So what happens with our backline once Maguire is back in the mix?

Bestietom

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How many CBs have we tried with Maguire. He's clumsy, and should take most of the blame, and try and correct it.
 

Renson

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Everyone saying drop Lindelof, yet he was the one who organised that defence last night. He was excellent, and Tuanzebe is getting a lot of plaudits but more from the lack of expectation around him putting in a performance. He did well in his two big moments with Mbappe, but that gives its own rush versus a first teamer playing well. Lindelof is a lot quicker than Maguire and a good organiser. What wasn’t needed last night though was the ball playing centre half.
You know our 80 million British defender has to come in as soon as he is fit so someone has to be sacrificed. Might as well start laying the ground work for why it should be lindelof.
 

Kostov

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Maguire + Tuanzebe should be tried and see how it goes if we are to play 2 CBs, if we are to play the same formation as last night, Maguire replaces Lindelof for me. In the PL where we will need to play more open it will be a different game and every CB has to be able to deal with the attacker anywhere on the pitch. I have much more confidence in Maguire to do that than any other CB we have.
 

crossy1686

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How many times are we going to pair a new CB with Maguire and say they're shit? Not everyone can be shit, at some point we have to ask questions about Maguire.
 

OleBoiii

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People need to stop being so reactionary. Maguire had a good season last year. Everyone can suffer bad form. Up until this weekend, this was true for the whole team. One excellent game where practically all of Ole's tactical decisions paid off, doesn't mean that Maguire ought to be benched.
 

EdinburghDevil

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I'd like to see Maguire and Tuanzebe play a run of games together. I would probably rotate Tuanzebe and Lindelof for the next 4-6 weeks where possible and see if Tuanzebe can remain fit.

I think all 3 will get plenty of game time this season as I do think we will set up like we did against PSG last night. I can see us playing Arsenal, Chelsea and possibly even Everton with the 3-5-2.
 

8A_IDUA

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Play him in a back 5(more cover), in a back 4, especially in a high line, he's simply too slow to turn and recover.
Little bit of pace and he gets rinsed 90% of the time. Good to have in the squad, but never a starting CB and not a 80mil player.
 

GBBQ

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People need to stop being so reactionary. Maguire had a good season last year. Everyone can suffer bad form. Up until this weekend, this was true for the whole team. One excellent game where practically all of Ole's tactical decisions paid off, doesn't mean that Maguire ought to be benched.
I think people are just highlighting that Tuanzebe and Lindelof complemented each other well against what is arguably the most potent forward line in world football. Maybe Tuanzebe would also be the right partner for Maguire.

Of course last night might just have been a fluke, Tuanzebe's horrific injury record might continue. But ultimately he's at least posed a question that our best CB pairing might not include our club captain.
 

diarm

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Having a quick, covering centre back like Tuanzebe for a partner is going to improve either of Lindelof and Maguire and to be honest, there's not much between them.

The one thing Maguire has going for him now though, is Telles taking corners. He'd have got himself on the end of a couple of those last night in a way Lindelof is never going to.
 

Deery

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As I said in the Match day thread, Lindelof plays better when he doesn't have to spend half his time covering for Maguire's inadequacies.
You’re right Sassy Colin, Maguire so many mistakes in him and it’s not only speed related.
Unpopular opinion but i think Maguire is the weak link.
Yep..
I think Lindelof deserves a lot more respect. He didn't put a foot wrong and people still call for him to be dropped for Maguire.
Lindelof will always be the whipping boy even when it’s clear to see Maguire has been a lot more questionable in defence.
 

humdinger

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If Axel stays injury free then he and Maguire should develop into our first choice pairing for me.

I know Maguire is having a really rough time just now and is far from perfect but Lindelof has been bullied several times in the past and I have little faith in him.
 

JB7

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Lindelof will always be the whipping boy even when it’s clear to see Maguire has been a lot more questionable in defence.
This is just factually wrong. The number of times Maguire bailed Lindelof out last year was ridiculous. He's a good defender but he just gets bullied at times.
 

Deery

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This is just factually wrong. The number of times Maguire bailed Lindelof out last year was ridiculous. He's a good defender but he just gets bullied at times.
Where’s you facts then?

Maguire always out of position.
Far to slow
Caught chasing after the ball
Caught ball watching
Slow to react
Balls shot right through him
 

VP89

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This is just factually wrong. The number of times Maguire bailed Lindelof out last year was ridiculous. He's a good defender but he just gets bullied at times.
It really wasn't. Lindelof isn't perfect but he's no way near as poor in his individual errors as Maguire is. He is the first defender to get blamed for a poor result and often the first name to be dropped from predicted starting XIs, despite Maguire being the poorer performing center back.
 

saivet

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I'm not sure. I'm not a big fan of Maguire but the biggest thing he brings is an ariel presence and given the way PSG play and the players they have it meant that even Lindelof had no issues in the air tonight. Looking at the upcoming fixtures, to be honest, I think Everton is the type of fixture we'd miss him in rather than the others.
 

klsv

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IF Tuanzebe can stay fit, rotation with Lindelöf and Bailly until we get a better CB, right now should be at the bench.
So it's Maguire and Tuanzebe + Lindelöf + Bailly until the latter three are going to be replaced by a better CB, but Maguire always plays?
 

JB7

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Where’s you facts then?

Maguire always out of position.
Far to slow
Caught chasing after the ball
Caught ball watching
Slow to react
Balls shot right through him
That's just nonsense, it sounds like you watch LadBible 5 second clips & play FIFA rather than watching the actual games. Probably the sort of person who retweeted that ridiculous "no look defending" meme they created about Maguire during the Sevilla game when in context he was the only defender actually doing his job.

He stepped our defending up a level last season massively, him & AWB made a huge difference and Lindelof was comfortably the weak link between the two. He isn't perfect by any stretch but he is comfortably the best defender at the club & for some reason him having a couple of very poor games at the start of the season has been blown out of all proportion - what makes it even more baffling is he wasn't even our worst defender in those games.
 

Will Singh

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Tuanzebe has earned himself a run of games and if that’s successful then he should be a starter. He had Mbappe in he’s pocket and he’s pace can’t be matched by any of our defenders bar maybe Bailly.
 

Deery

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That's just nonsense, it sounds like you watch LadBible 5 second clips & play FIFA rather than watching the actual games. Probably the sort of person who retweeted that ridiculous "no look defending" meme they created about Maguire during the Sevilla game when in context he was the only defender actually doing his job.

He stepped our defending up a level last season massively, him & AWB made a huge difference and Lindelof was comfortably the weak link between the two. He isn't perfect by any stretch but he is comfortably the best defender at the club & for some reason him having a couple of very poor games at the start of the season has been blown out of all proportion - what makes it even more baffling is he wasn't even our worst defender in those games.
Typical red cafe response “oh you must be a FIFA player”. When they have no reply to you it’s pathetic.
And no I don’t play or retweet memes.

I could go back to near the start of the Maguire thread and read where I had my concerns about him, this isn’t based on three games it’s from watching him closely the entire season something you have failed to do.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Realistically, Maguire as our captain and £80m signing is going to play when he’s fit. So, it him plus one (or two when we go three at the back). If Axel can stay fit, I’d love to see him and Maguire be given a run as our CB pairing - it could actually work pretty well. Then, if we play a three, Shaw slots in there as well.
 

Green_Red

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I think Shaw did brilliantly as LCB too. 3 at the back works really well for us. When everybody puts in an 8/10 it helps your own individual performances too.
 

dal

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Not taking anything away from Tuanzebe but against those two on your first game it’s easier to concentrate on the task at hand.

Still Lindelof and Maguire for me Tuanzebe must do it consistently and keep his concentration as keeping concentration is what separates the top tier defenders.

Looking forward to his progress.
 

Smores

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I've been an advocate for giving Axel more games but not like this. We do need some defensive stability and it'll cause too many issues benching Maguire, if he carries on his bad form for another few games then maybe you look at it.

I don't think we'll persist with 3 at the back beyond the big games.
 

A-man

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What I like with Tuanzebe - Lindelof is that both seem to be proper schooled and have the basic positioning and movements right. That is also why they could play so well together despite the fact it was one their first times together. I think it is easy to play with Lindelof or Tuanzebe. With Bailly and to some extent Maguire, the other CB doesnt know how he will react in certain situations and always need to be on stand-by to cover.

But I don't think we can draw to many conclusions from one game. We learned that Tuanzebe can play top notch football against top notch attacking players. But it was one match, with a defensive set-up. AWB, Lindelof and Shaw were also very good, and all three of them have had shit shows very recently.

Tuanzebe now need to prove he has a good "lowest level", that he can perform at good level match after match. He also needs to show he can stay injury-free. So far in his career he has not showed that.

I think PSG suited this back line well, because Shaw, Lindelof and Tuanzebe are good at defending against team that play with high speed on the ground, and Lindelof is good enough in the air to clear aerials against PSG, but is it possible to play this backline against teams that are stronger in the air? This set-up will not be as good when we need to dominate a team that is sitting back. In the end, we need several options for full backs and centre backs, as injuries will kick in and we have more difficult games this season (CL + PL).

It was a bit more our formation than individual players tonight (although none really put a wrong step forward).

This set up will be just as good with Maguire in it. We should definitely use it in the coming stretch of matches.
I am not so sure, I think PSG would target Maguire on the ground as he is easy to beat for a god fast dribbler. Especially the last 25 minutes when we played with Pogba instead of Telles.
 
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JB7

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Typical red cafe response “oh you must be a FIFA player”. When they have no reply to you it’s pathetic.
And no I don’t play or retweet memes.

I could go back to near the start of the Maguire thread and read where I had my concerns about him, this isn’t based on three games it’s from watching him closely the entire season something you have failed to do.
It's not a no-reply option at all, I just fail to see how anyone could have properly watched our games last season and decided Maguire was the weak link defensively - and then to have the audacity to claim I haven't watch him over the season is just comical. The difference he made to the defence was honestly night and day compared with the season before, your "out of position" comment is ridiculous as positionally he is so far ahead of Lindelof, Bailly etc - he has to be because he's not quick so makes up for it. From the first minute against Chelsea last season he was the one talking & organising the other defenders, anyone in the stadium could see he was going to be the obvious choice as captain as the season went on as the rest of our defenders are practically mutes. I don't even dislike Lindelof, he's a good defender and will go to a good club I imagine but as a pairing they just aren't going to work long-term & he's the one who has to drop out because Maguire is way too important to us back there.

I've long thought the best partner for him at the club potentially is Tuanzebe & maybe we'll see that in the coming weeks/months.
 

A-man

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Up until now I thought it would be impossible to bench Maguire no matter his performance. Captain, prestige, English national team player, etc. But Ole showed some balls when benching Pogba in this high level match. I think that should give Ole the confidence to look at performance before name.

At the same time, the defence has been poor lately, and he need some stability. Axel is not really synonymous with stability, at least not yet. I think he'll go for Lindelof - Maguire and ease in Tuanzebe.
 

MancFanFromManc

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I'm not surprised Maguire is the hot topic of the day. Would we have won if he'd have played last night? I seriously doubt it. He did well against Newcastle, and he's an absolute power house, but against pace he gets done constantly. Being a United defender means you need pace, or certainly pace around you (I'm thinking Bruce & Pallister). We spend much of the game attacking so we cant be easily done on the counter or we'll never win anything

Ole has a decision to make and suspect it be Maguire + 1 (or 2). Rio & co last night were all saying you cant drop Tuanzebe after that performance, but you can. He's young. He knows he enhanced his rep, but he also knows it will take time for him to establish himself as a first choice
 

AneRu

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I think we should play 3 at the back from here on in, at least until the results stabilize and the defense is back on a strong footing. Besides we don't have good wingers but have a very strong central core from central defense right up to the forward line so we could have a back 3 of Shaw, Maguire and Tuanzebe or Maguire, Lindelof and Tuanzebe then in midfield it could be McTominay, Fred and Bruno for the difficult games or McTominay, Pogba and Bruno/Van der Beek for the less difficult games with Rashford plus one of Martial/Cavani/Greenwood. Lots of options for rotations and the defensive balance of the team is never under threat unlike when we try to shoehorn Pogba into central midfield in a 4-2-3-1. I think Rashford plus another as a front two will have the dynamism and skill to unsettle backlines especially on the break then when you consider Telles' crossing, runners from midfield and Bruno/Pogba passing into channels then it will work.
 

VojjE

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I would want to ease Tuanzebe in, so rotate the three when we play two at the back. Lindelöf/Maguire, Lindelöf/Tuanzebe and Maguire/Tuanzebe. Three players should be able to form a solid understanding of their roles and each others strengths. Tuanzebe has been unlucky with injuries so we should take care of him especially, but given how intense this season will be I'd say that rotating our CBs is a must.
 

Josh 76

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It's just nice to have some competition for once. This is what this club has lacked for a few years.
Telles will up Shaws game
Tuanzebe will up Maguires game
VDB will up Bruno game.
 

tombombadil

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The mob has got to stop. Seriously. Maguire is our best centerback. There is no question about it. Let's not reinvent history.

All our defenders have strengths and weaknesses. Even Maguire has a weakness. His speed. But still Maguire comes out on top on most metrics.

Lindelof is a good defender. Reads the game well and good on the ball. However, he gets beaten one on one, especially the physical ones. And he gets beaten in the air as well.

Bailly is a good defender. He has decent pace and is excellent in the tackle. However, he is not the best ball player in our defence. Also gets injured a lot.

Tuanzebe looks like he has good potential. Can defend. Can play the ball. Can win his headers. But he is very young and inexperienced in a position that can ill afford that. Any mistake can lead to a goal and losing the game. Also needs to put his injuries behind him.

The key now is not to find a scapegoat to blame for our all defensive troubles. The key now is to mix and match our defenders to find the best combination to meet the team's needs and outplay the opposition.

For now, that seems to be Maguire - Lindelof. In the future, that might very well be Maguire - Tuanzebe. We'll just have to wait and see.
 

rotherham_red

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I said it from last season, and IMO it would have happened but for injuries, but Axel and Maguire will be our first choice partnership at CB, fitness permitting.

Axel's strengths are in the areas where Maguire is weakest (recovery pace/acceleration and agility) and Maguire's strengths are in the areas where Axel is weakest (aerial duels). They are both fantastic ball players and have great anticipation and reading of the game.

All in all, they would make the perfect CB partnership, and my long-term hope is Mengi comes in and replaces Maguire in the long-term, as for me, he's THE complete CB prospect.
 

Camilo

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With certain game plans certain defenders look like world beaters... Tuanzebe might be an answer, or he might not be. I still remember Bobo Balde vs Barcelona - he utterly dominated their attacking line. The rest of his time at Celtic was spent trying not to fall over his own feet.

Maguire is a good player, we're a stronger team with him. He should start imo - we were extremely tight last season, he's not suddenly crap.
 

Glorio

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Was Axel always injury prone; or was it a case of getting a big injury, and then a related one off the back of it?

Genuine question - on his loan spell, were injuries a theme with him?
 

Glorio

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I said it from last season, and IMO it would have happened but for injuries, but Axel and Maguire will be our first choice partnership at CB, fitness permitting.

Axel's strengths are in the areas where Maguire is weakest (recovery pace/acceleration and agility) and Maguire's strengths are in the areas where Axel is weakest (aerial duels). They are both fantastic ball players and have great anticipation and reading of the game.

All in all, they would make the perfect CB partnership, and my long-term hope is Mengi comes in and replaces Maguire in the long-term, as for me, he's THE complete CB prospect.
Do we know that Axel is weak aerially? I do know he didn't come across as overly threatening, or an obvious target when we had corners, however, in a defensive sense I don't know we've seen anything to suggest an obvious weakness.

With regards to Mengi, I get the sense that he does look a bit short for a CB
 

rotherham_red

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Do we know that Axel is weak aerially? I do know he didn't come across as overly threatening, or an obvious target when we had corners, however, in a defensive sense I don't know we've seen anything to suggest an obvious weakness.

With regards to Mengi, I get the sense that he does look a bit short for a CB
In the games I've seen him in, it's been pretty apparent.
 

Bobcat

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People need to stop being so reactionary. Maguire had a good season last year. Everyone can suffer bad form. Up until this weekend, this was true for the whole team. One excellent game where practically all of Ole's tactical decisions paid off, doesn't mean that Maguire ought to be benched.
This. No doubt Maguire was catastrophic the first three games, but so were everyone else and vs Newcastle he bossed it. Credit to Tuanzebe and Lindelof, they did really well last night, but concluding that we now should drop Maguire (who was our best CB last year) is knee jerk and then some
 

Zen86

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People seem to underestimate the impact of having a solid, hard-working midfield sat in front of the defence. Take that away, and yesterday’s showing would’ve been just as amateur as the start of the season.

Tuanzebe played well and his pace is certainly an asset when the opposition breaks through, but he didn’t singlehandedly transform our back line nor will he in future.

The problem is simple, if you leave the defensive line exposed with bags of space, they will be torn to shreds every time. Yesterday we were tight and hardworking in the middle, and we looked solid across the pitch as a result.
 

cyril C

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That's not Maguire in his time at OT. He's been bullied plenty of times. I would not start him until the players who proved themselves today show otherwise.
How long or how many mistakes do you need from Lindelof, Bailly etc. to demonstrate the fact that they can't handle 6-foot striker? How many bad headers do you need to be replayed before you are convinced that Lindelof and Bailly are shitty in the air.

On the other hand, I wish your argument applies to Midfield, because Matic and Pogba will start next game