Games against Top 6 Teams this Season

rooney2009

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We have been terrible in games against the top teams this season
I think they have realised our counter attacking style and the top teams have stopped giving us space to counter attack
How can we combat this?
Games against top teams this season....

Spurs - lost 6-1
Chelsea drew 0-0
Arsenal lost 1-0
Leicester drew 2-2
Man city drew -0-0

To win or stay in contention to win the league, we need to find a way to win the big games
 

romufc

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The difference is we have been very poor on the transition this season. We concede possession by trying to force the play too much.

Defensively, we don't look solid either which is a concern. Our big players have not turned up this season in crucial games. The likes of Pogba, Bruno, Martial need to really step it up.
 

Shane88

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That's why I don't have us as title challengers. We have this in the second half of the season...

Liverpool (A)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)
Spurs (A)

Gonna be a big reality check as we slowly slip away.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Shane88 said:
That's why I don't have us as title challengers. We have this in the second half of the season...

Liverpool (A)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)
Spurs (A)

Gonna be a big reality check as we slowly slip away.
Click to expand...
Jesus
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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rooney2009 said:
We have been terrible in games against the top teams this season
I think they have realised our counter attacking style and the top teams have stopped giving us space to counter attack
How can we combat this?
Games against top teams this season....

Spurs - lost 6-1
Chelsea drew 0-0
Arsenal lost 1-0
Leicester drew 2-2
Man city drew -0-0

To win or stay in contention to win the league, we need to find a way to win the big games
Click to expand...
Our record this year has been poor but when we break it down its perhaps not as bad as it looks.
Spurs - We were still getting up to speed, was a joke of a red card decision which means that's never a 6-1 game.
Chelsea - Boring game which we edged and if not for a couple of good Mendy saves we would have won.
Arsenal - Worst performance of the season, Arteta beat us tactically and deserved the win.
Leicester - We were by far the better team, should have won that one too really. Poor defensive errors cost us.
Man City - City weren't at the races and I think in an even game we probably should have won, but a draw was likely a fair result.

The real takeaway is that the sample is probably too small to judge, a couple of those games we would have turned into wins with a little more luck or lack of mistakes. We need to see how the trend continues going forwards, starting with the Liverpool game.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Shane88 said:
That's why I don't have us as title challengers. We have this in the second half of the season...

Liverpool (A)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)
Spurs (A)

Gonna be a big reality check as we slowly slip away.
Click to expand...
We are far better away anyway, sure it adds pressure, but unless fans are back in the stadium, it doesn't mean that much. We are capable of winning all those games.
 

Samid

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Shane88 said:
That's why I don't have us as title challengers. We have this in the second half of the season...

Liverpool (A)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)
Spurs (A)

Gonna be a big reality check as we slowly slip away.
Click to expand...
That's in the first half of the season. Liverpool (H) is in the second half.
 

UpWithRivers

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Its a different system. We played 5 at the back and 2 defensive midfielders against the top teams most of the time last season didnt we? This season has been a back four. Ole has tried to play more offensively and its better for the smaller teams but worse for the big teams. Its a flip of last season.

Plus Man City and Chelsea just shut up shop against us. They played really defensively. I guess they changed tactics. Not sure how we counter because we cant keep hold of the ball enough to control the game against big teams.
 
Last edited:

Dancfc

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TrustInJanuzaj said:
Spurs - We were still getting up to speed, was a joke of a red card decision which means that's never a 6-1 game.
Click to expand...
Spurs could and probably should have been 4-1 up even before that red card.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Shane88 said:
That's why I don't have us as title challengers. We have this in the second half of the season...

Liverpool (A)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)
Spurs (A)

Gonna be a big reality check as we slowly slip away.
Click to expand...
That looks daunting but we have started to play better as the season progressed. Let's wait and see how things look after the Liverpool match. This might be the barometer. If we can stand toe-to-toe with them (and this is a good opportunity to get something as Liverpool look a little out of sorts at the moment), this could entrench a champions mindset in the players' minds, moving forwards.

I'm not that optimistic, but I'm hopeful.
 

mewnew11

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UpWithRivers said:
Its a different system. We played 5 at the back and 2 defensive midfielders against the top teams most of the time last season didnt we? This season has been a back four. Ole has tried to play more offensively and its better for the smaller teams but worse for the big teams. Its a flip of last season.

Plus Man City and Chelsea just shut up shop against us. They played really defensively. I guess they changed tactics. Not sure how we counter because we cant keep hold of the ball enough to control the game against big teams.
Click to expand...
Agree!
Most big games we played with a different formation rather than a 4-2-3-1. This hinders our attack and the results show. The spurs game was a one off so not counting that.
i have observed that ole is confident when We have Cavani available , he then has great option from the bench to change the game.
liverpool is a good test . Lets see what ole does
 

El Zoido

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Shane88 said:
That's why I don't have us as title challengers. We have this in the second half of the season...

Liverpool (A)
Arsenal (A)
City (A)
Chelsea (A)
Spurs (A)

Gonna be a big reality check as we slowly slip away.
Click to expand...
Home or away makes no difference any more.
 

united_99

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Our record against the big teams was good under Ole ironically before Bruno arrived. We concede possession easily and Bruno is one of the main culprits and against the better teams we can’t afford this. He has to learn to be more disciplined against better opposition. This is most likely not the only reason, but I feel it is one of the reasons.
 

rooney2009

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I think we have the players and squad to compete this Season but we need to find a system to play
Pep has started playing without a striker and using a false no 9 maybe we should do the same and park the midfield and use Bruno as our false no 9
 

arnie_ni

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How important are the top 6 games? That's 10 games a season.

You have 28 others. Imo you should be looking to win 25 of those. Smash the so called weaker teams and that's 75 points. Your automatically in a title race there.

4 or 5 wins in the 10 games would comfortably see you first in most seasons no?

Would love to see a detailed breakdown from our title winning seasons of games vs top 6 and games vs others.
 

Ali Dia

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arnie_ni said:
How important are the top 6 games? That's 10 games a season.

You have 28 others. Imo you should be looking to win 25 of those. Smash the so called weaker teams and that's 75 points. Your automatically in a title race there.

4 or 5 wins in the 10 games would comfortably see you first in most seasons no?

Would love to see a detailed breakdown from our title winning seasons of games vs top 6 and games vs others.
Click to expand...
exactly. We just need a few draws or a scrappy win from the tougher games and to keep beating the small teams and we are right there. I can also genuinely see us knicking something at Liverpool.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Dancfc said:
Spurs could and probably should have been 4-1 up even before that red card.
Click to expand...
They weren't though so it doesn't matter. They certainly were the better team but that decision changed the game and ensured Utd had no way back. At that stage of the season, we were fighting back in loads of second-half performances so there's no guarantee we wouldn't have there either.
 

Sylar

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TrustInJanuzaj said:
They weren't though so it doesn't matter. They certainly were the better team but that decision changed the game and ensured Utd had no way back. At that stage of the season, we were fighting back in loads of second-half performances so there's no guarantee we wouldn't have there either.
Click to expand...
Agree
It really stopped any chance of us getting back in especially as were a second half team
The score line difference certainly isn't as high even if we lose with no red card
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Sylar said:
Agree
It really stopped any chance of us getting back in especially as were a second half team
The score line difference certainly isn't as high even if we lose with no red card
Click to expand...
Exactly right.
 

Judas

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El Zoido said:
Home or away makes no difference any more.
Click to expand...
Then why are we so much better away than at home if it makes no difference? Why are Liverpool still solid at home, but awful away? It must make a bit of difference at least, to say it makes no difference doesn't seem true for everyone.
 

Kasper

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Didn`t you guys have a brilliant record under Ole against the top 6 up until this season except for maybe Liverpool were it was 2 draws, 1 loss?
Could be wrong, but I thought Ole had done very well against the likes of Pep.
 

Sylar

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Kasper said:
Didn`t you guys have a brilliant record under Ole against the top 6 up until this season except for maybe Liverpool were it was 2 draws, 1 loss?
Could be wrong, but I thought Ole had done very well against the likes of Pep.
Click to expand...
He did
And his record against lesser teams wasn't great

It's somewhat shifted since lockdown
 

Borys

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I only got worried after last game vs City, which was first game against top team we were setup to win, and it felt like they were in total control of the game.

vs Tottenham we were not fit (plus other issues)
vs Chelsea, City (EPL) we went for a draw
vs Arsenal we made bad choice in terms of setup and they out-played us (most likely we were heading for a draw if it wasn't for the penalty anyway)
vs Leeds I thought we did very well, quite unlucky not to win

The only explanation which comes to mind is conversion rate we've had last season, but this would require deeper analysis. It certainly looks like we've overachieved in some games basing on xG, but it's not available for every game.
 

Matthew84!

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rooney2009 said:
We have been terrible in games against the top teams this season
I think they have realised our counter attacking style and the top teams have stopped giving us space to counter attack
How can we combat this?
Games against top teams this season....

Spurs - lost 6-1
Chelsea drew 0-0
Arsenal lost 1-0
Leicester drew 2-2
Man city drew -0-0

To win or stay in contention to win the league, we need to find a way to win the big games
Click to expand...
Sounds like another thread to bash the team, forget about the early parts of the season. We take one game at a time, if we beat the bottom 14 teams in the second half of the season we've got a good chance.
Think more about that than about
 

Corey

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TrustInJanuzaj said:
Our record this year has been poor but when we break it down its perhaps not as bad as it looks.
Spurs - We were still getting up to speed, was a joke of a red card decision which means that's never a 6-1 game.
Chelsea - Boring game which we edged and if not for a couple of good Mendy saves we would have won.
Arsenal - Worst performance of the season, Arteta beat us tactically and deserved the win.
Leicester - We were by far the better team, should have won that one too really. Poor defensive errors cost us.
Man City - City weren't at the races and I think in an even game we probably should have won, but a draw was likely a fair result.

The real takeaway is that the sample is probably too small to judge, a couple of those games we would have turned into wins with a little more luck or lack of mistakes. We need to see how the trend continues going forwards, starting with the Liverpool game.
Click to expand...
I don't know why everyone keeps saying this. Perhaps Arsenal were a bit less crap, but that game was a 0-0 all over. Neither team deserved a goal, which is backed up by the expected goals stat. The only goal came from a stupid penalty given away by Pogba.
 

el3mel

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We used to do well in big teams in Ole's first season by conceding possession and playing on the counter. Most big teams have figured this by now and prepare for it wisely. Pep put 2 DMFs against us in both the league and cup games to stop our counters. Chelsea and Arsenal played a super defensive game against us as well. They don't stupidly push forward leaving spaces for us anymore.

So it's time to change our only strategy in approaching big games and start trying to dominate them a little bit.
 

adexkola

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arnie_ni said:
How important are the top 6 games? That's 10 games a season.

You have 28 others. Imo you should be looking to win 25 of those. Smash the so called weaker teams and that's 75 points. Your automatically in a title race there.

4 or 5 wins in the 10 games would comfortably see you first in most seasons no?

Would love to see a detailed breakdown from our title winning seasons of games vs top 6 and games vs others.
Click to expand...
With crowd home advantage, the expectation normally is that you take at least half of the points at home against top opposition. Away games is usually damage limitation. City and Liverpool raised the bar over the past few seasons. Today... With no crowds, it's just about being the better team on the day.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Corey said:
I don't know why everyone keeps saying this. Perhaps Arsenal were a bit less crap, but that game was a 0-0 all over. Neither team deserved a goal, which is backed up by the expected goals stat. The only goal came from a stupid penalty given away by Pogba.
Click to expand...
I was just really disappointed in the performance against them. I think the back 3 for Arsenal caused us big problems and we never got a grip or control of the game. Arsenal didn't really deserve the goal but equally we did nothing to force the issue and that always opens up the chance you can get caught out.
 

rooney2009

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Matthew84! said:
Sounds like another thread to bash the team, forget about the early parts of the season. We take one game at a time, if we beat the bottom 14 teams in the second half of the season we've got a good chance.
Think more about that than about
Click to expand...
Definitely not bashing the Team
Ole used to be good against the top teams
The best managers have to continuously change their strategy and was wondering what the best strategy to beat this Top Teams apart from counter attacks
 

rooney2009

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This is the perfect week to make this right and end Liverpool's home record
We have got to keep it very tight and try to nick a 1-0
I don't think we can outplay Liverpool as their front 3 will destroy us if we try
 

Red00012

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What I’ve noticed about Liverpool lately with their poor results is the lack of shots on target.

Southampton - 1

Newcastle -4 ( 1 in the 1st 75 mins)

West Brom 2
 

JustinC00

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rooney2009 said:
We have been terrible in games against the top teams this season
Click to expand...
this season
Click to expand...
Against the top half of the league 4 Wins 3 Draws 1 Loss

City Draw
Leicester Draw
Everton Win
Tottenham Loss
Southampton Win
Aston Villa Win
Chelsea Draw
West Ham Win

Wouldn't say we've been terrible
 

rooney2009

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And the run continues
Chelsea next at the end of Feb
Hope we are still in the title race then
 

charlenefan

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So how about we switch this then and look at it that against the top 6 only Arsenal with a penalty and Spurs against 10 men have actually managed to beat us

Feck you haters :keano:
 

croadyman

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So frustrating that the penny dropped in the big six games a bit too late for a title race unfortunately
 

SirAnderson

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rooney2009 said:
We have been terrible in games against the top teams this season
I think they have realised our counter attacking style and the top teams have stopped giving us space to counter attack
How can we combat this?
Games against top teams this season....

Spurs - lost 6-1
Chelsea drew 0-0
Arsenal lost 1-0
Leicester drew 2-2
Man city drew -0-0

To win or stay in contention to win the league, we need to find a way to win the big games
Click to expand...
We've come a long way.

 

RUCK4444

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More positive improvement :D

We’ve equalled the 2nd best away games record as well, think it’s the invincibles team we’re level with if I read correctly.
 
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