Our second goal vs Newcastle

SteveW

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This was just an innovative counter-attack. We are good at those. What we are poor at is making similar innovative passes and movements to break down parked buses.
To be fair we've pretty much smashed most buses parked in front of us since February.
 

SteveW

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Watch the 3rd goal. 22 passes over 50s before AWB scores. 16 of those 22 passes were two touches or less. If that's not a build up play, nothing else is!!!
Exactly. We also had a lovely worked goal in the first half disallowed.

I struggle to understand how this narrative still persists. Even in a bad start to the season with an unfit squad we've scored 15 goals in 6 games.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Really like VDB's pass into Mata.. properly drills it into him, because he knows Mata can deal with it (which of course he does perfectly)

Bruno's first touch from Rashford's pass is also perfect. Just a lovely goal. Would have been the goal of the weekend if not for Lanzini.
 

ROFLUTION

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One of the best team goals post Ferguson? Can't think of a lot of others to compare with
 

romufc

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Watch the 3rd goal. 22 passes over 50s before AWB scores. 16 of those 22 passes were two touches or less. If that's not a build up play, nothing else is!!!
But that doesnt suit the Ole out narrative of he cannot break teams down.

It is frustrating to see that a portion of united fans are so far Ole out that when we score good goals or play well the statement from them is: Put good players on the pitch and they find a way.

Well, we have good players on the pitch against Palace and Spurs and everyone said shit tactics. I agree, Ole needs to improve on his tactics. However; it is clear that he has some tactics.
 

Wheato

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People saying that Mata has no pace. He started that Move in our D. And when Bruno slotted the ball into the net, he was the furthest forward teammate. Pogba was ambling 10 yards behind him.
 

OleTheGreat

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No patterns of play... Yet we keep scoring these kind of goals?
Finally somebody with the same wavelength as I. I actually started a thread saying we have no patterns of play whatsoever. But sometimes we come up with such beautiful goals. Imagine only if we were coached to play a certain way and these talents would just mesmerize opponents every time. I only wish we are coached to play in certain patterns and then decide to take it on one step further in parts of the pitch.
 

#07

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Watch the 3rd goal. 22 passes over 50s before AWB scores. 16 of those 22 passes were two touches or less. If that's not a build up play, nothing else is!!!
I was thinking that too!

Was hoping @GifLord would provide a clip of the entire 22 pass move leading to Wan-Bissaka's goal. Everyone is going on about Fernandes' goal, rightly so, but our third one at Newcastle was a superb team goal too. That seems to have gotten lost in amongst the Ole can only counter narrative of some people e.g. Miguel Delaney.
 

Ludens the Red

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This was just an innovative counter-attack. We are good at those. What we are poor at is making similar innovative passes and movements to break down parked buses.
Yeah...people in here talking as if we’re Bolton Wanderers.
Like us putting together passes and running should be commended and salivated, get a fecking grip.
We’ve got very very good footballers playing for us, capable of doing things like this. It was a great counter attacking goal but how this somehow means the question marks against our coaching was wrong and this proves it is a bit of a simple outlook.

Like you said, it’s being able to break down parked buses that are the concerns. I’ll add to that, press resisting and basically doing things that ALTER the oppositions moves/tactics etc. That is a sign of good coaching.
A counter attacking goal late in a game when there are giant spaces available for top class players like Rashford, Bruno, Van Der Beek and Mata is not a conclusive sign of great coaching.
What this emphatically tells you is our players are very capable of quick passing, decision making and movement which then makes it astonishing that we can’t do things like press a team, resist a press and break down stubborn defences. It shows we’re not drilled enough in these aspects to get them done as they are far more difficult than countering.
 

Kamprad

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Beautiful counterattack. Have to highlight Matas first touch and cross even though every pass and the runs were very good.
 

kafta

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I loved VdB's part in that goal. The give and go in our half before the nice pass to the middle. Every pass was perfect, and the finish sublime.
 

OleTheGreat

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That was a beauty of a goal and I wish we see more of this kind of goals in the near future. I thoroughly enjoyed the last 15 odd mins of the game.
 

K Stand Knut

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People saying that Mata has no pace. He started that Move in our D. And when Bruno slotted the ball into the net, he was the furthest forward teammate. Pogba was ambling 10 yards behind him.
The last sentence of this is the most telling and the camera angle in the first post shows it perfectly.

Pogba is the only one of our attacking 5 at the time who wasn’t involved. Why?? Because he didn’t set off from anything more than a trot until the ball was on the halfway line.

He’s a liability and doesn’t offer anything going forward. Our best football never includes him.

Sorry to put a negative post in this thread but he angers me and I watched the video for the umpteenth time to see where Pogba was in all of the passage.

Exceedingly good goal
 

Gasolin

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Yeah...people in here talking as if we’re Bolton Wanderers.
Like us putting together passes and running should be commended and salivated, get a fecking grip.
We’ve got very very good footballers playing for us, capable of doing things like this. It was a great counter attacking goal but how this somehow means the question marks against our coaching was wrong and this proves it is a bit of a simple outlook.

Like you said, it’s being able to break down parked buses that are the concerns. I’ll add to that, press resisting and basically doing things that ALTER the oppositions moves/tactics etc. That is a sign of good coaching.
A counter attacking goal late in a game when there are giant spaces available for top class players like Rashford, Bruno, Van Der Beek and Mata is not a conclusive sign of great coaching.
What this emphatically tells you is our players are very capable of quick passing, decision making and movement which then makes it astonishing that we can’t do things like press a team, resist a press and break down stubborn defences. It shows we’re not drilled enough in these aspects to get them done as they are far more difficult than countering.
Again, third goal?
 

SER19

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We've scored quite a few goals like this under solskjaer and I think and the 3td goal best shows the style of football solskjaer wants. When it clicks its as good as anything to watch

Consistency is the key with everything
 

Ludens the Red

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Again, third goal?
The goal we scored after we’d just completely flattened them with the late winner?
Look at Newcastle’s positioning and how much they’re trying to get to the ball.
Look , we have good football players, we are going to score good goals and play good football, it’s a given.

There is a bigger picture here...
 

sammsky1

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This was just an innovative counter-attack. We are good at those. What we are poor at is making similar innovative passes and movements to break down parked buses.
We are not poor at that at all. Stop making stuff up
 

Gasolin

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The goal we scored after we’d just completely flattened them with the late winner?
Look at Newcastle’s positioning and how much they’re trying to get to the ball.
Look , we have good football players, we are going to score good goals and play good football, it’s a given.

There is a bigger picture here...
It’s the kind of goal Ole wants us to score too and most importantly, you can find plenty of goals like that with this team. But none of those goals suit the narrative so we talk about counter attacking and what not... really naive here.

Yes please, focus on the big picture. Look how the team is executing those goals. There is a pattern and an intention of play that is clear.
 

Web of Bissaka

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No patterns of play... Yet we keep scoring these kind of goals?
Natural creative players with good visions, technical skills and quick attacking instincts.
~ Bruno, Mata, VDB and even Rashford have been upping up his playmaking-ish games since last season.

Still individual reliance, no coached patterns of play.
 

romufc

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Natural creative players with good visions, technical skills and quick attacking instincts.
~ Bruno, Mata, VDB and even Rashford have been upping up his playmaking-ish games since last season.

Still individual reliance, no coached patterns of play.
Thank you. You are exactly the type of poster I wanted to respond to this.

So we have naturally talented players which leads us to play good football on some goals? Well didn't we have MORE creative / vision / technical players against Palace, Brighton, Spurs?

So why is it when in games we don't play well you will blame tactics but when we score good goals you say natural players, ofcourse they will do that?

So why do these good players who played every other game not do the same?
 

ChaddyP

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Natural creative players with good visions, technical skills and quick attacking instincts.
~ Bruno, Mata, VDB and even Rashford have been upping up his playmaking-ish games since last season.

Still individual reliance, no coached patterns of play.
You know it's only recently I've heard this term patterns of play. Similar to the commonly used phrase low blocks. What are patterns of play. I'm not very smart on this topic that apparently has been around forever
 

Adam-Utd

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People saying that Mata has no pace. He started that Move in our D. And when Bruno slotted the ball into the net, he was the furthest forward teammate. Pogba was ambling 10 yards behind him.
Mata's top speed is fine he's just slow to accelerate which is usually an issue when stuck out wide.

The last sentence of this is the most telling and the camera angle in the first post shows it perfectly.

Pogba is the only one of our attacking 5 at the time who wasn’t involved. Why?? Because he didn’t set off from anything more than a trot until the ball was on the halfway line.

He’s a liability and doesn’t offer anything going forward. Our best football never includes him.

Sorry to put a negative post in this thread but he angers me and I watched the video for the umpteenth time to see where Pogba was in all of the passage.

Exceedingly good goal
Or maybe he already saw 4 attacking players ahead of him and thought it would be better to hold the shape and not over commit the team?

Not everybody has to be sprinting towards the goal you know :lol: any reason to bash him these days.
 

K Stand Knut

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Mata's top speed is fine he's just slow to accelerate which is usually an issue when stuck out wide.


Or maybe he already saw 4 attacking players ahead of him and thought it would be better to hold the shape and not over commit the team?

Not everybody has to be sprinting towards the goal you know :lol: any reason to bash him these days.
‘These days’ have been long.

As in years long.

You cling to the idea that he’s ‘world class’ if it makes you feel better but let’s not derail the thread please
 

Ludens the Red

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It’s the kind of goal Ole wants us to score too and most importantly, you can find plenty of goals like that with this team. But none of those goals suit the narrative so we talk about counter attacking and what not... really naive here.

Yes please, focus on the big picture. Look how the team is executing those goals. There is a pattern and an intention of play that is clear.
Gonna sound like I’m repeating myself but we have good football players capable of producing excellent moments with excellent phases of play. Do people think we’ll go through the season scoring zero goals and putting together zero decent moves? And when we do suddenly Ole and the rest of our team are great coaches?

It’s called using a bigger sample size. The goal isn’t to play well and play good football every 1 in 5 games because guess what? there are teams out there better than Newcastle and when we play these teams we need more in our armoury to be able to get consistent results.
We need to be able to do something about repeatedly losing at home to Crystal Palace because were too uninventive and lazy to pull apart their parked bus.

We need to be able to do something about always struggling against Southampton’s heavy press. Shit like this.
Honestly if you guys genuinely think Ole, Carrick, McKenna and Phelan are doing their maximum with these players and that we’re going to win big trophies under them at some point, then I advise preparing for massive disappointment.
 

R77

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Beautiful counterattack. Have to highlight Matas first touch and cross even though every pass and the runs were very good.
That's the jewel in the crown for me too. Decisive, simple, and elegantly done. Bruno's finish is an absolute stonker though. It's a great goal.

Weird game to air the freestyle coaching gripe. Evidence of patterns and routines all over the shop, even alluded to in the post match. Unsurprisingly, much of it stuff we're actually good at, quick one twos, 3rd man moves, cute lay offs. We're certainly lacking a few moves to make a truly well rounded attack, but it's arguable the players are there and just not fit and integrated yet. We'll see.

Just because we don't charge forward in an impressive formation (often simply just a square shape) like Bayern, doesn't mean we just make it up as we go along.
 

Gasolin

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You know it's only recently I've heard this term patterns of play. Similar to the commonly used phrase low blocks. What are patterns of play. I'm not very smart on this topic that apparently has been around forever
Right, I am curious too. It seems that Ian Wright used it because of the CP game.

https://www.themanunitedfans.com/20...f-play-under-solskjaer-claims-arsenal-legend/

And now every fan and his dog who are skeptical of Ole want to use that word!

Ole has explained what he wants:
"Of course you want a team and a squad that can adapt to a certain way of football," said Solskjaer.

"But I always believe in forward passes, penetrative passes, wide play, getting crosses in the box. Pass and move, pass and run, play and run forward. Every player I’ve had if you ask them will tell you the same, that it’s about passing forward, running forward."


So you just have to watch our games and see if our players do that. Surprise, we do that more often than not, but when we were static, it was because their physical conditions was not (and is still not) top notch.

Since we are in the territory of saying weird stuff about Ole, I found a funny site:
https://community.sigames.com/topic/525136-ole-gunnar-solskjær-tactic/

Their description of Ole's tactics?

Some of their comments are:
- higher tempo, shorter passing, run at defence, pass into space, low crosses ...

- counter ...

- DL and LOE can vary (sometimes higher DL/standard LOE, and sometimes standard DL/lower LOE)

Bruno with more risky passes, roam from position, get further forward and long passes activated? He does everything, given the situation
Bruno also moves into the channels a lot to create overloads with the wide players.


Or

4-4-1-1 is the defensive formation United uses at this point. In attack its diffrent.

Martial is lone striker, actually links play very good. CF or DLF is closest I think. He is mobile.

Behind him is Bruno, he is everywhere and the most risk taking player in the team. Roams.

then it is Greenwood down right, cuts inside a lot. On the left Rashford keeps the width much more.

CM is Pogba and Matic, Pogba connects the team and is involved in transitions more often than Matic who still does it, but not to the same extent.

In defence the right defender Awb overlaps a lot and Shaw is more inclined to underlap. Both central defenders are decent on the ball.

ddg is a regular keeper, not comfortable sweeping up Loose balls.


And one last one.


Mentality: Positive

In Possession: Play Out Of Defence, Low Crosses, More Expression

Transition: Counter Press, Counter, GK Dist??? (not seen enough to say)

Out Possession: Higher D-Line, Higher LOE, Split Press, Prevent GK Dist

---------------------------------------------------

Rashfords been the deeper of the wide forwards and also sometimes more like a normal winger so might add PI to Stay Wider to get him isolated 1v1 against opponents FB more.

Greenwoods been more of a 2nd striker coming narrow so maybe that PI for him.

Martials been pressing, linking, making attacking runs... initially I put DLF-At but think he's played like a CF-At

Matic sometimes plays like a HB which can't really replicate from CM and I don't think the midfielders are DM's in FM terms. Matic also sometimes gets ahead of the ball which a CM-De doesn't typically do BUT this might be more counter or a swap position situation in FM terms and not part of the standard pattern of play.

Bruno has been all over hence I've gave him more of a free role, his attributes like work rate will make him still press when the time is right.

Sometimes there's different patterns but I think in FM terms this is how they setup. Not sure how well it would do, especially with current FM database attributes / traits.


Don't you guys find it interesting that FM players see tactics with Ole and try to reproduce it, but our fans do not? I personally find that fascinating!
 

horsechoker

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We've been close a few times to doing something similar and then one pass is misplaced or over/underhit. It takes real skill to execute a multiple pass goal with one/two touch passing.

Just one mishap ruins the whole move at the top level.
 

Gasolin

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Gonna sound like I’m repeating myself but we have good football players capable of producing excellent moments with excellent phases of play. Do people think we’ll go through the season scoring zero goals and putting together zero decent moves? And when we do suddenly Ole and the rest of our team are great coaches?

It’s called using a bigger sample size. The goal isn’t to play well and play good football every 1 in 5 games because guess what? there are teams out there better than Newcastle and when we play these teams we need more in our armoury to be able to get consistent results.
We need to be able to do something about repeatedly losing at home to Crystal Palace because were too uninventive and lazy to pull apart their parked bus.

We need to be able to do something about always struggling against Southampton’s heavy press. Shit like this.
Honestly if you guys genuinely think Ole, Carrick, McKenna and Phelan are doing their maximum with these players and that we’re going to win big trophies under them at some point, then I advise preparing for massive disappointment.
I feel like I am talking to a wall but there are 2 things.

1/ The form is sustainable, the results were getting better in the second half last season and before Bruno joined. It was building up. And when I say better, it means that we simply didn't lose and kept a winning streak. A very long one.

2/ The start of this season is not the end of the world, considering the preseason issue. What's clear is that:
- 8 of the top 10 teams had a proper preseason with 4/5 training games. That started around the time we played Seville.
- Liverpool in 3rd apparently had 1 or 2 weeks more than us.
- City in 10th had the same preparation as we had.

We win our game in hand, we will close up to them in no time.
We have not lost our identity acquired during last season and giving us winning streak all of sudden, but we are going to need time to build up match fitness to play the way we want.

Honestly, if you think we have not acquired a very strong identity off and on the ball and do not see our winning streak (I mean, at this point, I have to imagine numbers and facts don't matter to you if you cannot see how a team that had such a bad start could finish 3rd), then I advise you to prepare yourself for a massive, but massive disappointment as United under Ole will win a lot of games.
 

Born2Lose

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That's why I love Bruno, he may try things and misplace passes but 85 minutes gone and he's still busting a gut to get the winning goal.
 

Ludens the Red

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I feel like I am talking to a wall but there are 2 things.

1/ The form is sustainable, the results were getting better in the second half last season and before Bruno joined. It was building up. And when I say better, it means that we simply didn't lose and kept a winning streak. A very long one.

2/ The start of this season is not the end of the world, considering the preseason issue. What's clear is that:
- 8 of the top 10 teams had a proper preseason with 4/5 training games. That started around the time we played Seville.
- Liverpool in 3rd apparently had 1 or 2 weeks more than us.
- City in 10th had the same preparation as we had.

We win our game in hand, we will close up to them in no time.
We have not lost our identity acquired during last season and giving us winning streak all of sudden, but we are going to need time to build up match fitness to play the way we want.

Honestly, if you think we have not acquired a very strong identity off and on the ball and do not see our winning streak (I mean, at this point, I have to imagine numbers and facts don't matter to you if you cannot see how a team that had such a bad start could finish 3rd), then I advise you to prepare yourself for a massive, but massive disappointment as United under Ole will win a lot of games.
Think we just have to agree to disagree, mainly because I think we have different expectancy and standards. I’m not one of those United fans who feels 3rd with 66 points and 18 wins from 38 games is an achievement as such with about a dozen good performances thrown in and I don’t think it constitutes “winning a lot of games”. Weve won less than half of our league games Under this regime but ok... Anyway I feel it is the bare minimum.
But to some United fans that is huge success and that is the standard you will judge Ole at and maybe me and some others just have to accept the outlook that you guys have and you just have to accept ours.
I see you did the classic “claim United fan who doesn’t rate Ole wants United to lose thing”... highly original.

But Anyway when supporters of the 19 other PL clubs state they “don’t know Man United‘s style of play” and that they are “happy for Ole to remain as manager as it means United will never reach the top“, that to me is an eye opener but yeah it’s like talking to a wall...
 

Tomuś

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Bruno must have been breathing through his arse running there. He looked dead around 60th minute mark.
 

GifLord

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I was thinking that too!

Was hoping @GifLord would provide a clip of the entire 22 pass move leading to Wan-Bissaka's goal. Everyone is going on about Fernandes' goal, rightly so, but our third one at Newcastle was a superb team goal too. That seems to have gotten lost in amongst the Ole can only counter narrative of some people e.g. Miguel Delaney.
@GifLord do you have the 3rd goal from when we gained possession of the ball? (so all 20 odd passes or whatever)

 

Untd55

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It was a good goal, but there was a lot of space to play into. We still struggle with creating chances even if the defence isn't packed. Against Newcastle, we didn't really create a clear cut chance (Fernandes offside goal aside) and they didn't exactly park the bus; they didn't do anything really. It wasn't until it opened up where we actually were able to score goals.

We struggle without space to play into.
 

The Original

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Watch the 3rd goal. 22 passes over 50s before AWB scores. 16 of those 22 passes were two touches or less. If that's not a build up play, nothing else is!!!
I don't think that was as impressive as it sounds. There was a lot of unprogressive back and forthing that nearly lead to a Maguire losing possession.