Is football the only sport where cheating is encouraged?

Eli Zee

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I think players need to simply "man up."
If it's a foul, it's a foul. You don't need to simulate Injury or pain to show the ref you're fouled. It's honestly pathetic seeing grown men crying and rolling around "in pain" only to be running like it's nothing 1 minute after the foul is given.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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I'm a rugby fan so I don't know how to take that. :)

I don't know a single Rugby fan that cares about the popularity of Rugby or Football, funnily enough you went with something that is quite distasteful about football fans, the "my club is the biggest" or "my sport is the biggest" rhetoric. Most rugby fans I know like other sports, many like to play Touch Rugby which isn't physical and there is more disagreements between League and Union fans.
The majority of rugby fans I have met always talk about football like its lawn bowls, solely because the players dive or play act. I watch rugby but find a lot of rugby fans have a weird superiority complex.

No harm, no foul.
 

Red_Aaron

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Football is perhaps ultimately a game of deceit

From the good elements such as feints, dummies, stepovers, dinked finishes, no look passes, panenka penalties, back heels etc etc. These acts are beautiful and skillful but all are ultimately designed to fool your opponent in order to gain that slight advantage required to score.

You then have the dark arts that the OP refers too, theres no need to list these again but I do wonder if in some part the culture that encourages the 'positive' acts above doesn't also naturally lend itself to the creation of the negative acts too.

I hate it as much as the next man but I do wonder if it is something of a natural progression for the sport the higher the stakes get. What I am sure of however is that there's no going back now. Those days are over
 
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Football is perhaps ultimately a game of deceit

From the good elements such as feints, dummies, stepovers, dinked finishes, no look passes, panenka penalties, back heels etc etc. These acts are beautiful and skillful but all are ultimately designed to fool your opponent in order to gain that slight advantage required to score.

You then have the dark arts that the OP refers too, theres no need to list these again but I do wonder if in some part the culture that encourages the 'positive' acts above doesn't also naturally lend itself to the creation of the negative acts too.

I hate it as much as the next man but I do wonder if it is something of a natural progression for the sport the higher the stakes get. What I am sure of however is that there's no going back now. Those days are over
you’ve raised an interesting question here and perhaps one for the spurs fans.

are they proud of Lamela and what he did to gain an advantage? Are they thinking, well done lad, you’ve done well there to exploit the situation? No judgement.

personally I’d be not be happy if a Man Utd player did it.
 

1966

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Systemically encouraged by every aspect of the sporting apparatus? Maybe. Even if it's just a matter of degree, football is surely the worst.

In other analogous sports, the culture of cheating isn't as deep or entrenched (e.g. rugby), the refereeing is harsher and more transparent (e.g. rugby), and the fan demand for cheating is lower (e.g. rugby again). I could've used many other examples but of the close analogues, I'm most familiar with rugby.

Any sport that can drive its fans to want its players to cheat in the most egregious possible ways is probably not very healthy. Hence football.
 

1966

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The majority of rugby fans I have met always talk about football like its lawn bowls, solely because the players dive or play act. I watch rugby but find a lot of rugby fans have a weird superiority complex.

No harm, no foul.
There is also this phenomenon that I've observed whereby the prestige of being perceived as better behaved than those in other sports drives rugby fans to oppose cheating in the game more than they probably otherwise would. It's hard to believe that there's anything inherently different about a game in which bulky men give each other concussions that would make it tend further towards fairness than other sports.

But it is a virtuous cycle: rugby has a clean image -> fans enjoy the clean image -> fans promote fair play and criticise cheating in line with clean image -> image is bolstered further. If you were to start a professional sport today, you could learn a hell of a lot from rugby: implement strict, transparent refereeing and promote fair play among fans and players as a source of pride to encourage self-policing to a degree.

The cat's out of the bag for football now, though, and has been for ages. An individual nation could attempt to clean up the game given enough time but its hyperglobalisation would render their efforts moot. It's perhaps a life lesson in how quickly, easily and irreparably the dam breaks when you allow a little too much seemingly innocuous pressure to build up.
 

Theonas

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I think one factor that separates football from other sports including rugby is how high the stakes are. Defeat at the highest level of football comes with significantly more pressure than any other sport because of the size of the following and the amount of money involved. It is in every walk of life really, the more money involved, the more corruption. This can be either because winning is even more sought after or because fear of losing is bigger. American sports come to mind a bit and I think in terms of generating that cult following of football's scale, it is the closest but I don't really follow any American sports so not much idea on how cheating works there.
 

Untd55

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It is definitely not the only place cheating happens, and it is also not the only place where the punishment is not enough or not even carried out.


I mean what happens above is far worse than anything in football but somehow he wasn't banned for life. To be honest, he probably should have gone to jail for that.

The thing with football is that referees are, for some reason, too scared to book divers. It made more sense when there was no VAR, but, now it exists, there is no reason a diver should not be booked. If there is no punishment, or too little, it will never actually be dealt. To be honest, it is probably too late now.

A lot of people don't like it, but for some reason, the associations do nothing about it or deal with it far too lightly. If they came down hard, diving would be a thing of the past, but now it has become accepted as a part of the game, even by commentators and pundits.
 

1966

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I mean what happens above is far worse than anything in football but somehow he wasn't banned for life. To be honest, he probably should have gone to jail for that.
Sports celebrities can kill people in drink driving accidents and get away with tax evasion that would put a normal person in prison. I'm sure there's a ton of stuff that gets media-managed away so that we never even hear about it. It's trite but true that rich and famous people can pretty much do what they want.
 

DixieDean

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Pro wrestling. Managers sometimes literally getting involved with the action. That sport really needs VAR.
 

Davìd Moyéz

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Rugby revolves around trying to gain penalties from the opposition often with a lot of underhanded tactics and conning. Nobody seems to hold it against each other and I think it's a respected and enjoyable part of the game. If you're caught you're punished, if you're not, well done, clever work.

Nothing more annoying than the person who tweets with accusations of diving every time someone goes down under contact. What do you think he should've done? Done his very best to stay on his feet, not won a penalty and let it roll out for a goal kick?
 

JPRouve

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There is also this phenomenon that I've observed whereby the prestige of being perceived as better behaved than those in other sports drives rugby fans to oppose cheating in the game more than they probably otherwise would. It's hard to believe that there's anything inherently different about a game in which bulky men give each other concussions that would make it tend further towards fairness than other sports.

But it is a virtuous cycle: rugby has a clean image -> fans enjoy the clean image -> fans promote fair play and criticise cheating in line with clean image -> image is bolstered further. If you were to start a professional sport today, you could learn a hell of a lot from rugby: implement strict, transparent refereeing and promote fair play among fans and players as a source of pride to encourage self-policing to a degree.

The cat's out of the bag for football now, though, and has been for ages. An individual nation could attempt to clean up the game given enough time but its hyperglobalisation would render their efforts moot. It's perhaps a life lesson in how quickly, easily and irreparably the dam breaks when you allow a little too much seemingly innocuous pressure to build up.
This part can only come from an outsider, in Rugby cheating is encouraged, it's known as gamesmanship and showing no fairplay on the field is encouraged, roughing up the opposition in a way that won't see you penalize is also encouraged, what is not encouraged is to hold grudges. When the game is over you shake hands, accept the loss and try to be better next time, often there is a reception with both teams in the clubhouse that's the idea of fair play in Rugby.

There is a say in Rugby, Rugby union is a thug's game played by gentlemen.
 

fps

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In this video, you first see something that used to be known, the fake blood substitution. In the second incident, you can see Huget clearly being shot by a sniper in the stands, the third is funny the prop slaps the ball before the scrum half can introduce it. Rugby is a game of cheats and personally I love it.
Cheating in rugby is way more sophisticated. Don’t tell me the front rows in rugby don’t try to cheat constantly at scrum time!
 

JPRouve

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Cheating in rugby is way more sophisticated. Don’t tell me the front rows in rugby don’t try to cheat constantly at scrum time!
I'm not sure why you tell me that, I totally agree and I won't go into detail but it involves fingers in the nose, hears or eyes, punching the opponents. And there is the kind of incident that I mentioned in the post that you quoted, it was during a scrum.
 

Teja

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There's two kinds here: Outright simulation like penalty box dives, rolling around on the floor when someone's arm barely grazes their face like Lamela last week etc. and I think it's fair to compare these to other sports and call out Football as being worse.

The other, more insidious play that people complain about more (atleast in the US) is the typical Spanish game of trying to exaggerate attempted tackles in order to buy FKs and keep posession. I don't really think it's fair to compare Rugby / NBA / NFL tackles to football tackles because tackles in these sports don't generally involve one player's feet getting tangled up with another player's feet while both are running at full speed. I think this class of tackles is what gives football a bad rap but it's more complicated than just saying players are cheaters.
 

alexthelion

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Yes calling him a cheat is taking focus away from the real issue which is Martial's behavior in this case. Football is at the very apex of competitive sport and players will take advantage if they see an opening.

Martial is a professional footballer and has to take the interests of Man Utd into account (his employers) while reacting to an act of aggression on a football pitch. If going down in those circumstances is the socially accepted norm then he should do that instead of taking matters into his own hands. Bringing your A game on the pitch doesn't just involve playing your best football but also involves brining the right attitude and motivation. To Martial, getting even on the pitch was more important than the result of the game and the impact on his fellow team members.

The problem with this thread is that it says football encourages cheating which isn't true in my opinion as there have been several instances where cheaters have been punished and then have been refused legitimate claims due to their reputation. However, there are certain rules and scenarios in football that indirectly incentivize cheating - in this case getting opposition players sent off.

Edit: Just wanted to add that calling anybody a "cheat" is calling him names i.e., labelling him. If that's the case then everyone is a cheat including you, me, and all others on the forum. All of us have gamed the system at least once in our lives to gain an unfair advantage. Lamela cheated in that particular instance which is the fact. He is a "cheat" is a gross generalization as you don't know him personally.
States this is the problem with the thread, then posts exactly that by downplaying cheating saying it's not the real peoblem.
 

Mindhunter

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States this is the problem with the thread, then posts exactly that by downplaying cheating saying it's not the real peoblem.
Not sure what you mean. Can you be more specific about the contradiction you are trying to point out in my post?
 

1966

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This part can only come from an outsider, in Rugby cheating is encouraged, it's known as gamesmanship and showing no fairplay on the field is encouraged, roughing up the opposition in a way that won't see you penalize is also encouraged, what is not encouraged is to hold grudges. When the game is over you shake hands, accept the loss and try to be better next time, often there is a reception with both teams in the clubhouse that's the idea of fair play in Rugby.

There is a say in Rugby, Rugby union is a thug's game played by gentlemen.
Fair enough. Although I watch some rugby, I'm not actively involved in any community or social aspect of it, so all I can say is that my limited experience of the fans includes a lot more strong, universal condemnation of cheating than I typically see in football. It's enough to lead me to believe that there are a lot of rugby fans that are completely and unambiguously opposed to unfair play, and would rather not see it even to their own team's advantage.

But maybe I've been misled and my sample was unrepresentative. I'm open to at least the possibility of that being the case. Bear in mind that I predominantly watch international rugby, which may have a mediating effect on my experience of the fans. Nonetheless, regardless of whether they're being hypocritical or delusional or neither, I'm absolutely convinced that the phenomenon of pride in the alleged purity of the sport is a real thing.
 

fps

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I'm not sure why you tell me that, I totally agree and I won't go into detail but it involves fingers in the nose, hears or eyes, punching the opponents. And there is the kind of incident that I mentioned in the post that you quoted, it was during a scrum.
It’s not really to you, is it, it’s adding support for a view to the thread.
 

calodo2003

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Baseball is a sport where cheating has been somewhat encouraged in the past, especially pitchers. It is tacitly accepted nowadays, but those caught can get punished.
 

JPRouve

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Baseball is a sport where cheating has been somewhat encouraged in the past, especially pitchers. It is tacitly accepted nowadays, but those caught can get punished.
I'm not sure if I agree with the pitchers part, now catchers "framing" is in my opinion a different story because it's appreciated and is essentially actively deceiving the home plate umpire.
 

calodo2003

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I'm not sure if I agree with the pitchers part, now catchers "framing" is in my opinion a different story because it's appreciated and is essentially actively deceiving the home plate umpire.
Doctoring balls by pitchers was condoned a while back, nothing really recent unless you consider corked bats. Many clubs looked the other way internally.

No problems personally with framing.
 

JPRouve

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Doctoring balls by pitchers was condoned a while back, nothing really recent unless you consider corked bats. Many clubs looked the other way internally.

No problems personally with framing.
But the distinction that you made is my point. Cheating internally is a different story, it's part of every sports here the question is about how it's perceived from the outside and in baseball doctoring the ball wasn't accepted from the outside or considered like gamesmanship. On the other hand framing is cheating, encouraged and accepted from the outside, if the umpire doesn't spot it, it's his problem no one will go to a catcher and tell him to not deceive the umpire.
 

calodo2003

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But the distinction that you made is my point. Cheating internally is a different story, it's part of every sports here the question is about how it's perceived from the outside and in baseball doctoring the ball wasn't accepted from the outside or considered like gamesmanship. On the other hand framing is cheating, encouraged and accepted from the outside, if the umpire doesn't spot it, it's his problem no one will go to a catcher and tell him to not deceive the umpire.
I get what you are saying. Interpreted the OP differently.