Backing Harry Maguire in this tough time would be a true test of Ole

shamans

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Another Harry Maguire thread but this will be a positive one. Unlike other knee jerkers I do not believe his captaincy should be stripped or anything. Every player has dips. I have never seen Harry play as bad as this making basic errors and so I'm confident this is an aberration in otherwise solid career.

Harry Maguire is class and he will come good for us as captain. Somehow because Roy Keane (one of our best captains) was good at shouting people seem to think the shouting is what makes someone a good player to lead. Share all the stupid 30 second clips you want. Maguire will see this through!
 

elnorte

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shamans said:
Another Harry Maguire thread but this will be a positive one. Unlike other knee jerkers I do not believe his captaincy should be stripped or anything. Every player has dips. I have never seen Harry play as bad as this making basic errors and so I'm confident this is an aberration in otherwise solid career.

Harry Maguire is class and he will come good for us as captain. Somehow because Roy Keane (one of our best captains) was good at shouting people seem to think the shouting is what makes someone a good player to lead. Share all the stupid 30 second clips you want. Maguire will see this through!
Click to expand...
Come on. He certainly isn't 'class'. We know this already. Agree that he isn't anywhere near as bad as he is playing right now but winning a title with Maguire as one of your first choice centre halves seems highly remote.
 

spiriticon

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Harry Maguire is decent at best for Manchester United. I agree he is better than the last 3 games, but I've not seen anything about him in the last year to suggest he's got the ability or the fortitude to be an £80 million pound defender.
 

Mihai

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This thread won't stay positive for too long.
 

Idxomer

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He doesn't have any other choice except backing him.
 

El-Manos

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I’m still backing him. He has been very poor since the restart though.
 

#07

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The title of this thread is like something you would see on RAWK back in the good old days.

How is it a test of a manager to stand by a player? Sir Alex Ferguson kicked Roy Keane, probably his greatest captain, out of Old Trafford when he had outlived his usefulness. If Maguire cannot regain form he will be dropped either by Ole or, if worst comes to worst and Ole's removed, by the guy after him.
 

Stretender

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It's not about Maguire, it's about Manchester United. It would do Harry more damage if he kept being the talking point after every match because of his mistakes.

Best thing to do is take him out of the limelight and leave him on the training ground until things are settled.

At the moment our defence is playing like a bunch of drunk lads on a Sunday morning . Most of it is due to the poor coaching that Ole and his team are responsible for.

Manchester United do not have very good players to be passing the ball in the 6 yard box. Ole is deluded and must just teach these players basics. Just defend, and leave the fancy stuff to a Pep Guardiola team

I get why teams play from the back but if you are not good enough to play that way its pointless persisting with that.
 

Van Piorsing

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Ole needs to start coaching more and expecting even more from players.

When he f*cked up on the pitch Sir Alex was testing his mental strength by destroying him in the dressing room. How he reacted to that made him superb striker.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Why is assessing a player over time & coming to the conclusion he simply isn’t good enough classed as ‘knee-jerk’?

Attempting to boil his assessment down to these first 3 league games is nonsense; he was horrendous against Bournemouth & Southampton last season; oh yea he made that Spurs lad look like peak Robben too. . .

In the interests of the club I hope he comes through this but he’s OgS’s Fellaini signing.

It’s perfectly ok to assess this transfer without United-tints & see we were robbed. He’s far from a bad player but the clips you refer to aren’t 30 seconds they’re minutes long - he’s simply not class.
 

Rolaholic

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He already backed him by letting him retain the captaincy after being convicted over the summer. Not sure what more support the manager can show for an undeserving player.

Unless you're now arguing that he's earned an endless leash where he should get special treatment and never be dropped in a squad where damn near everyone has been pulled/bench at some point for various reasons? That sort of favoritism is one of the things that doomed Jose, blows me away that some want Ole to follow that route as well...
 

Varun

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It'll be a true test for feck all given our CB choices and how mental someone would have to be to change captain 4 games into the season. It's like saying your true test is to let things just be.
 

Sky1981

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shamans said:
Another Harry Maguire thread but this will be a positive one. Unlike other knee jerkers I do not believe his captaincy should be stripped or anything. Every player has dips. I have never seen Harry play as bad as this making basic errors and so I'm confident this is an aberration in otherwise solid career.

Harry Maguire is class and he will come good for us as captain. Somehow because Roy Keane (one of our best captains) was good at shouting people seem to think the shouting is what makes someone a good player to lead. Share all the stupid 30 second clips you want. Maguire will see this through!
Click to expand...
He's not class, he's an average player who got lucky we bought him, and Leicester got lucky we're stupid enough to spunk 80M on him.

Pound for pound , game for game Maguire is as average as any EPL midtable defender.

And he's no captain material on top of that.
 

Posh Red

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elnorte said:
Come on. He certainly isn't 'class'. We know this already. Agree that he isn't anywhere near as bad as he is playing right now but winning a title with Maguire as one of your first choice centre halves seems highly remote.
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Come on now. Plenty of worse defenders have won the league.
 

VP89

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He's fecked up with a few players in my opinion - giving Maguire the captaincy, oddly benching Romero in all semi cup finals, not playing VDB with an odd fixation on an unfit Pogba.
 

Dan600

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I think it’s difficult for Ole. But, I am not sure it is entirely a question of backing him/playing him through his troubles. It’s a make or break period for him and dropping him could be catastrophic long term, but playing him when he is clearly not right mentally could be just as bad.

But he’s got a really difficult balance to achieve, much like with Jesse’s troubles, Maguire is at a similar crossroads. He needs support, does he even need counselling after all that happened in Mykonos.

No one knows what he has been through but him, was he in the wrong or not. But it’s highly possible he is still suffering/traumatised by whatever happened, and that is affecting him on the pitch.

This is an extreme test of Ole’s man management skills, his biggest to date.

This coupled with Pogba’s abject performances since Having Covid has given him a mammoth task to save the season before it has even begun.
 

RedDevil@84

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shamans said:
Another Harry Maguire thread but this will be a positive one. Unlike other knee jerkers I do not believe his captaincy should be stripped or anything. Every player has dips. I have never seen Harry play as bad as this making basic errors and so I'm confident this is an aberration in otherwise solid career.

Harry Maguire is class and he will come good for us as captain. Somehow because Roy Keane (one of our best captains) was good at shouting people seem to think the shouting is what makes someone a good player to lead. Share all the stupid 30 second clips you want. Maguire will see this through!
Click to expand...
I half agree with your post. I don't think he should be shouted at, stripped off captaincy or humiliated in anyway.
But I certainly don't think he is some class defender going through a small rough patch. His price tag just makes it all worse that he is expected to be an elite defender. I don't think he is in that league. But certainly he is better than what we saw against Spurs.
 

Paolo Di Canio

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We should back him and encourage him as a fanbase, hes our captain and all this negative media will play a part in his form

Everyone wants us and him to fail, our own fanbase can at least play a part here
 

DoomSlayer

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I hope Solskjaer drops Maguire for good to show the game against Spurs was unacceptable. That's going to be my "Ole test".
 

dev1l

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Mihai said:
This thread won't stay positive for too long.
Click to expand...
True :) Anyway with some posters, as soon as you read their name, you don't bother read the message. Cause it s always negative :)
 

bsCallout

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He's nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be or his recent performances demonstrate but there are issues in this team and coaching that will leave him vulnerable.

It is a fact that he is exposed by the lack of quality either side of him. Shaw leaves him exposed as Shaw is often in no mans land. Telles is the solution.

The other CB simple isn't good enough. Imo, Mengi is the solution to that.

Our GK is weak and has no command of his box. He does not control the players in front of him like our greats of the past did. Henderson is the answer to this.

Finally, playing out from the back is an awful tactic, particularly for these players. As soon as we lose the ball we are on the back foot and out of position leaving big gaps that Maguire cannot make up.

We need a GK who can play it out to Rashford/Greenwood on the wings. Getting us instantly up the pitch. Again, Henderson is the answer to this.

Maguire can be good enough. He just isn't good enough to make up for all the other issues.
 

BR7

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bsCallout said:
He's nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be or his recent performances demonstrate but there are issues in this team and coaching that will leave him vulnerable.

It is a fact that he is exposed by the lack of quality either side of him. Shaw leaves him exposed as Shaw is often in no mans land. Telles is the solution.

The other CB simple isn't good enough. Imo, Mengi is the solution to that.

Our GK is weak and has no command of his box. He does not control the players in front of him like our greats of the past did. Henderson is the answer to this.

Finally, playing out from the back is an awful tactic, particularly for these players. As soon as we lose the ball we are on the back foot and out of position leaving big gaps that Maguire cannot make up.

We need a GK who can play it out to Martial/Greenwood on the wings. Getting us instantly up the pitch. Again, Henderson is the answer to this.

Maguire can be good enough. He just isn't good enough to make up for all the other issues.
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Good post
 

Valencia's Left Foot

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I'm backing him as well, played well for us last year. Not worth 80 mil, but not many players are. He made our back line better last year, but needs to get in gear though, not sure what's his problem right now.
 

lsd

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shamans said:
Another Harry Maguire thread but this will be a positive one. Unlike other knee jerkers I do not believe his captaincy should be stripped or anything. Every player has dips. I have never seen Harry play as bad as this making basic errors and so I'm confident this is an aberration in otherwise solid career.

Harry Maguire is class and he will come good for us as captain. Somehow because Roy Keane (one of our best captains) was good at shouting people seem to think the shouting is what makes someone a good player to lead. Share all the stupid 30 second clips you want. Maguire will see this through!
Click to expand...

Keane was not a great captain because he shouted at people . He was a great captain because he was a great footballer eho led by example and kept the rest of the team on their toes throughout the game .

Maguire has none of those qualities
 

He'sRaldo

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VP89 said:
He's fecked up with a few players in my opinion - giving Maguire the captaincy, oddly benching Romero in all semi cup finals, not playing VDB with an odd fixation on an unfit Pogba.
Click to expand...
I agree. I also remember him pushing Rashford last season when his back wasn't right, as well as rushing Pogba back for 90 minutes vs Rochdale. Not benching De Gea at key moments and not trusting Gomes over Lingard or Andreas.

And now as you say, not benching Pogba who is clearly struggling, and not using the depth we were all crying out for last season. Fred nowhere to be seen after a great last season, Donny coming on for 5 minute cameos, Scott underutilized...

Funny enough I think his man management has been quite subpar so far.
 

Bastian

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How many different narratives can we come up with on the Caf?

Does anyone seriously think Ole would strip the captaincy of a centre back he's lauded every chance he's got, played every PL game last season and most of the other matches, and paid a record 80m for?
 

frookydinho

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To be honest by playing and sticking with Maguire, its the easy way out for Ole. If he drops him from the first XI, makes it known that his form isn't good enough for Man Utd, that is his real test. It sets a standard for the dressing room that no one is undroppable and creates a reaction. But it won't happen unfortunately
 

Bebestation

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The thing for me is that Maguire isnt the only problem for the team.

Are we just going to blame the CB everytime they make a mistake?

How does a player get to the CB's so freely every game?

Is it that Matic is played in a right handed channel as a double pivot and not fully centrally to provide the defensive support in front of the CB?

Is it that Pogba is too easy to get past by in a double pivot? Is it that he likes to play so freely in such a defensive role that he ends up dribbling right in to the opposition and losing the ball?

Does Bruno Fernandes have to drop back more regularly because we consistently lose the ball in deeper positions in comparison to when Fred & Mctomminay played together as a flawed but defensively high energetic partnership? Does this effect his creative ability further up the pitch?

Do we even press as a team like before? I remember Martial was surprisingly pressing well at the front and Rashford & Greenwood together from outwide. All of that seems gone with Rashford and Greenwood playing deeper and wider than ever before. Do they even track back in such a position? Martial seems isolated up front rather than in a group of 3 with other forwards where he can interlink both defensively and attacking.

I'm not saying this as an excuse for our defenders like Lindelof, Maguire, Bailly, AWB and Shaw. They make considerable consistent mistakes now more than ever but can we just blame the defenders when our whole team is so loose?

Would a world class defender not make a couple mistakes in this defence when our whole team is struggling to show defensive capabilities or even play as a full functioning team?

Our formation was a 4231 in the first half of last season but we were positioned more like at times a 433 with Rashford & Greenwood in proper inverted forward position doing pressing instead of playing out wide and trying to be creative. We had Our CM's pressing from deep as much as they were dropping back to defend when necessary due to their energy. We seem like a proper static 4231 one now with hardly any interlinking ability both defensively and attacking.

The formation just sucks because it places players in positions they are not good enough at - leaving the defenders under more pressure than ever before.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Bastian said:
How many different narratives can we come up with on the Caf?

Does anyone seriously think Ole would strip the captaincy of a centre back he's lauded every chance he's got, played every PL game last season and most of the other matches, and paid a record 80m for?
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And when he has Eric Bailly to replace him.
 

Sandikan

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People seem to forget most of the squad look totally off the pace at the moment due to the weird scenario around the extended season and dodgy pre season.

Add in that Maguire had all that arrest nonsense on top, and it's surely not amazing he is having a hard time.

The knee jerk saying he's been appalling the whole time is dreadful. Very poor the last game or two but the defence as a unit have been like that themselves.
 

Bebestation

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Sandikan said:
People seem to forget most of the squad look totally off the pace at the moment due to the weird scenario around the extended season and dodgy pre season.

Add in that Maguire had all that arrest nonsense on top, and it's surely not amazing he is having a hard time.

The knee jerk saying he's been appalling the whole time is dreadful. Very poor the last game or two but the defence as a unit have been like that themselves.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I dont think this random world class defender we buy is going to make much of a difference because the team as a whole cant defend. The opposition get past our attack and midfielders like it's nonexistent. Our defence then becomes reactive to the attack than being a defensive unit together supported by the rest of the team.

My post above says what I think.
 

He'sRaldo

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Bebestation said:
The thing for me is that Maguire isnt the only problem for the team.

Are we just going to blame the CB everytime they make a mistake?

How does a player get to the CB's so freely every game?

Is it that Matic is played in a right handed channel as a double pivot and not fully centrally to provide the defensive support in front of the CB?

Is it that Pogba is too easy to get past by in a double pivot? Is it that he likes to play so freely in such a defensive role that he ends up dribbling right in to the opposition and losing the ball?

Does Bruno Fernandes have to drop back more regularly because we consistently lose the ball in deeper positions in comparison to when Fred & Mctomminay played together as a flawed but defensively high energetic partnership? Does this effect his creative ability further up the pitch?

Do we even press as a team like before? I remember Martial was surprisingly pressing well at the front and Rashford & Greenwood together from outwide. All of that seems gone with Rashford and Greenwood playing deeper and wider than ever before. Do they even track back in such a position? Martial seems isolated up front rather than in a group of 3 with other forwards where he can interlink both defensively and attacking.

I'm not saying this as an excuse for our defenders like Lindelof, Maguire, Bailly, AWB and Shaw. They make considerable consistent mistakes now more than ever but can we just blame the defenders when our whole team is so loose?

Would a world class defender not make a couple mistakes in this defence when our whole team is struggling to show defensive capabilities or even play as a full functioning team?

Our formation was a 4231 in the first half of last season but we were positioned more like at times a 433 with Rashford & Greenwood in proper inverted forward position doing pressing instead of playing out wide and trying to be creative. We had Our CM's pressing from deep as much as they were dropping back to defend when necessary due to their energy. We seem like a proper static 4231 one now with hardly any interlinking ability both defensively and attacking.

The formation just sucks because it places players in positions they are not good enough at - leaving the defenders under more pressure than ever before.
Click to expand...
Great post.
 

Bebestation

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He'sRaldo said:
Great post.
Click to expand...

Just as an example. Look at harry kanes goal from Bailly's passing mistake.

Is it Bailly's fault we let that goal in? Yes. However it's not his own fault in my view.

Matic is playing out wide on the right of a double pivot and the guy has to run back to a central position to get the ball off Bailly. Matic isnt fast enough to make it tothe central position to receive the ball when playing wider in a double pivot.

What would happen if Matic was playing in the most central position as a cover for the CB? The guy would be positioned perfectly to receive the ball when our defenders make a pass under pressure. That's what CDM that cover our CB'S do.

Instead we have our midfielders wide in a double pivot playing reactively than proactively.
 

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lsd said:
Keane was not a great captain because he shouted at people . He was a great captain because he was a great footballer eho led by example and kept the rest of the team on their toes throughout the game .

Maguire has none of those qualities
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Keane was great captain because he knew what needed to be done, whether that was shouting, or fighting or just go and do the job by himself, it was combination of many things. Sometimes some player or referees need a shake down, Maguire is far from what is needed in many of those departments.
 
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