Carrick is one of Man United, England's most underrated players ever

RussellWilson · Nov 10, 2020

Let's forgot talking about all his attributes and what made him so good. He was the main midfielder in Man United's most successful period in our entire history, what more proof is needed to prove how good he was?

Partners changed, he had Scholes, Fletcher, Giggs, Anderson, Hargreaves but he made every one of them work.

The man anchored a midfield of him and Giggs in a 442 to a champions league final. That's only possible because he his the most positionaly astute midfielder I have ever seen. We get over run with with 2 people doing an anchor job and full backs that don't attack.

KD6-3.7 · Nov 10, 2020

perfectly fine player. Good to have if his surrounded by world class players but his inability to really dominate the big games was a huge weakness. I always felt a weakness of SAF was handling teams who press high up the field especially in his later years when our squad was getting weaker but Carrick was often the player who crumbled the most in those games.

Ibi Dreams · Nov 10, 2020

Some of those players were playing totally different positions anyway. Gerrard and Toure in particular were nothing like him at all

The biggest testament to his ability is that he kept us going and competing at top level when we basically had no other midfielders worth a damn.

It is hard to think of a more underrated English player to be honest.

Theonas · Nov 10, 2020

KD6-3.7 said:
perfectly fine player. Good to have if his surrounded by world class players but his inability to really dominate the big games was a huge weakness. I always felt a weakness of SAF was handling teams who press high up the field especially in his later years when our squad was getting weaker but Carrick was often the player who crumbled the most in those games.

How many midfielders could handle the type of synchronized press that we started to see post 2009 and that Carrick had to deal with playing in mostly a midfield of two? The guy played in a team that always used wide wingers and mostly focused on quick transitions especially in the big games. Apart from Modric, I really can't think of a midfielder who could handle that type of press.

Lynty · Nov 10, 2020

Ibi Dreams said:
Some of those players were playing totally different positions anyway. Gerrard and Toure in particular were nothing like him at all

The biggest testament to his ability is that he kept us going and competing at top level when we basically had no other midfielders worth a damn.

It is hard to think of a more underrated English player to be honest.

But that's a kop out. You can't define every player to a role, style and attribute. It's too specific. You need some form of generalisation.

Let's split his career into 3:

Pre-2009
2009-2013
Post 2013

Given unlimited funds to build an all star team to dominate world football. Your midfield wouldn't include Carrick, no matter which period. Not even on the bench.

Berbasbullet · Nov 10, 2020

Some of his midfield partners were completely pants, his positioning was so good! Made stupid amounts of interceptions, excellent passer, especially between the lines.

Only real criticism I have is he didn’t often take games by the scruff of the neck but it’s a nit pick, and he also had a long period where he was woefully out of form for his standards.

I remember some of the rubbish about him not passing forwards even though the stats didn't back that up at all, he also got a lot of internet hate very unfairly when he was never the problem with our midfield.

Eire Red United · Nov 10, 2020

He’d walk into our team now in his prime and probably most other teams in the world

Theonas · Nov 10, 2020

Lynty said:
But that's a kop out. You can't define every player to a role, style and attribute. It's too specific. You need some form of generalisation.

Let's split his career into 3:

Pre-2009
2009-2013
Post 2013

Given unlimited funds to build an all star team to dominate world football. Your midfield wouldn't include Carrick, no matter which period. Not even on the bench.

Why do we need some form of generalization? Maybe when making best of lists or those silly who would get into which team games but those are nothing more than fun exercises. They are not an accurate way of actually evaluating footballers. There is no reason why we can't distinguish between the two.

Falcow · Nov 10, 2020

Lynty said:
I always disagree with this topic.

He was a very good player and those who understand football (especially how midfield has changed over the last 30 years) recognised his importance.

But was he ever among the top10 of his period? A period that included:

Xavi
Iniesta
Fabregas
Seedorf
Pirlo
Yaya Toure
Gattuso
Modric
Ballack
De Rossi
Schweinsteiger
Gerrard
Vidal
Senna
Khedria
Alonso
Cambiasso
Zenetti
Mascherano
Essien
Busquets

I think he gets a deserved amount of recognition. I wish we had him at his peak right now. He's well loved at the club and respected by knowledgeable neutral fans.

Claiming he was better than a lot of players listed above, is pure bias.

Easily as good as those in bold and arguably better. Not comparable to some of the others as totally different type of players.

Modric, Pirlo, Alonso and Busquests played a similar role to Carrick, he was nowhere near as good as those 4.

Forevergiggs1 · Nov 10, 2020

Paul_Scholes18 said:
For United midfielders over time he is probably top 3 though. Him and Scholes are the best since PL started if you count Giggs as a winger.
I can't judge midfielders before that, but given the record we have had under him he probably deserve to be top 3 over our full history.

Surely you can't be saying Carrick was better than Keane?? Carrick was a good player, nothing more nothing less. He had an outstanding season in 2012/2013 when he and RVP basically won us the title by themselves (with a little help from SAF of course) but I don't think you'd find anyone else thinking he deserves to be 1 of the top 3 midfielders in our history.

norm87cro · Nov 10, 2020

First of all I thought that was a great read. Even if I'm not 100 percent with all that is said I can respect a good explained argument. His positioning was definetly a plus and anybody who watched United in that time will say the same.
But there has to be a but. During his time at United the team went from a classsic 4 4 2 to a more fluid 4 3 3 with the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Saha, Berbatov and Tevez playing upfornt. It kind of masked our midfield problems or should I say the lack of midfield intent in that time. The RVN situation was down to Fergie putting his trust in Rooney and Ronaldo, not Carrick. The Wigan final being a prime example. The 05/06 season was already a promising sign of things to come.
On a final note I don't think Carrick was overrated or underrated. He was a very good midfielder with better teammates (Rooney, Ronaldo, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra and VDS) who never really had a presence of a Keane or Vieira, the pure offensive talent of a Lampard or Scholes or the pure will of a Robson or Gerrard.

Denis79 · Nov 11, 2020

Most underrated ever is a bit of a stretch.

amolbhatia50k · Nov 11, 2020

David_azul16 said:
I dont know if Carrick was one of te best players of that team, but what im completly sure he was one of the most important players and one of the first names of the team sheet

Of course you do. He wasn't.

KetilOwren88 · Nov 11, 2020

Not so much underrated at United. We know what he ment to us, but criminally underrated in England. I ment it was Xavi saying he would be much more appriciated in Spain. Laughable really. Can probably say something simular about Scholes too.

Tel074 · Nov 11, 2020

Remembering Carrick is also remembering the vast majority of United fans saying he's shit and all he does is pass side ways and backwards .
I think it took quite a while for the Muppets to realise his importance to the team

meamth · Nov 11, 2020

Tel074 said:
Remembering Carrick is also remembering the vast majority of United fans saying he's shit and all he does is pass side ways and backwards .
I think it took quite a while for the Muppets to realise his importance to the team

This is true, no joke.

SadlerMUFC · Nov 11, 2020

Carrick was one of my favourite players, however he was NOT a favourite of many United supporters. I've seen more talk about how good he was after the fact than I saw while he was playing. United and England fans wanted him to be more like Gerrard and Lampard and score a bunch of goals. They didn't understand how a guy can be a holding midfielder and not run around crushing people like Scott Parker. I can guarantee that many of the people who talk now about how good he was didn't say the same when he was playing. He was never truly appreciated until after he retired. But I still remember United supporters talking crap about him because Xavi and Iniesta got the better of him. Sorry folks, but Xavi and Iniesta got the better of everyone...

tenpoless · Nov 11, 2020

Tel074 said:
Remembering Carrick is also remembering the vast majority of United fans saying he's shit and all he does is pass side ways and backwards .
I think it took quite a while for the Muppets to realise his importance to the team

I think most started to realize how good he was after Scholes left. At some point we had Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney playing together and he was just not shiny enough in comparison.

I think in 2012 his contribution could be seen clearly regardless of the arrival or RvP, the team was not full of superstars. He was basically a one man midfield in most games. Carrying his other midfield 'partner'. I would trade Pogba for him if it's possible.

UNITED ACADEMY · Nov 11, 2020

noodlehair said:
He wasn't underated for us. He had a couple of very good seasons and was generally a very good player, but not in the same class as Scholes, Keane etc...although better than any midfielder we've had since. That was generally recognised though. He also had a couple of poor seasons where he seemed to lose his confidence and would play well within himself.

Definitely under appreciated for England considering that the likes of Gareth Barry were routinely selected ahead of him, but then it wouldn't be an England team if it was one where all the best players are picked and played in their positions. England didn't think Paul Scholes was good enough to play in central midfield and spent years trying to build an attack around the idea that Andy Carroll/Peter Crouch are taller than people who can actually play football.

He was definitely underrated in a sense of United fans also don’t see and recognise how good he was. Lot of United fans underrated him because first, he is not Roy Keane which a player you can’t easily find and second, they disappointed that he got bullied by Barcelona trio Busquest, Xavi & Iniesta twice in final which stupid thing to even think that it’s fair for one man in midfield paired with Anderson or 38 years old Giggs could do something against those three together. I’m living on this as proof because I had arguments before in 2011 to 2013 with lot of them in YouTube and United official website forum.

He’s only started to get more recognition or appreciation by United fans in 2012/2013, mainly because of how he managed to show everyone that he is the one man in midfield playing next to average midfielders like Jones or Cleverley.

UNITED ACADEMY · Nov 11, 2020

Tel074 said:
Remembering Carrick is also remembering the vast majority of United fans saying he's shit and all he does is pass side ways and backwards .
I think it took quite a while for the Muppets to realise his importance to the team

I used to arguing with those muppets so it’s actually true.

UNITED ACADEMY · Nov 11, 2020

Falcow said:
Easily as good as those in bold and arguably better. Not comparable to some of the others as totally different type of players.

Modric, Pirlo, Alonso and Busquests played a similar role to Carrick, he was nowhere near as good as those 4.

I’m not even sure why Modric has to join into the comparison when he’s different type of player. Modric isn’t really a no 6 or the deep midfielder who also offer good amount of defensive work, he’s more a no 8 or central midfielder and in fact his younger days he used to be attacking mid. Modric is actually a bit of late bloomer, couldn’t get into Real Madrid starting XI when he was 27.

tombombadil · Nov 11, 2020

A great player. First name on the starting sheet for me for a very long time. I still recall the days when Einsteins around the world declared that Carrick can't pass. How I wish we could find another player with his range of passing as well as positional intelligence and discipline today. Truly under appreciated.

roonster09 · Nov 11, 2020

Lynty said:
2008/2009 and 2012/2013 are what most consider his best years. I agree you have a difference in comparable midfielders between the two - but if we remove Essien, Senna etc. We replace them with Modric, Yaya etc. who were clearly better than Carrick at the early part of the decade.

No matter which year you pick - there's a solid argument to be made that Carrick barely broke top 10 midfielders (nothing wrong with that - great achievement).

Everyone who would say otherwise is a Manchester United fan.

A great player, but let's not change history and put him among the greatest midfielders of the last couple of decades - some of whom would have certainly won Ballon Dors if not for the freaks Messi/Ronaldo.

I didn't put him alongside greatest midfielders and I didn't even put him in top 10. My argument was you are mixing couple of generations, like I said he was easily better than Seedorf in 2010 and Modric in 2007 as Seedorf was close to retirement and Modric was in Croatian league at that time.

Was he better than Modric and Seedorf overall? No. But you mentioned year wise and mentioned players from 2 generations.

Anyone disagree with the point that by 2006-07, Carrick was better than Modric, Bastian who was a winger, Vidal, Khedira, Yaya and few others?

Likewise he was better than players like Seedorf, Ballack, Essien, Senna by 2010-11 as those players were past their peak and close to retirement.

tombombadil · Nov 11, 2020

Tel074 said:
Remembering Carrick is also remembering the vast majority of United fans saying he's shit and all he does is pass side ways and backwards .
I think it took quite a while for the Muppets to realise his importance to the team

Judging from some comments in here, I think some might not realise it even now.

MiracleInMadrid · Nov 11, 2020

Loved watching Carrick play. Especially as he grew older and more and more calm.

He would be absolutely ideal to partner Fred in our team today. I think his vision, passing range, calmness and positional ability would transform how our defence and midfield looks like.

thepolice123 · Nov 11, 2020

Carrick would easily walk into the midfield of any side in the PL today. To say he was just decent is wrong IMO.

Ndidi
Partey
Jorginho
Winks
Rodri
Fabinho

rollingstoned1 · Nov 11, 2020

people keep rating alonso higher than him when they were both very similar and had similar weaknesses too. that default opinion has stuck long after his retirement too when it patently isn't true.

RooneyLegend · Nov 11, 2020

He really isn't. He was what he was, a good reliable player with his strengths and weaknesses.

Jeppers7 · Nov 11, 2020

Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell said:
Match going fans seemed unanimous in his praise. A high % of morons online didn't understand his game.

Totally disagree. As a season ticket holder I never found much love for him at the game. Not a massive fan myself. He’s become massively overrated on here.

Jeppers7 · Nov 11, 2020

Relevated said:
Anyone remember the time that all he did was pass it sideways or backwards? I remember Evans getting frustrated at him once.

I think Carrick became our best midfielder, but that was only after we had no good ones left. He did the basics really well and thats got him recognition but to be honest with you, he wouldn't really make the biggest difference if you put him in todays team. A slight difference, sure, but nothing ground breaking.

Spot on

tombombadil · Nov 11, 2020

Underrated? Totally. I mean, just read the comments here. It's hilarious. Did anyone even read the opening post analysis? Or watch the video that bumped this thread back up? I give it until tomorrow before people start claiming Carrick can't pass. :lol:

Jeppers7 · Nov 11, 2020

VorZakone said:
Was he the only signing in 2006? And then 3 league titles in a row with 2 CL finals in 2008+2009...he was a massive signing.

It’s like we never signed Vidic and Evra in January and Ronaldo didn’t transform into a top two player in the world? All simply down to Carrick. Jesus.

devilish · Nov 11, 2020

I am grateful that Carrick was treated by England the way he was treated because it finally made me realise that the FA and the guys they hired couldn't acknowledge talent even if it slapped their face and kicked them in the balls. The way England treated Bruce, Cole, Beckham, Scholes and Carrick is beyond ridiculous. I noticed that things didn't really changed really. I mean you only have to notice how Greenwood is being treated as well.

Jinn · Nov 11, 2020

#07 said:
I know that the mods prefer us not to bump old threads. However, looking at how we've shifted back to a double pivot made me think about how under appreciated Carrick was. Something the OP in this thread highlighted particularly well.

Pogba is great at picking the long pass but defensively he's a liability. McFred are great at hassling and harrying but not playmaking. Carrick could stop attacks and start them. You put Carrick into this side and have him intercepting opposition moves, then firing the ball forward into Fernandes, it'd take us up levels.

What a player he was.

Pride - For the type of players we had.
Anger - for the absolute shite we have to put up with now.
Sorrow - for what these last 7 years could have been if we recruited properly.

Andersonson · Nov 11, 2020

Tel074 said:
Remembering Carrick is also remembering the vast majority of United fans saying he's shit and all he does is pass side ways and backwards .
I think it took quite a while for the Muppets to realise his importance to the team

In a fanbase, most will be clueless. A Hollywood pass and a dribble is worth more than actual ability. Hence why Pogba has 100X more fans than Carrick. Even though Carrick was a better midfielder.

TrustInJanuzaj · Nov 11, 2020

I don’t really see why everyone says Alonso was better, Carrick propelled Utd to titles whereas Alonso wasn’t able to do that with a string Liverpool side at the time. I think Carrick was the better player, just less flashy.

berbatrick · Nov 11, 2020

rollingstoned1 said:
people keep rating alonso higher than him when they were both very similar and had similar weaknesses too. that default opinion has stuck long after his retirement too when it patently isn't true.

Yup, I really don't know where Alonso gets this reputation from. He was exposed even worse in the big CL games. Hopeless for Madrid against an organised Bayern team in 2012, and cut to piees for Pep's Bayern more than once, he got pressed and couldn't handle it. He also played with far better partners for the time he gets rated (Mascherano, Gerrard, Khedira, Ozil, Modric, Kroos, Thiago, vs Scholes, Anderson, Fletcher, Giggs, Cleverley, Phil Jones). He was in a midfield 2 with Prk Ji Sung against Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi all occupying that space ffs.

...

this is when he was "scared of the ball" apparently

Lay · Nov 11, 2020

He was always poor for England. He also had a season for United when he was the scapegoat for every loss

GueRed · Nov 11, 2020

if he was from mainland europe or south america and his surname ended with a vowel he'd be much more fashionable

Number32 · Nov 11, 2020

He was brilliant going forward, but as DM/CM he cost us the key games to win more trophies/titles. That Bayern game when we were leading 3-0, then he made a simple mistake that gave them a lifeline to comeback. Nothing compare to Gerrard's slip though, but that's why people didn't rated him highly. If only he had more pace and stamina, he would be the best midfielder that we ever had.

Carrick is one of Man United, England's most underrated players ever

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