Didn’t mean you bud. Many others are. For no good reason.
FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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The FA strive for inclusion and acceptance for all. Just don’t speak your native language you bloody foreigner.
I know it’s a different language, a different culture, and he was referring to a person who of course didn’t take any offense. It was not a racist post. All I am saying is that with little bit of common sense he could avoid all the trouble and wouldnt face a potential 3 game ban which is going to hurt himself and the club.
Thanks (again) for the measured, detailed response. Really interesting, especially about how you chat with your brother. I use slang terms for my mates/family too (and them for me
).Always good to get something "first hand" rather than from someone who thinks that because of their profession/ years of poring over hundreds of books, they're entitled to preach to us in a condescending tone like we're students.
There's lot of posts/opinions on here that I disagree with but can see their view/reasons. But I find it amazingly arrogant that some people can decide how to translate another person's language and determine the translation and meaning of that individual.
I hope you and yours are all staying safe.
There was no indiscretion. You’re wrong.
Its nothing to do with speaking his language and do to with referring to someone by their colour/race. Which is acceptable in Latin America but not here
Of course he didn't really do anything wrong from a personal point of view, but he broke the FA rules (whether the rules are right or not is another question)
Exactly this
I'm assuming the waiver exists because it will be majorly problematic for foreign people working in the UK. not being able to use their own mother tongue in their natural way. hypothetically, what if they don't have other ways of saying certain things for example? There are thousands of languages spoken in the UK alone.
Also how is referencing someone's ethnic background an offence or crime? So if describe someone as hispanic or arabic in appearance, would the FA take objection to this if I was a footballer and posted this on social media?
More likely increased to 5 on appeal due to the audacity of suggesting that the FA can't decide what every person/language/slangish term in the world means.
Why is it up to you to “accept” someone’s political compass?
Chase you? I have no clue who you are. Maybe you know me but I assure you I have no idea who you are or any posts you’ve ever made.
Cool for you. I also don’t give a shit what your head of program told you.
It isn’t common sense to know every language in the world. So calm down, lose the ego and behave like an adult
Consider the cultural differences before passing judgement on the guy.
The comparisons with the Suarez incident are unfounded. One was as a scornful remark, the other a term of endearment. They are two separate issues.
Context is what's important here, and hopefully the FA recognize that fact when assessing the situation.
Unfortunetely this may be the case. The FA operate in their own rules set.
Apparently it's a 3-game ban minimum if found guilty.
Would you call someone who is Arabic "hey little arabic"? If you did and you didn't know them well do you think they may take offense? Even if you did know them well do you think they may take offense?
Its a different culture in Latin America, but in the context of the UK I think you know full well it wouldn't be appropriate to do so here. Thats the main difference in the cultures, not saying either is right or wrong.
Youre making the mistake of translating it though
He's allowed to speak his native language. He just isn't allowed to refer to someone by skin colour on social media (if indeed that is a breach of the guidelines). If a given term in any language does that, you can't use that term. That's not the same as saying he can't speak Spanish, in the same way as punishing the use of any given term in English wouldn't amount to people being told not to speak English.
The exaggeration in this thread is nuts.
It was. He deleted his post which prove that he didn’t think of the consequences. The bolded is definition of indiscretion.
I am fascinated by your debating skills, by the way. Don’t care to reply, you won and I was wrong.
To those saying Cavani should have been sensitive to the misunderstanding that might follow using phrases that have something in common with the n**** word, Negro is Spanish for the word/colour Black. Which means unless you are going to tell Spanish speakers to never use the correct word for the colour black, they are going to be using the word negro a lot
What's really concerning is that to make a fuss out of Cavani's entirely non-racist post is damaging to the wider attempts in society and football to curb actual racism
What's really concerning is that to make a fuss out of Cavani's entirely non-racist post is damaging to the wider attempts in society and football to curb actual racism
Christ, just read the Suarez vs Evra case and stop making things up.
Nevertheless, we have taken account of the fact that the words were said in Spanish by a Uruguayan player to a French player who speaks Spanish. We have also had regard to the Spanish language expert evidence about how particular uses of "negro" and comments using "negro" would or might be understood in Uruguay. However, ultimately our task is to decide whether in our view the words or behaviour were abusive or insulting in the circumstances in which they took place in this match played in England under the FA Rules.
The word that Cavani used isn't racist, and it was used in a positive context.
He's speaking his own language. A word that in his language does not have the negative translation that people seem to believe it does.
The acceptance of words is cultural? What a load of tosh.
The acceptance of words is based on language.
If the word he was using was a literal translation calling someone an abusive word then fair enough, but its not. Its not for us to change what a word in another language means because it looks similar.
If im speaking to a friend and an gay american hears me ask him to buy me some fags, he cant get tell me im being offensive by referring to cigs as fags.
It's not the N word
No. It's called freedom. You're free to do as you will as long as it's within the moral and legal bounds. And his actions were.
Just because FA wants to be ... can't even find a proper description for them... but I think they should stay out of it.
Imagine if on live TV Cavani says "Give me the black boots" in his native language. My word... The FA will lose their mind.
Look, the fact is Cavani plays in England. You can’t refer to someone’s race even in terms of endearment. If I said to one of my black pals “cheers for the round blackie” I’d get glassed. You say it’s not racism but it is, just widely accepted and deep rooted.
An overwhelming vast majority of English won't give a feck. It's a small core of thought policing busybodies leading the charge to cow the rest by tarring them with the epithet racist.
You know the funny thing? It's the people that want to create a problem that create this. If it get's removed, people forget within a day. That's hows sad some people are with their agendas. Grow up. Man people get abused all the time, but certain things get's the attention of people who want to offend people. Now it's different if we actually believe he intentionally wanted to hurt someone. Does anyone believe this? To me it's a non issue. If it's a cultural thing, then he's ignorant at best and removed it. But it's people with no life that want to get everyone riled up because they have no life and they do it for their own sad agenda and they are so weak they cannot even rationalise and interpret. The people pushing this are spoilt.
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This is woke culture 101, and its out of control in the western world.
Social media has garnered this, giving people a platform to stamp their feet and create a drama about anything to make themselves feel important, probably because nothing else going on in their lives.
You'd have thought that in these times of international crisis and pandemic, people would have more to worry about than silly misdemeanours and non stories.
Social media has garnered this, giving people a platform to stamp their feet and create a drama about anything to make themselves feel important, probably because nothing else going on in their lives.
You'd have thought that in these times of international crisis and pandemic, people would have more to worry about than silly misdemeanours and non stories.
The obsession with trying to make a race issue out of everything is nuts too.
I cant see bim being banned he obviously meant it affectionate its one of those things where words in a different language have another meaning in others. In the US for example using 2 fingers at someone isnt offensive it just means 2 but over here it means eff off
No I am saying the difference is referring to race is normal there and not here. Forget translations that is the difference
Where did I say the word is racist and what did I make up? Maybe it is you making things up? Just read the post
The word refers to the race of the individual which is normal in that culture and not here. It also wouldn't be appropriate in the UK for me to say hey "Nice white fella" its purely a cultural difference which is what I was explaining.
No where have I said its racist
The FA rules state you cannot refer to race, ethnicity, sexuality and a few other things. Whether in a positive or negative way, as I said before whether the rule is right or not is a separate matter
Obviously Cavani was not trying to be racist. The context clearly proves that.
It was very silly of him to post that, though. It shows a lack of awareness. If you insist on having a public social media profile, get someone to translate to English (the most widely spoken language) and edit if necessary.
It shouldn't even result in a fine. No one was harmed and I very much doubt that any black person will wake up today and give a shit, if they know the context.
It was very silly of him to post that, though. It shows a lack of awareness. If you insist on having a public social media profile, get someone to translate to English (the most widely spoken language) and edit if necessary.
It shouldn't even result in a fine. No one was harmed and I very much doubt that any black person will wake up today and give a shit, if they know the context.
What do you mean? Almost every single country in the Americas is a settler-colonial society or is descended from one. They've obviously ended up with very different cultures for the most part but many of them have a similar background. White Europeans turn up, exterminate the local population through a mixture of war and disease and import large number of black people from Africa to 'work' as slaves. Meanwhile white Europeans, whether from North, East, Central, South or West, continue to turn up.
So yeah, South Americans also treated black people as shit, in exactly the same way. Slavery was only abolished in Argentina in the mid 1800s. Also Argentina is a stunning country with great people but I was pretty struck by the almost total absence of black people in that country compared to, for instance, Brazil or Colombia, god knows what happened to them.
Very strange approach to pretend the South Americans and what they do are somehow divorced from European history and culture or that racism isn't widespread and prevalent across South American countries.
Didnt he use that word for Bruno? surely that doesnt count as being racist because Bruno is a football cyborg, not human.
(Not after an argument, just a comment).
I get the idea from that guys'/girls' post and others that they're saying the word is simply a descriptive word to distinguish someone. (See Antohans post about how/what he calls his own brother).
I don't think anyone is saying "lanky" or "fat" are the same as race per se, just that some languages/cultures use descriptive words in a certain way and it naturally looks different to people from a different culture who assume it's meant in a negative/derogatory manner.
Other language speakers/cultures can say "tough Cavani, WE view it like this" but I don't think we can overlay our cultural opinions on other people's without any consideration. In the same way that if I said a word that was totally innocent in English but offended another group of people after it had been incorrectly translated, I'd maybe expect them to listen/understand my meaning.
I'm not debating the term, but given how profile the word was during that saga he should have avoided using it, you know just a bit of common sense.
It would be interesting to see if his brother calls him whitey?
Why is it always the darker skinned people who get identified by the colour of their skin?
It wouldn't be common sense for his culture
what he says below. I learnt at age 13, never to translate things from foreign languages to English and vice versa, word for word in literal translations. It makes no sense and just does not work
Unfortunately as pointed out earlier, this is how Spanish speakers speak. 600million odd people worldwide. Their language uses physical features to talk about people. You are in a way suggesting they cannot speak Spanish as this is the normal way of speaking their language. You are trying to force them to adapt their native language to suit English football rules. I don't know what other countries this would be enforced. What is this novel Spanish that is allowed on social media in England? What shall we name it? If you was describing an unnamed black girl, you would say "La Negra" in Spanish. So are we going to provide them a list of other options in Spanish? "you can speak in Spanish, just not properly"
The FA may have to put together a pseudo spanish language for them that can replace their dialect
. Each language has different rules and I understood this from school. You cannot simply just apply English rules to foreign languages. It won't work. it would just be easier if English speaker didn't bother trying to translate things in languages they don't understand nor even want to learn.- Status