There is no doubt he has his favourites and that's always a dangerous thing as a manager
There’s a feeling of inevitability about Ole losing his job
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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I agree he has laid some green shoots of recovery and has given us a couple of great memories however he's showing he's out of his depth and now is the time to move him on before the foundations he's laid come crumbling down.
I will acknowledge he's got a bit better at timings for his subs eg half time changes but he's too slow to make in game changes early on- for example Wednesday, yes the first goal was just the players being so stupid it's untrue, however Ba kept getting left on his own in acres of space- you react to this and make at least someone stay back with him, it was the same with the Tottenham game, Shaw kept ending up in a centre back position (perhaps to cover Maguire who has been poor?) So there was acres of space down the left which Tottenham kept exploiting and Ole was too slow to react to this. He's a little bit the case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, by the time he reacts to something, it's too late to salvage.
I've said this all along, I think he's too nice. Absolutely nothing wrong with being nice BUT you've got to have a nasty streak that can put a rocket up the players if they aren't performing. If you look at the likes of Pep, Sir Alex, Klopp and even Bielsa at Leeds, they have great relationships with the players who would run through walls for them BUT those players sure as hell know if they're underperforming. I agree the players need to be held to account, the massive wages are a problem they can stink the place out repeatedly but still earn ££££ per week but the manager is also responsible. Do we analyse poor performances? The fact we are struggling with the same issue eg low block teams for so long now is another problem I have you think they'd realise this and have plans and coaching in place to fix it again do we analyse performances?
I don't think the Everton game will change anything, Ed Woodward won't want to admit his experiment has failed yet
I will acknowledge he's got a bit better at timings for his subs eg half time changes but he's too slow to make in game changes early on- for example Wednesday, yes the first goal was just the players being so stupid it's untrue, however Ba kept getting left on his own in acres of space- you react to this and make at least someone stay back with him, it was the same with the Tottenham game, Shaw kept ending up in a centre back position (perhaps to cover Maguire who has been poor?) So there was acres of space down the left which Tottenham kept exploiting and Ole was too slow to react to this. He's a little bit the case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, by the time he reacts to something, it's too late to salvage.
I've said this all along, I think he's too nice. Absolutely nothing wrong with being nice BUT you've got to have a nasty streak that can put a rocket up the players if they aren't performing. If you look at the likes of Pep, Sir Alex, Klopp and even Bielsa at Leeds, they have great relationships with the players who would run through walls for them BUT those players sure as hell know if they're underperforming. I agree the players need to be held to account, the massive wages are a problem they can stink the place out repeatedly but still earn ££££ per week but the manager is also responsible. Do we analyse poor performances? The fact we are struggling with the same issue eg low block teams for so long now is another problem I have you think they'd realise this and have plans and coaching in place to fix it again do we analyse performances?
I don't think the Everton game will change anything, Ed Woodward won't want to admit his experiment has failed yet
Not to mention against Arsenal. A change was desperately required at half-time; almost everyone saw a goal was coming for them.
Wasn't Klopp pressing before getting a sweeper keeper? Klopp would press if he had a snail in goal.
I think he’ll cling on so long as you manage to make top 4. Finish outside those places, and I can’t see Woodward sticking with him.
Of course there’s always the potential for Woodward to get spooked if there’s a run of bad results resulting in a firing and appointment of Pochettino in short order.
Of course there’s always the potential for Woodward to get spooked if there’s a run of bad results resulting in a firing and appointment of Pochettino in short order.
Even though we won at the weekend i have been expecting him to be sacked before our next game. It's a shame but i have a feeling Ed is worrying about mising out on Pochettino
Going by the United boards history in sackings, Ole's fate will only be determined when it is mathematically improbable (or 'impossible' if they are feeling generous) to attain CL qualification, which I personally think is a ridiculous requisite.
I believe advancing in the CL is less of a priority than being in it. So technically, a group stage exit from the CL would probably matter less to this board than a 5th place finish in the league as far as sackings go.
At the end of the day, it is the revenue stream that matters and if results on the pitch threaten to cut that off drastically, we might see a new manager. There isn't going to be an internal mutiny against Ole so performance is the key factor here.
Our board has always been reactionary rather than strategically preemptive. This is fact.
I believe advancing in the CL is less of a priority than being in it. So technically, a group stage exit from the CL would probably matter less to this board than a 5th place finish in the league as far as sackings go.
At the end of the day, it is the revenue stream that matters and if results on the pitch threaten to cut that off drastically, we might see a new manager. There isn't going to be an internal mutiny against Ole so performance is the key factor here.
Our board has always been reactionary rather than strategically preemptive. This is fact.
At this time there is nothing inevitable about his departure. But that's incompetency on the part of the Board unless they are looking at Naggelsman or Marco Rose. Which case he will be still here until the end of the season.
Or maybe that's just the way most job agreement goes. You're given chance to attain your target.
Comeback happens you know. Ole last year was a prime example. We're midtable all season and 3rd at the end.
How would you propose? 10 games in no top 4 = sack?
Still think December will be the month where he'll be judged on how well he navigates those fixtures. The next two games are very winnable (WBA and Istanbul at home) and although Southampton are doing well I'd still expect United to get at least a draw.
The games in December will come thick and fast and there's some very tough fixtures in there in a very congested schedule. I don't think there's much chance of Ole being saved by another Bruno type signing in January but I think if he's in and around the Top 4 he'll have the job for the rest of the season (unless/until top 4 becomes mathematically impossible).
The games in December will come thick and fast and there's some very tough fixtures in there in a very congested schedule. I don't think there's much chance of Ole being saved by another Bruno type signing in January but I think if he's in and around the Top 4 he'll have the job for the rest of the season (unless/until top 4 becomes mathematically impossible).
Sancho will be the January signing to save Ole this time?
Managers have been sacked with little chance to reach their objectives it's nothing new. We all know the major reason we went from 6th to 3rd last season was because we had more quality in the second half of he season compared to the first half with Bruno and Ighalo in January and Rashford and Pogba back from injuries post restart.
If we underperform and struggle the first half of this season without any major injuries then he has to go as odds will be high we won't make top 4 (minimum requirement) and there won't be any January signing to save us
It's always a gray area, unless you go to the extreme : like losing 10 games in a row
Whatever imaginary line the board are drawing it will always be just that, imaginary.
And there's several factors you'll have to consider:
1. Why wasted 10M compensation just to fire the manager 1 - 2 month earlier? It's not about being skint, it's just logical
2. Lawsuit : I'm not sure what's in their contract but managers can demand their firing unlawful and open up for a potential PR disaster
3. The Fans : Ole is fans favorite, and he's proven to be quite erratic in his form. One patch he's winning 15 in a row, the other patch he's losing alot
4. Say december and we're 6th with 4 pts away from top 4. Firing the manager and replacing him with another manager with no prep time etc is not always the best solution
5. Not many managers would want to take over midterm, most good ones don't
6. Then there's a matter of availability, and your target manager are bound into contract with other clubs or probably a non compete clause
7. PR, if you fire Ole too soon or too fast according to the fans can be negative to the club.
8. A combination of the above.
At least with top 4 gone, you have the excuse, and it can minimize the fans protest.
If they truly do not have trust left for Ole to turn things around, firing him quickly and replacing him soon might just savor the season in time. Right now we are still just 8 points from the top with 1 game to play, we still have a chance to achieve something this season if we sort ourselves soon enough.
People over complicate things. We took a punt on Ole and he clearly isn't a top manager. All this beating around the bush just wastes time.
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I don't see things as black and white, nor I believe that the board don't trust him. They trusted him with 350M and 3 years of paying his salary. So I think whatever it is they see in Ole they'd really wish and thought he could be successful.
Plus, mathematically we're 2 games away from topping the table, so it's too early to fire him. Again what's mathematically too early and what I think too late is 2 different things. But still, if ole win our next 2-3 PL games things would look so much different. So in a way I understand why our board always leave it till top 4 are mathematically impossible. Even if their reasoning is based on logic and not football accument
Do you think Calum Wilson is good enough for us? Sometimes things are black and white. (Not by that much of margin of course)
Mathematically Yadda Yadda. We keep clinging on the hope of possibly achieving mediocrity.
I get where you’re coming from. I really want to see Ole succeed but every time I feel we’ve turned a corner, results seem to go pear shaped.
The comeback last season whilst impressive was also due to Leicester City’s total collapse, there was a good slice of fortune about it.
With a clown like Woodward anything’s possible. As a fan I’d find it hard to sack Ole but the club comes 1st and unfortunately he never was good enough to manage United. He’s had enough time to prove himself, the only thing he’s bought is he’s changed the environment from a poisonous one what Mourinho left to a more positive one and that’s just down to Ole’s personalty. Unfortunately that’s not enough to save he’s job so yes it’s just a matter of time.
It’s going to be a sad moment which I think of all the managers that got sacked Ole’s will be the hardest one...
It’s going to be a sad moment which I think of all the managers that got sacked Ole’s will be the hardest one...
I find Jose actually cared about having a winning mentality, hence he pushed his players hard.
Ole on the other hand are too chitty chatty with first name basis, players like Pogba aren't giving him any respect. It won't be long before Bruno got pissed and starts to take matters into his own hand.
One, I dont really understand why so many people on here seem to know what goes on in the dressing room. It's like when people say Ole is too nice. Why,cos he isn't a knob in interviews ? No one knows what he is like behind closed doors.
And back to this thing about not having a winners mentality. The guy was part of one of the most successful sports teams of all time. He scored in the final moments of a Champions league final to secure the treble in a match we had been losing for most of it. You don't lose that mentality. His ability as a coach might not match his ambition , but I'm sure he has a winners mentality.
Why?
Because Pogba still don't give a feck
That's why. I don't know what happens behind closed door, i only see what's on the field.
And no, scoring a winner doesn't mean you have a winner mentality as a manager.
The last game against Chelsea is a good example, he has no ambition. Any winners would risk it all and go for the win, we're 15th on the table, we have nothing to lose, but Ole plays for a draw. That's not a winner mentality
Btw, Most of ex United managers plays under the same winning team, Gary turns to shit, Scholes, Keane, playing with the 1999 fabled class doesn't make you a good manager, or a guaranteed winner.
Oh yeah, cause Pogba gave Jose loads of respect apparently
Nope.Oh yeah, cause Pogba gave Jose loads of respect apparently
But Jose got the sacked because he's accussed of being toxic, while Ole is being lauded as the one who breaths positivity.
Positive? He smiles alot on the camera, throws a few lines about "old ways" but the way our team performing is still abysmal, this is not a winning team.
Of course its not a winning team, there are very few players in the squad that have never been winners! Fans really need to stop overrate United players!
He didn't just score a winner though, did he ? You've boiled down my comment the the most simple part. I wasn't talking about the actual goal, but the mentality to keep battling until we got it. And not just that time. Many, many times, that is just an example.
If that is your mentality, it's the way you're wired. You don't suddenly change because you're a manager. So basically any manager who doesn't attack constantly is not a winner ? You have to be Bielsa to be a winner now ?
Being a winner is about being pragmatic as well. That Chelsea performance was awful, but I can see why he did it. We needed to reset after an awful start. Being 15th in the table after a handful of games is not a nothing to lose situation. You make out as if we were sat in the relegation zone with two games left to play.
No he will still be at least £108mill and maybe even more. That ship has sailed as that kid Traore will be here for the RW.
So Ole is a winner?
Let me ask you, what sort of winning mentality has he shown in managerial terms?
Other than playing counter attack against the big teams and literally being a game raiser he has shown nothing that made me consider man he's a winner.
Look, I have no problem with being pragmatist, 3pts is 3pts, but all this "he's a winner he bleeds red" crap are just that, gimmick crap that you associate with players you like
God the saved by Bruno signing is so irritating. Was pep saved by signing laporte? Stronger argument could be made that ole was out in hot water by delaying the signing of Bruno by 6 months, and if he got Sancho this year and topped the table over the seco d half of the season (what happened last year for those with short memory, topped the table) then it would just show again that the board need to have backed him... All fairly unlikely this time around haha but it would be the exact same, wouldn't be 'sancho saving his job'. Actually the most childish narrative I think that exists on this forum
You're doing what so many people do here though. You ask what has he done, then say , other than the things he has done.
What has Ole done to show he is a winner ?
Other than battering Leipzig, PSG, City, Chelsea, etc ?
Yeah, other than that.
I'm not saying he is a top top manager. I'm not saying he is a serial winner. I'm just saying I believe he has the winners mentality thats all. Even if we say, well all he has done is game raise against better teams and come out with a result, is that not a winners mentality ?
Did Vince Vaughan's team in Dodgeball not have a winners mentality ? It's a poor example (wouldn't like to be compared to them haha) but what you are using against him here is literally an example of what you say he hasn't got.
This is a very interesting point. We had conceded 6 the week before in the PL and 3 the week before that. So it is understandable for a manager to go defensive against another rival.
Are you saying Chelsea lack winning mentality too? Because they played worse than us.
Also are you saying Pep and Klopp lack the winning mentality because in the second half they played for the draw against each other?
We've also been battered by Crystal Palace, Brighton Albion, Tottenham Hotspur, and recently being outplayed by a fecking Turkey side most would have problem spelling their name.
But sure, you big up his win as if it's a tactical masterpieces whoop whoop, but when Ole lose shamefully chalked that on "it's on the player/board/fitness/etc"
I don't follow Chelsea, but i never hear their fans calling him "Winners" either.
We're the only team that wax lyrical on our massively under performing manager and made him seems like he's Sir Alex Ferguson Mk2
Ole at the wheel, 5 years plan, restructuring, cleaning up the great mess, 10 years plan, he'll bring back united ways of old, etc
I love for all that to come true, but for now it's nothing but empty praises.
I am baffled by this and how many people talk about it like its an actual thing and an issue
do other managers go around saying Mr. Kane or Mr. Messi? It's utter shite, so many other reasons to bash Ole, how about focusing on them. The irony of you then saying Bruno in this post too, bit chitty chatty.I am not saying Ole is the best manager, I wouldn't complain if he is replaced but I am not going to point fingers for the sake of it because its a trend. Look at the bigger picture.
No manager after conceding 9 goals at home will go attacking against another very good attack. That is naive and dumb.
I would love for us to play attacking football every game, but the Chelsea game I understand why it was defensive.
I have no problem with how he calls his player, each manager has their own style.I am baffled by this and how many people talk about it like its an actual thing and an issue
As long as it works, he can call them by whatever he likes, Mr. Pink Mr. White. I don't really care.
It's good that you build rapport with your player, but if that's all you got going you're not a good manager. A good manager needs to get the max out of their player, if being nice is the way so be it but that doesn't mean that being nice is the only way to go. SAF was well known for his hairdryer in public
You have zero idea of what happens behind closed doors, why bother making things up and focus on the fact what we see is often utter crap.
We're Man Utd and supposedly the biggest club in England, we should be challenging for the title at least in any managers 2nd year. If we had proper owners then they should be expecting the manager to be challenging for the top after 2 years in charge, not flirting with maybe we will make top 4. Ole hasnt improved us one bit position wise from where we were this time last season. I would give him until December and if we are no closer to the top then we should be looking at another manager.
I have no idea, hence I see it as it is based on what i see on the field, a very mediocre manager that under performs badly.
I'm not the one claiming he's a winner that got what it takes to take us back the promised land and all other hyperbole that they used to describe ole.
I don't see a winning team with winner mentality, I see players with no passion strolling around at times, I see disjointed teams. I see nothing that suggest this team has what it takes character wise to take it to the next level
But Arsenal never scored from open play?