Sell ASAP - uncommitted, sloppy in possession, obsessed with himself, not a team player, the sooner he goes the better.
Should we consider selling Pogba?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Read my post again please. It's not 'un'. It's 'en'. Tbh this is quite hilarious
'en' means 'in' so what's your point?Read my post again please. It's not 'un'. It's 'en'. Tbh this is quite hilarious
He would have to say 'le' to be referencing the club, wouldn't he?
What's hilarious is your desire to be offended.
Based on his performances up to this season, he had been a flop given the money we paid and the reputation he came with.
Based on his performances this season, he'll have to improve to earn his way back into the starting 11.
At 27, he isn't going to get much better than he currently is. Based on that, there's no question that we should sell.
The only question is how much we'd get for him and how much we'd be willing to accept. Because the former will be a hell of a lot lower now than it would have been a few years ago.
Based on his performances this season, he'll have to improve to earn his way back into the starting 11.
At 27, he isn't going to get much better than he currently is. Based on that, there's no question that we should sell.
The only question is how much we'd get for him and how much we'd be willing to accept. Because the former will be a hell of a lot lower now than it would have been a few years ago.
Common, you obviously don't speak or understand French. Please stop
Not necessarily. It can also mean he feels it more for France.
This is a bit harsh. My theory is the injury has taken something away from him. He was good after the restart when everybodys fitness levels were poor but when the intensity picked up he disappeared.
He never set the world alight with us but he was never this bad.
We should sell him when it looks like disinterest is holding him back rather than a career affecting injury imo
I know the age difference etc. But I’d swap him for Ronaldo. Maybe a bit of money in our favour. But either way, we’ll lose Pogba for free in 2 years so we need to think they both have a 2 year life.
He will be sold in the summer, if there are any takers.
Having Ronaldo back would reaffirm to me that the club have no idea what is the path forward.
So many times on interational football duty Pogba gets misquoted, mistranslated, spun by loaded questions etc. Pogba could stop all of this by not having interviews or keeping to scripted answers. The fact he continues to have these interviews shows he wants these things to continue as it suits his agenda.
I simply asked if anyone remembered what Jose has said about Pogba being touchable?
Nowhere was I debating the transfer etc.
That's rich.Common, you obviously don't speak or understand French. Please stop
The journalist involved said he wasn't talking about the club and the original quotes have been clarified a number of times by various sources.
You can stick to your contention that he was talking specifically about United but you're wrong.
Love how all the Pogba fanboys have finally been shown up. All the excuses of 'he's playing with poor players so what do you expect' went up in smoke when Bruno joined and showed him right up.
I'd rather have Bruno at 70% fit. He'd still try harder.
I'd rather have Bruno at 70% fit. He'd still try harder.
This is exactly what has happened.
Even Fred is showing him up.
And McT?
Effort can beat natural ability sometimes.
And AWB? And Rashford? And Maguire? I mean, you could go through the whole team right now. The team, to me, seems very together, committed to the cause and working hard apart from Paul.
Yeah but at least I didn't try to look like an expert at something then failed spectacularly at that
And you have a link or the bold part?
He has said the words 'it's like a breath of fresh air' you don't use language like that unless you are unhappy with the situation you have escaped from.
He didn't need to use that term to explain how he enjoys meeting up with the national team, nor did he need to use it to explain how he is unhappy with his own performances this season (which is the reason he is in and out of the team).
The only time he has looked anything like the player he thinks he is is during Oles honeymoon when he massaged Pogbas ego, other than that hes been consistently inconsistent.
I think he is unhappy because he is no longer the main man, i have noticed he doesn't seem to want to pass to Bruno he seems to want to do it himself or bypass him if he can.
Towards the end of Mourinhos tenure, he was dropped in favour of Mctominay a lesser player technically and creatively but a much more dependable and consistent player, alot of people thought that the problem was the manager but it appears history is repeating itself with the same players in the same scenario.
Based on the above i think it is time to say au reviour to Paul pogba and move him on, maybe we can loan him to villa in a deal for grealish still paying some of his wages until we can find a suitable buyer in the summer. That would be perfect but I cant see it.
He didn't need to use that term to explain how he enjoys meeting up with the national team, nor did he need to use it to explain how he is unhappy with his own performances this season (which is the reason he is in and out of the team).
The only time he has looked anything like the player he thinks he is is during Oles honeymoon when he massaged Pogbas ego, other than that hes been consistently inconsistent.
I think he is unhappy because he is no longer the main man, i have noticed he doesn't seem to want to pass to Bruno he seems to want to do it himself or bypass him if he can.
Towards the end of Mourinhos tenure, he was dropped in favour of Mctominay a lesser player technically and creatively but a much more dependable and consistent player, alot of people thought that the problem was the manager but it appears history is repeating itself with the same players in the same scenario.
Based on the above i think it is time to say au reviour to Paul pogba and move him on, maybe we can loan him to villa in a deal for grealish still paying some of his wages until we can find a suitable buyer in the summer. That would be perfect but I cant see it.
I simply made a point if Jose doesn’t like and can’t control player who is not discipline then he should not spend 89m on the player in the first place.
I - and I think a lot of other people - get the other parts of the quote. I'm only curious about the bolded part. IIRC, it's pretty ambiguous, but I'm not sure and wondering if an overwhleming majority of french-speaking caftards might lean one way or the other.He is just saying that it's different than being at our respective clubs. He's talking about the enjoyement and bond they all feel together.
I knew straight away this was gonna be interpreted as a dig at Utd
I appreciate that, but I do know that much french. I'm talking about the very specifics of "qu'en", per below.
This is how I remember the grammar as well. Although the resultant sentence is still not anywhere near clear cut for me. It's ambiguous. Translated to English it would be like: "It's different to being at club/(uni)." There's no mention of what club, what uni...BUT:
There's a huge amount of leeway for any listener to say: "Okay, he's talking about everyone being back at everyone's respective club in general" vs. "FFS this snake knows exactly what he's doing by deliberately using that ambiguous form."
Should have sold this clown in 2019 when he actually had value.
Best to have nothing to do with any players that's signed with Riaola.
Best to have nothing to do with any players that's signed with Riaola.
So it's his fault if he's 'misquoted, mistranslated, spun by loaded questions etc?'
It's not his fault but he has the power to make this stop happening. But he allows for it to continue so either he is stupid and doesn't realise that he is constantly being misquoted or he agrees with the 'misquotation'.
How regularly is this actually happening and do we know for a fact it is? For all of the things to blame him for, this seems an odd one. Sure he no doubt could do less interviews- he'll be obliged to do certain ones due to his responsibilities to United, the French national team and his sponsors- but he is being singled out here like he is the only player in the world this happens too.
Him 'agreeing with the misquotation' is a bit conspiracy theory for me.
I think his only top quality performances for us have come as a #8 from LCM. Don't think he can play as part of the double pivot for us. If he's not committed or not playing as an #8 then we should cash in.
But quite frankly a midfield of Fred, McT and Bruno is far too reliant on Bruno for creativity in a team that is light on quality wide options (ala Liverpool offsetting their fairly limited midfield). I still think we're better off long term with finding a system that works with a single pivot with Bruno and another quality #8. Perhaps we don't have enough defensive stability or DM suited personnel to playing a single pivot right now. But I think we should at least try a single pivot formation with Bruno and Pogba both as #8s before we completely give up on him.
But quite frankly a midfield of Fred, McT and Bruno is far too reliant on Bruno for creativity in a team that is light on quality wide options (ala Liverpool offsetting their fairly limited midfield). I still think we're better off long term with finding a system that works with a single pivot with Bruno and another quality #8. Perhaps we don't have enough defensive stability or DM suited personnel to playing a single pivot right now. But I think we should at least try a single pivot formation with Bruno and Pogba both as #8s before we completely give up on him.
I don’t hate Pogba and feel sorry that he/club couldn’t make it work. The problem with Pogba is that he was bought by a struggling team with an idea to build tactics around him.
Both Mourinho and Ole started with counter attacking set up where Paul had some (limited) use.But United can’t be always counter attacking. Mourinho couldn’t take the team to that (attacking proficienc) level. Ole is trying to learn how to attack (and teach the team). No other manager we had post-SAF kept his job long enough to reach this stage (we’re having now), but it is more of Ole than Pogba story.
What is with Paul Pogba? Simple: Pogba doesn’t suit EPL. He brings a lot to counterattacking phase where his long balls from the deep are devastating but his deficiencies in pressing and defense, tendency to keep the ball for too much give the oppo time to adjust formation and become impenetrable.
To open up a low block a modern playmaker (which PP was meant to be) must have a lot of creativity PLUS movement, teamwork, and hence, a lot of stamina. A playmaker with just vision and a good long pass is not enough in EPL. Bruno is a modern (dynamic and pressing) playmaker, Pogba - no.
The difference is huge: we observe for a almost an year now how Bruno manages to pull results for himself and the team even if his creative play is not good (usually because he is marked). He just runs more, adds value in pressing and drops deeper to support the team.
PP is a moody player who plays only when he shines. NT is a good place for him as it doesn’t demand hard work on daily basis. Being good for NT and being good for the club every day is different things.
Sell Paul to La Liga - he will be happy there.
Both Mourinho and Ole started with counter attacking set up where Paul had some (limited) use.But United can’t be always counter attacking. Mourinho couldn’t take the team to that (attacking proficienc) level. Ole is trying to learn how to attack (and teach the team). No other manager we had post-SAF kept his job long enough to reach this stage (we’re having now), but it is more of Ole than Pogba story.
What is with Paul Pogba? Simple: Pogba doesn’t suit EPL. He brings a lot to counterattacking phase where his long balls from the deep are devastating but his deficiencies in pressing and defense, tendency to keep the ball for too much give the oppo time to adjust formation and become impenetrable.
To open up a low block a modern playmaker (which PP was meant to be) must have a lot of creativity PLUS movement, teamwork, and hence, a lot of stamina. A playmaker with just vision and a good long pass is not enough in EPL. Bruno is a modern (dynamic and pressing) playmaker, Pogba - no.
The difference is huge: we observe for a almost an year now how Bruno manages to pull results for himself and the team even if his creative play is not good (usually because he is marked). He just runs more, adds value in pressing and drops deeper to support the team.
PP is a moody player who plays only when he shines. NT is a good place for him as it doesn’t demand hard work on daily basis. Being good for NT and being good for the club every day is different things.
Sell Paul to La Liga - he will be happy there.
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Seems fans just pick and choose moments to support players. If Pogba was not here during Solskjaer's initial interim period Ole would not be the manager here because most our unbeaten run up to the PSG fixture was down to Paul's form. Notice during this phase he was played as the sole attacking midfield or a very advanced 8. Since then he's shown a lack of consistency in performances but much of it is also down to his deployment, why would you play a player which such poor defensive discipline in a double pivot role that requires discipline to not leave the back line exposed ?
I look at it as 50 / 50 situation, Pogba has failed to fully utilise all his opportunities while Solskjaer has also mismanaged the player like Mourinho from a coaching and tactical perspective. If the managers insistence is to play a 4-2-3-1 why are people mentioning a DLP how many midfielders are there in world football aside maybe Modric who can utilise that position creatively. There's hardly any at the level we would need considering we don't play well as a unit. We would need a Ndidi type of signing to complement playing alongside either Fred or Mctommimay.
I look at it as 50 / 50 situation, Pogba has failed to fully utilise all his opportunities while Solskjaer has also mismanaged the player like Mourinho from a coaching and tactical perspective. If the managers insistence is to play a 4-2-3-1 why are people mentioning a DLP how many midfielders are there in world football aside maybe Modric who can utilise that position creatively. There's hardly any at the level we would need considering we don't play well as a unit. We would need a Ndidi type of signing to complement playing alongside either Fred or Mctommimay.
A lot of valid points, especially on Pogba’s positional use. He is better higher up the pitch. However, he is worse than Bruno at that position. He earns twice as much as the guy who he lost his place to. It’s bad for team structure which just started to improve now. We can’t use them together, what we do? Sell Bruno or Pogba?
I think Pogba lost his place to Fred/McT rather than Bruno, which is even worse as he should be much better than them
I can't but wonder if this is something Fergie saw in the lad - beyond his obvious talent when he was 18 and wanting more senior playtime. Add to that, that Pogba through fecking Raiola never got to learn humility and to bide his time, as he [Raiola] got Pogba what he wanted when he pointed to it, and then for Juventus to give him all the time he wanted with a tremendous Pirlo next to him to help cover his obvious flaws. I mean, if he had stayed - Fergie might have taught him otherwise and probably could've done a great 'mental work' on him as he grew older with United. SAF probably saw this attitude from a far - sadly!
Nope, Ferguson tried to keep Pogba at the club; it was too late, and Pogba showed he was ready at Juventus.
To be fair, when Pogba played under Ole as interim manager, Pogba showed poor performance against PSG first leg and we lost the match, we managed to win the second leg without Pogba and since then, Pogba played 12 matches without changing his role and only scored 2 goals & 0 assist and those 2 goals was in one game against West Ham and he scored both them from penalty. At the end of the day, he disappeared in those 12 matches despite of playing in advanced position and never really step up like Bruno was last season.
And also It's ironic because Pogba actually spent majority his time in this double pivot at France before they went to diamond formation now and it's supposed to be the position where he will find it enjoyable to play considering the fact that he looks happier with France than us.
I think it's very clear whether he plays no 10, 8, 6, he is still inconsistent. Bruno really shows us what consistent is and how you perform as a real big and top player that can lift the team up and making players around you better, something Pogba never show in these 4.5 years.
He's on 290k p/w expired in 2022, show inconsistent performance & doesn't make players around him better as a big player, I think it's time to move on.
McFred was a forced move, in my opinion, exactly because Paul was injured. Bruno also came during that period. They grabbed the chance with both legs and established themselves as important squad members. But when Paul recovered, he was back in the team (already behind Bruno) and was doing pretty well for a couple of months. Until he decided he is too tired or he had too much of dirty work, or whatever he thought.
the excitement about Pogba was that he seemed to be a “player who can perform everywhere” (Mourinho words iirc). But in reality, he lost all his potential workplaces to teammmates who are more specialized and, so to say, deliver craft consistently rather an odd masterpiece one in a while.
In short, he could play anywhere in midfield but ended up being nowhere. I’m concerned about VdB who is also “versatile”.
The reason why Ole ditched the 4-3-3 was because it simply wasn't sustainable with the players we had, especially when Herrera left. Added to this, is that playing Pogba as the 10 in a 4-2-3-1 also massively imbalanced the team defensively. Just because he's the 10, doesn't mean that he's free from defensive duties - it isn't 1995 anymore. The modern 10 leads the press from the front, and Pogba just isn't interested in that. Look at the application of Bruno when he's played there and compare it to Pogba. It's a night and day's difference. Even with a manic Bruno now here, we still don't have that mobile defensive midfielder who can be trusted to cover the passing lanes that are opened up when Pogba and Bruno are further up the pitch. Look what happened when Matic was the defensive player in a midfield diamond against Istanbul, and that was in a system where he ostensibly should have had more protection. Now imagine if it's just him alone and Pogba and Bruno - it'll never work.
Pogba has played in that double pivot and excelled for France, winning a World Cup in the process. There is no reason why he couldn't have done the same here. Especially since, the way Ole plays the double pivot is much more enterprising than Jose's and even Deschamps' way of playing it.
Look, I don't hate Pogba, and I still hold out a crumb of hope that it works out for him because contrary to popular belief, I really do think that he loves the club, and from what everyone with an ear to the ground at Carrington says, he is very well liked and his application has never dipped. But at the same time, he needs to hold his hands up and say that it has gone wrong and it can't be down to the management. Jose backed him relentlessly for 18 months before finally turning on him. Ole has been backing him to the hilt even now. We've brought players in and through who we have hoped can be the players to unlock him, but every time it looks like it might have finally clicked for him, something happens which puts it back to square one. Tactics don't trump application, and the fact of the matter is Pogba's application has been sorely lacking. That is inexcusable.
I also do think the media haven't helped, with their wholly unrealistic expectations of him - he must be the only player in the world who is expected to be the best at almost literally everything. I suppose it's par for the course when you have that price tag on you, but that isn't his fault. He didn't choose it, in the same way that Maguire didn't choose his.
Unfortunately, as much as I hope things work out for him, I am realistic enough to realise that it's probably going to be for the best if we call it quits and wish him well at his next club. It's a massive shame, because there have been glimpses of that real game changing talent, but it's been all far too fleeting.
Which means the intent for Ole was to keep playing both, therefore Bruno wasn't really the one who benched Paul.
well, yes
Hard to argue with this if we discuss Ole’s plans and how they changed. There was certain sequence of events in reality which unfolded in the way you described.My point is a more of observation of internal competition between squad members in terms of functionality. I’m highlighting the fact that on paper Paul was expected to outshine anybody anywhere in midfield and in reality he can’t play anywhere for us. If you agree with this thesis than you should accept that Paul lost his place as the main creator to Bruno.
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I agree indeed. He lost that role, he lost the organizer of midfield role (number 8) and thank God he was never considered as a 6 eitherwell, yes
My point is a more of observation of internal competition between squad members in terms of functionality. I’m highlighting the fact that on paper Paul was expected to outshine anybody anywhere in midfield and in reality he can’t play anywhere for us. If you agree with this thesis than you should accept that Paul lost his place as the main creator to Bruno.