Get behind the manager and club

At this point I'm convinced that some people are fans of a footballclub so they have something to criticize relentlessly without facing consequences.

Godfather said:

That is simply not true. We won a trophy under Mou in his first season and Pogba played his best football for us. In his second season Mou went downhill drastically but probably by intention as he saw he wasn't getting backed by the board.

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I no longer consider Pogba a starter. But I don't think he's much worse now than he was under Mourinho overall.

People that support Ole should come together and right a book about "how to be proper fans 101".

BlueHaze said:

So you don't think it's worrying when you see so many fans talking about like everything at the club is rosey and everything will be fine again completely avoiding the reality? Many have just accepted how shit we are being run as a club and don't voice their opinions enough that's just the truth man. And my point with the post you replied to is that people like them are just as true supporters as anyone else.

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Its not worrying because nothing the fans say will affect what the club are going to do anyway. If fans had any sway we'd have gone through 12 managers since Ferguson instead of 4.

You obviously seem to have a slightly more pessimistic viewpoint of how things are going than some others do, so your vision of whatever this reality is that everyone is avoiding is fed by your pessimism. Many feel differently, and its not blind faith or a lowering of standards or delusion as so many like to claim. Its a genuine feeling that the club are moving, slowly but surely, in the right direction.

HTG said:

It’s funny how so many of your fans manage to consider United the biggest club in the world, yet at the same time display the same ambition a club like Everton has.
You‘re too bad. Too bad for your investment, too bad for your history and too bad for your standing in the world. Stop defending people who put in a bad job and demand more.

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Not that the clubs would be particularly close in stature or their financial situation, but I see quite a few similarities between how Schalke's fans dealt with the past decade and the caf. You have the nostalgia about the more successful past, the officials from that era who personify the hope that they know the proper way the club works, the false dawns, the "just give the coach some time, Klopp didn't win titles in his first two years either", fans claiming who is a fan and who isn't, celebrating people in charge just for letting the previous management's flops leave.

OleBoiii said:

I strongly disagree. Martial looks like a different player. Rashford is more consistent. Lindelöf makes far fewer mistakes. McTominay's improvement has been marginal, but it's still a step in the right direction.

This is dishonest to say the least. We were consistently good/great for half a season. That is not enough to get to where we want obviously, but it proves that we can play good football for long periods under Ole. The issue is having us play good football for a whole season(and preferably longer).

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Yeah Martial looks a different player. For each and every game though which was the same under Mou and the reason Mou didn't trust him. Rahsford is as inconsistent as he was under Mou. Lindelöf makes the same stupid mistakes. I'm not even sure where you are going with you arguments here? Looking at the bigger picture would be better here: Does Ole get enough out of these players? Does he get them to play attractive football? Does he get us results?
The answer to all of these questions is no. Some on here do believe he will in the future though. And i hope they are right. I simply don't.

do.ob said:

Not that the clubs would be particularly close in stature or their financial situation, but I see quite a few similarities between how Schalke's fans dealt with the past decade and the caf. You have the nostalgia about the more successful past, the officials from that era who personify the hope that they know the proper way the club works, the false dawns, the "just give the coach some time, Klopp didn't win titles in his first two years either", fans claiming who is a fan and who isn't.

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That's harsh we aren't in such a mess (yet).

People are just reacting to what they’re seeing. While there definitely needs to be less negativity in some respects, and some people are massively over-critical, the opposite, where we blindly show ‘support’ on a forum no one sees doesn’t achieve much either.

This is a culmination of years of frustration and the same pattern being repeated now. Although I do think Ole has done more for us than the others, it doesn’t look like we’re about to break that cycle without more big changes.

I have seen the same thing posted about Moyes.

Bilbo said:

Its not worrying because nothing the fans say will affect what the club are going to do anyway. If fans had any sway we'd have gone through 12 managers since Ferguson instead of 4.

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Well it's a good thing we didn't do that or else we could've ended up like Real Madrid or Chelsea instead of our brilliant seven years.

Nou_Camp99 said:

Yet he can beat pep 3 times in a season, beat PSG away twice and smash everyone's new 2nd team RB Leipzig 5-0? How does a manager as bad as you make out do all that?

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All games that played into his hands (although we didn't look all that great in the first PSG game and even against Leipzig I don't think our performance was all that but after the 2-0 Leipzig fecked up massively).

It's games where he needs to show he knows more than one gameplan (to counterattack). Games where we need to combine our way through deep defensive lines. These are the games where we look completely clueless. And sadly this hasn't changed since day one under Ole.

Nou_Camp99 said:

We all do but most of us realise the size of task and that it takes time. You lot will want Poch out or whoever replaces him the second the results turn sour which they will.

He's only had 1 full season in charge and finished as high up as was ever possible. No chance was he finishing top 2 last season so he at least deserves till May. If we come below 4th then there's a decision to be made.

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If we do get Poch maybe it won’t work, I don’t know. I do know that the football will be less negative & tiresome though. It’s gotten to the point where I have made peace with the likelihood that we will never win another title under this ownership, but can I not at least enjoy the football? Is it too much to ask that we can at least attack the worst team in the league without a 2 man defensive midfield shield?

Ole got us 3rd in his only full season, it’s a fact, good for him. He also got us our lowest ever premier league points tally in that very same season. We benefited massively from Chelsea, Spurs & Arsenal having their worst seasons in years. In some seasons that points tally would have seen us finish as low as 9th.

I get what your saying mate, I really do. But if we’re gonna have record low points tally’s can we not at least play decent football? Do we have to set up so god damn bloody negative? I feel myself deflate before the match even starts just by looking at the team sheet.

He’s had some cracking results, I’m not taking them away from him. There’s a pattern though, we play like a small club in every single one. Sitting deep, staying compact, lumping it in behind & using our pace on the counter. Yes, we won at the Etihad with about 25% possession, but so did Wolves & Palace. It’s not a sustainable way to play against 80% of the other teams in the league.

Nou_Camp99 said:

Yet he can beat pep 3 times in a season, beat PSG away twice and smash everyone's new 2nd team RB Leipzig 5-0? How does a manager as bad as you make out do all that?

I'm not spinning anything. Ole has done enough to merit the full season. If we don't come top 4 then there's a decision to be made. It's 8 games!!!!

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I never called him a bad manager. Just not good enough and underqualfied andd he hasn't done anything to clear my doubts. Maybe beating those teams is enough for you

I criticise Ole and don't think he's good enough but my stance through out this season has never been to sack Ole right now though I came close before the Everton game. I'd wait till December to see where we are.

AFC NimbleThumb said:

Great point.

The d*ck measuring on this forum in regards to members fandom stifles most conversation. The second you disagree you’re a ‘plastic’ etc.

Its a millennial trait.

Another fair point although both aren’t the same thing.

Standards have dropped when fans are falling over themselves less than 10 games into the season to justify regression in our previous league finish. The race hasn’t even been run & people are building in the excuses.

You’re right though, everybody wants us to win titles so disagreeing in the path back there shouldn’t be the issue it has become.

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Why would that be a millennial trait?

Godfather said:

Does Ole get enough out of these players? Does he get them to play attractive football?

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It's difficult to conclude, because Ole is the most fluctuating coach we've had post Fergie. Our highs under Ole are significantly better and more entertaining than under previous managers. And these highs have been proven to last for as long as half a season.

It's a matter of opinion/belief. I believe that a coach capable of providing such highs should be given a chance at least until he fails. So far he hasn't really failed as far I'm concerned. He took us to 3rd place in his first full season despite playing with the worst midfield composition I've seen(AM in particular) for half a year.

If he fails to make top 4 this season then I will re-evaluate my opinion, based on the context at the time. I do think we were given a very harsh start in terms of fitness and preseason, but that's only 3-4 games out of 38. We can't really blame that unless we barely miss out on top 4.

Whether talking about football or anything else, online culture doesn't represent real life.

My experience in Manchester is always that the majority of reds I chat to are quite pragmatic and realistic about the expectations on the current team.

Forums and social media is just tabloid level, gutter trash opinion. Sensationalism and reactionary hyperbole. Entertaining to a point but not to be given any really credence.

I've never been able to grasp the point of threads like this.

What are they supposed to achieve, those in support of Ole are superior to those that oppose them?

Meh, I don't get it.

Godfather said:

That's harsh we aren't in such a mess (yet).

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United's revenue is so robust, the club can probably go on like this for decades without getting in serious financial trouble. I was comparing how the fans deal with continued underachievement.

Nou_Camp99 said:

Is that all on Ole though or are once again the fans who want him out forgetting why our managers keep getting to this situation ???

We're 8 games into the PL season. We're well within reach of the top 4. We're in within a good chance of getting out of the CL group. Fans are just so impatient these days and don't know what they want. Same people will be crying Poch out (or whoever it is) within 18 months I guarantee it.

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They want more progress. I think Ole could further improve the squad, but not sure he can get much closer to a major trophy. We might as well get someone in who can do both. We just need to make sure they will actually build on it

do.ob said:

United's revenue is so robust, the club can probably go on like this for decades without getting in serious financial trouble. I was comparing how the fans deal with continued underachievement.

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That I agree with.

Nou_Camp99 said:

So much so that they have turned to the anti Christ of 'pretty football', Jose Mourinho.

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They want a trophy. Their fans don’t even care about the football. They just want a trophy. Their circumstances are different to ours.

Crashoutcassius said:

Oles time has been the best we have had in years in my view. We are under no pressure to replace him, fans try to create urgency say 'before it's too late' or whatever but it is rubbish. Many fans biggest fear is that we improve from here under ole, so their urgency is that he doesn't get time to improve.

There are outcomes this season that should get ole the sack - but in my book he has earned the right to go through the season and see if he can hit those targets

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Absolutely bang on here!

I don't think it's wrong to demand more from the club when our performances on the pitch are not meeting our expectations.

Our standing in the league is not terrible, considering we also have a game in hand. But there's still a lot of concerns with our performances and Ole's in-game management that are valid for people to criticize.

Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell said:

Whether talking about football or anything else, online culture doesn't represent real life.

My experience in Manchester is always that the majority of reds I chat to are quite pragmatic and realistic about the expectations on the current team.

Forums and social media is just tabloid level, gutter trash opinion. Sensationalism and reactionary hyperbole. Entertaining to a point but not to be given any really credence.

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Jesus that's a very adult opinion right there.

hobbers said:

We don't have a divine right to win the title or finish the season a few points off it, but we do have a divine right to expect the team to improve on last year. He's had the time and he's spent the money, and we have a squad that's largely the perfect age. We do have a divine right to expect our manager to be bringing us forward not backwards.

So far this season it's been a giant step backwards. Results and performances.

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At the risk of being pedantic, this isn't true.

This time last season we had 13 points from 10 games, and we were playing fecking FC Astana in the Europa League. We'd been well beaten by West Ham & Newcastle and scraped past Rochdale on penalties. The squad was thin, Lingard and Pereira were on most team sheets. We hadn't yet and didn't yet know that we were going to sign Bruno. Liverpool were 10 from 10 (I think) and the league was already gone

So far this season we have 13 points from 8 games. We've already beaten two of last seasons CL semi-finalists, and we are well placed to qualify from a really tough group and go into the knockouts. The squad is much deeper than it was and it doesn't look like anyone is going to be putting 100 league points on the board.

I mean, say what you like about how we aren't where you'd like us to be, that's your opinion, but to call it a giant step backwards just doesn't hold water really. We have far more reason to be optimistic and excited about this season than we did this time last year.

The most hilariously transparent, self satisfying of threads. Slightly less obnoxious than the infamous “whoop, whoop tactical masterclass thread”.
@Massive Spanner has covered most of the transparency in his posts.

To sum it up the OP is saying ‘if you criticise Ole you’re a prick and you don’t support the club’.
But it’s perfectly fine to criticise the players and owners regularly. Everyone can be criticised except the manager and if you do you’re a shit fan.

At this point I think the Op of this thread and the OP of the “whoop whoop” thread should just make a thread for just them two, that way they tell each other how great they are at supporting the club and how terrible everyone else is at doing it.

Bilbo said:

At the risk of being pedantic, this isn't true.

This time last season we had 13 points from 10 games, and we were playing fecking FC Astana in the Europa League. We'd been well beaten by West Ham & Newcastle and scraped past Rochdale on penalties. The squad was thin, Lingard and Pereira were on most team sheets. We hadn't yet and didn't yet know that we were going to sign Bruno. Liverpool were 10 from 10 (I think) and the league was already gone

So far this season we have 13 points from 8 games. We've already beaten two of last seasons CL semi-finalists, and we are well placed to qualify from a really tough group and go into the knockouts. The squad is much deeper than it was and it doesn't look like anyone is going to be putting 100 league points on the board.

I mean, say what you like about how we aren't where you'd like us to be, that's your opinion, but to call it a giant step backwards just doesn't hold water really. We have far more reason to be optimistic and excited about this season than we did this time last year.

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Spot on. And that's not even mentioning our lack of a proper pre-season fecking us over in the first 3-4 games.

VP89 said:

So you think disappointment in performances and managerial performance means we are't supporting the team week in week out? I'm confused by what you mean by "get behind the club" in that sense?

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Totally agree with this. Its only dumb luck and partly because of our goalkeeper we aren’t further behind.

It has been an appalling start to the season by everything but what the table says. Im interested to see where it leads us but we all know where it’s going eventually.

Anyone who doesn’t is deluded by nostalgia. Ole has done some good work but we have to let him go soon. I’ve seen enough personally to know we will never be a top side with this outlook.

It’s not rocket science when you see our football with your own eyes. Our squad is strong too so can’t use that excuse.

Nou_Camp99 said:

Nope. Criticism is fine. Sacking him after a handful of games isn't. Ole Outers don't get that part. Nobody is above criticism.

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What's wrong in people saying Ole should be sacked. It's their opinion and you can't force them to live by your rules of being a proper fan. It's not like what they say on here has any effect unless Ed is reading the Caf

Nou_Camp99 said:

Nope. Criticism is fine. Sacking him after a handful of games isn't. Ole Outers don't get that part. Nobody is above criticism.

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It's not a handful of games though is it? It's a couple of years worth.

Bilbo said:

I mean, say what you like about how we aren't where you'd like us to be, that's your opinion, but to call it a giant step backwards just doesn't hold water really. We have far more reason to be optimistic and excited about this season than we did this time last year.

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I know we’ve been having a discussion that borders on a disagreement in another thread but I totally agree with you here.

do.ob said:

United's revenue is so robust, the club can probably go on like this for decades without getting in serious financial trouble. I was comparing how the fans deal with continued underachievement.

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Realistically, the revenue will drop once it's time for the sponsors to re-contract and they dump the club because we're no longer a top team.

Nou_Camp99 said:

Well said.

They don't want progress. They want unrealistic instant success. Glory hunters who wouldn't even be United fans if they were born 25 years later most of them.

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Such a childish comment. Some of your points were ok and worth getting into. Turns out this thread is another one to best be left alone with arguments like that though. Should have known better the first time the term "Ole-Outers" was used.