"So many managers have been sacked"...

Brwned · Oct 4, 2020

AneRu said:
I don't agree with this theory at all because the only manager you'd say turned us down after a proper approach is Guardiola and it turns out he was already on his way to Bayern by then. London for all its famed advantages still has one CL to its name whilst the North has nine.

The way I see it is that United failed to attract top managerial talent because they have a clown in charge, nothing more. Do you really believe an out of work Zidane/Ancelotti would turn down £20m a year at United just because London is better to live in when no club down there pays as much?

The problem at United is that Woodward has learned and forgotten nothing about running a football club, particularly navigating the murky waters of the transfer market and this restricts us in what we can do. Of all the four managers that we have hired don't you find it predictable that all were either out of work or employed at Molde in Ole's case? The Glazers probably think it's an unnecessary expense to pay for a manager and hence make half hearted approaches to look just to tick the name off the list.

No I think they would go to another team in Europe first. And they'd happily sit out for a bit until that opportunity comes up. As both Zidane and Ancelotti did. If we can find a top manager desperate for a job who has no big european or london club looking for them, then yes we can get them. That happens pretty rarely, maybe once a decade.

Skills said:
You are using a single/unique moment to define our place as a football club. It's wrong.

The year Fergie retired was unique and screwed us because he himself only decided to leave in December of that season. We were quite simply way too late to make a play for one of the 'top' managers who were moving that summer.

Guardiola had already committed to Bayern
Mourinho was a dead man walking at Real and Chelsea had already sounded him out for a return (Rafa was only ever a caretaker)
Ancelotti himself was on the way to Madrid

We ended up with Moyes because those 3 were off the table, and SAF was caught up in the romantic idea his mate was his 2nd coming and deserved a shot at the top.

Who were we going to get when fergie was going to leave the first time? We would have been sounding out opportunities ever since Sir Alex's first announcement, just in case. The answers didn't change in over a decade.

It isn't one moment, it's an uncomfortable truth.

Louis Van Gonads · Oct 4, 2020

The owners cannot be sacked. You have to accept that won’t happen. And they won’t sack Woodward. Zero chance.

All you can do is appoint the best manager for the job and that certainly is not OGS. They took a gamble on him and it failed.

Appointing a new manager doesn’t necessarily mean we will suddenly start winning everything, but it will improve us. OGS is not a good manager by any stretch of the imagination.

Hugh Jass · Oct 4, 2020

Stick with Ole or hire a new manager, some players have to go, especially Pogba, with his agent stirring up shit at every opportunity.

Personally i think there is too much player power at the club. Rashford is off like a politician, Lingard dancing on instagram and Shaw is saying we need to buy more players. On top of Pogba doing feck all every game.

I remember when Rooney said we had to buy new players and Ferguson basically told him to shut the feck up and let him (Ferguson) deal with who to buy and who to sell.

sullydnl · Oct 4, 2020

Don't have a problem with managers who should be sacked being sacked.

The problem is when sacking those managers allows those responsible for the overall direction of the club to escape consequences for their own, worse performance. Especially when they're the ones who made the decision to appoint the not-good-enough managers in the first place.

I hate seeing the "who will be the next manager" threads because I know there will be no similar repercussions for anyone above the manager. At least at some clubs those things also change.

Denis79 · Oct 4, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
Yes. 10th place would be unacceptable and that won’t be the case.

Three dodgy games after a shitshow preparation preseason doesn’t make me believe we will finish 10th.

I on the other hand think we'll be around 10th by December. The poor start feels to me to be more than just match fitness. Ole doesn't believe we'll achieve anything this season and the players seem to share his sentiment.

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

Why are we still looking at the manager and singling them out? United don't have enough quality players nor have they been able to improve to their full capacity, only did it begin to truly show for Martial and Rashford last season. Greenwood has a lot to improve on and keep churning out goals most weeks than not.

Take away the manager position....do you believe the club can sustain themselves and identify, recruit, sign, players that will play well regardless of manager? That includes getting rid of players too.

AneRu · Oct 4, 2020

Brwned said:
No I think they would go to another team in Europe first. And they'd happily sit out for a bit until that opportunity comes up. As both Zidane and Ancelotti did. If we can find a top manager desperate for a job who has no big european or london club looking for them, then yes we can get them. That happens pretty rarely, maybe once a decade.

I refuse to believe that a manager would turn down £20m a year at United and say an £80m net spend per season just to live in London. And we rarely ever compete for a manager with those clubs, last time we did was in 2013 and it was to Real Madrid. Anyone loses out to them.

The challenge is that the Glazers don't want to pay for a manager. Pochettino would have been ours in 2019 but we chose the cheap option in Ole and now its unravelling in front of us.

Godfather · Oct 4, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
Why are we still looking at the manager and singling them out? United don't have enough quality players nor have they been able to improve to their full capacity, only did it begin to truly show for Martial and Rashford last season. Greenwood has a lot to improve on and keep churning out goals most weeks than not.

Take away the manager position....do you believe the club can sustain themselves and identify, recruit, sign, players that will play well regardless of manager? That includes getting rid of players too.

Bullshit. Look at any of our first three games. Our squad is good enough for a better manager to do way better in all three of them.

JPRouve · Oct 4, 2020

Rajma said:
Moyes should have been sacked 3 months into the job, LVG after 1 season, and we gave too much time for Jose. If we acted proactively on all occasions we wouldn’t be where we are currently. SAF final speech has created so many problems as a lot of fans became too blinded.

Moyes should have been sacked when he told the club that he was going on holiday after signing his contract.

Siorac · Oct 4, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
Why are we still looking at the manager and singling them out? United don't have enough quality players nor have they been able to improve to their full capacity, only did it begin to truly show for Martial and Rashford last season. Greenwood has a lot to improve on and keep churning out goals most weeks than not.

Take away the manager position....do you believe the club can sustain themselves and identify, recruit, sign, players that will play well regardless of manager? That includes getting rid of players too.

What does this even mean? Those advocating for changing the manager do so because they think players can't just play well regardless of manager. They don't want to take away the position of manager. There's a marked difference between how Bayern played with Kovac and how they play with Flick. Even their players don't play well regardless of the manager, clearly.

Giggzy P · Oct 4, 2020

hobbers said:
We should never have appointed a dour mid-table plodder like Moyes.

We should never have appointed LVG knowing he was planning to retire after 3 seasons.

We should never have given a permanent contract to the Championship-standard caretaker manager.

Real, Barca and Bayern would never have hired the above 3. Let alone take ages sacking them.

I think you do the Championship a disservice there mate

Brwned · Oct 4, 2020

AneRu said:
I refuse to believe that a manager would turn down £20m a year at United and say an £80m net spend per season just to live in London. And we rarely ever compete for a manager with those clubs, last time we did was in 2013 and it was to Real Madrid. Anyone loses out to them.

The challenge is that the Glazers don't want to pay for a manager. Pochettino would have been ours in 2019 but we chose the cheap option in Ole and now its unravelling in front of us.

I agree United chose a symbolic yes man because he was cheap and might be able to work cheaply with youth. The other side of that, though, is there was no-one with enough star power to make them think it's worth splashing the cash. No one they thought could get us instantly back to the top, bringing with it substantial rewards. Which isn't entirely illogical. Pochettino is better but not so much better for them to take the leap. The actual rewards of being one place better but still being 2nd tier at best isn't that great. If it was Guardiola, the short term investment has long term appeal. We just don't have that choice.

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

Godfather said:
Bullshit. Look at any of our first three games. Our squad is good enough for a better manager to do way better in all three of them.

Bullshit that they cannot play their way into being match fitness after zero preseason? They are not near their optimal level.

Look at the bigger picture, please.

Andycoleno9 · Oct 4, 2020

Yoh sack managers until you get the right one. Simple as that. Same as players.

Pughnichi · Oct 4, 2020

let’s not forget as well that Ole was initially appointed as temporary boss until we found the right one.

Ed gets excited after the new manager bounce...offers Ole new contract...form nosedives making said contract look questionable

You couldn’t make it up. Only a post Covid good run gave us some hope...but even the last few woeful games of the season were telling.

nice guy. Club legend...but not good enough imo. Look at what Ancelotti is doing in his first season at Everton. Look at Bielsa at Leeds.

good coaches create good teams. All the while, Ed thinks the big money signings will get us back to winning ways. Falcao, Schweinstiger, Di Maria, Pogba

90 + 5min · Oct 4, 2020

Skills said:
4 managers. Ole's only our 4th manager in 7 years. Since 2013 :

Real Madrid - 6 managers.
Barcelona - 5 managers.
Bayern Munich - 5 managers.
Chelsea - 5 managers.

How many managers do you think these clubs would've ran through had they ever approached our levels of crap in the last 7 years?

In some of those teams it is about politics. You can win everything and still get sacked.

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

Siorac said:
What does this even mean? Those advocating for changing the manager do so because they think players can't just play well regardless of manager. They don't want to take away the position of manager. There's a marked difference between how Bayern played with Kovac and how they play with Flick. Even their players don't play well regardless of the manager, clearly.

Bayern already had very good players and they were clearly underperforming. They were league champions for many consecutive years!!

Ole showed he can get the team playing well and getting results. But after 3 PL games after the ass backwards preseason and not enough reinforcements.....he should get sacked?

I'm all for sacking managers when it's merited, but not now for Ole. Complete knee jerkreactions.

Brwned · Oct 4, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
Bayern already had very good players and they were clearly underperforming. They were league champions for many consecutive years!!

Ole showed he can get the team playing well and getting results. But after 3 PL games after the ass backwards preseason and not enough reinforcements.....he should get sacked?

I'm all for sacking managers when it's merited, but not now for Ole. Complete knee jerkreactions.

It's not knee jerk when people were saying even during our good period last season that the underlying fundamentals weren't good enough. You can disagree with the assessment but it's conclusively wrong to say it's knee jerk, because it predated any of the incidents you're suggesting caused these knees to jerk.

RUCK4444 · Oct 4, 2020

Denis79 said:
I on the other hand think we'll be around 10th by December. The poor start feels to me to be more than just match fitness. Ole doesn't believe we'll achieve anything this season and the players seem to share his sentiment.

Meanwhile Liverpool losing by the same (halftime) scoreline against a worse side in villa.

These games happen, especially with a terrible preparation to the season that we’ve had.

Regarding the belief in the squad and from the manager, yeah I wouldn’t believe either if we finished as high as we possible could last season and the board have no intention of strengthening the starting 11.

Siorac · Oct 4, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
Bayern already had very good players and they were clearly underperforming. They were league champions for many consecutive years!!

Ole showed he can get the team playing well and getting results. But after 3 PL games after the ass backwards preseason and not enough reinforcements.....he should get sacked?

I'm all for sacking managers when it's merited, but not now for Ole. Complete knee jerkreactions.

He also showed that he can go through long periods of awful form with the team. When we're bad, we're really bad, but sometimes we go through some purple patches. It's all very unconvincing so far. One step forward, two steps back.

VojjE · Oct 4, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
Bayern already had very good players and they were clearly underperforming. They were league champions for many consecutive years!!

Ole showed he can get the team playing well and getting results. But after 3 PL games after the ass backwards preseason and not enough reinforcements.....he should get sacked?

I'm all for sacking managers when it's merited, but not now for Ole. Complete knee jerkreactions.

I agree with this statement. Sacking Ole isn't out of the question, but it should not be the first thing we go ahead and do. I know people are very frustrated after a drubbing like that, but if the club is being ran by our shambolic board/owners then we need to keep a level head as fans. We can't get distracted by the bread and circus anymore, feck the transfers and managers being sacked. The leadership of this club has to show some culpable responsibility. They need to show that they want to move this club forward, not just try and put out fires.

Salus Populi Suprema Lex · Oct 4, 2020

The board never back a manager at the right time. Last season we got third - that's the time to push on; instead we have another mess of a transfer window. Then, when we're struggling we throw money at panic buys. There is no plan and no manager could succeed via this method. If we sack Ole, we'll be back having the same discussion in two years. We need change at the top, in the boardroom, but how do we get there?

passing-wind · Oct 4, 2020

LazyRed-Ninja said:
The thing is, what could Ole have done against the blunders of Maguire? That header back which lead to the 1-1 was the start of it all.

Narrated the importance of making defensive mistakes, organise the team better so that Shaw isn't having to defend near his centre half. Galvanise the players so they are motivated and focused. We've conceded 11 goals in the last three games. I fail to see how Solskjaer is not to be blamed given these circumstances.

Salus Populi Suprema Lex · Oct 4, 2020

VojjE said:
I agree with this statement. Sacking Ole isn't out of the question, but it should not be the first thing we go ahead and do. I know people are very frustrated after a drubbing like that, but if the club is being ran by our shambolic board/owners then we need to keep a level head as fans. We can't get distracted by the bread and circus anymore, feck the transfers and managers being sacked. The leadership of this club has to show some culpable responsibility. They need to show that they want to move this club forward, not just try and put out fires.

Precisely. Good post, this goes beyond the manager, it's a systemic problem.

InfiniteBoredom · Oct 4, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
Bayern already had very good players and they were clearly underperforming. They were league champions for many consecutive years!!

Ole showed he can get the team playing well and getting results. But after 3 PL games after the ass backwards preseason and not enough reinforcements.....he should get sacked?

I'm all for sacking managers when it's merited, but not now for Ole. Complete knee jerkreactions.

Playing well like the turd we got served for most of last season, before and after Bruno, and 66 pts tally?

The collective league besides the Scousers shat itself last season allowing us to get in on dismal form for a top 4 team. Any normal year we would be 6th/7th.

He’s been in charge for near two years now with about 150m net spend, and we are not seeing any meaningful change in the football we play nor the result. The executive side of the club have their fair share of the blame but any manager at any other elite club would have gotten the chop long before on those results.

This cult of the manager at Utd is insidious and it’s killing us. The collective celebration of top 3 finish last season was nauseating. How can we demand our players to be champions while fan base is satisfied with a top 4 finish? Real fans get a lot of flacks on here but their demanding attitude keeps the club on top.

Henrik Larsson · Oct 4, 2020

Another great thread by the best poster on the caf!

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

Brwned said:
It's not knee jerk when people were saying even during our good period last season that the underlying fundamentals weren't good enough. You can disagree with the assessment but it's conclusively wrong to say it's knee jerk, because it predated any of the incidents you're suggesting caused these knees to jerk.

And those underlying fundamentals are purely down to the manager? You sack Ole after 10 months?

The technical ability of the team had to improve. United's results and performances against other top 6/8 teams were good. Missing Pogba, Rashford, Martial for large periods of the year. Still giving yourself a chance to make a run at Top 4 and some silverware?

The manager can only work with what they have and Ole did well. Now he needs to kick on as does the club with better players in.

Players coming in and coming out isn't on the manager. It's on the others above him and we've seen this boom and bust already before with Jose...the rot is still at the top and it's glaring. Appointing a new manager tomorrow isn't going to fix it. Fergie isn't walking in and turning this around unless he gets the requisite time and quality players and settled environment....it's been a shit environment above the manager position for years now and it starts and ends with Woodward.

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

Siorac said:
He also showed that he can go through long periods of awful form with the team. When we're bad, we're really bad, but sometimes we go through some purple patches. It's all very unconvincing so far. One step forward, two steps back.

The team the beginning of last season for a few months were bad...that's what you get with unknown but talented players and a large hole at #10. United arent this bad but probably not as good as their long unbeaten streak towards the end of last season. Again, first full year under Ole and youre gonna have ups and downs.

RUCK4444 · Oct 4, 2020

Godfather said:
Bullshit. Look at any of our first three games. Our squad is good enough for a better manager to do way better in all three of them.

Use the same logic to appraise the manager over the course of last season and where we finished (3rd) instead of the first three games in a season with a shoddy pre-season.

It only works one way though when people have this agenda.

Godfather · Oct 4, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
Use the same logic to appraise the manager over the course of last season and where we finished (3rd) instead of the first three games in a season with a shoddy pre-season.

It only works one way though when people have this agenda.

Ole had more than enough sackable results even last season and I wasn't impressed by that third place at all. We lack the fundamentals. I don't see what his gameplan is at all. Don't see our football progressing either. He has to go as under him we will never win anything. With or without that shithouse of a board. And you can quote me on that

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Oct 4, 2020

Ole would have gone last Christmas at most big clubs

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

InfiniteBoredom said:
Playing well like the turd we got served for most of last season, before and after Bruno, and 66 pts tally?

The collective league besides the Scousers shat itself last season allowing us to get in on dismal form for a top 4 team. Any normal year we would be 6th/7th.

He’s been in charge for near two years now with about 150m net spend, and we are not seeing any meaningful change in the football we play nor the result. The executive side of the club have their fair share of the blame but any manager at any other elite club would have gotten the chop long before on those results.

This cult of the manager at Utd is insidious and it’s killing us. The collective celebration of top 3 finish last season was nauseating. How can we demand our players to be champions while fan base is satisfied with a top 4 finish? Real fans get a lot of flacks on here but their demanding attitude keeps the club on top.

Last year and this year still isn't normal. But that's where it's at. I'm not going into the points and position discussion because that you cannot change. But we all saw a much better united when everyone was fit and saw what they can do at near or optimal levels. That's on the manager and players.

Now after 3 PL matches and the abnormal, chaotic and bullshit off-season as far as mental and physical prep, plus lack of reinforcements....it's time to have zero context and sack the manager? How can you saw we aren't improving after 3 PL matches...that's not enough context all things considered.

Ole does have his faults and isn't the best manager in the league or most successful, etc. But again, the bigger picture is the club itself is ran like shit. That's on Woodward.

Consistency of the requisite players in and consistency of poor players out. Development of the good players and understanding how they can or should play. For example, the next manager after Ole, whenever that is, cannot be Allegri or Simone. The type of manager whose ideals are not of attacking or developing young players. Bring in good players who fit a way the CLUB want, not manager.

Bayern does that, Leicester has done that, Chelsea do that...they know what is required to compete and what is within their resources. But for the size, scope, and resources we all know or claim United have....why is this only on one man in the manager's seat after 3 PL matches after a chaotic, unsettling preseason when the needs of the club were completely clear?!?!

RUCK4444 · Oct 4, 2020

Godfather said:
Ole had more than enough sackable results even last season and I wasn't impressed by that third place at all. We lack the fundamentals. I don't see what his gameplan is at all. Don't see our football progressing either. He has to go as under him we will never win anything. With or without that shithouse of a board. And you can quote me on that

Who do you want to bring in then? We've played (in spells) better football than we've played under any of the previous managers since SAF, had longer unbeaten spells. We beat every team last season and finished as high as any manager would have with this squad (considering the two teams ahead of us and the standard they were both playing at the time.)

It's too easy to shout Ole is Shite whilst simultaneously avoiding any suggestion of a suitable replacement and ignoring the positive progress we've made with Ole (believe it or not we have.)

RUCK4444 · Oct 4, 2020

Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Ole would have gone last Christmas at most big clubs

Glad he bucked the trend then, wasn't sacked and went on to finish as high as any manager possibly could last season. Wouldn't you agree?

Where did Mourinho or flavour of the month Arteta finish last season? Let's also see where they finish this season.

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

Godfather said:
Ole had more than enough sackable results even last season and I wasn't impressed by that third place at all. We lack the fundamentals. I don't see what his gameplan is at all. Don't see our football progressing either. He has to go as under him we will never win anything. With or without that shithouse of a board. And you can quote me on that

Ole will go some day....but that's why you play 38 matches. First few months were poor, couldn't score 2 goals to get 3 points or hold out 1 nil...but then, shockingly you sign a quality player and your fortunates change. They spend time getting better and getting familiar. Every other team in the league had the same time off did they not? And United took advantage of it. It wasn't just luck. Took quality from manager and players.

The football can only progress with time and preparation, of which United didnt have this preseason and we will never know how the match today would have panned out or why if Martial didnt get sent off. We really, really don't. But I dont think United would have been hit for 6 and been all over the park today.

Godfather · Oct 4, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
Who do you want to bring in then? We've played (in spells) better football than we've played under any of the previous managers since SAF, had longer unbeaten spells. We beat every team last season and finished as high as any manager would have with this squad (considering the two teams ahead of us and the standard they were both playing at the time.)

It's too easy to shout Ole is Shite whilst simultaneously avoiding any suggestion of a suitable replacement and ignoring the positive progress we've made with Ole (believe it or not we have.)

Get Nagelsmann or Rose. Pretty simple.

RUCK4444 · Oct 4, 2020

Godfather said:
Get Nagelsmann or Rose. Pretty simple.

Yeah simple. We will hire them, go in a different direction again on recruitment, spend a shite tonne again, expect them to finish above Pep and Klopp, they won't so we spend more, finish in top four then stop spending, play poorly, sack them and so the cycle continues.

Just as simple as it was with LVG, then Mourinho.

Siorac · Oct 4, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
Who do you want to bring in then? We've played (in spells) better football than we've played under any of the previous managers since SAF, had longer unbeaten spells. We beat every team last season and finished as high as any manager would have with this squad (considering the two teams ahead of us and the standard they were both playing at the time.)

It's too easy to shout Ole is Shite whilst simultaneously avoiding any suggestion of a suitable replacement and ignoring the positive progress we've made with Ole (believe it or not we have.)

We had 18 wins so that's not even mathematically possible.

We didn't beat Arsenal, Liverpool, Southampton, Wolves (well, we did beat them in the FA Cup once), Everton, and West Ham.

InfiniteBoredom · Oct 4, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
Last year and this year still isn't normal. But that's where it's at. I'm not going into the points and position discussion because that you cannot change. But we all saw a much better united when everyone was fit and saw what they can do at near or optimal levels. That's on the manager and players.

Now after 3 PL matches and the abnormal, chaotic and bullshit off-season as far as mental and physical prep, plus lack of reinforcements....it's time to have zero context and sack the manager? How can you saw we aren't improving after 3 PL matches...that's not enough context all things considered.

Ole does have his faults and isn't the best manager in the league or most successful, etc. But again, the bigger picture is the club itself is ran like shit. That's on Woodward.

Consistency of the requisite players in and consistency of poor players out. Development of the good players and understanding how they can or should play. For example, the next manager after Ole, whenever that is, cannot be Allegri or Simone. The type of manager whose ideals are not of attacking or developing young players. Bring in good players who fit a way the CLUB want, not manager.

Bayern does that, Leicester has done that, Chelsea do that...they know what is required to compete and what is within their resources. But for the size, scope, and resources we all know or claim United have....why is this only on one man in the manager's seat after 3 PL matches after a chaotic, unsettling preseason when the needs of the club were completely clear?!?!

You keep banging on about 3 matches, but the fact is OGS hasn’t been in charge for just 3 matches, he’s been in charge for 20 months. In that time he’s achieved the second worst point tally in the league post Fergie, twice, without the quality football to fall back on. That’s big enough of a sample size to conclude that he’s not a good manager and we gain nothing from persisting with him when even the one saving grace for him last season being recruitment is proving to be calamitous. We have also seen this team under him failed over and over again in cup crunches and even league match, I voted out after the WH homedraw last season. For all the talk about mentality and togetherness, this team is still soft as shit when the chips are down and it’s down to the manager who has been with them for nigh on 2 years.

Bayern sacked a league winning manager because they saw the team regressing under him. We have to adopt a similar mentality if we want to move forward. Mediocrity should not be tolerated, managers and players are just employees, you either perform or make way for those who do, there’s no room for sentimental bull crap at the top level.

edcunited1878 · Oct 4, 2020

Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Ole would have gone last Christmas at most big clubs

Which is fine, but most big clubs wouldn't have planned to have Mata, Lingard, Perieira at #10...signed Dan James to play too many games at right forward rotating with a then 18 year old. Pinning their hopes on players like Martial at 9 and Rashford at left forward for their first full season and settled positions. 3 fit senior CBs. A paper thin central midfield.

Again...sack the manager. But poor planning and player ins and out by Woodward. Only after signing Bruno and players getting fit and playing in setlled roles under a settled manager did they begin to get results.

Who knew...time and quality make a difference. And the common thing pre Ole and now that runs parallel to time and quality....Ed Woodward and the club beneath him.

"So many managers have been sacked"...

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