Nailed it right here.
FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break
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This just isnt one of them
Nobody is saying there arent racially offensive words in other languages?
This just isnt one of them
I am not saying that it should be acceptable. If Cavani had said 'Thanks, n****' then yes, that is not acceptable. What he said was 'Grazias, Negrito' which means that there is no reason at all to translate it to English, it was a sentence in Spanish, said from a South American to another South American. You just check if that is allowed in Spanish or not, and by all accounts, negro/negrito can be inoffensive, neutral, or even friendly.
Bingo.
I’m Asian and wouldn’t give two fecks if a friend called me a nickname in relation to my skin tone. Stop being so damn sensitive.
Not unheard of at all and they do use it to describe people who are just darker than them but may not be seen as 'black' in most other contexts.
As I said, I have no interest in going to Uruguay or Colombia (where I worked) and trying to change how they use their language, nor did I even particularly challenge them when there. But I would have a very different reaction if someone called me negrito in the UK (though in Cavani's case, as someone who's just turned up, it would be a gentle request not to repeat it and a quick update on the cultural appropriateness of it in a British context).
But you're missing the point. Even in the best case scenario where the term is meant as a "term of endearment", why is it only black people that are reduced to their skin colour? Is there an equivalent "Thanks whitey" which is also used as a "term of endearment"? I suspect you already know the answer to that.
So your best case scenario is Cavani saying "Thanks black guy". What does the person's blackness have to do with anything again? Let's see your bone-headed response.
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To all those defending use of this word with U.K Because it’s a Spanish word and has context: @Revan
What happens tomorrow when white people around UK start calling black people ‘negrito’ and then claim they are using the word as a term of endearment, as its is supposedly used in Spanish cultures. What’s your response?
looking forward to replies.
Absolutely pissing me right off, everyone and the scousers in particular comparing this to the Surarez incident, you only need to read the FA report to realise it was two totally separate situations.
The original comment was talking about describing a black woman. Then you asked your question. Imo the implication of your comment was that referring to skin colour at all was wrong. Seems like I was wrong. But looks like it's not so simple to interpret meaning even without having to translate it. To me what you said seemed hypocritical and ignorant but clearly you didn't mean it like that.
In English yes. In a different language that you do not even speak, why should you tell them how to speak it?
Should a Chinese person be allowed to say 'ne ga' (which is more or less spelled like the n-word) and means 'that' while he is in England, or he should find another term for that?
I agree with your first point - it's been covered to death now but some people seem insistent on ignoring this and instead applying their own misguided logic to a subject they know nothing about
But I would take issue with your second point - negro is not a synonym for black. Synonym means an alternative, but Negro is the actual Spanish word for black. The only word in Spanish for black.
If you buy a black car in Spain, it's 'coche negro', coche being Spanish for car. There is literally no other way in Spanish to describe your black car (or black jacket, or black ink, or black plastic guttering, or black anything) without using the word negro. Well that's unless we propose to Spanish speakers that they either change their word for black to an entirely new word so as not to offend some idiots in our country, or tell them to use the phrase 'that colour we can't reference by name that starts with an 'n'.
That’s up to you, but you don’t decide the law, which is very different.
Indeed. These descriptions are usually rooted in racial discrimination although it may have evolved into a term of endearment where Cavani is from. For this reason, I think there should be a punishment but in a form of a fine, it will raise awareness rather than it being swept under the rug and it happening again.
This is another interesting point. Should foreign words/phrases have connotations outside of their native countries if they don't mean the same thing elsewhere and they tell us this?
Is this righteous or should we leave it to others to speak in their normal dialect?
Very complicated
Nobody is saying that. My point is that a word being acceptable in one country or culture does not make it so, especially when you are in another culture.
I've read the message sent. What I'm saying still stands. An Egyptian from Cairo may 'jokingly' call his Nubian Egyptian friend 'Abd'. If Salah did that, on a public profile, I would expect there to be a backlash as well, preferably with some education as to the current cultural context in which he lives, rather than a ban.
Trying not to offend anyone, ever, is actually exhausting.
Well you can 'suspect' all you want but you are completely and utterly wrong. As in not even in the right forest, let alone barking up the right tree
They're not Spanish and reside in the UK so it's not going to happen is it.
The word has no meaning here and should it pop up in our society tomorrow I've no doubt it would be filed under the undesirables category as it sounds similar to 'negro' which is considered offensive. But it's apples and oranges... Uruguay and the UK are two completely different cultures and languages.
So this might come across as really dumb whataboutery, but it was absolutely standard in East Africa to be called 'Mzungu' or some variation thereof with (at least as far as I was aware!) no malice or negative connotations intended. There's obvious difference with the power balance at play here, but would you be arguing that using that term would be unacceptable by an East African who had moved to the UK?
Negro is seen as offensive in Anglo countries because of its cultural context. It is not in Spanish speaking countries because, as you rightly say, it is the literal descriptive word for a colour.
Of course, nobody, either on here, or probably ever, has suggested that Spanish speakers should stop using the word negro and I don't find such extremes particularly helpful.
Do you think the sort of dipshits who would do this are going to learn Spanish then?
It stems from a culture where there is no word for 'mate' as others have said, so instead, people are referenced by their physical characteristics. That can include ginger if they have ginger hair, or referencing them by the fact they wear glasses. Hence this has nothing to do with superiority of whites over blacks. There are racism problems in South America, which are heavily linked to how dark your skin is. However they have nothing whatsoever to do with the word negro or negrito. As you rightly say, it is completely different in the UK and has no reason to pop up in society here
I have no idea what ‘punishment’ is sufficient to make the point but your suggestion sounds perfectly fine, especially as it’s obvious Cavani didn’t know UK context and also didn’t intend harm or offence.
If FA are smart, they can use this incident as a great way to raise awareness of this issue amongst Spanish speakers inside U.K.
So why isnt this as bad as what Suarez said then?
Is it all just context?
Is it all just context?
That's simply not true.
You're right of course that the power balance is totally and utterly different here. Muzungu is also used as a more broad term towards anyone who they see as not being properly 'African' (for instance, I got called Muzungu in Uganda as they saw me as a Westernised African and my wife got called Muzungu, even though she's half Egyptian).
That is the greatest difference (and despite what some on here seem to be trying to argue, black people have had a pretty terrible time of it in South America, it wasn't some harmonious racial free for all). Regardless, I don't like referring to people by their colour so yeah, I don't think it is necessary or particularly appropriate to be doing so in the UK. And, as with negrito, I did not go around Uganda telling people to shut up and not use muzungu.
context and intent
they can claim that it’s a term of endearment cos some on redcafe proves it so.
Can I now refer to @africanspur as negrito on this forum all the time and tell the mods it’s a Spanish term of endearment so they can ban me for doing so?
Good post and I’m embarrassed you’ve had to wade through this thread
These posts don’t sit well with me at all. Troy Deeney faces horrendous amounts of racial abuse, he’s also had his family racially abused. He’s involved in combatting racism and ignorance in the sport and has spoke at length on the subject, so to comment that he only has an opinion when it comes to racism in football because he’s ‘ultra woke’ or desperate for attention is misguided at best, and pretty fecking shit at worst.
Hilarious and tragic
Well firstly, they said different things...
Secondly, Suarez told Evra that he was aggravating him because he's black. And then proceeded to tell Evra that he doesn't talk to blacks.
Completely different scenarios on almost every level.
Which is actually the most important thing when judging these situations IMO.
I don't think the FA is going to see it that way, unfortunately.
If that had been the case, there wouldn't be an issue.
What actually happened is that he posted it on social media. Which means it was in for public attention. Which means the public get to have an opinion, even those who aren't South American. It also means it falls under the FA's social media guidelines.
If the FA's social media guidelines say you can't refer to the colour of someone's skin in addressing them then the language you do so in is irrelevant. Unless there's a waiver in the rules for foreign languages that i haven't heard referenced yet, of course.
It's a simple as that. He either broke the rules or he didn't. If he wants to address his friends that way without consequence then his options are either to use a forum that isn't public or to work in a league that doesn't have those rules.
Assuming it is a breach of their rules, that is. He hasn't actually been charged yet.
It isn’t just black people. Asian latinos, white latinos, brown latinos all have terms. It isn’t even used to those specific races. In a close circle of friends, even if they’re all “brown” mestizos or mixed race as is common in Latin America, they’ll refer to the darkest friend as negrito, the fattest one gordito, the lightest skin friend as the guero/branquela ( or whatever term used for whitey), the one with the smallest eyes is called chinito, yes even if they’re not Asian at all.
people in U.K. have this issue because of how their language has evolved.
It's best if everyone just stopped referring people by the colour of their skin, esp darker skinned people who by no coincidence mostly get subjected to these descriptions, and I wonder why? No one wants to answer the question, as their justifications fall flat. We have names and there are a 1000 other ways of greeting people without seeing the need to call them by the colour of their skin.
I saw somewhere mentioning possible 3 games ban for this, really? ANY kind of ban for this is a moronic decision, let alone 3 games. 
There is no UK context. It literally does not have an English translation so there isnt anything to be upset about.
Which is ironic since we are told context doesn't matter when all they have to go on to punish Cavani is context itself.
Not gonna happen.
This is the FA we are talking about.
Safe to say that Cavani isn't some far-right neo-nazi who hates every minority on earth. However, racism isn't just violence and hatred with direct hate speech towards people of different ethnicity. It's also stereotypes and perpetuating them by using a certain type of language, making a certain type of jokes etc. What you do or say can be racist despite you not being racist yourself. This needs to understood if we want to get rid of racism in football. Again, I'm not saying that Cavani is a racist, but for the FA, who publicly supports BLM and been throwing various anti-racist campaigns for decades, it would sure be counterintuitive to just dismiss this case as a cultural difference thing.
I am from a country that is so white that you could easily live your entire life without seeing a black person on the street, and where the n-word has been the main word to describe the black people, until about 10 years ago the official grammar and language board added the "*negative connotation" behind it, a lot of older people are now furious because "that's how we've always called them!". I also remember back in middle-school all these white kids who just discovered Eminem and 50 Cent went around the school calling each other n***as, very endearing isn't it. Were they all racists? Probably not. Was their use of language racist out of ignorance? Yes. Would have they been in trouble if they went on a trip to London or NY acting like that? Yes. Cavani isn't a kid or a grandpa from Eastern Europe, though, he should be more aware of things like that.
What I'd like to say is that, let the FA do their thing and let's hope they make the right decision. Cavani is a big boy, he'll live and learn from it. No point of yelling "PC gone too far" and "stop the cancel culture". If we want to get rid of racism in the Premier League, things like this will also have to be addressed, let's not play victims here, it's for the greater good. Need to break some eggs to make an omlette and all that.
I am from a country that is so white that you could easily live your entire life without seeing a black person on the street, and where the n-word has been the main word to describe the black people, until about 10 years ago the official grammar and language board added the "*negative connotation" behind it, a lot of older people are now furious because "that's how we've always called them!". I also remember back in middle-school all these white kids who just discovered Eminem and 50 Cent went around the school calling each other n***as, very endearing isn't it. Were they all racists? Probably not. Was their use of language racist out of ignorance? Yes. Would have they been in trouble if they went on a trip to London or NY acting like that? Yes. Cavani isn't a kid or a grandpa from Eastern Europe, though, he should be more aware of things like that.
What I'd like to say is that, let the FA do their thing and let's hope they make the right decision. Cavani is a big boy, he'll live and learn from it. No point of yelling "PC gone too far" and "stop the cancel culture". If we want to get rid of racism in the Premier League, things like this will also have to be addressed, let's not play victims here, it's for the greater good. Need to break some eggs to make an omlette and all that.
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