Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

Bird Nerd · Dec 3, 2020

Ole is a conundrum. At times he looks like a good manager. Others like he is far out of a top level coach's element. Such as last night. I fully place the blame on him first for the loss for not pulling Fred at the half as we all were asking for. And second would be the blame to our pathetic finishing. Matial being the most wasteful.....again. But in the end I would liek to see Ole gone and this squad managed by someone more ruthless than Ole and with a better game-lane for each match.

luke511 · Dec 3, 2020

romufc said:
Yes, every club goes through bad recruitment. The clubs you have mentioned also make decisions to reverse those failings. Kovac was gone, Setien was gone, Sarri was gone.

Klopp still took them back to 7th unlike Poch, he was sacked. Klopp won them the league title and got them to a CL final against a very good Bayern team too.

Rodgers was gone after 8 games, 6 points of the top.

Klopp was available and Liverpool got him before anyone else came in, Poch has been available for a year now. If the club think he is the right man, then why is Poch not been hired?

Pochettino could've got them back up if given the chance to finish the season like Klopp was, they finished 6th so it probably wouldn't have been far off. Pochettino hasn't been hired because he wants to stay in England, Liverpool have Klopp, City have Pep and Chelsea have Lampard. Real Madrid was a possibility but Zidane agreed to come back, Barcelona is off limits due to his Espanyol history. So in the time he's been out of work, there hasn't been a right opportunity for him really. He's obviously got his eyes on the Utd job, you can't criticise his patience for waiting for the right role.

AshRK · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
You're rewriting history here. Ole could have got someone of the ilk of Ighalo/Cavani the summer of last year too, I remember Giroud or Llorente being mentioned as options back then, but he chose not to. Ole only wanted young "United players" for the future back then. Also the board didn't fail to get Håland, he himself turned us down, and we didn't want to include a get out clause a few years later in his contract.

Chelsea were never selling Giroud so don't know where you are getting that from. Llorente? Seriously. I would take cavani ahead of Llorente.

But anyways the other poster was blaming Ole for not signing an attacker when he specifically asked for an attacker. It's not his job personally to get the players. He wanted an attacker and the board continued to dither when they could have signed cavani in July itself and he could have been ready in September.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

luke511 said:
Pochettino could've got them back up if given the chance to finish the season like Klopp was, they finished 6th so it probably wouldn't have been far off. Pochettino hasn't been hired because he wants to stay in England, Liverpool have Klopp, City have Pep and Chelsea have Lampard. Real Madrid was a possibility but Zidane agreed to come back, Barcelona is off limits due to his Espanyol history. So in the time he's been out of work, there hasn't been a right opportunity for him really. He's obviously got his eyes on the Utd job, you can't criticise his patience for waiting for the right role.

If he was that good shouldn’t Chelsea be sacking lampard for him?

romufc · Dec 3, 2020

amolbhatia50k said:
It absolutely does matter. Which is why managers Ike Mourinho and LVG picked United. As it was an honour for them to manage such a huge club. It's why we keep signing big name players like Pogba and co despite often not being in the CL. It's why we're very rich and were trying to bring Bindesligas biggest talent in as opposed to our player wanting to go there.

LVG was at his peak of his powers when he joined us?

Jose had just been sacked from Chelsea. It must be an honour for Jose to work for Spurs then right without CL football?

It was an honour for Jose to manage United? Saw alot of honour at his press conference after Sevilla.

We sign players like Pogba and co because we are a club that pay big wages. Im sure Alexis chose us because it was an honour to play for United and nothing to do with the 350k a week.

Pogba wants to leave and has done for the last 3 years.

Haaland and Bellingham both chose Dortmund over United.

luke511 · Dec 3, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
If he was that good shouldn’t Chelsea be sacking lampard for him?

Lampard's doing a great job there, why would they sack him?

romufc · Dec 3, 2020

luke511 said:
Pochettino could've got them back up if given the chance to finish the season like Klopp was, they finished 6th so it probably wouldn't have been far off. Pochettino hasn't been hired because he wants to stay in England, Liverpool have Klopp, City have Pep and Chelsea have Lampard. Real Madrid was a possibility but Zidane agreed to come back, Barcelona is off limits due to his Espanyol history. So in the time he's been out of work, there hasn't been a right opportunity for him really. He's obviously got his eyes on the Utd job, you can't criticise his patience for waiting for the right role.

I am not criticising Poch for waiting on the United job. I am criticising United. There must be a reason why he is waiting on the United job right?

So if United think he is the man to take us forward, why are we waiting for Ole to fail and its all doom and gloom? Be ruthless and make the decision.

This is what I am saying, we are always reactive in the market, be it the players or managers.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

luke511 said:
Lampard's doing a great job there, why would they sack him?

But Ole is doing a disastrous job here?

MyBloodIsRed · Dec 3, 2020

I thought overall the team was set up well. Cavani off the bar, Bruno and Martial could’ve scored. Fred lucky to be on in 2nd half. IMO, Ole should’ve recognized that Fred was too rash in many tackles and combined with PSG’s antics it was always going to be another yellow for Fred at some point. inexcusable to not pull him off before we were down to 10

RkkMan · Dec 3, 2020

AshRK said:
Chelsea were never selling Giroud so don't know where you are getting that from. Llorente? Seriously. I would take cavani ahead of Llorente.

But anyways the other poster was blaming Ole for not signing an attacker when he specifically asked for an attacker. It's not his job personally to get the players. He wanted an attacker and the board continued to dither when they could have signed cavani in July itself and he could have been ready in September.

If you followed the window closely you`ll know Atletico and Juve were after Cavani early in the window but were put off by his huge wage demands at the time, same case would have likely happened to us. By the time we went for him we were his only choice so he had to accept a more reasonable package(170k a week thats less than his PSG wages) or risk sitting out another year without football. Him not coming early was not a disaster

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

AshRK said:
Chelsea were never selling Giroud so don't know where you are getting that from. Llorente? Seriously. I would take cavani ahead of Llorente.

But anyways the other poster was blaming Ole for not signing an attacker when he specifically asked for an attacker. It's not his job personally to get the players. He wanted an attacker and the board continued to dither when they could have signed cavani in July itself and he could have been ready in September.

Ah I got mistaken with Giroud. That was last January when there was talk of him leaving Chelsea. I'm not on about this summer. Llorente was a free agent the summer we let Lukaku go. We wouldn't have had to scramble around for Ighalo, or rely on Rashford up front for months if we got him or someone else like him in instead.

I don't agree with this argument at all. If Ole thought signing an attacker was the biggest priority, why did he choose to spend £130m on two defenders in his first summer, whilst letting Lukaku go without even replacing him with a bench option?

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

RkkMan said:
If you followed the window closely you`ll know Atletico and Juve were after Cavani early in the window but were put off by his huge wage demands at the time, same case would have likely happened to us. By the time we went for him we were his only choice so he had to accept a more reasonable package(170k a week thats less than his PSG wages) or risk sitting out another year without football. Him not coming early was not a disaster

Yeah, this.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

I’ve seen it all now,
lampards doing a great job at Chelsea so shouldn’t be sacked for pochetino.

Ole is doing a shit job and should be sacked for pochetino

Chelsea look just as inconsistent, we finished above them last year, same points this if we win our game in hand. Similar cup runs last year wasn’t it? Frank struggled with the defence big time last year and had to go out buying. Ole sorted our defence to have one of the best defensive records in the league. What’s the massive difference?

I guess frank makes great subs!!!

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
I’ve seen it all now,
lampards doing a great job at Chelsea so shouldn’t be sacked for pochetino.

Ole is doing a shit job and should be sacked for pochetino

Chelsea look just as inconsistent, we finished above them last year, same points this if we win our game in hand. Similar cup runs last year wasn’t it? Frank struggled with the defence big time last year and had to go out buying. Ole sorted our defence to have one of the best defensive records in the league. What’s the massive difference?

I guess frank makes great subs!!!

What are you on about? Who cares about what happens at Chelsea?

This is Manchester United. We should have the best manager we can get. Not an apprentice learning on the job.

I've seen the same mistakes for two years now. We will never win anything under Ole. So we can either keep our heads in the sand until it's too late, or we can be ready to swoop for the best manager we can find. I know which option I'm in favour of.

romufc · Dec 3, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
I’ve seen it all now,
lampards doing a great job at Chelsea so shouldn’t be sacked for pochetino.

Ole is doing a shit job and should be sacked for pochetino

Chelsea look just as inconsistent, we finished above them last year, same points this if we win our game in hand. Similar cup runs last year wasn’t it? Frank struggled with the defence big time last year and had to go out buying. Ole sorted our defence to have one of the best defensive records in the league. What’s the massive difference?

I guess frank makes great subs!!!

Also don't forget, he has consistent team selection and tactics in every game.

He comes to Old trafford plays a 5 back and doesnt attack, is consistent to how he played at the start of the season with a 4-2-2-2, which is also consistent with his 4-3-3 now.

His team selections are consistent too. He also plays players rests some of his new signings in games or puts Pulisic or them on the bench. Perhaps he didnt want them thats why they dont play 90 mins of every game.

AshRK · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
Ah I got mistaken with Giroud. That was last January when there was talk of him leaving Chelsea. I'm not on about this summer. Llorente was a free agent the summer we let Lukaku go. We wouldn't have had to scramble around for Ighalo, or rely on Rashford up front for months if we got him or someone else like him in instead.

I don't agree with this argument at all. If Ole thought signing an attacker was the biggest priority, why did he choose to spend £130m on two defenders in his first summer, whilst letting Lukaku go without even replacing him with a bench option?

Because defenders were the priority then. We needed a RB and a CB. Could we have spent wisely? yes but how is Ole to be blamed for Board's incompetence is beyond me. Why do we always dither till the very last day and then end up blaming manager. And the same thing happened with Jose and Van gaal too so it's not just Ole who suffered from this. If you are not going to spend 100 m on Sancho why don't you let the manager know before the summer itself. Sancho's price was known to us in March itself and Covid hit in March so it was not a surprise to anyone. Why did we continue to pursue Sancho till the very last day of the window. Similar stuff happened with Maguire. Everyone knew Leicester's demands but yet we continued to buy without having a plan B.

We are the only club where the manager is questioned for not being able to negotiate with other clubs or paying high wages to players. Do you seriously think our club can do a business like Chelsea did this season, where they buy 6 to 7 players in one window itself and solve majority issue? No, so hence we have to utilise each window wisely. People keep on saying but but we spent 130m on defenders so we automatically should look great, that's not how it works. If it was that easy we would have dominated the world football since SAF retired.

RedDevil@84 · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
We should have the best manager we can get. Not an apprentice learning on the job

So no Poch then

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
What are you on about? Who cares about what happens at Chelsea?

This is Manchester United. We should have the best manager we can get. Not an apprentice learning on the job.

I've seen the same mistakes for two years now. We will never win anything under Ole. So we can either keep our heads in the sand until it's too late, or we can be ready to swoop for the best manager we can find. I know which option I'm in favour of.

If Poch was that good I’m sure he would have been taken by now

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

RedDevil@84 said:
So no Poch then

Zlatan 7 said:
If Poch was that good I’m sure he would have been taken by now

Did I mention Poch? I don't care who it is, as long as the ambition to find the very best is there.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

romufc said:
Also don't forget, he has consistent team selection and tactics in every game.

He comes to Old trafford plays a 5 back and doesnt attack, is consistent to how he played at the start of the season with a 4-2-2-2, which is also consistent with his 4-3-3 now.

His team selections are consistent too. He also plays players rests some of his new signings in games or puts Pulisic or them on the bench. Perhaps he didnt want them thats why they dont play 90 mins of every game.

Of course

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
Did I mention Poch? I don't care who it is, as long as the ambition is there to find the very best by the club.

Don’t leave us hanging... who?

Nou_Camp99 · Dec 3, 2020

DomesticTadpole said:
We have been missing chances for years in fact, so either you coach them to be better goalscorers or if that isn't changing anything you get rid and buy ones who can take their chances.

I seem to remember our current manager trying to get Haaland. Woodward n co couldn't get the deal done. He's also just signed Cavani who very much still looks like he's got something to offer. So Ole is very much trying to address that issue clearly.

RedDevil@84 · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
Did I mention Poch? I don't care who it is, as long as the ambition is there to find the very best by the club.

Just sayin. I am not even sure who is this "top manager" whom we can bring in. Klopp and Pep are out of question.
We tried Jose. Did not work.

romufc · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
Did I mention Poch? I don't care who it is, as long as the ambition to find the very best is there.

It's clear the club believe Ole is the best man for the job.. then whats the issue?

SAFMUTD · Dec 3, 2020

Im Ole out but yesterday's lost is not on him, its on Martial. You can't be missing those chances and expect to win.

gza the genius · Dec 3, 2020

MyBloodIsRed said:
I thought overall the team was set up well. Cavani off the bar, Bruno and Martial could’ve scored. Fred lucky to be on in 2nd half. IMO, Ole should’ve recognized that Fred was too rash in many tackles and combined with PSG’s antics it was always going to be another yellow for Fred at some point. inexcusable to not pull him off before we were down to 10

This. I thought we played pretty well and inches from taking the lead through Cavani plus a couple chances that Martial should've easily finished. Sitting back against a team like PSG would've been disastrous and we created enough that on a better night we easily tie or win.

The Fred non-sub was his only real mistake. It was a pretty big one to be fair. I can only imagine he thought Matic was far too slow and that Pogba/VDB weren't good enough defensively. Either way though it was obvious Fred had to come off.

luke511 · Dec 3, 2020

romufc said:
I am not criticising Poch for waiting on the United job. I am criticising United. There must be a reason why he is waiting on the United job right?

So if United think he is the man to take us forward, why are we waiting for Ole to fail and its all doom and gloom? Be ruthless and make the decision.

This is what I am saying, we are always reactive in the market, be it the players or managers.

Because Ole hasn't done a bad job so far either. Since the Bruno signing we ended up finishing 3rd playing good football, buying him the chance to carry on for this season as manager. Our squad is the best it's been since Ferguson and the attention to bringing in and developing youth talent has been great.

My point is that Pochettino is a great option for United if Solskjaer gets sacked, I'm not here to explain why Solskjaer hasn't been sacked yet.

RedDevil@84 · Dec 3, 2020

SAFMUTD said:
Im Ole out but yesterday's lost is not on him, its on Martial. You can't be missing those chances and expect to win.

Arguable.
Martial missed chances Vs Ole screwing up the Fred sub, resulting in going down to 10 men

One could argue that if we had 11 men on the field, then Martial could have got another chance to make amends. Maybe, who knows.

luke511 · Dec 3, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
I’ve seen it all now,
lampards doing a great job at Chelsea so shouldn’t be sacked for pochetino.

Ole is doing a shit job and should be sacked for pochetino

Chelsea look just as inconsistent, we finished above them last year, same points this if we win our game in hand. Similar cup runs last year wasn’t it? Frank struggled with the defence big time last year and had to go out buying. Ole sorted our defence to have one of the best defensive records in the league. What’s the massive difference?

I guess frank makes great subs!!!

Where did I say Solskjaer should be sacked for Pochettino? I was asked which manager was available, simply answering a question.

SAFMUTD · Dec 3, 2020

RedDevil@84 said:
Arguable.
Martial missed chances Vs Ole screwing up the Fred sub, resulting in going down to 10 men

One could argue that if we had 11 men on the field, then Martial could have got another chance to make amends. Maybe, who knows.

Yes Ole should had taken Fred out but lets not prettend thats why we lost, we were 2-1 down before Fred got the red card. Martial had 2 clear chances to go up in the score, one being a total sitter, and missed them. Pretending that we would have equalized with 11 players and 15 minutes to go is highly debatable.

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

AshRK said:
Because defenders were the priority then. We needed a RB and a CB. Could we have spent wisely? yes but how is Ole to be blamed for Board's incompetence is beyond me. Why do we always dither till the very last day and then end up blaming manager. And the same thing happened with Jose and Van gaal too so it's not just Ole who suffered from this. If you are not going to spend 100 m on Sancho why don't you let the manager know before the summer itself. Sancho's price was known to us in March itself and Covid hit in March so it was not a surprise to anyone. Why did we continue to pursue Sancho till the very last day of the window. Similar stuff happened with Maguire. Everyone knew Leicester's demands but yet we continued to buy without having a plan B.

We are the only club where the manager is questioned for not being able to negotiate with other clubs or paying high wages to players. Do you seriously think our club can do a business like Chelsea did this season, where they buy 6 to 7 players in one window itself.

Why were defenders considered a priority though? We had just finished 2nd under Mourinho the season before, and we always had a very good defensive record in the PL over the years. Was Maguire defensively a £80m upgrade to Smalling? Did we really need a £50m right back? Ricardo Pereira went to Leicester for £20m the same summer. Ole is partly to be blamed for the cost because he was the one who wanted English premier league players, who come at premiums.

Sancho's pursuit was a strategy by the club. We attempted to get him for cheap, believing that the covid impact on clubs finances would see Dortmund eventually give in. It was a game of brinkmanship. Ole would have known that.

No I don't think we can. It's well documented that the club isn't set up to handle multiple football transfers seamlessly, and our need for football specialists.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

luke511 said:
Where did I say Solskjaer should be sacked for Pochettino? I was asked which manager was available, simply answering a question.

Sorry I missed that. I did see your later post about you thinking he’d be a good replacement IF Ole got sacked.

I just don’t think he’s guaranteed good enough or worth the risk to sack Ole for at the moment. We’re inconsistent but lots of positives, if we start bombing down the league and go on a silly losing run then the risk would change

whatever happens though, I’d look at appointing Poch as underwhelming

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

romufc said:
It's clear the club believe Ole is the best man for the job.. then whats the issue?

Are you sure about that? We've supposedly been in talks with Poch's reps this season. We wouldn't do that if we didn't already have doubts would we?

romufc · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
Are you sure about that? We've supposedly been in talks with Poch's reps this season. We wouldn't do that if we didn't already have doubts would we?

Are you sure about that? I can only go by what the club say. So in your opinion would you back Poch if the club believed he was the man?

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

romufc said:
Are you sure about that? I can only go by what the club say. So in your opinion would you back Poch if the club believed he was the man?

Don't you remember him being spotted with Neil Ashton in public at the start of the year?

I want to see us is go through a lengthy hiring process, trying to hire the best we possibly can. If it turned out Poch was top of that list, then yeah.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
Don't you remember him being spotted with Neil Ashton in public at the start of the year? Woodward likes him apparently.

I want to see us is go through a lengthy hiring process, trying to hire the best we possibly can. If it turned out Poch was top of that list, then yeah.

You want us to go through this process while Ole is here? Or sack him first?

Zlaatan · Dec 3, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
I’m so sure that a different manager wouldn’t be getting half as much stick as Ole just because it wouldn’t be Ole.

we played great last night ffs, set up well, the right line up, should have put PSG to the sword, players misses and brain farts cost us that match

He's one of the most beloved players to ever wear a United shirt, it doesn't make much sense that someone else would get less stick from United fans simply because he isn't Ole.

I do agree with what you said afterwards though, but it's also clear that Ole made a mistake regarding Fred and I don't get why so many people have such a hard time admitting that. There's far too many people in here who can't either A) admit that Ole got everything right in terms of tactics and setup and was let down by poor finishing or B) that he made a big mistake by keeping Fred on the pitch. Both A and B are true but the Ole-in vs Ole-out drama seems to make it impossible for some people to see that.

Majima · Dec 3, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
You want us to go through this process while Ole is here? Or sack him first?

We was talking to Mourinho whilst LVG was still here. Bayern sacked Kovac & Flick took over immediately, so I would like to see us have a plan in place ready and waiting asap yeah.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

Zlaatan said:
He's one of the most beloved players to ever wear a United shirt, it doesn't make much sense that someone else would get less stick from United fans simply because he isn't Ole.

I do agree with what you said afterwards though, but it's also clear that Ole made a mistake regarding Fred and I don't get why so many people have such a hard time admitting that. There's far too many people in here who can't either A) admit that Ole got everything right in terms of tactics and setup and was let down by poor finishing or B) that he made a big mistake by keeping Fred on the pitch. Both A and B are true but the Ole-in vs Ole-out drama seems to make it impossible for some people to see that.

I agree it shouldn’t make sense but it does, I’d say Oles time at cardiff and lack of experience far outweighs that he used to be a player for us in these debates though, as we see with the pe teacher comments.

It was a mistake keeping fred on, in hindsight. It was a calculated risk but we started the half well and should have taken advantage of that risk. We didn’t. So it turns out to be a mistake to attack Ole with.

Zlatan 7 · Dec 3, 2020

Majima said:
We was talking to Mourinho whilst LVG was still here. Bayern sacked Kovac & Flick took over immediately, so I would like to see us have a plan in place ready and waiting asap yeah.

Personally I’d hate for Ole and the team to know we are talking to and lining up multiple other managers

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