misguided. Why sign a limited fullback like AWB or a slow CB like Maguire when you intend to play a high line. Pogba and Matic are too pedestrian, Bruno plays like a second striker when he is needed to help the very one paced midfield Ole insists on.

I would expect a competent manager to have a tactic that fits the players he has available rather than endlessly playing his supposed favoured formation that our players can't perform well in.

Ole has been given loads of excuses for all his failings and if he's not a former fan favourite, he would have been sacked by last October at the latest.

"So many managers have been sacked"...

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