youth getting a fair crack of the whip?

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just bouncing a few ideas around, and while i was thinking it occured to me that the promising crop of young players that we currently possess are being somewhat overlooked.

In defense: Gaby Heinze (28), Rio Ferdinand (27), Wes Brown (nearly 27), Nem Vidic (25) and Mikael Silvestre (29) are all at peak ages. I'd give that crop atleast another 5-6 years, with an extra couple for Vidic. The point is, the likes of Evans and Pique are not going to be getting very far in that pecking order in the next few seasons. Evans has been very impressive for N. Ireland recently and when he returns from loan will be looking to get into the first team picture. Pique has been around here for 2-3 seasons and has gone out on loan ofcourse - but the same thing applies to him - he surely has got to be getting a look in soon.

Then in goals. Foster has made great strides and can look forwards to returning to OT next year and taking VDS' number 1 (or 19) jersey. But no, we sign a Pole in Goal who is actually only a year older than Foster and will himself have designs on being the number 1. Surely the best course of action would have been to sign a reliable number 2 for a season, and then bring back Foster next season?

The news that David Jones looks not to have made the cut at United, is both surprising and disapointing. We'd all heard very good things about him (especially on loan at PNE and Nijmegen), but he didn't even get a look in during preseason and has been completely overlooked for first team positions. This is all the more annoying when we see the perennial underachiever Kieran Richardson regularly make the first team sqaud.

Then there's Rossi. The jewel in the crown of the current crop. But where does he fit in. Not alongside Rooney, with Saha cetainly. But then for this season and then next he'll have to establish himself over both OGS and Smithy!! SAF clearly sees him as backup at the minute as he would not have let him go otherwise. Also, was Newcastle the best place? He's somewhere where there's no stability and mostly always a crisis. Not the best environment for nurturing forwards. He's not had a look in so far, and would've been better off dropping a division or going to a more lowly Premiership team. Then there's the fact that irrespective of what is said, SAF will definetly move for a "Ruud Replacement" eventually, so that further marginalises Rossi.

On the bright side, atleast Martin and Bardsley look as though they could become regulars in years to come. With all the talk of Giggs replacements, maybe the solution could be a little closer to home??
 

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The present crop of younger players from the feeder squads just aren't good enough.
 

Sarni

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ehsanul said:
So you want to say evans and gibson are not good enough???
Evans is a class centre-back but with our current collection in that department he is unlikely to make any step up in the near future.

I haven't seen Gibson, he could be another Internet legend.
 

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bobbobray said:
Then in goals. Foster has made great strides and can look forwards to returning to OT next year and taking VDS' number 1 (or 19) jersey. But no, we sign a Pole in Goal who is actually only a year older than Foster and will himself have designs on being the number 1. Surely the best course of action would have been to sign a reliable number 2 for a season, and then bring back Foster next season?
Are you certain Foster will make it with us? He's got a chance ofcource, but at this level we're not going to put all our eggs in the Foster basket. It's a cruel world, hopefully one of Foster/Kuszczak makes it, the one who doesn't will probably move on eventually. Thats the way it is.
 

greater wall

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It is an interesting question. Unfortunately have to go back to the Glazer debt situation, there is now a pressure to qualify for the CL at all cost and younger players are going to be inconsistent.

I wonder if there has been a change in transfer policy to buy 25-26 year old players who are already proven rather than rely on younger players. David Jones could be a victim of that, if the rumours are true. He needs to play and get experience and United need to get a proven experienced player instead.
 

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greater wall said:
It is an interesting question. Unfortunately have to go back to the Glazer debt situation, there is now a pressure to qualify for the CL at all cost and younger players are going to be inconsistent.

I wonder if there has been a change in transfer policy to buy 25-26 year old players who are already proven rather than rely on younger players. David Jones could be a victim of that, if the rumours are true. He needs to play and get experience and United need to get a proven experienced player instead.
tbh to much is made of the fact that glazer wants to trim the squad completely so that he can pay back the debt. the sale of david jones wouldn't be a drop in the ocean of the astronomical debt figure.
 

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greater wall said:
It is an interesting question. Unfortunately have to go back to the Glazer debt situation, there is now a pressure to qualify for the CL at all cost and younger players are going to be inconsistent.

I wonder if there has been a change in transfer policy to buy 25-26 year old players who are already proven rather than rely on younger players.
I think this could be the case. The pressure to qualify for the CL and to win the EPL has probably been detrimental to the youth system at United. You don't see too many from the youth system even getting a look nowadays. The reason is probably because when a company like Nike threatens to pull the plug after a few disappointing seasons, you tend to listen. Not to mention the money lost from a quick exit from the CL last year and Vodafone pulling out as well (even though the Vodafone deal didn't really hit us that hard with the agreement with AIG) and the debt we're already in from the Glazer deal. With so much money at stake, I think the club has become risk averse when it comes to the players coming through from the youth system.
 

kkcbl

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ehsanul said:
So you want to say evans and gibson are not good enough???
Haven't had the opportunity to see every youth player, especially the above two ( heard alot about Evan so he may yet flourish ) , but generally those who have made it to the first team, the likes of McShane, Spector, Eagles, Bardsley & even David Jones, so much talked about here as the new Keano, have failed, in varying degrees, to show they can make the cut at United.

Players of similiar ages in other teams ( your Downings & Antons ) have established themselves not only in their squads but are already making in-roads in their National set-ups & are becoming household names - like the Giggs, Nevilles, Scholes & Beckhams of some 12 years ago.

As the saying goes - if you're past 20 & still haven't established yourself, at least in the squad, then you probably haven't made it.
 

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lets face it. fergie doesnt believe in our youth players playing in first team anymore. it backfired him far too many times when we lost/drew with 'lower league' teams when he did play them.

none of our youth players will ever make it to first team anymore. stop dreaming.
 

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Scholesy_LEGEND said:
lets face it. fergie doesnt believe in our youth players playing in first team anymore. it backfired him far too many times when we lost/drew with 'lower league' teams when he did play them.

none of our youth players will ever make it to first team anymore. stop dreaming.
its not a case of dreaming!! i couldn't give a shite whether we produce youth players or buy them in. Ultimately there is greater satisfaction seeing local or at least British lads forming the core of the team and young players being given a chance, but if not there are plenty of foreign players who are passionate about the club: Cantona, Heinze etc.

But the question is, is youth being given a fair chance? people go on about how Jones has failed to establish himself! When was this, as i've barely seen him in the first team. Rossi has made something like 12 first team apps, yet is heralded as a great prospect and has been here for 3 years!! as for pique, i have heard in the spanish media that he is percieved as a future spanish captain. evans has been impressive and SAF says he can make 100 international caps. bardsley was good when deputising for neville and on return from rangers he would make a perfectly good back up to gaz, whilst being able to learn from him.

I think the youth at the club is better than we credit it, but they're not given the chance as often as they should be. To say it will considerably weaken our side is rubbish. for instance, against one of the more toothless premiership sides, whats the harm in blooding evans/pique alongside gary, gaby and rio. with vds in goal, that would be plenty of support for a young lad and would be more beneficial that sitting on the zaragoza bench or playing in belgium.

what about playing rossi alongside louis, as they dovetailed beautifully against charlton last season. in his current rut, it would allow rooney to be taken out of the firing line and give him a little competetion.

the problem really is that when SAF has played fringe/youth players, he lumps them in all together. This is naturally going to lead to the team looking onsiderably weaker. Don't forget that with the class of 92:
Neville came in alongside established players like bruce, irwin and schmikes.
beckham and scholes were alongside ince, robson, giggs etc.
The only time our young players are given a chance is like the FA cup match vs burton - where they are all inexpeienced and there are very few established class players along side them.

two fixtures on the horizon for instance are crewe in the carling cup and pompey at home in the league. if the players had not gone out on loan... this sort of line up could be played:

vds
gaz--rio--evans/pique--heinze
jones
carrick--scholes
ronaldo--rossi
saha

people that say that jones and carrick are similar are a little off the mark. SAF said that jones is very strong in the tackle, a competent distributor of the ball and a player who can score a few goals (keane-esqe??).
we know rossi can play, so that would be no risk, and in this system he'd prolly work better in THAT position than wayne.
the only "risk" in the line up is pique/evans - but evans has been terrific against top opposition in spain and denmark!!!

give the young guns a chance Fergie!!!
:devil: