Maybe it's just me but those guys never seem to talk much about the poor coaching and lack of proper structure
If you're Ole in, how much time will you give him?
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Gotta love the optimism of that last sentence.
Two years is a fair enough crack of the whip for me. It’s not as though he looked like an obvious choice on paper, who has done far better at other clubs so might still turn thinks round.
I still love you, Ole, and I always will. We had some great times together over the last couple of years but I’d like a new manager now. Ta.
We’re 5th in the league with a game in hand (arguably 2 points off top spot) and we’re thinking of sacking our manager? When did United become Chelsea and a ‘sacking club’? Why has football become so reactionary?
He finished 3rd last season playing half of the season with pereira and Lingard as a 10.
He’s returned a sense of stability to the club.
People are talking as though we’re in a relegation fight ffs. We were a goal away from going through in a champions league group containing last seasons runners up and semi finalists. We were playing Europa League.
If Ole’s due the sack, Pep must be getting ready to sign on considering the money he’s spent, Ancelotti must be a goner as well & bye bye Arteta.
He finished 3rd last season playing half of the season with pereira and Lingard as a 10.
He’s returned a sense of stability to the club.
People are talking as though we’re in a relegation fight ffs. We were a goal away from going through in a champions league group containing last seasons runners up and semi finalists. We were playing Europa League.
If Ole’s due the sack, Pep must be getting ready to sign on considering the money he’s spent, Ancelotti must be a goner as well & bye bye Arteta.
Will let someone more experienced outline the faults in this to you
I’m ole in unless we don’t make top 4. He’ll know he needs top 4 to be safe this year
I'm not against Ole Outters or think that it's a stupid position to hold
Gotta love the optimism of that last sentence.
Two years is a fair enough crack of the whip for me. It’s not as though he looked like an obvious choice on paper, who has done far better at other clubs so might still turn thinks round.
I still love you, Ole, and I always will. We had some great times together over the last couple of years but I’d like a new manager now. Ta.
But the way some people talk about Ole (or Pogba), it's like he shagged their mother and murdered their father.
I can sense the rage from the way they talk, I imagine them seething with anger, frothing at the mouth like they've got rabies.
Still firmly Ole in. For these, in my eyes, obvious reasons:
It's been far from perfect, though. My major criticism of his tenure boils down to this:
- He's cleared out most of the deadwood from the bloated, expensive squad he inherited. I trust him to finish that particular job in the coming two transfer windows.
- Despite not being properly backed by the Glazers in the transfer market this summer, his record with recruitment bodes well for the future.
- We play a far more positive, attack minded brand of football than any other manager ever did, post Ferguson.
- He achieved the maximum of what could reasonably be expected with the player material available to him in his first full season. A trophy would have been nice, but 3rd and three semi finals is pretty damn good, considering he had to start the likes of Lingard, McTominay and Pereira almost every game for the entire first half of the season.
- We are normally very good in the big games under Ole.
- He gives young players the chance if they're good enough.
- We are making positive progress as a football team, and find ourselves two points off the top in the Premier League if we win our game in hand.
It's been far from perfect, though. My major criticism of his tenure boils down to this:
- We've been consistently average or poor against weaker, defensive sides. Particularly at home. I believe signing a more suitable centre back with pace, and a proper right winger would solve much of this problem.
- The 20/21 season so far has been worse defensively than 19/20. Too many schoolboy errors from the likes of De Gea, AWB and Maguire. This is obviously not solely down to poor coaching and/or tactics, as some turtlenecked football writers would have you believe, though. I think it's a direct result of Ole attempting to play more expansive football, without having the proper centre backs or defensive midfielders to do so.
- Making Maguire captain was probably not the best move. Bruno is by far the most natural leader, our talisman and should be given the armband.
- I also think he's been a bit too stubborn with the 4-2-3-1 shape. When everybody's fit and our best XI available, that system works. With three or four squad players in the side, it does not.
I find the hate very strange as well. Even if he wasn’t a legend of the club he’s always handled himself well. Never talked shit about the club or any of the players and by all accounts has been working extremely hard to turn things round. Look how much he’s aged in the last two years!
Absolutely no reason to hate on the guy. His only sin is not being quite good enough. And he is a fecking club legend. So even more reason not to he a hateful prick about him. Some people, eh?
I don't get why everyone goes on about coaching? These guys are supposed to be professionals not kids. The problem with United is tactics and team balance. We have a back four of good players who just dont seem to gel, they don't complement each other and Ole then has to play two defensive midfielders to cover the lack of pace of our centre backs. The team just isn't balanced and that is down to having too many changes in management and a failure to being in the right players. But Ole has to shoulder a good section of the blame as he needs to find his best 11 and stick with it. There has been so many changes ( mostly due to the compact fixture list) that the team hasn't had any real time to settle. I wouldn't sack Ole til this season is over and I doubt they will as a new manager would have to be given the money to bring in players in January where I think Ole will be made do with what he has now.
They keep beating around the Bush, going on and on about the same things.
as long as it takes /thread
Yeah you can tell they are old school and aren't willing to outright criticise those two things which does seem strange.
They aren't exactly friends with Woody, Carrick or McKenna so why the reluctance to hold back on them at all
As long as we keep showing progress I'm happy to give him a much time as he needs. I don't see us dropping out of the champions league as the disaster that others seem to. I'm more interested in where we finish in the league.
Why are our standards dropping to top 4? Top 4 was last seasons aim, surely this season's aim was to have a good CL run and cut the gap to the top?
He has failed on one part already.
He will not get anywhere near the top this season either.
He has failed on one part already.
He will not get anywhere near the top this season either.
Yes the lowering of standards is incredible and yet the ole in crowd talk of progress
When ole first took over he did a good job of quickly inplementing basic counter attacking tactics which were effective against the big teams but not so much against smaller teams. Whats changed? Where is the progress? If anything some of the basics like set pieces ans defending are getting worse
On top of that the transfer record in his time at the club is average at best. Very much salvaged by bruno who seems like the only good signing of the lot
I can't believe some of the comments Ole supporters make here. Why do they need coaching you ask, how about the same reason there is a boss in every professional setting. I work in a software company and I have a manager and his task is to split the project. identify who's skill set suits best, and make sure that everyone finishes his work on time. Of course we are all professionals in my office and all can write code, but if everyone does whatever we want, we're gonna lose customers.
At least I thought this would be obvious from seeing other clubs play football. And if these professionals should be able to get together and coach themselves, why is Ole needed?
If he's such a good manager (one of the best minds on the planet, according to some) then he should be getting better performances, over time, out of the existing players, right? Especially considering he has such a young squad.
Minimum Requirements
Top 4 Finish
Qualification to champions league last 16
If he fails both then a possible criteria to loose his job
Top 4 Finish
Qualification to champions league last 16
If he fails both then a possible criteria to loose his job
Pep? You're serious?
They're 11 and 12 at the moment but it's pep most disastrous year while it's lauded as Ole's best year.
Yeah. We must sack pep, at the same time we must give ole more time.
I agree with your point about the structure of the club right now.
Could this hypothetical scenario be a workable solution? ...
Ed informs Ole that he wants him to take a 'higher position' at the club,
Overseeing the recruitment & procurement of players and overseeing the scouting structure.
(He seems to have a good eye for potential)
Then Ed & Ole work together to bring the right man in who has a certain style that suits their ideas (whatever they may be? Young British players/players with natural leadership/fast players that press well/natural skilled players who are comfortable on the ball/whatever)
?
This would enable us to get a more experienced coach through the door and one that will share the same ideas and direction as Ole.
This would also place someone in that role above the coach that has a good eye for potential and can work at building us a real squad for the future.
And in turn would free Ed up to sort out the money side/contracts/advertising etc.
And If 1 coach doesn't work out we can bring another in. But the structure above stays consistent.
Everyone's a winner.
But this will never happen
Because we didn't really improve the team this summer. At least not the starting XI. The only way you can expect a title challenge(or win), is if you think the team is good enough. This is a weird season so it may be the case right now, but under normal circumstances this team has no business challenging for titles.
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Here's a crazy idea, just in case someone from our club happens to read this forum: it's possible to strengthen the bench and the starting XI at the same time
It's very simple: you sign players for the starting XI, thus pushing some current players in the starting XI to the bench. In fact, by following this approach you get a stronger bench than you would in your other interesting transfer strategy. Why? Because if the players you sign can't even displace the current lot, then they are by definition worse bench options than these players.
I'd gladly switch our 5 signings this summer for 2 starting XI players(a forward and a DM), even if it cost significantly more than the 5 players combined. I'm not a fan of throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
In that scenario, provided the 2 signings were class, we could expect a title challenge.
Give us a logical explanation of how Poch's CV isn't evidence of being a better manager than Ole. One that doesn't imply winning at Molde was a better accomplishment than what Poch showed in his time in england. This should be a treat to read
“Utterly awful”, yet finished 4th with more points than Ole has ever managed (71 pts).
All while spending a fraction of what Ole has.
If Ole made the CL final and got us 71 pts this season the entire fanbase would be sucking him off and wanting him to get an instant new 5 year deal.
Yep Poch is criticised on the standards of a world class manager. Many of which are fair but to turn around and use it to prop up Ole for making top 4 and bottling cups on even worse showings and a monumentally greater budget makes no sense
There's a legit case to be made that Poch is a bottler, there's zero case to be made that Ole is better or equal
Sensationalism at its best. All the names he mentioned have also done something significant in winning Ole is yet to do this at this level of football. The problem with those who support Ole blindly is they make continual contradictions time and time again. If Solskjaer was sacked today along with Arteta, who will go down as the more successful manager between the two in the league ? The answer on the premise of what's important is Arteta because he's won silverware. If anyone answers Ole then the criticism of Poch is unmerited because everyone discredits his achievements on the basis of not winning a trophy but guess what Ole falls into the exact same category (United is not Molde).
We also don't look like winning anything substantial whenever there's pressure on the club to get an IMPORTANT result we always fail under his management. Knocked out of two semi finals last year in quick succession, knocked out of the UCL group with having it all to play for. Solskjaer is not clutch in the moments that are of the most importance and that's why he will not be here beyond a 5 year period. Unless of course he goes through what can only be identified as a miracle and become a world beater of a manager one random morning he wakes up for training.
Do you honestly feel that we haven't made progress from where we were when Ole took the interim job?
And also, his signings have so far been very astute. Even Daniel James, who's clearly not up to being more than a bit part player, is an alright signing when you consider the fee and his resale value. And Bruno alone should get him far more backing from the Glazers than he got this summer. There you have the real culprits.
However, I think Maguire is the most questionable of all his signings to date. Partly because of the fee, but also because he was made captain too soon. He's a good PL centre half, but he's not an elite one.
Then what do you make of Ole last season ? 4th with such a low points tally, knocked out of every cup competition and then concludes it all by dumping us out of the group to qualify for the UCL. Typical hypocrisy.
Ole finishing 3rd and making 3 semifinals is promising progress but Poch making finals and actually contending in the league is failure. The standards used to call Poch a failure are worse than the ones being used to celebrate Ole
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Poch never truly contested for the title despite years and years of managing a really strong Spurs squad. Never even won a single trophy in all that time. Are you honestly saying that losing a cup final is an achievement now. ? The standards used to call Ole a failure are similar to the ones being used to celebrate Poch.
Why would we expect to get nearer to the top with just Cavani, Van de Beek and Telles?
Chelsea went out and bought 6 first team starters to add to a squad that was already at least on a par with ours. Liverpool, City and Spurs also strengthened more than we did.
We can't really class top 4 as a given when we've only finished there 3 times in 7 years.
We did improve though. Telles, DVB and Cavani all are first team players whilst having a stronger bench.Because we didn't really improve the team this summer. At least not the starting XI. The only way you can expect a title challenge(or win), is if you think the team is good enough. This is a weird season so it may be the case right now, but under normal circumstances this team has no business challenging for titles.
_________________________________________
Here's a crazy idea, just in case someone from our club happens to read this forum: it's possible to strengthen the bench and the starting XI at the same time
It's very simple: you sign players for the starting XI, thus pushing some current players in the starting XI to the bench. In fact, by following this approach you get a stronger bench than you would in your other interesting transfer strategy. Why? Because if the players you sign can't even displace the current lot, then they are by definition worse bench options than these players.
I'd gladly switch our 5 signings this summer for 2 starting XI players(a forward and a DM), even if it cost significantly more than the 5 players combined. I'm not a fan of throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
In that scenario, provided the 2 signings were class, we could expect a title challenge.
You could argue a case for all 3 to start when fit.
I did not say title challenge, at least cut the gap to the top. We got 30 odd points of Liverpool, at least close the gap is what we expect.
I can ask you the other way around, have't we improved the squad more than just finishing top 4? What improvement has there been?
We are in the Europa league and fighting for top 4. We were doing that last season. A manager who is here for 2 years, cannot have the same targets, same aspirations.
I guarantee you, we will not even get to the semis of the Europa with Ole in charge.
I have been Ole in, I have backed him but it is evidently clear he does not learn, he is not progressing this team. We keep going into big games as if we are Stoke City.. playing defensive football when we have crap defenders and an array of attacking talent.
I have had enough of this negative football, slow football, crap tactics.
Does Solskjaer not have a better squad to work with compared to every manager since SAF retired yes or no ? Is Grealish or Sancho the answer for our inconsistency ? If you understand Chelsea's issue they could have signed prime Messi and it wouldn't have made a difference, they were defensively poor and their purchase of a centre half and goalkeeper has influenced the team more positively to their results than the outfield signings.
The way your post is formatted is as if Solskjaer has been given Burnley to make use of. Weak excuses, we are only 2 points off the top so either Lampard and Co are overrated or we also have a squad on paper good enough to challenge for the league. Not necessarily the right manager however.
What kind of strawman have you just attempted. Pretty sure I just cited Poch's finals losses as bottler standard, twice on this page. We could also go into the million reasons bottling a CL final is prefferable to the guy that bottles a CL group stage (after spending 300m). There are levels to bottling and Ole takes the cake
It just doesn't make sense to not rate Pochettino but to rate Ole
We had a better first 11 than Chelsea last season.
Spurs bought 2 first team players and are in a title challenge? explain that?
When you hire a manager on a transition, you have to expect improvement every season. What improvements are there ? 2 years ago when Ole joined.
We played crap football then, we play crap football now
We were a Europa league team, are still a Europa league team
Arsenal went from a phase of top 4 was priority, they let standards slip, what happens when standards slip? they slip further, now their aim is top 4 only.
We are becoming that too, when in reality our squad is good enough to mount a title challenge given the correct coaching, correct play style, correct mentality.
Which manager of a top team blows qualification when you need 1 point in 2? We have one of the most press resistant players and doesnt play against a pressing team?
AWB gets done on the back post every time, nothing changed.
Maguire and other defenders communication is 0
Our midfield is too open
What has Ole done in his two years to deserve more time?
agree.
He built a great squad.
But wait. His squad is shit you can't ask him to do better than 4th
But wait. His squad is shit you can't ask him to do better than 4th
There are two problems here. First of all the "could argue" part. I'm thinking about signings that are so good that there's no question that they should start. Secondly, 2 of the 3 players are in positions we don't really need. We've been screaming out for an attacker and a DM and maybe a CB. There were typically 3 positions that were brought up during the summer transfer window: RW, DM and CB. Some people wanted a CF, though only if it was a clear improvement on Martial.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have cover for Bruno/Fred or a better leftback than Shaw, but these were clearly not pressing matters. Telles has not looked like an upgrade to Shaw. VDB is still clearly less important to us than Bruno and Fred, though he should probably start against teams that park the bus. Cavani is a decent signing, but is he better than Martial? Is he good enough to lead the line when you consider our history of great strikers(not in the post Fergie era obviously)?
Did we improve the squad? Yes. Did we improve the starting XI? No. And if we did, then the improvements were marginal and mostly in the "wrong" areas.
Oh we'll almost definitely close the gap. We'll probably break 70 points and I don't see Liverpool breaking 90. I reckon whoever wins the title this year will do it with around 85 points. The question isn't whether or not we can close the gap, but rather how much. Is it gonna 5 points or 20 points? This is a weird season, so I feel that anything can happen in the top 5.
Till the end of the season and more if results this year better than last one, which means top 4, with more points gained. Trophy would be plus, as well as playing better football, but overall if playing like we do now he manage to secure top 4 and more points (75+) I would give him another season.