I guess we don't understand the word to the same level. For instance, absorbing the pressure and passing to Martial/Rashford is basic football, I wouldn't even call that a pattern.
Give it a rest top red lad, pointing how a good coach stamps his influence on good players is hardly kissing his arse, whether that is Klopp, Pep or even Frank Lampard. And don't start that cycle bollocks nobody said that Ole should be sacked at this moment but does that mean we can't point out the fecking obvious?
That is the pattern, give it to your flair players, instead of hoofing the ball upwards (Mourinho), or pass it back to De Gea (LVG), time and time again, Ole's united is more determined to hurt teams on the fast breaks.
I did say "good" pattern of play tbh. Giving it to the flair players and basically hoping they pull off something magical on their own doesn't cut it most games sadly.
This is true but my concern is that this doesn’t work in all matches. When it does, it’s a joy to watch and I’m not expecting us to be able to do it in every match but what are we doing with teams that drop back deep and sit tight? We’ve seen it so often and my question is, what has changed with how we deal with that in 2 years?
I have been saying for ages about the coaching staff. Ole has to create his own legacy, not try to replicate SAF's. He needs as you say somebody with new ideas not all sitting there thinking 'What would Sir Alex do in this situation'?
It's always like that for big teams.
And there it is. "top red"
Pathetic is your contribution to this thread.
Ok pal. I had a retort to this, but on second thoughts, I can't be arsed. It's boring
To be fair, we were actually able to pass the ball with intent and efficiency far better than we are currently doing around 2000-2007ish. Especially against lesser teams. And this was at a time when the focus on possession, passing patterns etc were not one of the main focuses of tactical approaches.
We have "patterns", but if this is down to previous knowledge from the managers, the players prefered actions or the input from the manager is difficult to conclude. What is easy to conclude is that the "patterns" does not include many players or continued into other areas of the pitch. Usually it is the LB, LCB, LCM and LW that tries to progress the ball while the rest of the team is not involved. And, usually, when we try to progress down the left side, the opposition shifts towards this side, but we are not able/aware of/instructed to take advantage of the space on the right side with AWB. And it all ends with a pass back to the centreback, a throw in or a high risk pass/dribble forwards into a congested area.
What pattern do you want to see?
It is difficult to discern particular patterns that encompass the whole team, but one can see that a team got an idea on how to attack when the players are efficient on the ball. That is, they know what they should do with it; pass, dribble, move etc.
Again, are we talking about that kind of pattern? I am too lazy to retrieve all the other analysis but we do have very clear instructions in our play. Just because it doesn't always click doesn't mean we don't, right? Because when it clicks, it does very well.
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Don't agree! It's no coincidence the majority of the best managers in the last decade operate from the touchline. Can't see the point in sitting in the stands looking at replays on a computer screen tbh. Something wrong if a manager engaging with his players from the touchline has no effect. Do you really believe Pep, Klopp, Simeone (all top managers) have no influence on the players and that their teams would perform just as good if they sat in the stands?
I agree. The term "pattern" itself is a weird one, and that obsession for it even weirder. But it's a fallacy to not being able to recognize how we play and how we have improved a lot in term of combination and will to create chances. Very strange to not being able to notice that.
Even after Beckam left, our crosses have not been that good.
I saw your post earlier and I'm not saying that this can't be called a pattern, but when this does not encompass an efficent movement of the ball to the right side, then it does not help much. I posted this earlier:
We have mainly tried to progress the ball down the left side for 7/8 years. That we have 3/4 players that can pass together on one side of the pitch does not help much when we are not taking advantage of the spaces that are created from this particular way of focusing the progression of the ball. The same was the case when we had Bruno and PP at the end of the last season. We progressed the ball through the middle of the pitch, and when the opposition started to crowd the space around Bruno and PP we were not able to take advantage of the space available on the sides. It is like we have Plan A, but never a plan B or C, or a continuation of plan A. Or we have those plans or continuations, but our players are unable to execute them, like not being able to pass to AWB in your example or not seeing him.
Ok now we're making progress. We have patterns, but they are "inefficient" is what I am hearing.
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That post literally just described a failed passage of play (fullback overlap scenario) and concluded it by saying it was the players that failed to spot the pattern. What a flimsy writeup. If we're to even accept the premise that the pattern was there but the players just didn't realise it how does that further Ole's case? It's still a failure in implementing one. The move broke down in only the first phase.
It could have been made with the Fergie team that was schooled by Bilbao a while ago.
City struggled massively to break down Tottenham and instead went hoofball at times. Breaking down a compact defense also requires your players to pull off something out of the ordinary.
What a strange take. Bruno is not a robot, he can fail to see AWB, and not because he doesn't want to pass to him. The point is that we need the team to pass to AWB at least sometimes, because regardless of his ability (which is OK as long as he doesn't transition, in fact, and is already in attacking position), it forces the full back to pay attention to AWB and in return, create space in a future opportunity for us.
I never said I don't see patterns btw so you've misunderstood me. Not once did I say that.
Apologies, I saw the below and thought you said there was no identifiable good pattern.
No worries. All in all, we just wanna enjoy the games tbh. How we phrase things and how we see them don't matter much. We know there is room for improvement
All our problems stem from poor recruitment right from the top.
I agree with this. In my opinion, Rashford and Martial are dropping deep and there is no clear understanding when to cross (Telles) and when to make a run (forwards). Mata does that, but that's the only thing he does. Definitely need to work on that.
Maybe it's so obvious that teams position themselves so we can't do these patterns you've listed, Ole doesn't change tactics and he's been found out, our only good performances mainly come from teams attacking us leaving space to counter which I think we are brilliant at it when it pays off.
People laugh at that Fulham game under Moyes where we crossed about 200 times, but I kind of feel at least there was a plan on how we might actually end up scoring a goal in that game, and we actually put effort into trying to score a goal. Watching the Istanbul game the other week it genuinely looked like the players didn't know what they were supposed to be doing. There didn't look to be any cohesive idea as to how they wanted to create a chance to score, that was far more embarassing.
unfortunately not
