Paul Pogba

I just hope Pogba gets the change to go to a better positioned team and fulfils his full capabilities.

We don't know our best team, players, tactics and that prat Carragah saying "it's been 4 years" is just more proxy Souness vitirol.

In those 4 years we've had 2 managers, one of which was a known change-merchant and now we have Ole who is tactically naive. So 4 years isn't that long to try and understand a players position and the purchase of VdB has made the midfield complication even worse

kouroux said:

Very well said.

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Disagree conpletely Im afraid.
If you are having a debate about a player who divides opinion and there isnt the slightest racial or religous word or implication from any contributor, by bringing it up you are definitely implying that those who disagree with you are prejudiced. Its not as if the accusation is levelled at one person for something specific.
In these circumstances its simply playing the race / religous card to close debate in your favour when the arguments about the player are going against you.
Personally I think a throwing around serious allegations like racism/religous intolerance should be a banning offence unless backed up with something specific that is obviously or even not so obviously the reason for saying it.

Focusmate said:

Disagree conpletely Im afraid.
If you are having a debate about a player who divides opinion and there isnt the slightest racial or religous word or implication from any contributor, by bringing it up you are definitely implying that those who disagree with you are prejudiced. Its not as if the accusation is levelled at one person for something specific.
In these circumstances its simply playing the race / religous card to close debate in your favour when the arguments about the player are going against you.
Personally I think a throwing around serious allegations like racism/religous intolerance should be a banning offence unless backed up with something specific that is obviously or even not so obviously the reason for saying it.

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So you believe it’s fine for one person to make a sweeping statement, and say that none of the criticism aimed at Pogba has ever had any racial or prejudice undertones, despite the fact they couldn’t possibly know that?

Anybody have any idea why he's taken to wearing an arm sleeve usually used by other sportsmen for bursitis eg basketball and baseball? Does he have a chronic arm injury?

MyOnlySolskjaer said:

Style. I like it to be honest.

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Really? Is that the confirmed reason?

UmbroDays said:

I just hope Pogba gets the change to go to a better positioned team and fulfils his full capabilities.

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This is similar to people saying they feel sorry for him as the club has let him down. He's had every chance here to fulfil his capabilities, certainly as much as any other player currently here. As excited as I was when we signed him I cannot in all honesty say I feel he's made the very most of his time here.

UmbroDays said:

In those 4 years we've had 2 managers, one of which was a known change-merchant and now we have Ole who is tactically naive. So 4 years isn't that long to try and understand a players position and the purchase of VdB has made the midfield complication even worse

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So it's everything other than Pogbas fault right? Rashford, Martial, Fred, McT and a lot of other players have been here in the same period and they all show us what they can do regularly now. Why is it just Pogba that is still struggling to show what he is capable of? I can't help but think he doesn't show it because he has no interest in being here, which then perpetuates some peoples (mine included) dislike of him. 4 years is plenty of time regardless of managerial circumstances. Come on. 4 years is almost a quarter of his whole career. Maybe we've seen what he is capable of and it isn't what we need right now?

Why Is Paul Pogba Wearing A Sleeve On His Arm? And Is It Even Allowed?

Exact Reasons For Pogba's Sleeve On Arm Not Known

Paul Pogba wore a navy sleeve in the match against Ukraine and a white one with the Adidas logo against Portugal. There is no official reason why Pogba is wearing the sleeve since the player has not revealed the reason(s), so there are several hypotheses, as Footpack notes.

THE FIRST HYPOTHESIS IS AN INJURY OR THE PREVENTION OF AN INJURY
The first hypothesis is an injury or the prevention of an injury. In fact, in the early 2000s, NBA player Iverson suffered from bursitis (an inflammation of a serous bursa) and used a sleeve in order to compress the painful region. He scored 50 points in the first match wearing a sleeve and never wore no sleeve again.

In the France Ukraine match, Pogba was wearing a special compression sleeve of French brand BV Sport. The ARX BV Sport sleeve, in example, is designed to ensure muscle retention. The vibrations are reduced while leaving you an optimal freedom of movement.

THE SECOND HYPOTHESIS IS SIMPLY THE STYLE
The second hypothesis is simply the style. A source close to the player told Footpack that "It's simply aesthetic".

Pogba Actually Now Allowed To Play With Contrasting White Sleeve In UEFA Matches

However, while it remains Pogba's secret why he is wearing a sleeve, it is sure that he did something illegal in the match against Portugal - he usually would not be allowed to wear a white sleeve with a navy shirt.

According to Chapter 10, article 41.01 paragraph I of the UEFA regulations, it is not allowed to wear equipment of contrasting colors.

"The articles of equipment worn on the playing field the legs and arms should be the same color as the corresponding item of the playing outfit (e.g. elbow pads or tape used on the arm should be the same color as the corresponding shirt sleeve and the knee pads should be the same color as the shorts)".

In addition, the very large Adidas logo on the front of the cuff was also against the regulations ""Medical equipment worn on the playing field must be a solid color and must not show any identification of the team or the manufacturer."

Volumiza said:

Rashford, Martial, Fred, McT and a lot of other players have been here in the same period and they all show us what they can do regularly now.

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No, they don't. They've been as inconsistent as the rest of the team in that period including Pogba, you just have different standards for him.

There's a reason why United is a streaky team.

Would anyone agree that his best form for us has been in the period immediately after Jose?

Posh Red said:

So you believe it’s fine for one person to make a sweeping statement, and say that none of the criticism aimed at Pogba has ever had any racial or prejudice undertones, despite the fact they couldn’t possibly know that?

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I just think accusations of religous/racial prejudice are extremely serious and if someone brings it up they need to give some evidence or reason for the accusation. Specific posters/media comments etc which have a racial or religious overtone. otherwise its a generic accusation against people who disagree with you.
If there has been anti-Islam/ racial overtones and im not saying there never has been, point it out specifically otherwise its just playing a card to close debate.

Volumiza said:

This is similar to people saying they feel sorry for him as the club has let him down. He's had every chance here to fulfil his capabilities, certainly as much as any other player currently here. As excited as I was when we signed him I cannot in all honesty say I feel he's made the very most of his time here.



So it's everything other than Pogbas fault right? Rashford, Martial, Fred, McT and a lot of other players have been here in the same period and they all show us what they can do regularly now. Why is it just Pogba that is still struggling to show what he is capable of? I can't help but think he doesn't show it because he has no interest in being here, which then perpetuates some peoples (mine included) dislike of him. 4 years is plenty of time regardless of managerial circumstances. Come on. 4 years is almost a quarter of his whole career. Maybe we've seen what he is capable of and it isn't what we need right now?

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Rashford is a striker who has ended up on the left of a front 3. Rashford isn't exactly filled with a number of differing skill facets and hasn't ultimately been played in his best position for a number of years now.

Martial spent a season or more sulking because he was playing on the right of a front 3. Now he finally got his number 9 back last season and guess what happened? Exactly..his most effective season, top scorer and player of the season.

Fred & McT? Do you want to search for the absolute crap people have been pilling on these two guys for the past x seasons?! You want to use them as examples? Play McT as an 8 or 10 and Fred as CB and see what happens...maybe that'll make it more obvious to the lesser minded.

Volumiza said:

This is similar to people saying they feel sorry for him as the club has let him down. He's had every chance here to fulfil his capabilities, certainly as much as any other player currently here. As excited as I was when we signed him I cannot in all honesty say I feel he's made the very most of his time here.



So it's everything other than Pogbas fault right? Rashford, Martial, Fred, McT and a lot of other players have been here in the same period and they all show us what they can do regularly now. Why is it just Pogba that is still struggling to show what he is capable of? I can't help but think he doesn't show it because he has no interest in being here, which then perpetuates some peoples (mine included) dislike of him. 4 years is plenty of time regardless of managerial circumstances. Come on. 4 years is almost a quarter of his whole career. Maybe we've seen what he is capable of and it isn't what we need right now?

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Those players have been inconsistent too. There hasn't been a single player post Fergie that has been an undeniable success. Every single player has been inconsistent. A couple of seasons ago I would've said De Gea, but we know what happened to his form too.

Even Fernandes, as good as he's been has been inconsistent so far.

All of this inconsistency points to a much bigger problem at United and it isn't Pogba.

R77 said:

Would anyone agree that his best form for us has been in the period immediately after Jose?

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I agree. If I remember correctly, he was playing in the position Bruno now occupies which he rarely (if ever) played under Jose.

R77 said:

Would anyone agree that his best form for us has been in the period immediately after Jose?

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Hard to disagree with that, but even so, that was a very short period out of 4 years.

Focusmate said:

I just think accusations of religous/racial prejudice are extremely serious and if someone brings it up they need to give some evidence or reason for the accusation. Specific posters/media comments etc which have a racial or religious overtone. otherwise its a generic accusation against people who disagree with you.
If there has been anti-Islam/ racial overtones and im not saying there never has been, point it out specifically otherwise its just playing a card to close debate.

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I don’t think you’ve understood the part of my post that @kouroux bolded to be honest.

I also see no issue in being introspective and questioning ourselves from time to time. We all have subconscious biases whether we like it or not, and there is no harm in assessing our views occasionally. It isn’t necessarily about blatant racism.

Idxomer said:

you just have different standards for him.

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That's the thing, I don't. I have the same standards for all players. Quality, commitment, effort etc ... it's pretty simple for me really.

UmbroDays said:

Rashford is a striker who has ended up on the left of a front 3. Rashford isn't exactly filled with a number of differing skill facets and has ultimately been played in his best position for a number of years now.

Martial spent a season or more sulking because he was playing on the right of a front 3. Now he finally got his number 9 back last season and guess what happened? Exactly..his most effective season, top scorer and player of the season.

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I get that but then you have to ask yourself the question ... why hasn't Pogba ended up where you think he should be? Why do you think we bought Bruno? WHy now have we bought VdB, who effectively plays the same position? If everyone else can nail down their spots, why can't Pogba?

UmbroDays said:

Fred & McT? Do you want to search for the absolute crap people have been pilling on these two guys for the past x seasons?! You want to use them as examples? Play McT as an 8 or 10 and Fred as CB and see what happens...maybe that'll make it more obvious to the lesser minded.

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I don't really care what people pile on Fred and McT, those two playing behind Bruno is my preferred midfield now.

KcB32 said:

I agree. If I remember correctly, he was playing in the position Bruno now occupies which he rarely (if ever) played under Jose.

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Volumiza said:

Hard to disagree with that, but even so, that was a very short period out of 4 years.

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I'll admit my memory is poor, but apart from a couple of games here and there that's the only time I can remember him looking like what we might have expected. I also remember having doubts about his on-field mentality very early on, not sure of the exact game. He was getting marked and pressed a lot and looked visibly upset. I'm kinda thinking out loud as much as anything, but experience tells us he can be a very good when he's got a point to prove though even that's inconsistent.

Very interested to see how he responds once his fitness is back near top level, even though I'm still not convinced in the long term.

Posh Red said:

I don’t think you’ve understood the part of my post that @kouroux bolded to be honest.

I also see no issue in being introspective and questioning ourselves from time to time. We all have subconscious biases whether we like it or not, and there is no harm in assessing our views occasionally. It isn’t necessarily about blatant racism.

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Ignoring the Pogba debate then fair enough with what you say on introspection - yes everyone has some unconscious bias.
I just dont like lazy accusations of prejudice when debating. - There is enough real prejudice around.
I just feel that if Pogba happened to be gay it would have been accusations of homophobia or if he were white then it would be accusations of anti French or xenophobia.
We need to stick to the debate on him as a footballer and these kinds of accusations should not be played as a card. It deflects from real prejudice

Focusmate said:

Ignoring the Pogba debate then fair enough with what you say on introspection - yes everyone has some unconscious bias.
I just dont like lazy accusations of prejudice when debating. - There is enough real prejudice around.
I just feel that if Pogba happened to be gay it would have been accusations of homophobia or if he were white then it would be accusations of anti French or xenophobia.
We need to stick to the debate on him as a footballer and these kinds of accusations should not be played as a card. It deflects from real prejudice

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Fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to reply. My initial issue was with posters saying ‘Pogba is ONLY ever criticised for his performances’. I don’t think that can be proved or is necessarily true either. I’ll leave it there though as I feel the thread is being taken somewhat off topic.

Focusmate said:

Ignoring the Pogba debate then fair enough with what you say on introspection - yes everyone has some unconscious bias.
I just dont like lazy accusations of prejudice when debating. - There is enough real prejudice around.
I just feel that if Pogba happened to be gay it would have been accusations of homophobia or if he were white then it would be accusations of anti French or xenophobia.
We need to stick to the debate on him as a footballer and these kinds of accusations should not be played as a card. It deflects from real prejudice

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Well said, good post and @Posh Red - introspection is very important, really good point.

While I do think that the constant criticism of Paul Pogba has racial undertones(no, it doesn't have to be said out loud for you to see it), due to a tendency for cultural appropriation and certain analyses by certain people of him, I think that's a conversation for another day.

At this point, he's still our player and we should support him and hope he reaches his best this season. The fact that people are calling one of our key players finished is shocking.

MattofManchester said:

and hope he reaches his best this season.

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Don't we all want this? Even though I'm not a Pogba fan, I always say that I'm happy to have my mind changed and have said many times that if he starts smashing in awesome performances, contributes to us moving forward and actually progresses with this new team without all the noise about transfers then there would be no problem.

R77 said:

Would anyone agree that his best form for us has been in the period im mediately after Jose?

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He was our best player in the 2016/17 while scoring in the final and winning the Europa League player of the tournament. Mourinho started to play him in a midfield two with Fellaini and we were battered 3 games in a row. Then Pogba was put in midfield 3 and we were unbeaten for 20+ games. the team only started to lose again when he was rested for Europa League semis.
Could Legitemately have ended up with a 20 assist season on the board without Wasteful finishing by Zlatan, Rashford etc

In 2017/18 he registered something like 12 assists even with 3 months out injured and even when Mourinho started dropping him Pogba answered by stopping City from humiliating us on their ground and winming the title at Etihad

.. before his injury we were 4-0 FC and top of the table and we dropped out of the title race when he was injured while being awful to watch and parking the bus during his injury in every big games.

His last two full seasons in the league 2017/18 and 2018/19 he put up a G/A of 38 from 62 apperances. Basically averaging a G/A every two games from midfield. Its true that after Mourinho left he was unstoppable in a midfield 3 in the LCM position but Pogba has always been our best performer when fit and never dropped below the top 3 players at the club. Its not like he was only good after Mourinho

Best game in a while... Good performance.

That was superb the kind of performance that everyone used to drool over when he was at Juve.

Played in his best position and played very well, I am not surprised. I want to see us continue with the diamond, but with McFred and Bruno.

Started it all today with that pass.

Top CL performance from him.

Great performance.. shocking how player play well when they get fit

First thing that was noticeable was the fitness levels. Much better which made things easier for him.
Honestly, Covid must have affected him rather seirously

Best performance in a long, long time. He looked interested and combined that with his footballing ability. What a difference.

kouroux said:

First thing that was noticeable was the fitness levels. Much better which made things easier for him.
Honestly, Covid must have affected him rather seirously

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either that or he finally got sick of coming onthe caf and reading the jokes about his work rate

Fantastic tonight.

worked very hard, battled everywhere but just as importantly showed his skill and power on the ball, a really top performance.

I guess it was his fitness lacking after all.

Outside of Rashford, is my MOTM. Put him on the left of Central midfield and he dominates. He was excellent today. Showed great energy and ability.

He was a lot better in the second as well, when he could drive into the box instead of out wide.

Composed and worked hard. Happy to see.

He was man of the match before Rashford made a mockery of the whole game.

Hope we stop restricting him deep. Brilliant tonight.

mu4c_20le said:

either that or he finally got sick of coming onthe caf and reading the jokes about his work rate

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Probably the latter then

Play him in his position and he plays well. Simple really.