Telegraph Football: Man Utd looking to appoint director of football this summer | Appointed

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Recruitment seems to have improved since Ole came in; particularly since January. It seems a spectacularly odd time for the DoF/recruitment policy stuff to have reared it’s head again.
Ole won't be around forever. It's been working well enough on the recruitment side with him there but that's not a long term plan when the managerial shelf life is only a couple of years anyway.

We absolutely need a DOF and hopefully we get it done this time. Woodward can concentrate on what he's good at, getting the next noodle sponsor signed up.
 

LUC1f3R

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Quick question:
Do you really think a DoF be appointed when this thread reaches 200 pages????
 

wolvored

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I hope this isn’t just another major decision they end up fecking up. We need someone who’s got top class connections and respect in the game. It would be so satisfying to see us snap up a few bargains, sell players quicker and stop with these terrible contracts.
If true Campos Mitchell and Overmars are the shortlist, either one of those have been successful.
 

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Find it hard to see Overmars at United but his signings have been great for Ajax. Ed seems to be into Ajax (weirdly). Ajax are quite different to United though.

Campos is probably the best but seems a bit of a gun for hire. How long would he stay? Campos seems more like a managerial hire.

Mitchell don’t know as much about how good he is but might be more long term than the other two.
 

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Out of that shortlist (if it’s even true) i think I’d prefer either campos or Mitchell.. I like what overmars and VDS have done at Ajax, but Overmars recently said he doesn’t particularly like the pressure at Ajax, so I’m not sure how that would work at United, where every signing is expected to perform,
So if it’s between Campos and Mitchell, and we’re going solely on past signings.. I’d go with Campos, he’s unearthed much brighter gems in the past, he’s spoken about the job already, and I think he’d relish the scale of the problem we have at United
 

devilish

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this is the narrative to compensate for our lack of transfer activity in January. We're REALLY preparing for the summer this time.
we already signed a winger ie Diallo. If Pogba leaves then I can see us add a CM as well. No one expects United to spend big in January anyway. We all know its a tough market. Also with Ole dragging us back into the mickey mouse cup with defeats against Istanbul whatever there's not much motivation to spend big either.
 

devilish

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United's system were everyone gets involved in transfers (manager, assistant, Judge, Woodward, the scouting team, the tea lady, Avram Glazer's parrot etc) is simply not working. We take ages to identify and negotiate our targets + we tend to keep going for the obvious signings (Jadon, Grealish, Maguire, etc). This lack of efficiency forces us to overspend and we tend to struggle to go beyond the 3-4 signings per window. In turn it forces us to give ridiculous contract extensions to players who are simply not good enough.

United need a guy who works 24/7 on transfers and whose already well connected with clubs and agents. That would make it easier for us to get rid of players and be in the front of the queue when a new talent pops up. We also need to be able to handle a high staff turnover with 5-6 players out and 6-7 players in. That can only be achieved by someone whose fully focused on that job alone. Meanwhile the manager should focus on stuff like tactics, fitness and coaching. God knows how much United need that.
 

cyril C

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Ole won't be around forever. It's been working well enough on the recruitment side with him there but that's not a long term plan when the managerial shelf life is only a couple of years anyway.

We absolutely need a DOF and hopefully we get it done this time. Woodward can concentrate on what he's good at, getting the next noodle sponsor signed up.
The whole purpose of a Technical Director, is to function under different Manager. In modern football world, a Football manager typically stays 2-5 years max, Fergi and Wenger are rare example, even the like of Moyes@Everton is rare. So the purpose of a Technical Director, is to maintain a consistency in recruitment strategy over a medium to long period of time.

Will the Technical Director work seamlessly with any football manager, I doubt it. Unless the Football manager reports to Technical Director, so you know who is the boss, or the overall MD smooths things out among the 2 for a coherent management team.
 

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And the endless contract renewals for the deadwoods...
The renewals would have concerned me more than our signings tbh. At least the signings can be argued made sense. Find anyone who could argue the same for renewing Jones.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Yes, Castles. I think his piece makes sense and I've provided a brief summary in my previous post. Unless people think the Glazer's are complete morons then I believe the penny will have dropped by now.
I am surprised they haven't gone down this route from the start as don't most US sports franchises have someone who deals with recruitment of players, coaches etc ?
 

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The stories about us wanting a DOF seem to be coming more frequently these days. Normally they come out after a bad result to placate the fans, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. Maybe there really is something in it this time. We can hope, at least.
 

Adisa

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Castles is saying that it's the Glazer's who are pushing for the appointment after United's ineffeciency in both player recruitment and player retention processes. The Glazers want the new man in charge before the summer transfer window opens.
'Retention'...our problem is the opposite.
 

charlenefan

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You just know that the the 2 guys we finally decide between, both will turn us down to stay at their current club. So we can spend 3 more years looking for a new one
On the contrary I think we'll get who we want but it'll be a disaster

The same people hiring for this position are those who have hired the last 3 managers, what faith has anyone got they'd get this position right when they've failed so spectacularly with that
 

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Ole won't be around forever. It's been working well enough on the recruitment side with him there but that's not a long term plan when the managerial shelf life is only a couple of years anyway.

We absolutely need a DOF and hopefully we get it done this time. Woodward can concentrate on what he's good at, getting the next noodle sponsor signed up.
Well that’s fair enough if you believe that the improved recruitment is principally down to Ole. I’m really not convinced that any of our managers post-SAF have had that much involvement in the process.

My point was that the DoF talk tends to appear when it’s apparent that our bad form is the result of poor recruitment. Which right now it isn’t.

Donny looks like a decent player, yet it’s hard to see where he fits into Ole’s beloved (and successful) 4231. So at least we’ve progressed from buying whoever agents have suggested to buying actually good players. It would be even better if we brought players in with some regard to whether or not the manager will be able to use them :)
 

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I understand the idea behind the DOF and the necessity to have one, but a DOF is a person who identifies players to fit the clubs system, tactics & style of play, much like Overmars at Ajax, but surely we have to have a distinct style of play in place first!!
Or do you hire a DOF with a play style in mind, they then recruit a new manager and players and coach’s from there? Either way just hiring a DOF won’t fix things in itself.
 

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Well that’s fair enough if you believe that the improved recruitment is principally down to Ole. I’m really not convinced that any of our managers post-SAF have had that much involvement in the process.

My point was that the DoF talk tends to appear when it’s apparent that our bad form is the result of poor recruitment. Which right now it isn’t.

Donny looks like a decent player, yet it’s hard to see where he fits into Ole’s beloved (and successful) 4231. So at least we’ve progressed from buying whoever agents have suggested to buying actually good players. It would be even better if we brought players in with some regard to whether or not the manager will be able to use them :)
Well yeah I agree. It's been ok since he's been here but you're right we don't know who it's down to really.

Although if you look at the type of players brought in under each manager they are generally the type of players each would favour.

Hopefully, there is some truth in it this time and we can get a long-term strategy in place that would allow for some continuity between managers rather than this lurch from one type to a wildly different type and the consequent dead-wood removal/rebuild cycle that goes with it.
 

Inigo Montoya

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I understand the idea behind the DOF and the necessity to have one, but a DOF is a person who identifies players to fit the clubs system, tactics & style of play, much like Overmars at Ajax, but surely we have to have a distinct style of play in place first!!
Or do you hire a DOF with a play style in mind, they then recruit a new manager and players and coach’s from there? Either way just hiring a DOF won’t fix things in itself.
Well we aren't are we? The idea has been mooted since Ole took over and it was reported around the time we beat PSG (3-1 away) that we'd employed a top recruitment firm to look into it. Nothing came of it, and I genuinely believe that Woody is the one performing this role anyway
 

AneRu

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United's system were everyone gets involved in transfers (manager, assistant, Judge, Woodward, the scouting team, the tea lady, Avram Glazer's parrot etc) is simply not working. We take ages to identify and negotiate our targets + we tend to keep going for the obvious signings (Jadon, Grealish, Maguire, etc). This lack of efficiency forces us to overspend and we tend to struggle to go beyond the 3-4 signings per window. In turn it forces us to give ridiculous contract extensions to players who are simply not good enough.

United need a guy who works 24/7 on transfers and whose already well connected with clubs and agents. That would make it easier for us to get rid of players and be in the front of the queue when a new talent pops up. We also need to be able to handle a high staff turnover with 5-6 players out and 6-7 players in. That can only be achieved by someone whose fully focused on that job alone. Meanwhile the manager should focus on stuff like tactics, fitness and coaching. God knows how much United need that.
This, just having someone whose sole focus is the transfer market will save a lot of money. I remember being shocked that Sheffield were allowed a free run at Sander Berge because I knew that United needed a player like him and would need him sooner looking at Matic's deterioration, same with Partey who Arsenal got whilst we were on a wild goose chase with Sancho.ó
I am surprised they haven't gone down this route from the start as don't most US sports franchises have someone who deals with recruitment of players, coaches etc ?
Its shocking that it took them this long and will actually take longer than this. Someone who helps the club get value for money should be an owner's dream because this is usually where the money is lost and once its wasted you are usually forced to spend again on the same position.
On the contrary I think we'll get who we want but it'll be a disaster

The same people hiring for this position are those who have hired the last 3 managers, what faith has anyone got they'd get this position right when they've failed so spectacularly with that
I think a DOF is easier to identify for a layman than a manager especially one with the responsibilities of a Manchester United manager. At United you arent just hiring a manager you are hiring a Head Coach, DoF and Head of recruitment combined in one person and expecting that person to succeed in all the aspects.
 
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Well yeah I agree. It's been ok since he's been here but you're right we don't know who it's down to really.

Although if you look at the type of players brought in under each manager they are generally the type of players each would favour.
I think it's been pretty hit and miss. I imagine Fellaini, Memphis and Lukaku were very much Moyes', LvG's and Jose's, though all three were badly managed by whichever manager had brought them in. Pogba though? And AWB and Maguire look much more like Jose players than Dalot and Lindelof.
Hopefully, there is some truth in it this time and we can get a long-term strategy in place that would allow for some continuity between managers rather than this lurch from one type to a wildly different type and the consequent dead-wood removal/rebuild cycle that goes with it.
Very much so! I'm not holding my breath though, and am limiting myself to being reasonably content with what Ole is doing in the short term.
 
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A DoF is not the silver bullet. The idea that he (or she), will sit above the manager and provide continuity as managers move through - is sound in theory.

however, what happens when the DofF fail, move on etc. Some clubs go through these appointments as often an managers. I could see the same thing happening to us.

like managers, it seems to be hit and miss, hire someone, if it doesn’t work, fond someone else, rinse and repeat until someone sticks.

What we have currently doesn’t work as well as it should, clearly shown by the changing styles and methodologies of our managers since Fergie. However, I’m not convinced this role will make it better.
 

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A DoF is not the silver bullet. The idea that he (or she), will sit above the manager and provide continuity as managers move through - is sound in theory.

however, what happens when the DofF fail, move on etc. Some clubs go through these appointments as often an managers. I could see the same thing happening to us.

like managers, it seems to be hit and miss, hire someone, if it doesn’t work, fond someone else, rinse and repeat until someone sticks.

What we have currently doesn’t work as well as it should, clearly shown by the changing styles and methodologies of our managers since Fergie. However, I’m not convinced this role will make it better.
The problem with the current system is that our football strategy is being authored by someone whose stay here is vulnerable to a bad run of results or a catastrophic injury - lose Bruno for the season and Ole is done.

Obviously the DOF has to be soundly scouted and like any other role in any other organization they can still fail. How many United managers failed since Sir Matt but did we stop looking? Even in American sports General Managers do fail.

The thing though, is that few managers are cut out for the dual role that a manager at United has because now the best come from Europe where the culture is different.

Look at how Van Gaal failed, his recruitment was poor but his coaching was good - despite the fact that it was boring he actually managed to imprint his vision on the team but utterly failed to have the necessary difference makers in his team to turn possession into wins.

Splitting the role would have ensured that when LVG and Mourinho failed we had someone to pick up the pieces early on. Do you think that when Woodward sacked LVG he had any other candidate in mind besides Mourinho? Did Woodward have the skill and connections to enable him to examine Mourinho's explosive character and his suitability to United's philosophy on youth, attacking football and other norms expected? In between his duties as CEO does he have the time to look into these issues?
 

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Ole for DoF?
Clear he has the United DNA in his blood and can spot a player, although development is varied. Ole "upstairs" with a new Manager/Coach might be an interesting approach......
 

devilish

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This, just having someone whose sole focus is the transfer market will save a lot of money. I remember being shocked that Sheffield were allowed a free run at Sander Berge because I knew that United needed a player like him and would need him sooner looking at Matic's deterioration, same with Partey who Arsenal got whilst we were on a wild goose chase with Sancho.ó
Transfers are the most unpredictable and toughest part of football. The person involved has to contend with clubs who want to make as much £££ as possible, agents whose interest vary from what is good for their players, to what is good for the club, what is good for themselves or what is good for their pool of players and players who are fickle prima donnas. One blink and months of hard work can go to the shitters. I was few meters away from Sir Alex Ferguson when he said at our supporters club that Gazza's deal had been done and dusted and he'll be signing for us after the weekend. Turned out that the old man allowed his guard down (he was on a holiday in Malta) and that was enough for Spurs to step in and feck us.

Which is why we need someone who is in the know how for 24/7 and had spent his professional life building contacts with agents and clubs. No manager/CEO can do that. They are too busy with their jobs.
 

Plymouth Red

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Campos, Mitchell and Overmars rumoured to be the short list, fww. I’d love to see Edwin and Overmars here, but I can’t see Ed voting for it.
 

AneRu

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Transfers are the most unpredictable and toughest part of football. The person involved has to contend with clubs who want to make as much £££ as possible, agents whose interest vary from what is good for their players, to what is good for the club, what is good for themselves or what is good for their pool of players and players who are fickle prima donnas. One blink and months of hard work can go to the shitters. I was few meters away from Sir Alex Ferguson when he said at our supporters club that Gazza's deal had been done and dusted and he'll be signing for us after the weekend. Turned out that the old man allowed his guard down (he was on a holiday in Malta) and that was enough for Spurs to step in and feck us.

Which is why we need someone who is in the know how for 24/7 and had spent his professional life building contacts with agents and clubs. No manager/CEO can do that. They are too busy with their jobs.
My point exactly, at United the most senior people involved with transfers are the manager and the CEO.

Imagine last season, our CL qualification went to the wire and in that time that's when most deals are agreed on so do we expect Ole to have the time to focus on convincing Haaland to come at a time when the team is playing a few games that could determine his future? But Juve would have a senior figure available to push the deal through and when we come in three weeks later the player is already looking at apartment listings in Turin.
 

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Ole for DoF?
Clear he has the United DNA in his blood and can spot a player, although development is varied. Ole "upstairs" with a new Manager/Coach might be an interesting approach......
No. That's a terrible idea. "United DNA" is a frustrating buzz word that's just used to prop up candidates. It's akin to the daft MOTD analysis we'd watch from Alan Hansan - "he has pace, he's fast, and he has desire"
 

AltiUn

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Campos, Mitchell and Overmars rumoured to be the short list, fww. I’d love to see Edwin and Overmars here, but I can’t see Ed voting for it.
If this is coming directly from the Glazers, as the reports seem to be saying, then there's not a right lot Woodward can do.
 

AneRu

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If this is coming directly from the Glazers, as the reports seem to be saying, then there's not a right lot Woodward can do.
Right on, all he can do is feck up the negotiations but even then he'd be taking an unnecessary risk that could cost his job. If I had a say in this I would want Woodward himself gone and start on a clean slate with another CEO.

I think Woodward is obsessed with the optics (looking like he has won the negotiations) of the deal instead of getting it done. It has always looked like doing this feels like him admitting failure and he has leaked watered down versions of the job to scare away potential candidates. Feels like he is pandering to his ego instead of doing right by the club.
 

devilish

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Campos, Mitchell and Overmars rumoured to be the short list, fww. I’d love to see Edwin and Overmars here, but I can’t see Ed voting for it.
I love Edwin but he is not a DOF. Its like asking prime Cantona to cover the GK role or prime VDS to play as a striker alongside RVN. We need to be smart and hire people whose got experience in that role.
 

JJ12

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I love Edwin but he is not a DOF. Its like asking prime Cantona to cover the GK role or prime VDS to play as a striker alongside RVN. We need to be smart and hire people whose got experience in that role.
That’s why he said Edwin and Overmars
 

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I love Edwin but he is not a DOF. Its like asking prime Cantona to cover the GK role or prime VDS to play as a striker alongside RVN. We need to be smart and hire people whose got experience in that role.
He wasn’t saying he wants Edwin here as DOF. He’s saying he wants both Edwin and Overmars here which would mean replicating what Ajax have with both of them (overmars DOF and Edwin CEO).
 

devilish

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My point exactly, at United the most senior people involved with transfers are the manager and the CEO.

Imagine last season, our CL qualification went to the wire and in that time that's when most deals are agreed on so do we expect Ole to have the time to focus on convincing Haaland to come at a time when the team is playing a few games that could determine his future? But Juve would have a senior figure available to push the deal through and when we come in three weeks later the player is already looking at apartment listings in Turin.
I agree with your argument but you surely picked the wrong player here. Haaland didn't only attract United's attention. He attracted the attention of many clubs including Juventus. There's a reason why they/we didn't sign him and that was that the terms Mino wanted for him are unacceptable. So in few words we dodged a bullet here.

What a top DOF would do is stopping Mino from playing us like a violin regarding Pogba. It's pretty evident that he's holding us by the balls on that one. Pogba will either leave on cheap on January/Summer or else he would go on a free the year after. A top DOF would have identified such threat early on, he would have sold Pogba when he was on top probably by accepting a huge fee + 1-2 top kids in the mix (Odegaard?). Pogba would then become Real Madrid's problem and we would have signed a top talent.
 

devilish

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He wasn’t saying he wants Edwin here as DOF. He’s saying he wants both Edwin and Overmars here which would mean replicating what Ajax have with both of them (overmars DOF and Edwin CEO).

In that case Ed would have no voting rights cause he would be sacked.
 
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