Gaming Cyberpunk 2077 (PC, PS4/5, Xbox One)

Siorac · Dec 16, 2020

Massive Spanner said:
Even in the main story it's pretty distracting sitting in a diner talking to someone only to see NPC's floating around and repeating the same movement over and over again

In one side quest, we were sitting down in a diner at one of those long tables. An NPC came over, took the seat opposite of me and proceeded to eat while staring at me creepily. Unnerved me to no end.

I genuinely thought he was going to be part of the story at first as he was staring at me so intently. Also had a bitching white suit, too good to waste on some rando.

Mr Anderson · Dec 16, 2020

TrustInJanuzaj said:
Yeh that’s the one. I didn’t really think too much about it, didn’t realise they were usually so expensive. Not even sure I can remember where he is now!

He's in the middle of Watson and just north of the highway that goes east to west - Not too far from where you went to the 'netrunner' as part of an early story mission.

TrustInJanuzaj · Dec 16, 2020

Mr Anderson said:
He's in the middle of Watson and just north of the highway that goes east to west - Not too far from where you went to the 'netrunner' as part of an early story mission.

Thanks that's useful!

amolbhatia50k · Dec 16, 2020

rcoobc said:
I think you are confusing AI and story.

The AI in Witcher 3 is terrible (exactly as bad as cyberpunk, which makes sense). The AI in RDR2 is not perfect but essentially the best in the world right now.

In terms of side quests and character and story Witcher 3 is great, but in terms of AI it's really bad.

But then again, HZD has really bad AI (like, terrible), and so do many others.

I was actually referring originally to how different games have different strengths. Read Dead's random NPCs definitely behave the most realistically, but what is the AI in combat which is the meat of the game? It's essentially a game from the 2000s or your typical GTA where you have to aim at your target and shoot. On the other hand games which allow you for different approaches such as Deus Ex (holy grail for me) is a bigger challenge for that part of the AI as there are so many possibilities. World population AI - yes top drawer stuff. On actual missions and all - it's like a scripted movie.

I dont think the Witcher's AI is really bad. It's just normal whereas it truly shines in other areas. If the AI is terrible in the Witcher 3 then we're dumping too many games into the rubbish bracket IMO.

Lord Megadrive · Dec 16, 2020

Siorac said:
In one side quest, we were sitting down in a diner at one of those long tables. An NPC came over, took the seat opposite of me and proceeded to eat while staring at me creepily. Unnerved me to no end.

I genuinely thought he was going to be part of the story at first as he was staring at me so intently. Also had a bitching white suit, too good to waste on some rando.

I think I know the one, he just stares at you while you eat at chat

the Crucifix brain dance quest?

swooshboy · Dec 16, 2020

TrustInJanuzaj said:
Yeah, agree with this. Red Dead 2 is in a league of its own in recent games for me. There's just unbelievable attention to detail in every element of that game. It speaks volumes that you can follow any NPC for hours and it feels like they are living a proper life, work in the day, the pub at night, stumble home etc. I really hope they do a next-gen patch as i'd love to play again.

Spot on – I saw this video and it is genuinely amazing how much detail they have built into this game.

Bosws87 · Dec 16, 2020

swooshboy said:
Spot on – I saw this video and it is genuinely amazing how much detail they have built into this game.

That's amazing but at a cost Red Dead Redemption is one of the most boring games to actually play rockstar have released, its beautiful to look at but lasts forever and is very dull.

Cyberpunk for all its flaws is miles more fun when its working.

Berbasbullet · Dec 16, 2020

Bosws87 said:
That's amazing but at a cost Red Dead Redemption is one of the most boring games to actually play rockstar have released, its beautiful to look at but lasts forever and is very dull.

Cyberpunk for all its flaws is miles more fun when its working.

Wow fair play to RDR2! That’s amazing, that game was ridiculous though.

rcoobc · Dec 16, 2020

amolbhatia50k said:
I was actually referring originally to how different games have different strengths. Read Dead's random NPCs definitely behave the most realistically, but what is the AI in combat which is the meat of the game? It's essentially a game from the 2000s or your typical GTA where you have to aim at your target and shoot. On the other hand games which allow you for different approaches such as Deus Ex (holy grail for me) is a bigger challenge for that part of the AI as there are so many possibilities. World population AI - yes top drawer stuff. On actual missions and all - it's like a scripted movie.

I dont think the Witcher's AI is really bad. It's just normal whereas it truly shines in other areas. If the AI is terrible in the Witcher 3 then we're dumping too many games into the rubbish bracket IMO.

That's very true and valid criticism. I think this youtube video was talking about this

But - I don't agree that it's a problem. In fact, I completely disagree.

There are two different philosophies there for me. One the one hand youve got games where you can complete missions in a variety of ways; Hitman (being the obvious one which is literally built on this), Deus Ex, Metal Gear sometimes, and even games like Breath of the Wild.

Then you've got the scripted cinematic ones like The Last of Us, Red Dead Redemption, Uncharted, GTA, and probably hundreds of others.

Which are better? Well that depends on what you want. In terms of making you feel like you are living a movie, I think the scripted philosophy of Last of Us, Uncharted, GTA, RDR win out. If you value freedom and creativity then obviously you aren't going to want that as much.

What is so incredible for me about GTA and RDR is that they combine the two approaches; free open world, reactionary AI with the hyper scripted movie-like moments of the missions. RDR2 is comparable to anything done by Naughty Dog in terms of the quality of it's set-pieces. It's also comparable to anything done elsewhere in terms of the freedom of the open world.

Dunno where I'm going with this

But yeah, CDPR AI is poo

amolbhatia50k · Dec 16, 2020

rcoobc said:
That's very true and valid criticism. I think this youtube video was talking about this

But - I don't agree that it's a problem. In fact, I completely disagree.

There are two different philosophies there for me. One the one hand youve got games where you can complete missions in a variety of ways; Hitman (being the obvious one which is literally built on this), Deus Ex, Metal Gear sometimes, and even games like Breath of the Wild.

Then you've got the scripted cinematic ones like The Last of Us, Red Dead Redemption, Uncharted, GTA, and probably hundreds of others.

Which are better? Well that depends on what you want. In terms of making you feel like you are living a movie, I think the scripted philosophy of Last of Us, Uncharted, GTA, RDR win out. If you value freedom and creativity then obviously you aren't going to want that as much.

What is so incredible for me about GTA and RDR is that they combine the two approaches; free open world, reactionary AI with the hyper scripted movie-like moments of the missions. RDR2 is comparable to anything done by Naughty Dog in terms of the quality of it's set-pieces. It's also comparable to anything done elsewhere in terms of the freedom of the open world.

Dunno where I'm going with this

But yeah, CDPR AI is poo

I know what you mean, they're all different kind of games and each has their own place. But over time I've fallen out of love with games like RDR2 and GTA as I genuinely don't believe their gameplay loop offers anything. RDR2 was great in terms of cinematics and the world, but the gameplay is just too bare. Same with GTA. Games that either merge gameplay with cinematics like Witcher 3 (combat is not brilliant but I liked it miles better than those two, and it's more of an RPG)or God of War (brilliant gameplay and narrative), or completely unique experiences like Outer Wilds or Nier Automata are now much more my cup of tea.

Lyricist · Dec 16, 2020

Bosws87 said:
That's amazing but at a cost Red Dead Redemption is one of the most boring games to actually play rockstar have released, its beautiful to look at but lasts forever and is very dull.

Cyberpunk for all its flaws is miles more fun when its working.

Agree with this.

DatIrishFella · Dec 16, 2020

Solius said:
Apparently that's what the doctors said when you were born.

Wtf man

Moby · Dec 16, 2020

Solius said:
Apparently that's what the doctors said when you were born.

Siorac · Dec 16, 2020

Lord Megadrive said:
I think I know the one, he just stares at you while you eat at chat

the Crucifix brain dance quest?

Yeah, it was that one.

Solius · Dec 16, 2020

DatIrishFella said:
Wtf man

Sorry

TrustInJanuzaj · Dec 16, 2020

Bosws87 said:
That's amazing but at a cost Red Dead Redemption is one of the most boring games to actually play rockstar have released, its beautiful to look at but lasts forever and is very dull.

Cyberpunk for all its flaws is miles more fun when its working.

That's fair enough and I can understand why some don't enjoy it but for me its anything but boring. It's like playing a western movie and that comes with all the same pacing (issues or qualities) that those movies traditionally bring. I think whats rare though Is that completely immersive feeling of being the character which Rockstar achieved with Arthur in RDR2, the detail in the world is such that you could literally just take a walk and it would feel interesting. It also helps that I love the hunting, fishing and general shooting in that game.

Cyberpunk i also get and I'm enjoying it for completely different reasons.

Paxi · Dec 16, 2020

Red Dead Redemption 2 is the best game ever made.

Irwin99 · Dec 16, 2020

rcoobc said:
I think you are confusing AI and story.

The AI in Witcher 3 is terrible (exactly as bad as cyberpunk, which makes sense). The AI in RDR2 is not perfect but essentially the best in the world right now.

In terms of side quests and character and story Witcher 3 is great, but in terms of AI it's really bad.

But then again, HZD has really bad AI (like, terrible), and so do many others.

that's something I feel Ghost of Tsushima wasn't criticized for when it should have been. Literally some of the most limited AI i've seen; when you release hostages and they just run out into the open path and field of vision of Mongols who do absolutely nothing :lol:

Graphical upgrades have been exceptional in the past decade or so but I wish game companies would focus more on getting character AI better.

rcoobc · Dec 16, 2020

Red dead redemption 2 is the closest thing to a third person western simulator ever made.

It's an incredible achievement.

Unfortunately the majority of the time, the wild wild west was probably quite dull

Bosws87 · Dec 16, 2020

TrustInJanuzaj said:
That's fair enough and I can understand why some don't enjoy it but for me its anything but boring. It's like playing a western movie and that comes with all the same pacing (issues or qualities) that those movies traditionally bring. I think whats rare though Is that completely immersive feeling of being the character which Rockstar achieved with Arthur in RDR2, the detail in the world is such that you could literally just take a walk and it would feel interesting. It also helps that I love the hunting, fishing and general shooting in that game.

Cyberpunk i also get and I'm enjoying it for completely different reasons.

Should really play Half Life Alyx, if you haven't if you really appreciate immersion makes RDR feel mundane.

The Firestarter · Dec 16, 2020

Paxi said:
Red Dead Redemption 2 is the best game ever made.

Boo.

Solius · Dec 16, 2020

Such a dumb idea to have skip forward because the same button as crouch.

Not only is my guy for some reason crouching during this conversation but in trying to stand up I've accidentally skipped dialogue.

SuperiorXI · Dec 16, 2020

Solius said:
Such a dumb idea to have skip forward because the same button as crouch.

Not only is my guy for some reason crouching during this conversation but in trying to stand up I've accidentally skipped dialogue.

Some of the default keybinds are a bit daft. Why is F the action button? :lol:

is it representative of the shite show so far?

Andersons Dietician · Dec 16, 2020

So my hunt to get an x box series x before the launch of this failed and I buckled and bought it for my Xbox S. The game content is interesting and fun but man, it looks like something you’d see on the Mega drive. It’s horrible. Things popping up out of nowhere, huge grainy blocky pixels, floating guns, invisible enemies, the constant loading screens and the damn crashing all the time.

It really seems like the old gen just doesn’t have the power to run it. I honestly can’t get over how bad the graphics are. It’s like doom or Duke Nukem. Feel like it misses out video dialogue or parts of the story at times and occasionally I’ve gotten a call and it’s two at the same time. So the cop lady and the dalsman taxi are speaking to me over the top of each other.

it really needs a lot of patching.

Mr Pigeon · Dec 16, 2020

Andersons Dietician said:
So my hunt to get an x box series x before the launch of this failed and I buckled and bought it for my Xbox S. The game content is interesting and fun but man, it looks like something you’d see on the Mega drive. It’s horrible. Things popping up out of nowhere, huge grainy blocky pixels, floating guns, invisible enemies, the constant loading screens and the damn crashing all the time.

It really seems like the old gen just doesn’t have the power to run it. I honestly can’t get over how bad the graphics are. It’s like doom or Duke Nukem. Feel like it misses out video dialogue or parts of the story at times and occasionally I’ve gotten a call and it’s two at the same time. So the cop lady and the dalsman taxi are speaking to me over the top of each other.

it really needs a lot of patching.

I think that whilst the game is indeed vast, the biggest issue with last gen performance isn't so much the consoles themselves but the lack of optimization by CDPR. Like a lot of stuff in this game, due to pressure to release it, they had to just get it to "work".

rcoobc · Dec 16, 2020

Mr Pigeon said:
I think that whilst the game is indeed vast, the biggest issue with last gen performance isn't so much the consoles themselves but the lack of optimization by CDPR. Like a lot of stuff in this game, due to pressure to release it, they had to just get it to "work".

Agreed.

Although I'm not sure it will ever run at 30 FPS on base PS4 /Xbox One

Moby · Dec 16, 2020

Solius said:
Such a dumb idea to have skip forward because the same button as crouch.

Not only is my guy for some reason crouching during this conversation but in trying to stand up I've accidentally skipped dialogue.

Lord Megadrive · Dec 16, 2020

rcoobc said:
Agreed.

Although I'm not sure it will ever run at 30 FPS on base PS4 /Xbox One

I do wonder if the fact that on PC it doesn’t use the core of an AMD processor efficiently is linked to the base console experience? After all they are aging AMD Jaguar cores. The extra grunt on the PRO and X versions is provided by their respectively stronger GPUs

Bosws87 · Dec 16, 2020

Solius said:
Such a dumb idea to have skip forward because the same button as crouch.

Not only is my guy for some reason crouching during this conversation but in trying to stand up I've accidentally skipped dialogue.

Took me a while to register what was happening at first I thought the fast forward effect was just part of being a cyber human

iluvoursolskjær · Dec 16, 2020

iluvoursolskjær said:
Have literally just sent my refund request on PSN. I got back to the apartment in the beginning of the game the other night and thought fuuuck this shit.

Mr Pigeon said:
1-0 to Microsoft. Can Sony equalise?

"Thank you for contacting PlayStation.

CD Projekt Red is currently working on patches and updates to fix bugs and crashes, and to improve overall gameplay experience of Cyberpunk 2077.

Please visit https://en.cdprojektred.com/ for information on any patches or updates to Cyberpunk 2077."

Absolute cnuts of the highest order, can't even reply to it!

I wouldn't really mind it sitting in the library until I get the ps5, but just the way they took everyone's money and fecked em' doesn't sit right with me.

Jack-C20 · Dec 16, 2020

VeevaVee said:
not played many RPGs, I’m guessing?

To be honest I actually don’t think I have. The only other time I had similar trouble was Destiny where I’d have to clear my inventory out occasionally but it didn’t make me run slower luckily. I have to say I admire the attention to detail in that aspect of this game at least.

Siorac · Dec 16, 2020

Jack-C20 said:
I have to say I admire the attention to detail in that aspect of this game at least.

It's been a core feature of RPGs for decades. It's less 'attention to detail', more 'genre staple'.

Balljy · Dec 16, 2020

iluvoursolskjær said:
"Thank you for contacting PlayStation.

CD Projekt Red is currently working on patches and updates to fix bugs and crashes, and to improve overall gameplay experience of Cyberpunk 2077.

Please visit https://en.cdprojektred.com/ for information on any patches or updates to Cyberpunk 2077."

Absolute cnuts of the highest order, can't even reply to it!

I wouldn't really mind it sitting in the library until I get the ps5, but just the way they took everyone's money and fecked em' doesn't sit right with me.

Yeah, that's pretty bad. You should say that you'll get the refund now and buy it again later after it's patched rather than wait a few months with a game you're not going to play until that happens. I reckon Sony will reverse their decision on this and allow refunds because it's getting to major news sites at the moment.

DatIrishFella · Dec 16, 2020

Bosws87 said:
Took me a while to register what was happening at first I thought the fast forward effect was just part of being a cyber human

Also the game has no AI for crowds or traffic. And here I thought it just needed a patch.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Drawfull · Dec 16, 2020

iluvoursolskjær said:
"Thank you for contacting PlayStation.

CD Projekt Red is currently working on patches and updates to fix bugs and crashes, and to improve overall gameplay experience of Cyberpunk 2077.

Please visit https://en.cdprojektred.com/ for information on any patches or updates to Cyberpunk 2077."

Absolute cnuts of the highest order, can't even reply to it!

I wouldn't really mind it sitting in the library until I get the ps5, but just the way they took everyone's money and fecked em' doesn't sit right with me.

Are the PSN store's terms even legal? I'm a PS fanboy, but their return policy has always sat badly with me, say compared to PC storefronts.

Lord Megadrive · Dec 16, 2020

Drawfull said:
Are the PSN store's terms even legal? I'm a PS fanboy, but their return policy has always sat badly with me, say compared to PC storefronts.

I thought under EU law you were allowed digital refunds? Hence why steam had to start offering it. (It’s within 14 days or something)

iluvoursolskjær · Dec 16, 2020

Balljy said:
Yeah, that's pretty bad. You should say that you'll get the refund now and buy it again later after it's patched rather than wait a few months with a game you're not going to play until that happens. I reckon Sony will reverse their decision on this and allow refunds because it's getting to major news sites at the moment.

I've sent a follow up to this explaining pretty much what you said. Will not be holding my breath nor any hope, though.

Drawfull said:
Are the PSN store's terms even legal? I'm a PS fanboy, but their return policy has always sat badly with me, say compared to PC storefronts.

I only started buying digital content over the last year or so tbh and have never had to return anything. Having now experienced it gotta say it seems proper dodgy for the consumer. The moment you start download you're fecked, how's that fair? There could be so many issues that pop up.

Lord Megadrive · Dec 16, 2020

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-get-a-refund-on-a-digital-download

Wonder if this applicable?

Bojan11 · Dec 16, 2020

Tweet
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Drawfull · Dec 16, 2020

iluvoursolskjær said:
I've sent a follow up to this explaining pretty much what you said. Will not be holding my breath nor any hope, though.

I only started buying digital content over the last year or so tbh and have never had to return anything. Having now experienced it gotta say it seems proper dodgy for the consumer. The moment you start download you're fecked, how's that fair? There could be so many issues that pop up.

I've been digital since PS4 launch and never really had a problem with anything I've bought, but I'd be super pissed off if I had bought this for that and gotten that response, automated or no.

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