Rank the PL managers

lysglimt

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I think people are so seriously overrating Bielsa. Apart from getting Leeds promoted (which in fairness isn't that great an achievment) - what has he done as a club manager ?

He was poor at Espanyol until he decided to leave to take over Argentina (after 9 matches)

He was poor at Bilbao - apart from a good run in Europe - but ended up in a conflict with the board and was not offered a new contract. In fairness the poor results was partially down to Martinez being sold and Llorente frozen out by the club. But it doesn't change the fact that the results were poor.

He did quite good at Marseille - but resigned after disagreement with the board

Took charge of Lazio and then resigned before a match had been played - because the board didnt get him the players he wanted

At Lille he basically kicked 13 experienced players out of the club to go with younger players - which in itself isn't necessarily wrong, but when you start the season with 6 points in 11 matches you are in trouble. Results actually improved quite a bit just before he got fired - but he picked up just 20 points in 19 matches.
 

Dancfc

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Pep would relegate smaller team , not sure his method could work with mediocre players , he always need the best player to execute his tactic and style. By the way , i'll drop Bielsa to "sacked soon", just got schooled by Roy Hodgson , such an overrated manager he is, good at theory shite at practice , won almost nothing in over 20 years career.
Don't really buy this notion he will fail at smaller clubs.

Well I guess it's how you define fail, if you expect him to win titles with them then yes he will "fail" but many other manager's have/are overachieving playing excellent football with lesser sides. Sarri at Empoli, Ralph at Saints right now, Howe at Bournemouth, heck even Holloway managed to get an awful Blackpool squad competitive at this level (yes they went down but the fact they were in with a chance of surviving was a miracle in itself) and he became an attacking manager off the cuff on the advice of a friend.

Not quite sure why Pep wouldn't have achieved the same.
 

Giggsy13

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If he was at the bottom - and Rodgers was at the top - why did United finish above Leicester last season. Granted we have better players, but we do not have THAT much better players than Leicester
If it wasn’t for an injury crisis at Leicester, they likely finish 3rd. Rodgers does more with less of a budget than Ole and has more of a proven track record in help developing and improving players. Ndidi, Tielmans and Maddison for example have all improved under Rodgers’ management.
 

Meadowlark

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If he was at the bottom - and Rodgers was at the top - why did United finish above Leicester last season. Granted we have better players, but we do not have THAT much better players than Leicester
You finished just 4 points ahead of Leicester, so I don't understand what "THAT much" is in reference to.
 

lysglimt

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If it wasn’t for an injury crisis at Leicester, they likely finish 3rd. Rodgers does more with less of a budget than Ole and has more of a proven track record in help developing and improving players. Ndidi, Tielmans and Maddison for example have all improved under Rodgers’ management.
So its for Leicester to have an injury crisis as an excuse - but when we had, it is poor managing ?
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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So its for Leicester to have an injury crisis as an excuse - but when we had, it is poor managing ?
I mean, when your squad has more or less double the market value and you have a less severe injury crisis, then yes that reflects more poorly on management.
 

lysglimt

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I mean, when your squad has more or less double the market value and you have a less severe injury crisis, then yes that reflects more poorly on management.
Look at the squad United started the season with - and tell me if that really is so much better than what Leicester started the season with ? But yes - it shows that our 3 previous managers really amassed a lot of crap players
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Look at the squad United started the season with - and tell me if that really is so much better than what Leicester started the season with ? But yes - it shows that our 3 previous managers really amassed a lot of crap players
I think that's fair in terms of starting XI but at the same time, Leicester's squad was / is significantly thinner and meant they were playing the likes of 33 year old Fuchs at fullback last year.
 

Rossa

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I think that's fair in terms of starting XI but at the same time, Leicester's squad was / is significantly thinner and meant they were playing the likes of 33 year old Fuchs at fullback last year.
And United played an unproven 20 year old right back at left back for great parts of the season.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Solskjær also played one of, if not the youngest squad in PL history last season. Would you also rather have Pereira than Maddison for half the season?
Considering you went and got Bruno and then Maddison went and got himself hurt for the final few months, I'd be very comfortable choosing your situation at the 10 on balance.

It's also not about individual injuries as much as it is concurrent injuries to player groupings - for the last month Leicester's entire back 4 were out at the same time.
 

Rossa

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I mean, I know which one I'd rather have and it ain't Fuchs.
Considering you went and got Bruno and then Maddison went and got himself hurt for the final few months, I'd be very comfortable choosing your situation at the 10 on balance.

It's also not about individual injuries as much as it is concurrent injuries to player groupings - for the last month Leicester's entire back 4 were out at the same time.
Didn’t United have 9 starting players out injured at one point? United had more than their share of injuries. Both Martial and Rashford were out for about two months or so each. What I find interesting is that Solskjær is supposedly inept as a manager; the squad is shaite, yet the team finished third, ahead of Leicester, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham who all have/had superior managers and even squads. Considering United most likely also had the youngest squad and a goalie out of form (chelsea still wins/loses that one), how can Solskjær be as bad as people would make it?
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Didn’t United have 9 starting players out injured at one point? United had more than their share of injuries. Both Martial and Rashford were out for about two months or so each. What I find interesting is that Solskjær is supposedly inept as a manager; the squad is shaite, yet the team finished third, ahead of Leicester, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham who all have/had superior managers and even squads. Considering United most likely also had the youngest squad and a goalie out of form (chelsea still wins/loses that one), how can Solskjær be as bad as people would make it?
Don't think that was for a period as extended as Leicester's was (which was exacerbated by the compressed schedule post-restart). That said, I certainly didn't mean to imply that United had an easy go of it from an injury perspective last year.

Re: Solksjaer, it's an odd one. I don't think any team in the PL right now would swap their manager for him if I'm being honest (you'd probably say the same for Lampard), but at the same time both have emphasized the extent to which understanding the DNA of a club can have value, both in terms of motivating the squad and managing relationships with the hierarchy. Personally, I think Solksjaer can be found wanting tactically at times (too much reliance on individuals, poor pressing generally, limited buildup structure, etc), and fans focus on those things because they're visible. Much of what makes Solksjaer successful at United are the workings behind the scenes, which is hard to account for.
 

Rossa

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Don't think that was for a period as extended as Leicester's was (which was exacerbated by the compressed schedule post-restart). That said, I certainly didn't mean to imply that United had an easy go of it from an injury perspective last year.

Re: Solksjaer, it's an odd one. I don't think any team in the PL right now would swap their manager for him if I'm being honest (you'd probably say the same for Lampard), but at the same time both have emphasized the extent to which understanding the DNA of a club can have value, both in terms of motivating the squad and managing relationships with the hierarchy. Personally, I think Solksjaer can be found wanting tactically at times (too much reliance on individuals, poor pressing generally, limited buildup structure, etc), and fans focus on those things because they're visible. Much of what makes Solksjaer successful at United are the workings behind the scenes, which is hard to account for.
I think I can agree to much of this. Tactics can also be hard to judge as it also goes the other way around. It’s hard to tactically make up for individual feck ups, that our players seem quite fond of lately. I also think there is too much emphasis playing out from the back. Overall, agree with your points! Nice to have a sensible discussion:)
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I think I can agree to much of this. Tactics can also be hard to judge as it also goes the other way around. It’s hard to tactically make up for individual feck ups, that our players seem quite fond of lately. I also think there is too much emphasis playing out from the back. Overall, agree with your points! Nice to have a sensible discussion:)
Agreed - and individual feck ups are also the hallmarks of younger teams, which is a feature of both our clubs at the moment.

There's definitely a balance to be struck between trying to gain an advantage tactically using short buildup play and security, and finding that balance will be critical for both Ole and Lampard. Weirdly though, I think a problem for United is that DDG seems generally to be poor at the low driven diagonal out to the touchline that bypasses the first pressing wave. He can play it short or he can hoof it long, but it's that particular pass that he struggles with from what I've seen.

And cheers! Lovely chat; hope you have a pleasant night!
 

FriendlyFox

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Solskjær also played one of, if not the youngest squad in PL history last season. Would you also rather have Pereira than Maddison for half the season?
1000 times yes. If you asked any Leicester fan if they'd rather have Maddison or Ricardo, then most would probably say Ricardo.

Pereira was our player of the season the previous year, and was probably on course to be our player of the season again that season. We also had a much better replacement for Maddison (Praet) than we did for Ricardo (James Justin - who'd just come from Luton).

As others have said, how many teams do you think would swap their manager for Ole? If it weren't for the fact he was a United legend, he'd have been gone a long while back.

Edit: Whoops, looks like I had the wrong Pereira! Ah well, will leave this here anyway.
 
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TheMagicFoolBus

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1000 times yes. If you asked any Leicester fan if they'd rather have Maddison or Ricardo, then most would probably say Ricardo.

Pereira was our player of the season the previous year, and was probably on course to be our player of the season again that season. We also had a much better replacement for Maddison (Praet) than we did for Ricardo (James Justin - who'd just come from Luton).
Sorry mate not to butt in but he's referencing Andreas Pereira, who had to play as an emergency 10 for United for a spell last fall.

Otherwise I totally agree with you, Ricardo Pereira is absolute class.
 

FriendlyFox

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Sorry mate not to butt in but he's referencing Andreas Pereira, who had to play as an emergency 10 for United for a spell last fall.

Otherwise I totally agree with you, Ricardo Pereira is absolute class.
Whoops, well now I look like a twat :lol: That's what I get for not reading the thread properly!
 

windco

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I wonder what these two have done that’s different to Solskjaer. Apart from Arteta fa cup win, that
Don't really buy this notion he will fail at smaller clubs.

Well I guess it's how you define fail, if you expect him to win titles with them then yes he will "fail" but many other manager's have/are overachieving playing excellent football with lesser sides. Sarri at Empoli, Ralph at Saints right now, Howe at Bournemouth, heck even Holloway managed to get an awful Blackpool squad competitive at this level (yes they went down but the fact they were in with a chance of surviving was a miracle in itself) and he became an attacking manager off the cuff on the advice of a friend.

Not quite sure why Pep wouldn't have achieved the same.
Because Pep has never proven himself to work with tight budget nor without world class player in every position. An absolute chequebook manager he is. Definitely going to relegate smaller team. Look at Norwich last season trying to play fancy football and get themselves relegated that would be the same for Pep
 

Dancfc

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Because Pep has never proven himself to work with tight budget nor without world class player in every position. An absolute chequebook manager he is. Definitely going to relegate smaller team. Look at Norwich last season trying to play fancy football and get themselves relegated that would be the same for Pep
But like I said how do we know? Sarri is basically a poor man's version of Pep and he comfortably kept Empoli up playing possession football (which earned him his shot at the big time) what's to say Pep couldn't have done the same if it came to it? I mean he's not going to because he doesn't have too (if you were the CEO of a supermarket would you voluntary drop to evening shifts on the till?) but many managers have done well at lesser clubs playing 'his' type of football so saying he would relegate similar clubs is presumpious at best.
 

Zlatan 7

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But like I said how do we know? Sarri is basically a poor man's version of Pep and he comfortably kept Empoli up playing possession football (which earned him his shot at the big time) what's to say Pep couldn't have done the same if it came to it? I mean he's not going to because he doesn't have too (if you were the CEO of a supermarket would you voluntary drop to evening shifts on the till?) but many managers have done well at lesser clubs playing 'his' type of football so saying he would relegate similar clubs is presumpious at best.
That supermarket is a crap analogy haha, he wouldn’t be changing jobs managing a shitter team.
Any way, I think the poster has a point more than you think, pep, klopp etc definitely need certain players to play their way, klopp playing his high line with two slow as mid table centrebacks wouldn’t work and neither would peps Tika possession style With players who couldn’t control and pass under pressure. That’s why they buy the best players
 

Sky1981

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That supermarket is a crap analogy haha, he wouldn’t be changing jobs managing a shitter team.
Any way, I think the poster has a point more than you think, pep, klopp etc definitely need certain players to play their way, klopp playing his high line with two slow as mid table centrebacks wouldn’t work and neither would peps Tika possession style With players who couldn’t control and pass under pressure. That’s why they buy the best players
Not really.

Pep needs certain player to win the league and play tiki taka.

He doesnt have to move to stoke but if he ended up at stoke he wont make them play tiki taka but he sure as hell improve them as a team.

If stoke languished 10th he'll probably made them 8th or 6th.

It's like saying a regional manager would suffer if he's managing local branch. He wont. Different battle and different campaign but he wont turn stupid overnight.
 

Zlatan 7

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Not really.

Pep needs certain player to win the league and play tiki taka.

He doesnt have to move to stoke but if he ended up at stoke he wont make them play tiki taka but he sure as hell improve them as a team.

If stoke languished 10th he'll probably made them 8th or 6th.

It's like saying a regional manager would suffer if he's managing local branch. He wont. Different battle and different campaign but he wont turn stupid overnight.
:lol: Get outta here
 

Dancfc

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That supermarket is a crap analogy haha, he wouldn’t be changing jobs managing a shitter team.
Any way, I think the poster has a point more than you think, pep, klopp etc definitely need certain players to play their way, klopp playing his high line with two slow as mid table centrebacks wouldn’t work and neither would peps Tika possession style With players who couldn’t control and pass under pressure. That’s why they buy the best players
I don't disagree but had he been managing say Southampton he would sign appropriate players in that level of the game and would finish around 8th-12th and the fans would be entertained which would be a good achievement with what he would have.

Also another example is the much maligned Lampard, took over a Derby side from a Gary Rowett who by all accounts makes Pulis look like an expressive coach and went to the play off final (one better than Rowett) playing open expressive football, I don't see how doing something like that would have been beyond Pep if he truly had to do it to earn his trade (he was lucky to get the Barca job as soon as he did but there's no luck involved in the fact he's still at the top of the game 12 years on).
 

RashyForPM

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Going to bump this thread to do my updated ranking. I remember I put Ole 18th in a fit of annoyance after a run of poor results, which is obviously wrong. Many managers have proven to be better than others this season as well.

1) Klopp - lucky to be 1st
2) Mourinho - unlucky to be 2nd
3) Pep
4) Bielsa
5) Rodgers
6) Ancelotti
7) Nuno
8) Hassenhuttl
9) Ole
10) Fat Frank - unlucky to be below Ole, a flip of a coin thing
11) Moyes - he is criminally underrated
12) Potter
13) Smith
14) Hodgson
15) Dyche
16) Wilder - still creating loads of chances, not his fault he has poor strikers
17) Arteta - unlucky to be this low, although people may also find 17th generous
18) Bruce
19) Bilic
20) Parker - out of his depth, the one Championship level manager on this list
 

sewey89

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I find it utterly insane that it was only 27 days ago that Arteta was classed as 'Elite' in that article.
 

ForeverRed1

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Arteta is elite, ole sacked soon? Have a little look at the league table now and give ya head a wobble .. reactive bs!

win our game in hand and we’re two points off liverpool and Tottenham... and that’s despite our shaky start!

top of the group in champs league... it’ in our hands ...
 
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I think people are so seriously overrating Bielsa. Apart from getting Leeds promoted (which in fairness isn't that great an achievment) - what has he done as a club manager ?

He was poor at Espanyol until he decided to leave to take over Argentina (after 9 matches)

He was poor at Bilbao - apart from a good run in Europe - but ended up in a conflict with the board and was not offered a new contract. In fairness the poor results was partially down to Martinez being sold and Llorente frozen out by the club. But it doesn't change the fact that the results were poor.

He did quite good at Marseille - but resigned after disagreement with the board

Took charge of Lazio and then resigned before a match had been played - because the board didnt get him the players he wanted

At Lille he basically kicked 13 experienced players out of the club to go with younger players - which in itself isn't necessarily wrong, but when you start the season with 6 points in 11 matches you are in trouble. Results actually improved quite a bit just before he got fired - but he picked up just 20 points in 19 matches.
he took over a Leeds team that finished 14th in the Championship. In one summer he transformed their style of play, didn’t sign a whole new 11 to do it, he could/should have got promoted in his first year but “sportsmanship” cost his team.

He’s a great coach.
 

Skills

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New pecking order?

I think i'd have Conte behind Guardiola & Klopp, but ahead of Tuchel based on their careers so far.
 

tomaldinho1

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New pecking order?

I think i'd have Conte behind Guardiola & Klopp, but ahead of Tuchel based on their careers so far.
Definitely better career but underachieved in CL. I’d just put them together though given Conte’s real success in the PL was introducing the back 5 and now he’s coming back and everyone is more used to dealing with it. That will be four genuinely world class managers in the PL, all with very different playing styles.