Useless cnut can't even show up to his own press conference on time.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Another fecking lockdown what a joke. Absolutely killing people's livelihoods. I don't doubt that this virus is horrible and killing lots of people but there's plenty of other illnesses and conditions that kill people too. We can't just keep shutting everything down, people are going to be broke and out on the street if this carries on.
This exactly, using the half term would of been the perfect time to have a circuit breaker because the half term was obviously going to be an increase in spread.
Millions of kids going on holiday.
Government 'advise' not to travel when in Tier 3.. but did not enforce it. So how many millions went galivanting to low risk areas from high risk areas..
I get localised restrictions, makes little sense if an area has 1k cases and another 300miles away has 1 case. Just need to combine that with penalising peoole that leave the heavy restriction areas.
Held culpable to what measure? Seriously, do you think any government would do anything massively different? As far as I can see each country is facing similar situations and as far as I can see each country is resorting to similar actions and as far as I can see outcomes are pretty similar everywhere.
I know it’s easy to throw everything at those in charge but the responsibility to stop this massive surge in transmissions, in my view anyway, stop with us, the populace.
We’ve known how to reduce the spread since April, and it seems to me like large parts of our population have been so eager to live their lives normally that we find ourselves in this mess. I certainly don’t blame the government in isolation for this mess, most of my blame falls at the feet of idiots who just can’t understand the severity of the pandemic and the sacrifices we all will have to make for the next few months. I’m fine with it.
so that do you propose?
Unless UK population are willing to undergo severe loss of freedoms for 2 months with Wuhan style lockdown, then national lockdowns will remain a permanent feature of of UK life until we have mass vaccination.
Has there been an announcement yet or will there be?
Can't understand them not closing Universities. They acted as a super spreader in late September and just seems like a massive waste of time currently with students currently under student flat arrest for 9k + a year.
Surely the academic year could've been started in January and students could've cracked on with a couple of online lectures and reading lists at home in this present time?
Like everything else now it's neither stick or twist.
Surely the academic year could've been started in January and students could've cracked on with a couple of online lectures and reading lists at home in this present time?
Like everything else now it's neither stick or twist.
How can you say that?! It's been a disaster. The track and trace is shit, that's on them because Boris Johnson has given jobs to the boys and the person in charge is married to a Tory mp and has a track record of failures in other companies.
Closing retailers is just going to guarantee that people are going to queue up more come December when these stores reopen for Xmas shopping.
It was supposed to be 4pm. Then moved to 5pm and now 6.30pm.
You have the same access to the data that I do. It's just google. We know when countries re-opened their schools, we know when peaks in transmission happened, and we know when those two things didn't align. Just from two google searches per country. If you really wanted the answer to the question rather than trying to make a point, you'd be better off just googling these things for your own peace of mind. Instead it looks like you're only googling evidence that fits the narrative you want to put out there. But sure I'll pull up some numbers.
To pick up on your point about the scientific assessment from NI, I think it's worth clarifying a couple of things. They didn't say that closing schools would reduce the R rate by 0.5. They said it oould be as low as 0.2, or as high as 0.5. They gave a more confident prediction that secondary schools would a) be more likely to spread the virus, and b) be around 0.35. So if secondary schools are more likely to spread it, and their best estimate is 0.35 for them, then we can safely assume their estimate for primary schools is closer to 0.2. Very possibly lower. They also said in the same document that overall the assessment is provided with "low confidence, as unclear how much schools may contribute to community transmission." and other measures related to education are "low confidence, as remains unclear how infectious children may be." And their modelling on education settings was based on influenza, because as they said repeatedly, they haven't got any clear evidence on covid spreading in classrooms. Despite the fact that you believe it to be an obvious driver of this second wave, they can't find the evidence for it at all.
Pages 13-15 here, Geebs. The scientists aren't saying different things, they are just being misrepresented. You don't need to trust my words or his words, the advisers laid it out incredibly thoroughly there. The views from NI's expert are entirely consistent with the consensus that older teenagers in secondary school are more likely to spread it than young kids in primary school, and that there is no evidence that schools are hotbeds of transmission.
Test and trace needs to be given a massive kick up the backside. That won't solve everything but everyone's known it can be reasonably effective since mid June and they still can't get the system right.
Thank you!
Obviously being in Wales it’s a bit different but we might end up following England anyway.
I agree with locking down if that’s what the science dictates, it feels a little wrong that work continues but anything fun doesn’t? I get it but it just feels awful.
It sucks but if the numbers keep getting higher and higher it'll be a catastrophe on the health service. You have only have to read how doctors struggled with the first wave and the physical and mental impact it had on them.
Boris and Government were to blame for total inaction during January and February which cost UK 1000s of innocent deaths and massive impact on economy. Then we had Cummings.
Every decision since has been negatively impacted because of that. But Tories think Boris, Rishi and HealthCock did well.
Even now, it seems like taking the circuit breaker during half term could have lessened impact, but we are now facing a month lockdown instead.
Other countries have acted earlier and more firmly - pretty much more consistently since this pandemic took flight back in Spring. Its the constant dithering, and bizarre marginalisation of scientific consensus that has led to us having one of the highest death rates in the world. We had the chance to lockdown earlier and more briefly a few months ago (again, as per strong scientific advice), but of course the government dithered and dismissed it,
You're right in suggesting the blame should always be shared with the hordes of selfish, stubborn idiots within the population, but what do you expect when the PM decides to go all in with shielding his advisor who shamelessly flouts the rules while laughing at us from his rose garden.
Many more doctors will die in next 2 months
Those who are vulnerable and want to shield continue to do so and the rest take our chances and try to get on with our lives. Continue to be sensible with mask wearing/social distancing. Lockdowns just delay. I know so many people who have lost their jobs, this is such a desperate situation. Every day there are risks, if this is all over you could walk out in front of a bus and it kills you, sorry to be so morbid and if I sound callous but everyone has to die of something.
How's South Korea coping? Taiwan seems to be doing ok. Japan doesn't seem that badly affected.
We've bumbled along without effective planning for nine months. Dragged our feet going into the initial lockdown, failed to get the numbers down sufficiently to build and implement a workable track and trace strategy. We've failed to isolate cases. As always it's been too little, too late, piecemeal policy instead of joined up strategy.
There literally has never been anything in your lifetime that is as dangerous and spreads as quickly as this, nor has there been any illness that killed more people in a single month than covid in April...while we were in lockdown. It isn't comparable to your chance of getting hit by a bus.
Profiting off the Pandemic, corruption check.
One rule for us, another for them, check.
Reacting rather than proactive, check
Ignoring scientific advice, check
Yes it's an impossible situation but the government have been incredibly incompetent.
Governments all around the world are struggling and the tories have definetly made the odd good decision but it's always fell short.
Trying to find that twitter guy who does the a week in tory.. that is enough to make you want to thump a wall.
In none of my posts have I denied that aspects of our governments action or inaction have been great. Far from it. Just annoys me that people are so eager to condemn the government for the situation we’re in when it is us, the people, who are spreading this virus so freely by looking for ways to beat restrictions, looking to carry on as normal when we all know what Covid is and we all know what is necessary to stem the rise in infection. If everyone everywhere had been doing these things the virus wouldn’t be spiralling out of control, nothing to do with Tory governance.
Last I checked, hundreds of people don't die everyday in this country from bus collisions.
What's your solution to this then? Have you been under threat of redundancy in your job? I'm sure your mindset will shift somewhat if it was.
I agree, but it is up to us to do what we know, and have known all year and it just seems we are unable or unwilling to do it.
I'm fairly confident Dominic Cummings is calling the shots anyway. Johnson is just a puppet.
A segment of British people are just too selfish and cant be trusted for your strategy to work.
And during unprecedented global pandemic, losing your job is something 'to take your chances with', not many many other peoples lives.
And yes, your last line reads as extremely callous.
Ok well what's your solution to this then? Have you been at risk of redundancy and witnessed the impact this has on people's mental wellbeing?
You’re the one making the point. Back it up.
If the evidence used is based on influenza for schools then surely it’s based on that for everything? Even if we go with just the 0.35 for secondary schools that’s 7 times more than the close contact services they’ve shut. And ignores universities and primary school. The evidence is in the numbers. The only thing that changed in September was schools and universities opening.
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Again, all of that doesn’t matter in a way. We all know what Covid is, how it works, how it spreads and how we can stop it but all year I’ve seen idiots either fighting it, ignoring it or denying it. Now look where we are.
Government should be doing better to help out these businesses that are forced to close and more importantly the people that work there. They spent 12 billion on a dud track and trace system.
I think you're right. That's why they didn't sack him.
I think during a global pandemic it is a fairly safe bet to listen to your scientists!
Funny how Germany, France, Ireland leaders all made the decision at much lower infection rates than we have in the UK.
No doubt it would be a hard decision for UK leadership, but being led by a bunch of incompetents does not help the matter. They can't even get the time of a press conference right!
That’s all well and good, but it feels a little wrong to me to tell the vulnerable to suck it up and hide away, especially when it inevitably will reach them anyway.
How about we don’t take our chances and protect our health services who are already overwhelmed? We need to keep beds free and just carrying on with social distancing clearly isn’t enough, which as you can see by the fact we have basically done this since August isn’t sufficient. My partner works in a covid positive ward in the NHS and honestly it’s not great, the NHS is stretched. Do you want us to be like the USA?
Yes lockdown is to delay! Until we get a vaccine and we can manage things better.
He is right though. No evidence anywhere that under 12 year olds are a big problem. It has been told to you many times, but you just ignore it everytime and group all the school ages together.
It does matter, because he is not elected and is not a scientist.
Eithet way, the mixed messaging from the government has not helped the "idiot" factor has it?
Stay home in March, masks dont work, then it is your duty to go back to work and school, then eat out to help out, then masks do work, then work from home when possible (in September, ignoring Sage advice), then calling Starmer a political opportunist for asking the government to listen to scientists and have a circuit breaker lockdown, now, lockdown.
Simple.
Anyone been to a supermarket today? How was it?
There isn't a solution. We're in a pandemic. Some problems can't be solved, just managed, and a series of bad outcomes weighed up.
The problem with the virus isn't that it kills a lot of people. And it should be reiterated that it kills a shitload of people, even under the most absurd conditions. If it "only" killed 50,000 people while we've went through two lockdowns, and in between a shitload of restrictions, how many people do you honestly think it would have killed if we had just let it rip? We know, conclusively, it would have been magnitudes higher. Let's be a little ridiculous here and assume it "only" would have killed 100,000. Last year 63,000 people died from ischemic heart disease. The only thing that killed more was dementia. Covid might well kill more than either of them, despite the most insane efforts to prevent it from running out of control, and collapsing the health system. There is absolutely nothing in this world that is remotely as dangerous, and comparing it to getting hit by a bus just underlines the fact that you've been misled. People are planting those ideas in the papers for a reason.
The problem is how quickly it spreads. We already know that in two weeks' time twice as many people will be dying than they are now. If we didn't do anything at all, we would reasonably expect it to double again, and double again. These aren't theories, they've happened repeatedly across the world. There's no "option" to just open things back up and deal with it because there would be fewer doctors than people with life-threatening covid in a matter of weeks. Then things get real bad. Then it kills more people in a year than all other risk factors combined. And that would happen even though we had tools that we knew could prevent it from happening. At which point it becomes legitimately criminal. That is not an actual alternative, it's a weird fantasy invented by some folks at the Daily Mail and co.
I went earlier, it was actually fairly quiet considering, but I’m in wales so might be different.
Seems likely.
On that certain gaming forum we also lounge on - a few people in there all saying it was like Christmas / empty shelves again