This is LONG overdue, and should have come from the Premier League ages ago. Just refine a few of these points and we have a promising structure for the future of the game.
United and Liverpool driving "Project Big Picture" - Football’s biggest shake-up in a generation
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
If it is fair, united should get 50'% of Tv rights, the rest of the league gets the rest.
I honestly can’t believe there are fans who are for this. It has nothing to do with helping the common fan or lower league clubs and everything to do with bolstering the pockets of the wealthy, as usual.
It is not fair united get as much TV rights money as Man shitty, Chelski and spuds. Gigantic club like united should get the highest portion of the revenues.
the only fans that want this are those who think the biggest clubs be maximising every last penny of revenue available and those who are Utd fans just want to see us winning the league year in year out having blown away the competition through spending power.
Because you were lucky enough to get Ferguson as manager and hit a winning streak as the premier league kicked off? It could have been Liverpool, it could have been Arsenal or someone else. The product (the league) drove your club to new heights. You are a gigantic global brand in no small part because of the premier league as a whole, don't forget that.
This "Big Six" is nonsense anyway, it's a recent Sky Sport construction. Leicester have won more honours than Spurs in the last 30 years. Spurs went 15 years in the 90's and 2000's within finishing above 7th. Chelsea did nothing for about 30 years until the late 90's. Man City... well.
It never used to be like this, teams had ups and downs, you included. It's just another sickening cash grab to try and make the top of the league a closed shop.
Well, what was stopping other clubs to do that? I don't see any logic to your claim that now, all of a sudden, the other PL clubs will begin loaning out the maximum number of players. The opportunity was there for them to do so for many years but they didn't take it.
I haven't seen any proposed binding document (like a contract) but I would imagine that the 25% revenue distribution is a founding principle and cannot be changed without revoking the whole agreement, so in essence what you're implying won't be possible.
As you rightly pointed out yourself, United playing 12 games in the US or Asia benefitted United and their local partners (and fans, as a byproduct of commercial decisions). Now apply the same for all other PL clubs and you will get why the pre-season tournaments are preferred to the League Cup.
I am neither condemning nor approving this proposed set of changes. Just trying to make sense of it and applying my own logic to understand the rationale.
Neither do I but who cares about you or me? Football clubs are businesses and those in the PL are ran with the sole purpose of creating more value for their shareholders/owners.
The new revenue distribution scheme will bring a lot more money to L1/L2 teams than any number of games they play in the League Cup. Especially if those clubs do not survive to play next season's Cup (currently a lot of clubs are on the brink of bankruptcy and that explains the timing of this proposal) or if future seasons are played behind closed doors again.
I don't know how many football fans care about the winner of the Etihad Cup but since that tournament exists, I am pretty certain it makes a lot of commercial sense. And since clubs are ran as businesses, i.e. to make profits and create value for their shareholders/owners, that's all that matters.
I agree, it has already backfired. We are yet to see to what extent. I assume this is just a step in the bargaining process and there will be a middleground until the end of the year, maybe sooner.
Also, if you ask the clubs further down the EFL, "the end of the PL" is not necessarily a bad thing, just saying...
The League Cup, however, is under the EFL and FA banner, which means that the distribution of revenues is not directly controlled by the same agents as the pre-season summer tournaments. Why share a bigger percentage of the revenues when you can avoid it?
The League Cup, however, is under the EFL and FA banner, which means that the distribution of revenues is not directly controlled by the same agents as the pre-season summer tournaments. Why share a bigger percentage of the revenues when you can avoid it?
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yes and if it was all under the one banner that wouldn't be a problem, why would they share a percentage of they current deal with the lower league clubs ? its about power and money, they no teams are struggling and want to come out looking like saints, but in reality it will be like selling your soul to the devil, we don't want the glazers here, can you imagine what it will be like if there one of the major players in how the league is run ?
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yes and if it was all under the one banner that wouldn't be a problem, why would they share a percentage of they current deal with the lower league clubs ? its about power and money, they no teams are struggling and want to come out looking like saints, but in reality it will be like selling your soul to the devil, we don't want the glazers here, can you imagine what it will be like if there one of the major players in how the league is run ?
I would like it if the League Cup had an under 23 rule and you're allowed three over 23 players in the match day squad excluding goalkeeper. Removing extra time and going straight to penalties was a good move for the competition.
I don't understand the "It's a pointless competition" comments. Watering down the number of chances your team has of winning a trophy is just stupid.
If it upsets you that much then just don't bother watching those matches perhaps and leave the rest of us to enjoy it.
I don't understand the "It's a pointless competition" comments. Watering down the number of chances your team has of winning a trophy is just stupid.
If it upsets you that much then just don't bother watching those matches perhaps and leave the rest of us to enjoy it.
I feel my interest will die if this goes through. It is just another way to ruin the sport.
I would probably still watch, but feel terrible for Glaziers having sucess in ruin us and still make money.
I would probably still watch, but feel terrible for Glaziers having sucess in ruin us and still make money.
Rooney and Ronaldo destroying Wigan to begin the most successful period in United's history.
Rooney scoring a last minute winner against City to ensure Tevez and City dont get a trophy after winning the oil lottery.
These were league cup moments that were absolutely amazing to watch.
Would be a shame to lose another competition,
what is wrong with some of you people.
Most of these changes are shit.
Rooney scoring a last minute winner against City to ensure Tevez and City dont get a trophy after winning the oil lottery.
These were league cup moments that were absolutely amazing to watch.
Would be a shame to lose another competition,
what is wrong with some of you people.
Most of these changes are shit.
Are those hugely against this also in favour of FFP? The whole basis of the argument for fair distribution of the TV deal is to keep the league competitive and stop clubs such as United becoming too dominant yet many also think state/owner backed clubs should be able to spend whatever they wish. You can’t have it both ways. It’s inevitable that United and Liverpool are going to look at the inadequacies of FFP in keeping state clubs in check and think there’s a hypocrisy in that and they not being allowed a bigger slice of the broadcasting rights which they could earn far more negotiating in isolation. Chelsea posted a 90m loss last year and spent over 200m this summer during a global pandemic when crowd revenues have disappeared. How exactly is that equitable? If FFP was effective you wouldn’t have this clear divide between the traditional big clubs and the rest of the league which I feel is only going to grow. There’s going to be a big push for clubs to negotiate their own tv/streaming deals in the future which would ultimately be bad for the league.
Ta, and ill argue the cause till the cow comes home....
It just wasn't something that was done, I mean come on, why else would it be thrown in there if not to solely benefit the big clubs financially? People have seen what Chelsea have done over the last few years and it's clear this added rule is an attempt to copy that formula.
I don' t know if you're a Man United fan but if you are, we above else should know that if the Glazer family are putting something like this forward, that the end game and goal will be more money in their pockets, no Manchester United fan on this planet is going to benefit from the increased finances. Be assured, the goalposts will change, hence why they want voting power to shift. How much more fecking money do we want these parasites to take from the club, what do you think is the end result if this goes ahead? More money on United transfers? wrong, in the Glazer family trust fund. Hell even if they spent it you can almost certainly count on them spending it very badly.
You cannot apply the same for all other Premier League clubs because there is zero benefit of the likes of Burnley, Palace and West Ham going on 12 game pre season tours in America and Asia. There is no financial incentive for them because there is no audience in those places for those clubs. Honestly, if Palace played Burnley in New York tomorrow, how many people do you think would turn up?
It is also a very stupid idea for football players to be flying around to countless countries in such a short period of time playing a dozen friendlies in such high temperatures weeks before a new season starts.
If you look at who is pushing this and read between the lines it is very obvious the rational behind it, you cannot allow every footballing decision made in this country to be made by essentially a handful of foreign Premier League chairmen. It is very very dangerous.
The right thing to do would be to try and find a solution without trying to bring a dramatic change to the structure, the rich PL clubs shouldn't be trying to bribe or trick those struggling into these shady terms. PL clubs spent a billion on transfers this summer, the majority of that spent by a select number of clubs. We're in a climate where it is so important that people do not act in a selfish manner but I guess it's stupid to expect anything different from people like the Glazer family.
I'll tell you how many, zero. I'm not against pre season tours, I think it's only fair that once a year worldwide supporters get to see PL clubs but it should never come at the expense of league and cup games. It is English football, not English football played in American or other. This insistence on taking the PL abroad is tiresome, you saw it with the 39th game rubbish and now this.
Championship clubs want to take this on but they're looking at the short term benefits. This deal could lessen the appeal of the prem in 10 years which could lead to less money from sponsorships which will mean less money lower down the pyramid. If the European league gets expanded like planned then that will be where the money is at.
The premier would only have 18 so 2 would drop from league 2 as it's called at the moment
I'm close to it
It's not about football for a long time and now they aren't even trying to hide it.
I'm done for the most part. Cant even be bothered trying to regain my Mojo when it comes to Football.
And that's the most important part for the greedy bastards. The rest is all window dressing.
Yeah it is not fun to see what football has become. I rarely feel totally up for it anymore.
Not even feeling nervous for cup or big games.
If there is a super league next then I am out I think. It is like your girl cheating on you with your worst enemy when you are forced to watch or something like that.
What is the point in football if the same team wins it every year.
Football shouldn't be won the team with the most fans, it should be won by the team with the best players.
Give everyone in the League the same transfer budget I say
Yep. It's sinister.
You worry that teams will vote it in due to extra money coming their way.
It's pure cynicism dropping this in now with the virus disaster.
But imagine a world where the top 6 can out vote everyone else. Very dangerous.
As would clubs selling their own tv deals.
No lets not go that far
Does anyone else find this one really strange
This is obviously some sort of Premier League International tournament... which we all know they want.
But why every five years?
- Requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament
This is obviously some sort of Premier League International tournament... which we all know they want.
But why every five years?
I think there's enough of a carrot out there to be taken. Although like you say it's really about the big 6 maintaining their control. The voting parameters they have suggested are a joke. I'm not in favour of the Premier league reducing to 18 teams. I'm interested to know what they would do with the extra time (probably more lucrative friendlies around the world or more champions league games).
I really don't understand how is that any different and how not being able to loan players will solve anything. Clubs will find other ways to hover talent. Like the Pozzo family having a circle of clubs. Or the City Group of clubs.
Yes, of course, the end goal here is more money. That's plain and simple but what everybody needs to understand is that EVERY decision is made with more money in mind. Don't be naive. Nobody cares about anything else. It's just that sometimes, for some things, incentives align and while owners get more money, fans get what they want (usually, spectacle).
So that's why smaller clubs have begun having those pre-season Asia/US/Australia tours more and more in recent years? And fans turn up for both teams playing, not for one only. That's why those tournaments involve the big clubs from other European leagues. You don't need to argue with me on this. Facts and history prove my point. The off-season tournaments are happening more and more. If you think that's because they aren't making the participants money, I can't really say anything.
The rationale is to make the owners/shareholders make more money. Simple as that. Fans are both product and customers. But your logic of matchgoing fans and 'traditional and conservative' fans do not have any say in this, at least from a commercial perspective, I'm afraid. The global fans outweigh the local fans many times to one.
That sounds idealistic to the point of naive. I think this will not be the final solution but you can be sure that there will be increased power for the big clubs because they control the money right now. And the smaller clubs need money to survive the immediate danger or bankruptcy.
Dude, if you say 'zero' that doesn't make it true. You know that Arsenal organize the Emirates cup for many years now, same as Bayern's Audi Cup. Do you think that is done out of vanity?
Random musings.
Most league's are already like this. It doesn't take Albert Einstein to predict the winners of the Italian league, Scottish league, German league or the Portuguese league.
The NFL changes every year with it's structure.
Break it down between World Cups and Euro championships. Players would be playing all year every year
Exactly. The Glazers will never leave if they get this much power. I oppose this whole thing simply because I am against an American takeover of English football. Before you know it every stadium in the premiership will be full of people waving stupid plastic flags and drinking Budweiser.
Also, I know it’s nice to be one of the “big six”, but does this deal not cement that in to history, and forever block out every other club? This whole thing stinks. No team should have more power than another.
Also can you imagine the Glazers telling someone they cant buy a football club. Absolutely mental that
It's a naked power grab disguised as altruism coming at a time when a lot of EFL clubs pretty much have no choice but to back this
There are good changes in there(18 team PL, abolition of League Cup, extra money to the lower leagues, money for the women's game), but the price they're demanding is basically all the power going to the top 6, who will then get to decide how to run the PL however they want. Including taking all that stuff away, potentially. Or changing the terms of the collective bargaining...
Having said all that, well...the top 6 do have power already, and only the unwillingness to literally kill the rest of english football is staying their hand right now...
There are good changes in there(18 team PL, abolition of League Cup, extra money to the lower leagues, money for the women's game), but the price they're demanding is basically all the power going to the top 6, who will then get to decide how to run the PL however they want. Including taking all that stuff away, potentially. Or changing the terms of the collective bargaining...
Having said all that, well...the top 6 do have power already, and only the unwillingness to literally kill the rest of english football is staying their hand right now...
Why not?
What are the biggest team sporting events in the world?
1. World Cup. Money buys you better facilities and coaches to train players, but you can't buy players. (well only a little)
2. Olympics. Money buys you better facilities and coaches to train players, but you can't buy players. (well only a little)
3. NFL. Closed shop where players are distributed in a draft model.
4. UEFA Champions League. The first in our list where players are bought and sold through vast swathes of money. However, its a fairly equal competition amongst the big boys, which each of Europes big countries having one or two teams to funnel their leagues resources through.
5. I should probably put something crickety next, but I don't really know what is *the* cricket competition that everyone wants to win. Is it the World Cup? The IPL? What is the one competition every young cricketer wants to win? Dunno.
6. NBA. Similar to NFL.
Sport doesn't need money like this to be exciting. Give everyone in the Premier League the same budget.
I mean they are professional footballers. I work all year every year too
If you want this sort of equal playing field stuff, maybe watch American sports instead. Where johnny come latelys can just step in with those who have done their time.
Nonsense, United worked hard to be popular and famous, the fans watching the games and pouring billions into the leagues is because of united. Nobody cares about Leiciester or Westham outside England. Give everyone what their fans pay. I dont want to give my money to fecking Brighton.
Some of the proposals seem interesting others like scrapping the league cup I don’t agree with but I understand where it’s coming from.
But why scrap the Charity Shield too that makes no sense. It’s one game between two teams and has been the traditional season opener for over a century. I can only assume if they succeeded in getting it scrapped a few short years later they would propose a new English Super Cup. No doubt played in a different country around the world each year to generate money.
But why scrap the Charity Shield too that makes no sense. It’s one game between two teams and has been the traditional season opener for over a century. I can only assume if they succeeded in getting it scrapped a few short years later they would propose a new English Super Cup. No doubt played in a different country around the world each year to generate money.
Great points, well made. Tragically, MUFC has grown so big that it’s now controlled by owners and fans who have no ties to Manchester. We really are being driven towards an NFL way of life.
I'd genuinely rather my club go bust than this disgusting BS go through.
1000%, the reaction on here is not bad but the crazy defending of it on RAWK is kinda disgusting (albeit there are many people even calling it out there)
The problem is letting the league become La Liga etc.. kills the product, the PL and thereby United sell themselves on the league being more open and competitive. Closing the shop eliminates the competitive nature and England is arguably the last one left. A league that United win every season, with Arsenal 2nd and Liverpool 3rd is pretty much any other top division in European football.
The funny thing is, you are wrong on two levels.
The English League gets investment from abroad because it's possible for this to happen.
People care about Leicester because it's possible for this to happen.