He'd win the league with it. I think Pogba would be used as a sub or sold.
What would SAF do with this team?
- Thread starter manunited1919
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
One of the highlights of his time here along with his speech at the award ceremony (or was it Christmas party)! Priceless!92 under SAF there. He would also use Mata as second striker and Daniel James would be better player too.
Oh yes, the Christmas party. Drunk as a skunk he was.
Not really. He did a job.
100% I think he would play these two but the instructions would be completely different. Our midfielders in the past played the ball forwards because thats what Fergie demanded. I don't see much between McT and Fletcher, and to be completely honest Fred is a similar midfielder to Anderson, both players that Fergie gave a lot of time to. Don't forget that Fergie also played Park based purely on his industriousness on the pitch. Every team needs a balance of flair and industry.
Yes, we need to get the players from the back and midfield to move the ball forward more. Maguire has also got a habit of coming across the backline with the ball and then passing it back to De Gea. I close my eyes when this happens as I can see that some day he will be caught out by a speedy forward. McTominay and Fred are not good passers of the ball either. Zakaria or Soumare could do this job as Matic has got too slow.
I don't know what exactly SAF would do with this players but Mike Dean won't referee another game for United this season if SAF still in dugout for United after his performance yesterday.
I don't think you need to have a range of passing like Scholes / Pirlo to be able to play the ball 20-30 yards into the forwards. Fred and McT are definitely capable of that because they have been doing it in some games, maybe its a tactics thing when they don't do it. All of our forwards a capable of receiving the ball to their feet too. Really in a midfield of Fred, McT and Bruno I would be expecting Bruno to be the player that is making the most incisive passes anyway because he has better vision than Fred and McT.
Its also surprising that we don't see either of those players getting up the pitch to take some shots more often. So what if they aren't that good, the point is to force the opponent into having to push players out to them, which opens them up a little bit. When they sit it makes containing our front line very easy for the opposition. The basic pass and move principle gets lost sometimes and we just pass and don't keep moving. Pogba is one of the guiltiest of this, he will pass the ball and then drop back into space rather than running forward to allow us to maintain that forward momentum. Its not just Pogba but he seems to be the one that does it the most. It kills all of our attacking momentum when he does it.
Fletcher had produced 27 assists in his career. Do you know how many assists McT had done in the EPL? Here's a hint. He's got as many assists Fred does ie one a piece. If we assume that McT produces an assist every 63 EPL games then he'll reach Fletcher's 27 assists in 1701 matches. That's around the same amount of EPL games the combined amount of games played by Ryan Giggs (632), Paul Scholes (499), Gary Neville (400) and this McT (63) had played. So seriously, that's insulting towards Fletcher and I wasn't a great fan of his to start with.
Let's now have a look how Fletcher was utilised. At the beginning the Scottish was often tucked in the right wing. It was a stupid move but it allowed Sir Alex to discipline a young Ronaldo. If the Portuguese dribbled too much or decided to put his head down and run blindly to the corner flag then rest assured that he wouldn't play and Fletch would play instead. As time went by Scholes was starting to show signs of ageing and Carrick who was no Roy Keane in terms of workrate couldn't carry him on alone. Thus Fletcher was starting to get more games. However as said, Fletch was far from a headless chicken with zero creativity. The trio Fletch-Carrick-Park had 88 assists between them which is quite good for a rather defensive trio.
It's difficult to say how Sir Alex would act with this team without asking the man himself. However here's some educated guesses from my part
a- our team has some fantastic attacking talent but there's no exceptional talent like Ronaldo that's worth building a squad around him. Greenwood is the closest thing we have to that but I think Sir Alex would see him as a striker.
b- Sir Alex moved from having two tough as nails CMs (Ince-Robson, Ince-Keane, Keane-Butt) to a far more light weight CM. He then distributed the defensive weight across the board. Beckham, Valencia, Young/Park, Teveth and Rooney had more workrate then Kanchelskis, Cantona and a young Giggs
Therefore I think he'll do what he always done
a- give players proper coaching. The Ronaldo of the early years is nowhere near to the WC giant of the late United years. Sir Alex transformed him. Sir Alex could do the same to the current players
b-give players proper motivation. Sir Alex could turn donkeys like OShea, Cleverley and Phil Nev into semi decent cogs that proved instrumental at times. Cleverley added mileage to an ancient Scholes while Phil Nev still has Vieira hidden in his pockets. Sir Alex could do the same with these players
c- He would get rid of nuisances who hold the ball for too long (Pogba) and static players (Mata, Matic etc)
d- He would build a balanced midfield. The base of that team would be players who offers both creativity and workrate (Bruno and VDB). Fred would probably play behind them. He'll then play Rashford/Martial on the left only to balance the right with someone like Adama Traore. If Greenwood becomes a key player on the right then I can see Sir Alex moving Telles on the left flank and bring in Haaland.
e- Sir Alex would probably rely heavily on Cavani. He's the only proven scorer we've got. If the Uruguayan repays Sir Alex's trust then expect more crosses (Telles and in the long run Dalot as well). If Greenwood becomes our no 1 striker then 1 attacking wingback would suffice.
f- Balance will need to be found in defence as well. Lindelof and Maguire are too slow thus Tuanzebe would be used instead. AWB would be used as a FB/CB hybrid in the same way Wes was used. Telles would still be played as Sir Alex had always had at least 1 wingback who could move forward with the ball.
Regarding McT. Sir Alex would either use him as he used Nicky Butt/Phil Nev/Cleverley or else.....he's 6ft3, he's decent defensively, he's passionate......I wonder who gave Steve Clarke the idea of playing McT as CB.
I find it funny that those against Martial suggest he wouldnt be in the team at the same time say SAF would have this team winning the league.
For SAF to make this team win the league every player would have to be 10x better.
SAF would turn Martial/Rashford or Martial/Greenwood into a star partnership.
Martial is easily one of our most consistent in actually playing with the ball and pass and move.
A top manager gets players playing to their best. Martial at his best is incredible.
For SAF to make this team win the league every player would have to be 10x better.
SAF would turn Martial/Rashford or Martial/Greenwood into a star partnership.
Martial is easily one of our most consistent in actually playing with the ball and pass and move.
A top manager gets players playing to their best. Martial at his best is incredible.
SAF would win the league with this team or at least closely challenge for it.
McTominay wouldn't have stayed at the 1st team under SAF for more than one season, and that's if he was even able to make it out of the reserves.
He'd have us playing exciting, risk-taking football. Solksjaer, as much as he thinks that he's Fergie, has us playing like pussies.
Ferguson would probably have us in a 4-3-3, with Rashford and Martial more as wingers than forwards, telling them to take on players. Cavani would be a starter. Greenwood would correctly be nurtured and played only sparingly.
This is what a Ferguson team, with this current squad and everyone fit, would look like - and our style of play would be more aggressive than the shite we're seeing at the moment.
.............................. de Gea .................................
Wan-Bissaka ... Tuanzebe ... Maguire ... Telles
... van de Beek ... McTominay ... Fernandes ...
Rashford ................ Cavani ................. Martial
Ferguson would probably have us in a 4-3-3, with Rashford and Martial more as wingers than forwards, telling them to take on players. Cavani would be a starter. Greenwood would correctly be nurtured and played only sparingly.
This is what a Ferguson team, with this current squad and everyone fit, would look like - and our style of play would be more aggressive than the shite we're seeing at the moment.
.............................. de Gea .................................
Wan-Bissaka ... Tuanzebe ... Maguire ... Telles
... van de Beek ... McTominay ... Fernandes ...
Rashford ................ Cavani ................. Martial
Whoa. We're all on the same side here, so don't get me wrong, but a player like Scholes is on another level (and then some) to 'Fred and McT are definitely capable of that because they have been doing it in some games, maybe its a tactics thing when they don't do it.'
Fred and McT can hit the long ball to the isolated winger in space. Scholes could hit a wide player attacking space behind a fullback from a range of forty-fifty yards and time the offsides.
If you're up against a player like Scholes, you have to set your whole team up passively and things snowball from there.
He would sign a top class striker that would guarantee 30 goals a season like he always did and then he’d challenge. The team is better than were we our
It wouldn’t be this team. After blooding a few talented youngsters and making a couple of astute signings, Fergie’s team now would be:
Henderson
AWB Stones Maguire Williams
Sancho Rice Thiago Rashford
Kane Greenwood
Bench: DDG, Tuanzebe, Shaw, Bellingham, VdB, Lingard, Vardy
Why? Well, it’s a typical SAF team. Strong British core with many academy players in there, littered with world class foreign talent. Players we deem average now like Maguire, Stones and Williams would be world class defenders under the genius, and AWB would be brilliant at attacking under an actual attacking manager, not a half-arsed one. Meanwhile, Henderson would have displaced DDG by now, especially after some high profile gaffs last season. Even Fergie can’t stop an aging goalkeeper from having a natural organic decline. As for the front 6, these are all players SAF would have loved. The most disputable one is Thiago, but SAF actually did buy him for Moyes in 2013. Typical 4-4-2, with actual wing play and not just spamming close to a 100 crosses in.
As for the bench, same concept. Talented British lads (he rated Lingard btw before anyone says otherwise) and Vardy, who SAF would have loved. Then you have VdB who’d be a rotation option but would actually get minutes on the pitch. Lads like Grant, Laird, Smalling, Jones, Young, McT, Garner, Powell, Januzaj, Welbeck, Chicharito etc would make up the reserves, ready to step in whenever needed.
So, where would we finish with in the hypothetical scenario that Fergie managed this team and our rivals had the same team as they currently do bar the players in our team, like Thiago? Top obviously, for probably the 3rd season in a row. Would have won the CL the year Liverpool won it too. He’d have knocked PSG, Barca and then Pool out, before teaching Spurs how to win a trophy in the final.
Henderson
AWB Stones Maguire Williams
Sancho Rice Thiago Rashford
Kane Greenwood
Bench: DDG, Tuanzebe, Shaw, Bellingham, VdB, Lingard, Vardy
Why? Well, it’s a typical SAF team. Strong British core with many academy players in there, littered with world class foreign talent. Players we deem average now like Maguire, Stones and Williams would be world class defenders under the genius, and AWB would be brilliant at attacking under an actual attacking manager, not a half-arsed one. Meanwhile, Henderson would have displaced DDG by now, especially after some high profile gaffs last season. Even Fergie can’t stop an aging goalkeeper from having a natural organic decline. As for the front 6, these are all players SAF would have loved. The most disputable one is Thiago, but SAF actually did buy him for Moyes in 2013. Typical 4-4-2, with actual wing play and not just spamming close to a 100 crosses in.
As for the bench, same concept. Talented British lads (he rated Lingard btw before anyone says otherwise) and Vardy, who SAF would have loved. Then you have VdB who’d be a rotation option but would actually get minutes on the pitch. Lads like Grant, Laird, Smalling, Jones, Young, McT, Garner, Powell, Januzaj, Welbeck, Chicharito etc would make up the reserves, ready to step in whenever needed.
So, where would we finish with in the hypothetical scenario that Fergie managed this team and our rivals had the same team as they currently do bar the players in our team, like Thiago? Top obviously, for probably the 3rd season in a row. Would have won the CL the year Liverpool won it too. He’d have knocked PSG, Barca and then Pool out, before teaching Spurs how to win a trophy in the final.
SAF is the greatest manager of all time. He had an amazing ability to adapt to new challenges and get the best out of his players.
Having said that, I rate all of his title winning teams significantly above our current team. Most of his runner-up teams as well. People are seriously underestimating the players we've had throughout the years.
Having said that, I rate all of his title winning teams significantly above our current team. Most of his runner-up teams as well. People are seriously underestimating the players we've had throughout the years.
PSG ? AWB / Fred / Axel were all better than him.
Id happily argue that Lindelof was up there with all of them but then we could argue about how to pronounce ‘scone’ and it will be equally futile.
Scon
He would find a way to make us consistent.
He would sign two wingers and a defensive midfielder and an elite striker.
Pogba wouldn’t play again (says me who sticks up for him most of the time
)
He would sign two wingers and a defensive midfielder and an elite striker.
Pogba wouldn’t play again (says me who sticks up for him most of the time
)Players would do what they were told because they wanted to play here, for him, and wanted to win. Anybody who forgot that was quickly sidelined and shipped out. Players like Pogba and his agent would have been long gone.Sign Dele Alli according to Mourinho.
I think even the greatness of SAF would struggle to wrap his around the modern player. Social media was just starting to take off when he retired. Seeing how vocal Rio, Evra, Scholes and Neville are over the past few years, it’s incredible that he was able to keep them relatively tightlipped during his time in charge. I would never have known Evra is the way he is without his Instagram presence. We saw glimpse of Rooney’s idiocy on Twitter circa 2011/2012. But that didn’t last long.
If he were still in charge, we would have made sure he has a top assistant coach next to him to help on the tactical side of the game. Man management, motivation and leadership were his key skills. His mere presence and the players knowing that he’s unsackable would help keep them toeing the line.
Unfortunately i don't think even he himself could do any of that if he were entering the game now. He needed 20+ years of being at the absolutely top to get that level of power.
I also don't think there are any clubs that players will make sacrifices to play for anymore. We have definitely lost that appeal, and Barcelona and Madrid are a shadow of their former selves where players would fall over themselves to go there.
I think the OP is specifically asking what he would do with this team and not who he would have bought or sold. On that premise, I think he would undoubtedly be challenging for the league and probably winning it.
Treble. Easily.
Think you are way off the mark here. McTominay is super valuable if used effectively throughout the season. Fergie often pulled in Butt (who granted is a better play) to play alongside Keane when he needed more physicality.
You didn't read what I said. Its the 20-30 yard passes that they can execute.
You don't need to tell me how Fletcher was used, I'm a United supporter, I watched his entire career. At his base he was used for his running and his ability to break up the oppositions play with that running. 27 assists in an entire career is feck all, and its not the part of his game I was suggesting McT has in common, but McT could easily get 27 assists in his career at United, he's only 23!
Since we're on the subject McT has scored 6 in 3 years for United, Fletch managed 18 in in 12 years.
Regarding the bolded part: I did.
But I am:
a. drunk
b. extremely hypersensitive to any post regarding Scholes' passing ability.
Forgive me.
Yea, the quality of our overall squad is as good as our 12/13 team. Would you agree?
I don't think you need to have a range of passing like Scholes / Pirlo to be able to play the ball 20-30 yards into the forwards. Fred and McT are definitely capable of that.
Perfect. This is exactly how SAF would use this line-up. In fact I also feel Pogba would play better because otherwise he would be under fire. We lack a coach who loves his players enough to yell at them and get the best out of them. SAF teams had players who regardless of the formation would go out there and do the best in their ability. These days we don't look like a Man United team at all. To gain just 1 point in 4 games at home and to lose 3 games is ridiculous in his books and the players would receive treatment accordingly. No players where bigger than the club or SAF himself. These players are ruthless and don't deserve any respect as of now. They need to be pushed hard in training.
Ah, ok you're not getting it. Never mind.
No I get it, you didn't read what I posted and jumped to a conclusion that was wrong. Ok, move on, keep drinking.
Nope. You're the one not getting that what I posted was regarding a larger framework and someone was graciously acknowledging that what you posted was regarding a more granular aspect of what you were arguing with another poster.
Protip: learn to recognize when someone's on your side.
With this current squad?
We would DOMINATE the League...and in a decent right winger, and we'd be fighting it out at the top in Europe.
Fergie was one of a kind
We would DOMINATE the League...and in a decent right winger, and we'd be fighting it out at the top in Europe.
Fergie was one of a kind
I don't know you age mate.
Fletch and McT are passionate players but skill wise they are different. My criticism with Fletcher back then was that he was a jack of all trades and master of none. He could do anything without excelling in anything (ie in a midfield that had Carrick and Scholes in it). McT is a purely defensive player. He struggles in anything outside of that domain. McT would dream of having Fletcher's skillset and Fletcher would walk in our midfield without breaking sweat
Last edited:
Not for me . Our best team has Matic and VDB in it not McT and Fred
An underappreciated strength of SAF is his ability to turn players on a budget into real United players, and many of them performed weekly although they were not considered the core first eleve, while also changing player's position effectively.
A then 35 year old Teddy Sheringham, Park Ji Sung (a marketing gimmick I thought initially), Tom Cleverley, John O'Shea, Antonio Valencia (only Wigan experience that time) all were able to perform when called upon. Even David Bellion and Alex Butner looked decent under him. And, Scholes, Smith and Giggs had their positions changed.
Now we have too many idle players sitting around doing nothing while the team requires holes to be patched. Under SAF, could Rojo be used as a decent attacking full back? Could Lingardino be used as a deep lying playmaker? Would Dan James be successfully slotted into both wings? All these would be possible under him.
A then 35 year old Teddy Sheringham, Park Ji Sung (a marketing gimmick I thought initially), Tom Cleverley, John O'Shea, Antonio Valencia (only Wigan experience that time) all were able to perform when called upon. Even David Bellion and Alex Butner looked decent under him. And, Scholes, Smith and Giggs had their positions changed.
Now we have too many idle players sitting around doing nothing while the team requires holes to be patched. Under SAF, could Rojo be used as a decent attacking full back? Could Lingardino be used as a deep lying playmaker? Would Dan James be successfully slotted into both wings? All these would be possible under him.