How far off is this squad from a title challenge?

Uniquim

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We'd need a DM specialist who is better at passing, and moving the ball. That would help a lot, so we don't need two defensive mids every time we need solidity defensively, and if we could field only one defensive-minded mid, then the other could relieve Bruno when he gets isolated, and make us less dependent on him.

We'd need a more compatible CB partner for Maguire.

Also, either a RW that stays wide, or a RB that attacks so we have width/crosses on that side too. That way we can stretch the play more on both sides and hopefully create more room in the opposition defences. I know they've been working with AWB's attacking side of things, and we have a few young RWs that came in, but it'd be nice to have it now.
 

the_answer

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The issue isnt the squad it's the coach or rather the whole management. Give klopp this team and he'd be challenging after 1 year.
 

croadyman

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Dm
1 cb

But both need to be top players.

I think we challenge with that. We can score goals on anyone, we just can't keep them out.
Who do you have mind that we realistically get then,my choices would probably be

Zakaria

Ramos
 

fezzerUTD

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1st Tier MUST HAVE
1. Goalkeeper (maybe Henderson is the answer, not seen enough of him; we're getting nowhere with De Gea for sure)
2. Centre Mid with strong defensive skills

2nd Tier NICE TO HAVE
3. Right Back (AWB can be easily upgraded IMO, another player who has one world-class ability and average to poor at everything else)
4. Right Winger
No CB in either list is making me question your football knowledge.
 

wolvored

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I get that the way the Glazers run things riles everyone but we’ve won 11 major items of silverware plus some side show silver since they took the club over.
I think the problem is on this side of the Atlantic, mostly found at Ed’s door but increasingly at Ole’s too.
How many did we win under Fergie? This was a setup that Edwards and Gill implemented and gradually the squad slowly got weaker as the Glazers hardly spent anything and put the club into debt. the real running of the club under the Glazers since Fergie left is they have spent a lot of money, made loads more, but only 3 trophies to show for it. Now an owner who put the football club first would have rooted out the problem by now. Would have put a CEO and or DOF in to oversee a short and long term plan to keep Utd at the top. Would have maintained the ground and even modernised it. The fact this hasnt happened proves the Glazers are only interested in the football side if it impacts their profits and dividends. The fact Deadwood Woodward still oversees the football side to the detriment shows this as well.
 

atkar83

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I just don't think DMs that can pass and defend like we need are available. Great ones are probably very rare, and whoever has them will hold on to them unless a crazy value is given. We've been asking for a DM for over a decade since Carrick started getting up there in age. Schneiderlin, Blind, etc. etc. were poor to serviceable, but not what you need to win the league. I just don't see it happening. We need to assume we can't land another Carrick and go with a different set up.
 

croadyman

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How many did we win under Fergie? This was a setup that Edwards and Gill implemented and gradually the squad slowly got weaker as the Glazers hardly spent anything and put the club into debt. the real running of the club under the Glazers since Fergie left is they have spent a lot of money, made loads more, but only 3 trophies to show for it. Now an owner who put the football club first would have rooted out the problem by now. Would have put a CEO and or DOF in to oversee a short and long term plan to keep Utd at the top. Would have maintained the ground and even modernised it. The fact this hasnt happened proves the Glazers are only interested in the football side if it impacts their profits and dividends. The fact Deadwood Woodward still oversees the football side to the detriment shows this as well.
Yeah we are just a cash cow to them who they will continue to just milk for profits and that is really sad to say
 

MZX7

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  • A new manager
  • A new GK (or possibly Henderson)
  • A new CB to partner Maguire
  • A DM specialist
From winning it, not just challenging. The squad is close to challenging this season.
This irritates me. As if Maguire is bad ONLY because of Lindelof. We need a strong CB pairing. Why are people STUCK on the idea that Maguire is a sure starter?
 

Popcorn

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I think we have a good enough squad to challenge, with perhaps the addition of a quality right forward.

I think the manager Needs support from experienced proven winner coaches. We have too little (Success) experience In our coaching staff ( despite achievements as players).
 
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Plymouth Red

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How many did we win under Fergie? This was a setup that Edwards and Gill implemented and gradually the squad slowly got weaker as the Glazers hardly spent anything and put the club into debt. the real running of the club under the Glazers since Fergie left is they have spent a lot of money, made loads more, but only 3 trophies to show for it. Now an owner who put the football club first would have rooted out the problem by now. Would have put a CEO and or DOF in to oversee a short and long term plan to keep Utd at the top. Would have maintained the ground and even modernised it. The fact this hasnt happened proves the Glazers are only interested in the football side if it impacts their profits and dividends. The fact Deadwood Woodward still oversees the football side to the detriment shows this as well.
Can’t agree with you about the spending. Here’s our net position since 2013

SEASONSPENDREVENUE+/-
13/14£70m£2m-£68m
14/15£176m£44m-£132m
15/16£140m£92m-£48m
16/17£167m£43m-£124m
17/18£179m£41m-£138m
18/19£74m£28m-£46m
19/20£192m£73m-£119m
20/21£55m£13m-£42m
Total££1.04bn336m-£717m

I don’t see how these numbers can be described as ‘hardly anything’.

The real issue is that we have not spent the money wisely, which brings us back to Ed and Judge.

Change that dynamic and we stand a much better chance of moving forward, regardless of the manager. Ideally change him, too.
 

Bebestation

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A Top Class CDM, a Top Class RW, a good CB and a ST before we should be able to give it ago.

Basically, if done right - a transfer window or 2 a way.

This is why I find it hard to blame Ole completely- so many mistakes and tactics, but i dont think players wise we are that far away to having some strength back in to our system.

He is doing a DOF's job in a managers seat maybe because he knew SAF did that too.
 

Lassitude42

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I think the fans would tolerate fighting for CL places if we felt we were well coached and improving.

I'd hire a young, talented coach with something to prove. Stop signing overpriced mercernaries - I would avoid signing players for over £50m. It's clear we need a lot of players and there are bargains to be had - as Spurs have shown for example.

We really need a striker, centre-back, defensive midfielder and a winger, and I'd look to bring a lot of young and hungry players cheaply.

We need to get rid of players that don't perform on high wages - DDG, Martial, obviously Pogba. We could operate like a Dortmund or Leipzig but with much more cash to spend. Do those clubs even have a positive net transfer spend?

We've wasted so much money it's criminal. We need to chop the fat and spend our money much more wisely. Find some bargains rather than names.
 

croadyman

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I think we have a good enough squad to challenge, with perhaps the addition of a quality right forward.

I think the manager Needs support from experienced proven winner coaches. We have too little (Success) experience In our coaching staff ( despite achievements as players).
Still need CDM & CB,we are getting a right sided player in January provided he can get his work permit
 

croadyman

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A Top Class CDM, a Top Class RW, a good CB and a ST before we should be able to give it ago.

Basically, if done right - a transfer window or 2 a way.

This is why I find it hard to blame Ole completely- so many mistakes and tactics, but i dont think players wise we are that far away to having some strength back in to our system.

He is doing a DOF's job in a managers seat maybe because he knew SAF did that too.
I like what Eddy has brought to us as a ST but we do need to find someone long term
 

Martialfc

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We are absolutely miles off a title challenge. I get slated on here for saying our players are bang average and yet look at us. Hate to burst people’s bubbles but our whole team is full of mercenaries. The only players I like in our whole team are Greenwood, Bruno, VDB, Telles and Henderson. The last three because I haven’t seen enough of them . Id honestly bin the rest and start again. We need players like Neves. Jimenez, Kane, Mane, Hojberg, KDB but instead we have to watch Pogba sulk week in week out or Maguire try pass long balls.
 

Footy van de Geek

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A striker, top wide players on both flanks, an elite fullback or maybe even on both flanks and probably another top midfielder (defensive mid at the very least + another versatile player at the level of a DvB at the least or Bruno). We're miles away and this team has to first accept that they'r shit and not a fake top squad of players. Take responsibility for rebuilding the winning ethos at the club and actually travel the road with boots on the ground. That is even further away.
Martial/Cavani/Boadu

Rashford/James------------------------------Greenwood/Diallo

Bruno/Fred--------------vdB/McTominay

Ndidi/Garner

Telles/Shaw Maguire/Lindelöf Upamecano/Axel AWB/Dalot

Oblak/Henderson
Sold: De Gea, Rojo, Jones, Pogba, Lingard, Ighalo (loan finished)
Loan: Kovar, Williams, Laird, Galbraith
Backup: Bailly, Matić, Mata
U23 players: Fish, Mengi, Mejbri, Pellistri, Elanga, Hugill (all capable of 1st team minutes if needed)

I understand that it won't be easy to shift that many players at once. Could take 18 months.

Oblak would be very difficult to get, but is the best GK not already at an elite club. Neuer, ter Stegen, Courtois, Alisson and Ederson are unlikely to move or impossible to get. Other GK alternatives are Patrício, Onana, Donnarumma, Lopes and Sommer. If Henderson can't cut it.
This irritates me. As if Maguire is bad ONLY because of Lindelof. We need a strong CB pairing. Why are people STUCK on the idea that Maguire is a sure starter?
He cost a world record fee. We won't be selling him anytime soon. I don't rate Maguire that highly either, but he's here to stay. We might as well try to minimise his weaknesses and hope he can become more reliable next to a CB with a skillset that compliments him better.
 

Foxbatt

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Jordan feckin Henderson is a prime example of what a good coach can do. Also James Milner. Wijnaldum is another. Good coaches massively improve players and they get all of them to play as a team.
 

Red00012

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Jordan feckin Henderson is a prime example of what a good coach can do. Also James Milner. Wijnaldum is another. Good coaches massively improve players and they get all of them to play as a team.
I’d have to say Jota as well
 

VeevaVee

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If we got the perfect 3 signings and most likely a new manager, then that. By perfect I mean Bruno standard of attitude and talent. We need proper drive in this team.
 

Brad2020

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I would say they are 5 transfers away. I would like them to play 4-3-3

Center Back: United desperately need a center back with pace to alongside Maguire. I really like Lindelof and think he's a good player, but the two just don't match.

Central Defensive Midfielder: Matic is two old, and Fred isn't good enough to hold the back on his own.

Right Winger: I would still like to see Sancho come in to show the fans they are committed to building for the future, instead of buying 28 year old band aids that will have to be replaced in a few years.

Striker: Once Cavani is gone, Martial could hold the fort for a bit, but United desperately need a natural goal scorer.

Team Character ( United desperately need a Roy Keane player on the field, or at least someone other than Bruno with natural leadership skills...my vote Jack Grealish.)
 

The Brown Bull

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I think Cavani is improving us and will continue to do do. He's a top quality centre forward.
Next year though we need to buy Haaland. Greenwood is still developing.
After that we need a boss on the field.
A center back or midfielder but someone who chivvies the rest to perform.
Dé Ligt might be the man.
 

The Brown Bull

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I would say they are 5 transfers away. I would like them to play 4-3-3

Center Back: United desperately need a center back with pace to alongside Maguire. I really like Lindelof and think he's a good player, but the two just don't match.

Central Defensive Midfielder: Matic is two old, and Fred isn't good enough to hold the back on his own.

Right Winger: I would still like to see Sancho come in to show the fans they are committed to building for the future, instead of buying 28 year old band aids that will have to be replaced in a few years.

Striker: Once Cavani is gone, Martial could hold the fort for a bit, but United desperately need a natural goal scorer.

Team Character ( United desperately need a Roy Keane player on the field, or at least someone other than Bruno with natural leadership skills...my vote Jack Grealish.)
Jack Grealish??
Give me a break.
 

TheLord

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We need a complete squad overhaul. There is a reason why so many managers have failed, and that includes Fergie’s final few years (while we were still winning a lot, we were continuing to lose ground to many other PL teams).
We need a director of football.
We need better long term planning and scouting system.
We need a better manager.
 

edcunited1878

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Jordan feckin Henderson is a prime example of what a good coach can do. Also James Milner. Wijnaldum is another. Good coaches massively improve players and they get all of them to play as a team.
Klopp is a top manager, but let's not ignore the fact that he has top players in many positions throughout the team. Mane, Salah. Fabinho. Robertson. TAA. VVD. Allison. They didn't massively improve under Klopp as they were already good and their consistency and minimum performance and effectiveness is higher (i.e. higher floor) than what United have. You "plug" in 4 players who glue it together - Firmino, a CB, Henderson, Wijnaldum/Milner. They identified good players who had the requisite quality such as Robertson, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, and Mane. Developed TAA. Bought Henderson really early in his career and made him very functional. Broke the bank for VVD and Allison, but those were their two glaring weaknesses that really held them back and they didn't get it wrong when spending big. Credit to them.

Those players also have a good technical basis to start off with. AWB, McTominay, Rashford, and Martial aren't as technically solid as players in similar positions for rival teams - Spurs, City, Liverpool, Chelsea. No matter the manager for United, the recruitment hasn't been consistent or near good enough on an individual basis and on a team basis for a long, long time.
 

DOTA

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Really depends on the opposition. The year Leicester won, second place had 71 points. This lot are capable of getting more than 71 points. They're not gonna get 90 though.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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What changes are needed to this team to make them title challengers against the other clubs this season? We're a million miles off. People keep thinking we just replace one or two players and we're suddenly ahead of our rivals, and seem to forget that those squads will also be getting new reinforcements. So any players we sign have to be better than the starters for our rivals. Any players like that on the market? People seem to think Jadon Sancho is, I'd love to find out.

Basically we need a winger who is better than Son and/or Salah, a striker who is better than Kane, a CB who is better than Zouma is currently (make that 2), fullbacks who can attack and defend, and a DM. The only player in our current squad who could get into a title winning side is Bruno.
 

Bobcat

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It's very close but still very far

Close

The club has some top quality players in the side.
Bruno, VDB, Henderson, DDG, Greenwood, Rashford.....you name it, we have it. It's evident that the side is poorly managed from top to bottom (CEO level, management and coaching level etc). However this is quite in the open now and surely there's a limit to how much the Glazers will tolerate that. After all, money matters to them and having this sad group throwing a billion out of the window and getting 3 consecutive managers wrong is border ridiculous. So something is set to change at the point. I won't be surprised if we swiftly move to a DOF to appease the furious Ole groupies who are set to see their hero kicked out of the club

Far

As said we have some top quality players. However some players lack the characteristics to do well. DDG is a small box keeper, Maguire is painfully slow, McT/Fred are clearly not good enough, Pogba wants out and Martial is not consistent enough. There are tough decisions to be made and that will require time
Cant agree with that. DDG used to be the best shot stopper in the world bar none, but his other areas was always a bit lacking. Hes no longer the best shot stopper out there and his other goal tending skills have not become better either. Henderson should tend the goal. He was excellent for Sheffield last season

VdB? Hes played about 200 minutes in the PL. He looks like a neat player and hopefully he comes good, but to claim hes top class is way premature. Greenwood i am 90% convinced will become top class, but despite his wealth of talent hes still just a kid and need to be managed carefully. We simply cant give him that kind of responsibility yet. Bruno and Rashford and no doubt top class. The latter is frustrating with his inconsistency, but his bottom level is high enough that even when he has a bad game, he can turn up with some top class stuff.

I know your feeling about our coaching staff which is fine, i am not exactly happy either with our midweek meltdown, but do you (and others) think that simply getting in Poch or whoever is going to turn this lot into league winners and CL contenders? No new transfers required?
 

RashyForPM

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Who do you have mind that we realistically get then,my choices would probably be

Zakaria

Ramos
Zakaria or Rice would be brilliant. Ramos is probably unattainable though. Then, a world class RW. Maybe we’d have a chance then.
 

croadyman

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Zakaria or Rice would be brilliant. Ramos is probably unattainable though. Then, a world class RW. Maybe we’d have a chance then.
Yeah he probably is but was hoping we could agree a deal in Jan for the summer,in regards to a RW I am intrigued to see how Diallo does if he goes straight into the squad
 

devilish

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Cant agree with that. DDG used to be the best shot stopper in the world bar none, but his other areas was always a bit lacking. Hes no longer the best shot stopper out there and his other goal tending skills have not become better either. Henderson should tend the goal. He was excellent for Sheffield last season

VdB? Hes played about 200 minutes in the PL. He looks like a neat player and hopefully he comes good, but to claim hes top class is way premature. Greenwood i am 90% convinced will become top class, but despite his wealth of talent hes still just a kid and need to be managed carefully. We simply cant give him that kind of responsibility yet. Bruno and Rashford and no doubt top class. The latter is frustrating with his inconsistency, but his bottom level is high enough that even when he has a bad game, he can turn up with some top class stuff.

I know your feeling about our coaching staff which is fine, i am not exactly happy either with our midweek meltdown, but do you (and others) think that simply getting in Poch or whoever is going to turn this lot into league winners and CL contenders? No new transfers required?
So let's start from the beginning then. I don't think that bringing in Pochettino or anyone else really will sort all our woes. United's has a weak structure from up to bottom. We've got business men taking key football decisions (transfers negotiations, contract renewal, choosing managers etc), we've got an inexperienced manager and whose flanked by inexperienced coaches. A top manager flanked by decent coaches would probably drill the team better. Hopefully he might avoid blowing an 80m CB in a team were he would be surrounded by a GK who wouldn't leave his line even if his life depended on it and other players who are equally slow as he is (Lindelof and Matic). However that's not a guarantee either as managers lack experience in identifying top transfer targets these days. That has been delegated to the DOF and the head of recruitment.

This outdated system were the manager is at the top of the football pyramid and were a banker is tasked to take football decisions has lead to over 1billion lost in transfers and 4 managers being sacked at a row. Thus I am hoping that the Glazers will finally realise that and change it adequately. We need to separate the financials from football with the latter having its own CEO, its DOF and its head of recruitment. All of these roles should be covered by experienced people rather then figure heads who are here because they are top of their game. Many insist that United's biggest problem is having business people taking football decisions and they are right. However another big problem of United is nepotism. Judge has gone to the same university Woodward has gone, Carrick, Butt, Phelan and Clegg are former United players like Ole is (all of whom got the job because of that) while Dempsey and Hartis had been working with Ole at Cardiff. That needs to change
 

Brad2020

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Jack Grealish??
Give me a break.
Welll, if they can raise the revenue to get him they should...

1. He pretty much singlehandedly saved Aston Villa from regulation (He would probably be a United player, if he hadn't)
2. Right now he's sits at number 3 for assists in the premier league
3. He was at the top of Ole's transfers list, but managers at United tend to get players completely different than they ask for.

Probably priced to high out of the market now unfortunately, but I can't see him staying at Villa for his whole career.