You should close the debate and watch the game again. It will give you the answer how defensive Chelsea was in that game and all they did was sit deep, play sideways and waiting for our mistakes which forced us to become passive and your preferred formation won't work against such team.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Ole outers, Ole iners.
Why can't there be Ole inbetweeners?
Why can't there be Ole inbetweeners?
Mate, I'm supporting the team, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find any posts by me criticizing the players, except a couple of them for James, Lingard and AP (who all are not so good footballers). I don't mind going Ole out, but there needs to be some solid basis for doing that. The issue with you and other Ole out-ers is that you guys wouldn't like to recognize the good done by him - which let's face it is quite a lot.
We talk about improvement all the time, and nearly all, if not all, of our underlying stats improved last season compared to the season before, despite us having a relatively inexperienced squad and we were riddled by injuries. Is that not a positive? Have you seen our big game record under Ole? It's ridiculously good! That along with improvement in most players is why people here back Ole. It's not because he's a club legend or anything (that helps ofcourse, but isn't why people want him to continue).
On the other hand, the shortcomings that you guys have can't be backed by numbers and stats. You had an issue with results - we've the 3rd best record in England in 2020. It gets more ridiculous when you start looking at from Feb'20, and we'd be tied for 1st I think. Even before Bruno came, people were on his side because we were underachieving in terms of results. You had an issue with low blocks - I think we haven't faced that issue for quite some time now. You had an issue with substitutions - we've come back from losing positions to get something out of the game in 53% of games last season. Only Liverpool and Wolves had a better rate than us last season. There were issues around transfers - I agree we overpaid for Maguire, but he's been a definite upgrade on what we had, and apart from James, I don't think he's got much wrong, which is a terrific record for any manager.
The last paragraph is purely hypothetical. Had we scored, sure, we could have dictated how the game would be played, however, you need to realize that Chelsea would also get more space at the back by doing so, and Pulisic and Werner are good finishers. It was quite obvious what Lampard's strategy was, and I'm pretty sure you would have criticized Ole had we conceded from such a situation because "Hindsight is always 20/20"
I never said Mata was. But yeah, James is only known for his off the ball running. It's the only thing in his locker. Ole certainly can't have been picking him for anything he does with the ball at his feet.
Surely every manager is making compromises in their team selection based on factors beyond what we as fans know about. Otherwise managing would be reduced to selecting the 11 highest rated players in the squad and tossing them on the pitch. How can team selection be criticized when we haven’t watched training, assessed fitness, monitored minor injuries, and measured the players’ mental fitness for the match?
Because sometimes you just have to use your eyes and see that something is wrong. Personally, I thought the team and Ole were good in the second half, but simply to the naked eye, we can see him starting James was wrong. As usual, he offered nothing except running like a headless chicken on steroids.
OleWankers!
I would say his pace, but either way, James was a bad pick considering how Chelsea lined up. The thing is though, Cavani has not played since March and Greenwood just returned from injury (or was benched due to misconduct). Considering Martial is still banned that leaves VdB, who is not really a winger
Even Rojo on the left wing would be better than James.
People talk about number of shots etc but IMO we only had once good chance in the game which was saved by Mendy in the first half from Rashford which came about after Chelsea had players out of position. The other Mendy save was regulation stuff after Chelsea made a mess of a simple clearance which fell to Rashford.
My concern with Ole is that whenever he's been succesful against quality teams like City, Chelsea, Liverpool etc he's always sacrificed attacking intent for defensive stability with our CBs protected by both fullbacks and the double pivot and our attack set up to exploit space in transition.
IMO the strategy against the big teams relies too heavily on individual brilliance upfront which is a concern for me. And until I see my club find the right balance between defense and attack I will have doubts about the current coach who I believe has thus far failed to transform us from a reactive team to a proactive one against quality opposition where we cede space and play like the underdog.
I'd just like to add that i'm here to express my opinion and won't allow myself to get into a petty argument.
My concern with Ole is that whenever he's been succesful against quality teams like City, Chelsea, Liverpool etc he's always sacrificed attacking intent for defensive stability with our CBs protected by both fullbacks and the double pivot and our attack set up to exploit space in transition.
IMO the strategy against the big teams relies too heavily on individual brilliance upfront which is a concern for me. And until I see my club find the right balance between defense and attack I will have doubts about the current coach who I believe has thus far failed to transform us from a reactive team to a proactive one against quality opposition where we cede space and play like the underdog.
I'd just like to add that i'm here to express my opinion and won't allow myself to get into a petty argument.
Because it was Daniel fecking James ahead of Pogba, vDB, Cavani and Greenwood. How can you not criticize it? James was most likely not at his best mental fitness as well judging by his performance. He needed to be subbed so bad, James' performance was similar to that of a student that gets bullied on his first day at school who just wants to get home as soon as possible.
Yeah feels like we only seem to get results when we are seen as the underdog,however you look at it Ole being appointed permanently happened because the club got far too caught up in the euphoria of Paris and weren't thinking straight at all.
Like I said in the Ole discussion thread, he made a misstep with his starting XI yesterday, even if I could understand why he did it. Personally I thought the best choice would have been for Pogba and Matic to come in to the double pivot and Greenwood instead of Mata and Cavani leading the line but then once that was done with I was fine with the overall performance. Not great by any means but with the players that were out there it definitely kept Chelsea's stellar attack very quiet.
Hopefully Ole learns from it and we move on.
If we can end this little horror run til the international break undefeated then we can look back on a job well done this month. Especially so since so many in this thread were counting down the days until his sacking and were halfway to writing obituaries to his reign of being Manchester United manager with most saying he'd be sacked by now.
Hopefully Ole learns from it and we move on.
If we can end this little horror run til the international break undefeated then we can look back on a job well done this month. Especially so since so many in this thread were counting down the days until his sacking and were halfway to writing obituaries to his reign of being Manchester United manager with most saying he'd be sacked by now.
I am officially an OleInbetweener.
That position is subject to change based entirely on results though. Because I'm just that fickle.
That position is subject to change based entirely on results though. Because I'm just that fickle.
Would make a lot more sense and if true it would be a fair enough reason and nothing to critcize Ole about (I. E. The decision to play the 4 at the back). Also overrules the tripe @UNITED ACADEMY is on about too, trying to claim Chelsea set out the park the bus when they had passeges of play around our final third.
Anyway my issue as I explained was the passive outlook we had toward the game allowing it to drift us by, and the weird selections of players. I mean that decision to test Bruno on the right to allow for Pogba was beyond belief.
That's an absurd question to ask. I mean really!
It does not matter how much you win away, if you cant win a home game in 5 matches in the league in a raw. 7 points of 15.
Okay, I'm writing from the perspective of imagining that I make the big decisions, kind of a thought experiment.
If I were in charge I'd take a hit of one season out of the top four if I believed that Ole is building a squad that wil be able to challenge - with or without Ole - in the long term.
5 matches home in a raw in the league without a win.
I agree with you. In almost 2 years under the current coach we have continued with our underdog strategy against big teams and have spent vast amounts of money and it's changed very little. Some would argue the vast sums spent on certain players has made it worse.
But having said that if he (Ole) finds the defensive balance and makes us a more potent team going forward then i'll be amongst the first to praise him.
What’s more absurd: Ole making team selection based on factors we fans aren’t privy to, or half the fans in this thread being better managers than him? I stand by my assertion that filling the team sheet is more complex than picking names based on player ratings.
I agree. Shut down the forum mods, mister genius here has it all figured out.
Well considering the person in question has been moaning about OGS for well over a year
It overrules nothing. You love chat shit
Says the guy who claims Chelsea "parked the bus" just because he didn't see free flowing attack football.It overrules nothing. You love chat shit
Your analysis of the game is so blunt it works in a binary fashion. Move on.
Do you even know what is park the bus? Google it, come back & tell me. No point wasting my time talking about it if you don't even know what it is.
Found out why we couldnt beat them, it was the crowd not being there.
Ole on why we couldnt beat Chelsea
Ole on why we couldnt beat Chelsea
Heat Maps and action zone stats suggest you are wrong. Although not in front of goal, they did park something.
Thanks for you snarky comment. Maybe i would take rennie if it was Bayern or Madrid.
It was fecking Spurs with our ex manager. Joke
It was fecking Spurs with our ex manager. Joke
It was a decent result, no need to give cringe excuses. Don't listen to Ole's interviews anymore. Half of it is him rationalising shortcomings on the day
Well there is no doubt that home advantage is gone without fans.
In 2018/19 the home team won 181 games and lost 128 games
So far this season the home team has won 19 games and lost 24 games
I am not saying that is the main reason we didn't win - but it certainly has an effect. So when people slaughter us for losing at home and winning away - stats indicate there is no real home advantage anymore.
The standards are obviously much lower at Man Utd that Real Madrid but
15 Manchester United
1 Real Madrid
The word was that had Zidane lost against Barcelona then his job would have been on the line this coming Tuesday against 'Gladbach.
3 Home games : 2 Losses and 1 Draw. There can't be that many chances left for OGS, can there? He added unnecessary pressure on himself by picking James
15 Manchester United
1 Real Madrid
The word was that had Zidane lost against Barcelona then his job would have been on the line this coming Tuesday against 'Gladbach.
3 Home games : 2 Losses and 1 Draw. There can't be that many chances left for OGS, can there? He added unnecessary pressure on himself by picking James
if PSG's fans were allowed in that game on Tuesday may have been different. It's not that it's not true, it's more that it doesn't matter as everyone faces the same set of circumstances so it's reaching to point as an advantage/disadvantage
ManCity 1 home win
Leicester 1 home win
Tottenham 0 home win
Chelsea 1 home win
Wolverhampton 1 home win
Should all those clubs sack their manager?
What do I want to say with this. Nothing. Because it is a competition where 38 games are played. Stop going on about home games (now where there isn't even fans inside).
It was boring but not one of the most boring. Hell i will argue it wasn't even one of the most boring 0-0 against chelsea at OT since saf retired
Name a more boring one? I’m sticking to my guns. Moyes 0-0 was less boring and that was terrible.Exactly. Whats the excuse when we drew/lost when the crowds where there. Ole - we would have won if the crowd had shouted louder
Ok off top of my head here you go
Mu v..west ham 0-0 15-16 PL game at ot. (That was one.of the worst games I.have seen)
Mu v. Middlesboro the crap 0-0 league cup game in 15-16 season
Mu v. City Jose's first season was diabolical
Mu v Newcastle 0-0 again vag gaal season
And trust me the chelsea game under.moyes was trash where we created feck all unlike yesterday where the best player was Chelsea's gk.
The GK literally made one good save against Rashford with the one and one. That wasn’t even a world class save. No one but you thinks the GK was the best player. I would have thought he pulled a master class DDG performance from what you’ve said. Amazing.
As for Moyes’s game I can picture Welbeck just fluffing his lines with a shot that was easier to score.
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