The Five Eras of Solskjaer's Manchester United

RUCK4444

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Great read. One that I urge all Ole doubters to read through carefully. It does a lot to dispel any of the thoughts about him being tactically inept and also highlights the selection issues we've had for a large % of his time here.

Also, this team isn't finished yet. That is clear. Next season we will be a different animal entirely.
This.
 

rotherham_red

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Confirms a lot of what I already appreciated in Ole. He's moved mountains to get us where we are right now, under intense pressure with people also placing question marks on him, he's dealt with that incredibly well, he's never once shown that it's getting to him.

I really hope Ed and the board really back him so he can finish this team and make up for the awful previous transfer window they provided.
Absolutely.

It's a point I've raised time and time again on here which almost always gets ignored.
 

RUCK4444

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Absolutely.

It's a point I've raised time and time again on here which almost always gets ignored.
Yeah he's shown great character and hasn't wavered from his vision of what he wants a Manchester United side to be, what it should be.

You know Ole will always put the club first, no ego involved.

We have to back him to finish this rebuild, go big for the best players available in the positions we've got left to strengthen. If we do then we will challenge on all fronts.
 

Mattzo

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It's a very good article and showed that Ole has a very structured tactics. But he needs time to make his tactics perfect, and also he has to find a very good right wing to complete his puzzle pieces. Then only after the pieces are complete, Manchester United will become the beast in premiere league, and hopefully for the champions league as well

Unfortunately, there are some things that still have high uncertainty, especially with Pogba rumour that he will leave after this season and Donny vander Beek who still struggles with adaptation to premier league. Hope Donny will fill the gap if Pogba really left Manchester United.

Another thing that did not discussed in the article is that Ole is make preparation for a long term success. He picked some academy players and also recruited talented young players such as Facundo Pellistri and Amad Diallo. I think this strategy will make Manchester United have a very good depth of squad within one or two seasons.
 
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rotherham_red

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Yeah he's shown great character and hasn't wavered from his vision of what he wants a Manchester United side to be, what it should be.

You know Ole will always put the club first, no ego involved.

We have to back him to finish this rebuild, go big for the best players available in the positions we've got left to strengthen. If we do then we will challenge on all fronts.
Again, absolutely mate.

It pisses me off to think where we could have been if they had bought in just one of the first choice targets Ole wanted in the summer. Imagine having a Sancho in there so that Rashford could afford to be rested every now and then. Or a CB so that we didn't have to clench our cheeks every time the ball got anywhere near our defence.

I remember when that window ended and some Utd people on Twitter who I respect highly for their views were saying that this season would be a repeat of Jose's 3rd season. That the failure to get the CB that Ole wanted (like Jose before him) would ultimately cost him his job. That he would be paying for the sins of others.

The fact that Ole came through that and has got us as high as he has (though aided by the fall of Liverpool) is a testament to the long-term project that he has and his ability to use the resources that are at the club.

Yes people might say we're disjointed or "lack coaching" (whatever that means) but look at our team ffs. It is disjointed because it's missing 3 (arguably 4) crucial positions within it, where we are having to make do with subpar options (McFred are doing the job of what one proper DM would do, we have a LW/Striker playing RW, we have mainly had this generation's Silvestre partnering Maguire, and we arguably have a winger playing as the Striker more often than not too). Any team wouldn't be looking like the sum of its parts if that is what the manager has had to deal with. Pep had to spend the best part of a small country's GDP over two years on fecking FBs before he had City looking in any decent shape.

I don't think we'll get every position that we need (RW, CB, DM, Striker) filled in this summer, but I'd like to hope that at least two of those will be. My guess is that it will be RW and CB (along with a RB like Trippier to fill out the squad and provide competition to AWB), and we then move for the DM and ST the summer after, when Matic will be in the final year of his contract and Cavani will likely be on his way out too. I think getting two of those in will instantly improve us and be worth an additional 5-10 points alone, but irrespective I think we as a club have a lot to look forward to, and those of us who backed Ole and the team every step of the way will savour it in a way that others among this fanbase simply won't be able to do. That alone is sufficient to more, before any notions of wanting to say I told you so.
 

Mihai

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Yeah I mean the people who seriously thought Ole just came in and clapped his hands and cheered the team on were brain dead.
Why is it that every thread about Ole needs to turn into "Ole in/Ole out"? Why the needs for insults as well? Can't we have a normal conversation without these childish remarks?
 

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An excellent read with some quite easy to define sections since Ole has took over that I think we'd all recognise prior to the article.

Although no top targets were signed in the summer you can see the impact its had in allowing us to rotate and not burn out like previous seasons (it's early in the season yes, but with a much more hectic schedule)

We really are set up for a couple of first teamers to come in and lift the level considerably without a massive drop off when rotating.

Would have liked a bit more analysis on why the forwards have struggled for goals this season whilst the team is picking up its best results as with the pace of the front three, if we're allowing the bottom clubs to play more you'd expect there goals to increase with the space in behind, but it's been the opposite. That letting the bottom clubs play definitely highlights why every game seems to be more of a slog though as its not a game of attack vs defence like you would traditionally see when the big teams play the bottom clubs.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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An excellent read with some quite easy to define sections since Ole has took over that I think we'd all recognise prior to the article.

Although no top targets were signed in the summer you can see the impact its had in allowing us to rotate and not burn out like previous seasons (it's early in the season yes, but with a much more hectic schedule)

We really are set up for a couple of first teamers to come in and lift the level considerably without a massive drop off when rotating.

Would have liked a bit more analysis on why the forwards have struggled for goals this season whilst the team is picking up its best results as with the pace of the front three, if we're allowing the bottom clubs to play more you'd expect there goals to increase with the space in behind, but it's been the opposite. That letting the bottom clubs play definitely highlights why every game seems to be more of a slog though as its not a game of attack vs defence like you would traditionally see when the big teams play the bottom clubs.
I think the lack of goals is a form issue. We get a lot of chances but the finishing is not there at the moment.
 

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Great articles. I think the best value of them is that it just calmly shows how difficult to build a team with so many preconditions existing. Really hope most of us can stand by Ole to support him do his work because he has demonstrated how well he did after so many setbacks.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Very good read. Won't sit well with the "Ole is a PE teacher" and "Ole has no tactics" crowd though. Maybe Craig Burley should read this as well...
 

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That was a very interesting read.

My takeaways...

  • Ole wants to win the "Manchester United" way through fast, incisive, attacking football.
  • Ole needs the right players for that, which he had initially, hence the results in his caretaker period, but when injuries happened the squad players couldn't perform the same job.
  • Getting wins was a big struggle when several players were injured, or off-form.
  • Bruno came in and revolutionised the team as he was the exact piece of the jigsaw we needed.
  • When on-form, Pogba turns our team into a monster.
  • While we've added to our squad depth, there are still glaring holes, such as on the right wing.

It's an interesting retrospective on Ole's work so far. We've made good progress, but could still improve dramatically with a few quality additions such as CDM and RW.
 
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Sultan

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The article shows up those who don't have much insight into professional football and those who think Ole got the job due to "that goal" and he's just a PE teacher or out of his depth.

We tend to forget Ole has a team of professional coaches with years of experience and tactical analysts and to blame him alone for issues is disingenuous. Its a team effort from top to bottom.
 

city-puma

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The article shows up those who don't have much insight into professional football and those who think Ole got the job due to "that goal" and he's just a PE teacher or out of his depth.

We tend to forget Ole has a team of professional coaches with years of experience and tactical analysts and to blame him alone for issues is disingenuous. Its a team effort from top to bottom.
well said!
Also, the leader of the team, Ole, takes the responsibility to make the decisions, and layout, persuade people to support and implement his vision, for short-, mid-, and long-term.
 

bond19821982

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Great read, thanks for sharing mate.

This half arsed press is something we all have criticized the team for (including me) . Didnt knew we have a plan on that. I still think we are giving unnecessary importance to that since if a team decides to stay back they will sit back and this half arsed press wouldn't really help us go past it. It works now, so no complaints.

Author keep saying he didn't have the players to play 433 after Herrera left. Surprising as I though both Scott or Fred would perfectly replace Herrera.

Good article. Blame also has to goto Ed for not supporting Ole in the market. May be we could have invested better with that 150m.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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Why is it that every thread about Ole needs to turn into "Ole in/Ole out"? Why the needs for insults as well? Can't we have a normal conversation without these childish remarks?
I said nothing about Ole in or out, as I've never had much conviction for either side and understand some points from both sets of fans at times. But I have no time for supporters who genuinely thought that a manager heading a club in the most competitive league in the world didn't know how to use tactics in a match, hence my remarks. I would argue the people being childish are those that ever suggested such a thing in the first place.
 

Based Adnan

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So Ole purposely leaves gaps for the opposition to play out from so we can hit them on the counter? Disciple of Fergie or Gengis Khan?
 

Sandikan

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Part 5 had Mata as a key player.
Bizarre as he's barely been near it for months.

Interesting though, as everyone else said.Thought Kanye West had written it for a second from the titles!
 

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Very good analysis. Make me understand the complexity Ole has faced during his period. He had to rotate and change systems more often then he preferred because of injuries, restitution and lack of squad depth. I think Ole’s adaptability and problem-solving nature has been critical during troublesome times

The analysis make me realise our squad depth was horrible for a long time. It’s better and probably acceptable (minimum required level) today, but we need at least 3 players in order to be comfortable (squad depth): RW, CDM and a RB/CB-combo. I would also have preferred one more “Nr.9” in the squad, but I suppose it’s to much to ask for. Martial, Cavani and Greenwood should be OK compared to other vulnerabilities.

The squad-depth issue should be solved before September. It’s the key to further progress and success. Example: we don’t have to take to many precautions regarding intensity and we can play more consistent systems if we recruit the right players. One thing is for sure: we will face injuries also in the future.
 
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ChaddyP

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Honestly theres nothing new in that article for me. Clearly people really have short memories. Ole has been fantastic from the start. He's the right man for us hope we win the title with him. Would be fully deserved.
 
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Good article, although there are a few things I disagree with. Stats have to take into account the level of opposition, which is the one thing I think the article does overlook in parts.

Most notably the way it highlights Matic as a key aspect, when in reality he tends to only start against bottom teams so of course we're going to have a better record. For instance since the Spurs disaster he's only started in a midfield two against West Brom (19th), Sheffield Utd (20th), Wolves (14th) and Burnley (16th) in the league. Actually in the cups he did start in the League Cup win against Everton, but we also lost both of the two games in the CL (Basaksehir and Leipzig).

Similarly, when talking about last season after we signed Bruno it exaggerated the difference pre and post lockdown, or perhaps a more accurate thing to say is that it failed to acknowledge the difference in opposition quality. The article says we only won three and drew three of our six league matches so I presume it's also including the Spurs match (even though it does say before lockdown), but those six matches were Wolves, Chelsea, Watford, Everton, Man City and Spurs.
I mean, Matic was a starter throughout the second half of last season, meaning he played against the majority of the other 19 teams, including those games against Wolves, Chelsea, Everton and City. And the numbers are clear: he started 18 league games all season including 15 of the last 19, and United kept 10 clean sheets in those games (9 in the last 15). In the 20 that he didn't start: 3 clean sheets. The two biggest factors in the improvement going into the lockdown were Fernandes in attack and him adding solidity at the back.

This season, he's largely only been trusted against teams that sit deep as you said. Which sums up the problem quite nicely: Matic is obviously a key player in the team, because he's the only actual DM in the team, but we've all seen how he goes from a key player to a complete passenger when he runs out of gas, which has happened to him virtually every season since he arrived in England (most notably at the end of that post-lockdown run last season, the second half of his first season at United, and that nightmare 2015/16 season at Chelsea).

A younger version of him in this team would be worth an extra 5 points a season.
 

Ludens the Red

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Very good read. Won't sit well with the "Ole is a PE teacher" and "Ole has no tactics" crowd though. Maybe Craig Burley should read this as well...
The article shows up those who don't have much insight into professional football and those who think Ole got the job due to "that goal" and he's just a PE teacher or out of his depth.

We tend to forget Ole has a team of professional coaches with years of experience and tactical analysts and to blame him alone for issues is disingenuous. Its a team effort from top to bottom.
It's a very good article and showed that Ole has a very structured tactics. But he needs time to make his tactics perfect, and also he has to find a very good right wing to complete his puzzle pieces. Then only after the pieces are complete, Manchester United will become the beast in premiere league, and hopefully for the champions league as well

Unfortunately, there are some things that still have high uncertainty, especially with Pogba rumour that he will leave after this season and Donny vander Beek who still struggles with adaptation to premier league. Hope Donny will fill the gap if Pogba really left Manchester United.

Another thing that did not discussed in the article is that Ole is make preparation for a long term success. He picked some academy players and also recruited talented young players such as Facundo Pellistri and Amad Diallo. I think this strategy will make Manchester United have a very good depth of squad within one or two seasons.
I have to be honest I find this take from the article quite bizarre, these type of comments are echoed throughout the thread. It seems like you guys are almost attempting to use it as a stick to beat the Ole doubters with.

I read the comments before the article and expected to see something a little more deep, tactical and statistical and even some bites from Ole himself.

It shows that Ole himself probably hasn’t quite defined Ole the manager in terms of a tactic and style. It shows that he’s probably still significantly learning on the job. It also does show that he’s quite possibly the most hardworking and desperate to succeed manager we’ve had post Fergie but I think most knew this anyway.

Also this whole thing about Ole doesn’t know tactics is obviously daft.
I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t think United fans literally think Ole doesn’t know what a tactic or style of play is... and if they do they’re idiots.

Most people in football can recognise a tactic and style of play. The end goal and what separates knowledge and ability is implementing it successfully and powerfully enough.
Also being able to stand on the touch line and change a game of football that isn’t going your way. These are things Ole has struggled with since he arrived. It’s a high pressure job and I can understand it’s very easy to have tunnel vision and maybe not see the whole picture of a game.
I think our coaches should take some responsibility too for this. Which is why I don’t think surrounded himself with United legends is the way to go, go and bring in some top coaches.

Jose Mourinho can come on sky sports and pick apart a game of football tactically piece by piece and you’re sat there amazed, yet half the time his teams turn out to play you’re bored to death.

Ole using lots of different formations and tactics isn’t an indication of a deep or complex football mind and it doesn’t prove anyone who’s questioned Ole wrong. It doesn’t prove them right either. It shows he’s still not quite sure what he wants from this team and how he wants to go forward which is reflected in our kamakazee performances. It’s further reflected in the contradictory signings of a slow cb, and a full back who is limited going forward.
 

georgipep

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I have to be honest I find this take from the article quite bizarre, these type of comments are echoed throughout the thread. It seems like you guys are almost attempting to use it as a stick to beat the Ole doubters with.

I read the comments before the article and expected to see something a little more deep, tactical and statistical and even some bites from Ole himself.
I can't write for everyone else, but I think Pauly's analysis is the deepest tactical evolution analysis on Manchester United I have read, maybe ever. I'm not sure about your expectations but would love it if you provide an example of what you had in mind.

It shows that Ole himself probably hasn’t quite defined Ole the manager in terms of a tactic and style. It shows that he’s probably still significantly learning on the job. It also does show that he’s quite possibly the most hardworking and desperate to succeed manager we’ve had post Fergie but I think most knew this anyway.
I think you're mistaking adapting to circumstances with not having a defined desired tactic and style.

Also this whole thing about Ole doesn’t know tactics is obviously daft.
I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t think United fans literally think Ole doesn’t know what a tactic or style of play is... and if they do they’re idiots.
You know very well what incredible percentage of users here on the Caf are strong believers that Ole wins purely on "individual brilliance" and "still can't see any coherent style or patterns of play". Most of them have been a tad more quiet in the last weeks.

Most people in football can recognise a tactic and style of play. The end goal and what separates knowledge and ability is implementing it successfully and powerfully enough.
Most people here are NOT people in football. Also, watching pundits and reading journalists' articles and analysis, I am very confident in saying that most people in and around football do not recognise tactic and style of play. Majority of people only see decisions and consequences, but not tactical reasons. The weak pressure from our attacking players is a very good example. Most pundits and journalists use stats like "pressures per 90" and "dispossesions", etc. to show how inneffective they are. Not realy seeing the bigger picture.

Also being able to stand on the touch line and change a game of football that isn’t going your way. These are things Ole has struggled with since he arrived. It’s a high pressure job and I can understand it’s very easy to have tunnel vision and maybe not see the whole picture of a game.
I think our coaches should take some responsibility too for this. Which is why I don’t think surrounded himself with United legends is the way to go, go and bring in some top coaches.
You can change a game of football if you have the instruments to do so. Put Guardiola/Klopp in charge of Burnley and let's see how they change results. Ole struggled with lacking options. Throwing Lingard on for Pereira is not going to dramatically change the course of a game, regardless of tactics or new instructions.
The fact that we're top of the table on winning points from losing positions this season should be telling you plenty about Ole's ability to change a game of football.

Jose Mourinho can come on sky sports and pick apart a game of football tactically piece by piece and you’re sat there amazed, yet half the time his teams turn out to play you’re bored to death.
I'm not sure what's your point here. Mourinho is a top manager and has a very good eye for spotting tactics and instructions. He is a joy to watch as a pundit. Unfortunately, he is no longer a pundit and there aren't any out there that are even close to his quality. As a manager, we have first-hand experience, so no need to go into that.

Ole using lots of different formations and tactics isn’t an indication of a deep or complex football mind and it doesn’t prove anyone who’s questioned Ole wrong. It doesn’t prove them right either. It shows he’s still not quite sure what he wants from this team and how he wants to go forward which is reflected in our kamakazee performances. It’s further reflected in the contradictory signings of a slow cb, and a full back who is limited going forward.
Using lots of formations and tactics has nothing to do with complex football and everything to do with adapting to circumstances. Did you truly read the articles?
 

Ludens the Red

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I can't write for everyone else, but I think Pauly's analysis is the deepest tactical evolution analysis on Manchester United I have read, maybe ever. I'm not sure about your expectations but would love it if you provide an example of what you had in mind.
Like I said I thought there’d be bits based off of things Ole has said.

I think you're mistaking adapting to circumstances with not having a defined desired tactic and style.
Nope I am not mistaking the two. I am aware of the difference. Whilst on occasion Ole may have had to adapt to circumstance I still believe he still doesn’t have a defined style. It’s actually incredibly obvious. You watch us play and you can see that.
He wanted to play a high line and with inside forwards but signed a rb who can’t attack and a centre back who’s slow so we had to change things. I mean how much more obvious does it need to be?

You know very well what incredible percentage of users here on the Caf are strong believers that Ole wins purely on "individual brilliance" and "still can't see any coherent style or patterns of play". Most of them have been a tad more quiet in the last weeks.
As I said, they’d be idiots to think that. Sort of doesn’t really address my point either way, which is the implementation of a style and tactic which I still think is missing.

Most people here are NOT people in football. Also, watching pundits and reading journalists' articles and analysis, I am very confident in saying that most people in and around football do not recognise tactic and style of play. Majority of people only see decisions and consequences, but not tactical reasons. The weak pressure from our attacking players is a very good example. Most pundits and journalists use stats like "pressures per 90" and "dispossesions", etc. to show how inneffective they are. Not realy seeing the bigger picture.
I disagree. There’s enough people in and outside football who can work it out. With the obsession with statistics yes people occasionally can’t see the bigger picture but enough can to see and tell you where Uniteds problems have lied.

You can change a game of football if you have the instruments to do so. Put Guardiola/Klopp in charge of Burnley and let's see how they change results. Ole struggled with lacking options. Throwing Lingard on for Pereira is not going to dramatically change the course of a game, regardless of tactics or new instructions.
The fact that we're top of the table on winning points from losing positions this season should be telling you plenty about Ole's ability to change a game of football.
You’re simplifying it to defend Ole. I accept that but don’t agree. I’m not just talking about a simple substitution. I’m talking about United struggling to keep the ball against Southampton and being overran in midfield with a two of Pogba and Matic and literally nothing being done about it from our coaching team. No sub, no individual instructions. If tom, dick and Harry are moaning about in on redcafe during the match day thread then you wonder why our team can’t see it.

I'm not sure what's your point here. Mourinho is a top manager and has a very good eye for spotting tactics and instructions. He is a joy to watch as a pundit. Unfortunately, he is no longer a pundit and there aren't any out there that are even close to his quality. As a manager, we have first-hand experience, so no need to go into that.
my point is that tactical knowledge and thought doesn’t automatically mean good football or that doubts about Ole are negated. Because as I’ve said repeatedly this needs to be reflected on the pitch.
I think we’ve changed games around this season by sheer will power not necessarily great tactical changes. I’ve said this before but these players are 100% behind Ole and he motivates them well. This squads determination and will isn’t something id question at all. Our comebacks under fergie were very rarely down to masterful tactical changes and just pure will.

Using lots of formations and tactics has nothing to do with complex football and everything to do with adapting to circumstances. Did you truly read the articles?
The problem here is that I didn’t say that at all. You’ve twisted it and simplified it. I specifically said in Oles case it’s more to do with him still measuring this squad out. I even said it doesn’t prove anyone right or wrong.
 

Number32

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Ole using lots of different formations and tactics isn’t an indication of a deep or complex football mind and it doesn’t prove anyone who’s questioned Ole wrong. It doesn’t prove them right either. It shows he’s still not quite sure what he wants from this team and how he wants to go forward which is reflected in our kamakazee performances. It’s further reflected in the contradictory signings of a slow cb, and a full back who is limited going forward.
Did Fergie was also using lots of different formations and tactics in 2002-2007? No one said "he’s still not quite sure what he wants from this team and how he wants to go forward".
In contrary we said "Fergie was a tactical genius who adapt his team very well with his tactical evolution". To be clear, I'm not saying Ole's team is on the same level with Fergie's team. But like you said, "The end goal" is what matter, and I think you misjudged him because he hasn't won anything for us yet.

Ole is filling his puzzle pieces by pieces until he got his final pattern, because he knows Woodward is no Abramovich who can buy any players and build a strong team in one transfer window. He is not as Kamikaze as Bielsa who has a clear 'pattern' of tactic and force his squad to play his football despite it would failed when he doesn't has the quality players to play that pattern. Ole might once did the same thing with Cardiff, but he said "he learn from it".
Why he bought a "slow CB" and a "limited RB"? because we were desperately short of options in defense and need to replace the deadwoods as soon as possible. It would be more kamikaze performance if he did nothing or signed unproven premiere league defenders. He clearly thinks there are rooms for improvement for them, or at least we can improve the fitness level of our defenders. You can't play with injury prone players all the time, and they are improving lately, so nothing wrong with that signings.
 

kaiz

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I’m talking about United struggling to keep the ball against Southampton and being overran in midfield with a two of Pogba and Matic and literally nothing being done about it from our coaching team. No sub, no individual instructions. If tom, dick and Harry are moaning about in on redcafe during the match day thread then you wonder why our team can’t see it.
IIRC, United struggled initially with Southamption's press and conceded a goal. Eventually, we played through their press and even scored one with the Martial's goal. Then we were well on top and created enough chances to finish the game but didn't and conceded the equalizer late.
 

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Like I said I thought there’d be bits based off of things Ole has said.



Nope I am not mistaking the two. I am aware of the difference. Whilst on occasion Ole may have had to adapt to circumstance I still believe he still doesn’t have a defined style. It’s actually incredibly obvious. You watch us play and you can see that.
He wanted to play a high line and with inside forwards but signed a rb who can’t attack and a centre back who’s slow so we had to change things. I mean how much more obvious does it need to be?
Well, I definitely see our style and have been able to for quite some time. Also, it has been quite obvious, to me, why we brought Maguire and AWB. Maguire brought a lot of calmness to our defense and enables us to play from the back without relying on the midfielders to drop deep. (also heavily emphasized in the analysis articles, which you say you've read)

As I said, they’d be idiots to think that. Sort of doesn’t really address my point either way, which is the implementation of a style and tactic which I still think is missing.


I disagree. There’s enough people in and outside football who can work it out. With the obsession with statistics yes people occasionally can’t see the bigger picture but enough can to see and tell you where Uniteds problems have lied.


You’re simplifying it to defend Ole. I accept that but don’t agree. I’m not just talking about a simple substitution. I’m talking about United struggling to keep the ball against Southampton and being overran in midfield with a two of Pogba and Matic and literally nothing being done about it from our coaching team. No sub, no individual instructions. If tom, dick and Harry are moaning about in on redcafe during the match day thread then you wonder why our team can’t see it.
It seems you completely ignore the fact that football is played between two teams and our opponents are allowed to play well. And sometimes you can't just shout something from the sidelines and change the course of a game. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be any games where the "lesser" teams win unexpected points.

my point is that tactical knowledge and thought doesn’t automatically mean good football or that doubts about Ole are negated. Because as I’ve said repeatedly this needs to be reflected on the pitch.
I think we’ve changed games around this season by sheer will power not necessarily great tactical changes. I’ve said this before but these players are 100% behind Ole and he motivates them well. This squads determination and will isn’t something id question at all. Our comebacks under fergie were very rarely down to masterful tactical changes and just pure will.
Well, we've had some clear changes in tactics and instructions in some of the games we've turned around. Latest example is the Burnley game. We started playing vertical passes through the midfield a lot more in the second half, also increasing the tempo of play. That has nothing to do with "sheer will power". You sound a lot like Roy Keane and his panacea answer of "right attitude".

The problem here is that I didn’t say that at all. You’ve twisted it and simplified it. I specifically said in Oles case it’s more to do with him still measuring this squad out. I even said it doesn’t prove anyone right or wrong.
I understand what you said and I disagree. I don't think he has been measuring the squad at all in competitive games. I think he was forced to play players and systems because of necessity, not because he wasn't sure how they'd fit or of their quality.
 

Ludens the Red

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Did Fergie was also using lots of different formations and tactics in 2002-2007? No one said "he’s still not quite sure what he wants from this team and how he wants to go forward".
In contrary we said "Fergie was a tactical genius who adapt his team very well with his tactical evolution". To be clear, I'm not saying Ole's team is on the same level with Fergie's team. But like you said, "The end goal" is what matter, and I think you misjudged him because he hasn't won anything for us yet.

Ole is filling his puzzle pieces by pieces until he got his final pattern, because he knows Woodward is no Abramovich who can buy any players and build a strong team in one transfer window. He is not as Kamikaze as Bielsa who has a clear 'pattern' of tactic and force his squad to play his football despite it would failed when he doesn't has the quality players to play that pattern. Ole might once did the same thing with Cardiff, but he said "he learn from it".
Why he bought a "slow CB" and a "limited RB"? because we were desperately short of options in defense and need to replace the deadwoods as soon as possible. It would be more kamikaze performance if he did nothing or signed unproven premiere league defenders. He clearly thinks there are rooms for improvement for them, or at least we can improve the fitness level of our defenders. You can't play with injury prone players all the time, and they are improving lately, so nothing wrong with that signings.
I think if you start off at a club, the first thing to do is to try and implement a style and tactic you believe in. I think if you’re a manager of a club with a multi million pound squad you can begin to mould the team in your image as you will have very good footballers at your disposal. Not all the players will be capable of playing the system but you should not divert from it. You should then sign players who fit in with it. After this is done you should then begin to work on alternative systems and tactics but only once you have your core system in place.

This is what the most successful managers in recent times have done. Maybe I’m wrong though and Ole’s scattergun approach will deliver trophies. If it does great but I’m just going by what I’ve seen in football over the years. I cannot just be blind to it because it’s Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

Signing players just to replace dead weight who don’t fit into your system is just putting square pegs in round holes. You can’t dress it up as anything else. I don’t think Maguire and Wan Bissaka are bad signings or bad players but if you’re given 130 million to spend on two defenders you should make sure they fit in with the long term system you want. Wan Bissaka is however only 23 and has the attributes to improve his game. It’s up to our staff to get that out of him. Maguire is never going to be quick, agile and posses the balance to play in a high line so that is a problem.
 

georgipep

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I think if you start off at a club, the first thing to do is to try and implement a style and tactic you believe in. I think if you’re a manager of a club with a multi million pound squad you can begin to mould the team in your image as you will have very good footballers at your disposal. Not all the players will be capable of playing the system but you should not divert from it. You should then sign players who fit in with it. After this is done you should then begin to work on alternative systems and tactics but only once you have your core system in place.

This is what the most successful managers in recent times have done. Maybe I’m wrong though and Ole’s scattergun approach will deliver trophies. If it does great but I’m just going by what I’ve seen in football over the years. I cannot just be blind to it because it’s Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

Signing players just to replace dead weight who don’t fit into your system is just putting square pegs in round holes. You can’t dress it up as anything else. I don’t think Maguire and Wan Bissaka are bad signings or bad players but if you’re given 130 million to spend on two defenders you should make sure they fit in with the long term system you want. Wan Bissaka is however only 23 and has the attributes to improve his game. It’s up to our staff to get that out of him. Maguire is never going to be quick, agile and posses the balance to play in a high line so that is a problem.
You are looking at squad tactics quite simplistically as "one tactic for all occasions". That's not true for ANY team, regardless of size or stature. Look at Manchester City's approach in their games against us recently, versus how they played us last season. Liverpool have adapted their game significantly when playing in Europe, vs. City and Spurs too. And the same type of examples can be given for, literally, every single club (I'd argue that even Bielsa makes adaptations).

Ole hasn't used any scattergun approach. He has employed tactics to suit the occasion and circumstances.

Both Maguire and Wan-Bissaka fit with the manager's plans and squad. You may not like them but that doesn't change the facts one bit.
 

MadDogg

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I mean, Matic was a starter throughout the second half of last season, meaning he played against the majority of the other 19 teams, including those games against Wolves, Chelsea, Everton and City. And the numbers are clear: he started 18 league games all season including 15 of the last 19, and United kept 10 clean sheets in those games (9 in the last 15). In the 20 that he didn't start: 3 clean sheets. The two biggest factors in the improvement going into the lockdown were Fernandes in attack and him adding solidity at the back.

This season, he's largely only been trusted against teams that sit deep as you said. Which sums up the problem quite nicely: Matic is obviously a key player in the team, because he's the only actual DM in the team, but we've all seen how he goes from a key player to a complete passenger when he runs out of gas, which has happened to him virtually every season since he arrived in England (most notably at the end of that post-lockdown run last season, the second half of his first season at United, and that nightmare 2015/16 season at Chelsea).

A younger version of him in this team would be worth an extra 5 points a season.
They were mostly two separate points that I was making - Matic in particular this season, and meanwhile the run of games last season not being quite as the article indicated.

But putting them together, the top teams he did play against in that run last season (other than Sheff Utd and Leicester who were in freefall as I stated) he did so with Fred next to him. So it wasn't Matic being the DM by himself which is how we seem to insist on using him the majority of times, but a combination. Six of those ten clean sheets came when he had Fred (five times) or McTominay (once) next to him. Personally I've wanted us to install Matic-Fred as our main combination since the start of this season as I do think it is our most balanced midfield, and then rotate that as needed with McTominay or Pogba (VDB?) coming in depending on what we need each match and to keep Matic fresh. So I'm not hating on Matic or anything, I definitely recognise what he brings us and I'd love to have a younger/better version of him. But I know a lot of people seem to think that player could then play as our DM by himself while we play two attacking midfielders next to him, but against the majority of teams in the league I still think we'd probably need Fred in there as well.
 

city-puma

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I have to be honest I find this take from the article quite bizarre, these type of comments are echoed throughout the thread. It seems like you guys are almost attempting to use it as a stick to beat the Ole doubters with.

I read the comments before the article and expected to see something a little more deep, tactical and statistical and even some bites from Ole himself.

It shows that Ole himself probably hasn’t quite defined Ole the manager in terms of a tactic and style. It shows that he’s probably still significantly learning on the job. It also does show that he’s quite possibly the most hardworking and desperate to succeed manager we’ve had post Fergie but I think most knew this anyway.

Also this whole thing about Ole doesn’t know tactics is obviously daft.
I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t think United fans literally think Ole doesn’t know what a tactic or style of play is... and if they do they’re idiots.

Most people in football can recognise a tactic and style of play. The end goal and what separates knowledge and ability is implementing it successfully and powerfully enough.
Also being able to stand on the touch line and change a game of football that isn’t going your way. These are things Ole has struggled with since he arrived. It’s a high pressure job and I can understand it’s very easy to have tunnel vision and maybe not see the whole picture of a game.
I think our coaches should take some responsibility too for this. Which is why I don’t think surrounded himself with United legends is the way to go, go and bring in some top coaches.

Jose Mourinho can come on sky sports and pick apart a game of football tactically piece by piece and you’re sat there amazed, yet half the time his teams turn out to play you’re bored to death.

Ole using lots of different formations and tactics isn’t an indication of a deep or complex football mind and it doesn’t prove anyone who’s questioned Ole wrong. It doesn’t prove them right either. It shows he’s still not quite sure what he wants from this team and how he wants to go forward which is reflected in our kamakazee performances. It’s further reflected in the contradictory signings of a slow cb, and a full back who is limited going forward.
No offense but TBH, it seems more like you don’t see the big picture of what Ole is trying to build; or, it’s the case that you just simply do not think that strategy and the big picture are good.
 

SadlerMUFC

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They were mostly two separate points that I was making - Matic in particular this season, and meanwhile the run of games last season not being quite as the article indicated.

But putting them together, the top teams he did play against in that run last season (other than Sheff Utd and Leicester who were in freefall as I stated) he did so with Fred next to him. So it wasn't Matic being the DM by himself which is how we seem to insist on using him the majority of times, but a combination. Six of those ten clean sheets came when he had Fred (five times) or McTominay (once) next to him. Personally I've wanted us to install Matic-Fred as our main combination since the start of this season as I do think it is our most balanced midfield, and then rotate that as needed with McTominay or Pogba (VDB?) coming in depending on what we need each match and to keep Matic fresh. So I'm not hating on Matic or anything, I definitely recognise what he brings us and I'd love to have a younger/better version of him. But I know a lot of people seem to think that player could then play as our DM by himself while we play two attacking midfielders next to him, but against the majority of teams in the league I still think we'd probably need Fred in there as well.
I think Ole typically partners Fred with McTominay and Matic with Pogba with balance in mind. I think it's because he likes to have a left footer and a right footer partner each other in his midfield. So we will rarely see Pogba and McTominay or Matic and Fred...
 

Ludens the Red

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You are looking at squad tactics quite simplistically as "one tactic for all occasions". That's not true for ANY team, regardless of size or stature. Look at Manchester City's approach in their games against us recently, versus how they played us last season. Liverpool have adapted their game significantly when playing in Europe, vs. City and Spurs too. And the same type of examples can be given for, literally, every single club (I'd argue that even Bielsa makes adaptations).

Ole hasn't used any scattergun approach. He has employed tactics to suit the occasion and circumstances.

Both Maguire and Wan-Bissaka fit with the manager's plans and squad. You may not like them but that doesn't change the facts one bit.
I didn’t reply to your previous post because you keep taking what I say, dumbing it down and trying to make it seem like a simplistic view.
I didn’t say we should have one tactic to fit all.
I specifically said to start with you should adopt a system that you want to be your main style and then once that’s implemented then you start mixing it up and making the small changes. Not the other way round.

You’re giving Liverpool as an example. Under Klopp they have literally done exactly as I suggested.
He came in, made them play his way, shipped out anyone who couldn’t work in it. Signed players who could and once they’d mastered it he began adapting the system to deal with the different challenges and they went on and won the league and European Cup. Klopp wasn’t chopping and changing formation and style in his first few years at Liverpool.

As for Maguire and Wan Bissaka fitting the plan. I think this is open to interpretation. You can point to Maguire being comfortable on the ball I can point to him being slow and not an ideal defender for a high pressing system which is how it initially looked like Ole wanted to play.

Ole has had four transfer windows and he’s not signed a right winger (does diallo count?) meaning he expects our attacks on the right to come from Wan Bissaka, either that or he doesn’t think attacking down the right is important. Wan Bissaka isn’t particularly good at taking up positions and attacking space the way an attacking wing back should. So that’s my interpretation of it. I could think of about twenty more suitable players for the style it initially looked like Ole wanted.

No offense but TBH, it seems more like you don’t see the big picture of what Ole is trying to build; or, it’s the case that you just simply do not think that strategy and the big picture are good.
I see the big picture, the big picture is Ole is still trying to work things out and get this team playing how he wants and he himself hasn’t quite pinpointed what he wants.
This is reflected in factual evidence such as ...
- multiple formations used across games
- players being moved around to different positions to accommodate other players
- inconsistent performances, ranging from very good to mediocre
- an unidentifiable style of play and system
- the signing of players not suited to the initial ‘plan’

Pretending that what we’ve seen so far was some well thought out plan is bullshit.
Experienced and successful managers generally have a formula .

I’m delighted with the results we’ve had in the league over the year and we are in a good position but what we’re doing right now may not be sustainable for long term success.
 

city-puma

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I didn’t reply to your previous post because you keep taking what I say, dumbing it down and trying to make it seem like a simplistic view.
I didn’t say we should have one tactic to fit all.
I specifically said to start with you should adopt a system that you want to be your main style and then once that’s implemented then you start mixing it up and making the small changes. Not the other way round.

You’re giving Liverpool as an example. Under Klopp they have literally done exactly as I suggested.
He came in, made them play his way, shipped out anyone who couldn’t work in it. Signed players who could and once they’d mastered it he began adapting the system to deal with the different challenges and they went on and won the league and European Cup. Klopp wasn’t chopping and changing formation and style in his first few years at Liverpool.

As for Maguire and Wan Bissaka fitting the plan. I think this is open to interpretation. You can point to Maguire being comfortable on the ball I can point to him being slow and not an ideal defender for a high pressing system which is how it initially looked like Ole wanted to play.

Ole has had four transfer windows and he’s not signed a right winger (does diallo count?) meaning he expects our attacks on the right to come from Wan Bissaka, either that or he doesn’t think attacking down the right is important. Wan Bissaka isn’t particularly good at taking up positions and attacking space the way an attacking wing back should. So that’s my interpretation of it. I could think of about twenty more suitable players for the style it initially looked like Ole wanted.



I see the big picture, the big picture is Ole is still trying to work things out and get this team playing how he wants and he himself hasn’t quite pinpointed what he wants.
This is reflected in factual evidence such as ...
- multiple formations used across games
- players being moved around to different positions to accommodate other players
- inconsistent performances, ranging from very good to mediocre
- an unidentifiable style of play and system
- the signing of players not suited to the initial ‘plan’

Pretending that what we’ve seen so far was some well thought out plan is bullshit.
Experienced and successful managers generally have a formula .

I’m delighted with the results we’ve had in the league over the year and we are in a good position but what we’re doing right now may not be sustainable for long term success.
But you are definitely aware that we could not get every player we wanted to have, right? Sancho, Haarland, Bellingham, Reguion, etc...
The real world is complicated really.
 

georgipep

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I didn’t reply to your previous post because you keep taking what I say, dumbing it down and trying to make it seem like a simplistic view.
I didn’t say we should have one tactic to fit all.
I specifically said to start with you should adopt a system that you want to be your main style and then once that’s implemented then you start mixing it up and making the small changes. Not the other way round.

You’re giving Liverpool as an example. Under Klopp they have literally done exactly as I suggested.
He came in, made them play his way, shipped out anyone who couldn’t work in it. Signed players who could and once they’d mastered it he began adapting the system to deal with the different challenges and they went on and won the league and European Cup. Klopp wasn’t chopping and changing formation and style in his first few years at Liverpool.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are just remembering history wrong. Have a look at Liverpool's first season under Klopp and their most-used formation:
https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Archive/England-Liverpool?stageId=12496
For those who don't want to follow the link, here it is:


And Liverpool last season: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Archive/England-Liverpool?stageId=17590



He, like every manager inheriting a new squad, adapts his system to the players he has at his disposal, as well as the opposition they're playing.

And to show you that it's not only Klopp who did change formations and tactics, here's Pep first season at City: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/167/Archive/England-Manchester-City?stageId=13796


And here is City last season: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/167/Archive/England-Manchester-City?stageId=17590



As for Maguire and Wan Bissaka fitting the plan. I think this is open to interpretation. You can point to Maguire being comfortable on the ball I can point to him being slow and not an ideal defender for a high pressing system which is how it initially looked like Ole wanted to play.
I don't know if Ole wanted to implement those mid-field pressing traps from the beginning or he'd prefer attacking press. I don't see how Maguire is stopping either though. It is the fact that our players will burn out that caused the change in approach, not the pace of the defenders. Please list the goals we've conceded due to lack of pace since we signed Maguire.

Ole has had four transfer windows and he’s not signed a right winger (does diallo count?) meaning he expects our attacks on the right to come from Wan Bissaka, either that or he doesn’t think attacking down the right is important. Wan Bissaka isn’t particularly good at taking up positions and attacking space the way an attacking wing back should. So that’s my interpretation of it. I could think of about twenty more suitable players for the style it initially looked like Ole wanted.
If we are to believe the media, Ole wanted Sancho. He was not attainable. Should he buy ANYONE just for the sake of having a right winger? I, personally, do not want us to buy players just to increase the body count or to have a certain position covered with someone who is not our prime target. And while we do not have that right winger, he is adapting our tactics.
 
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city-puma

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are just remembering history wrong. Have a look at Liverpool's first season under Klopp and their most-used formation:
https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Archive/England-Liverpool?stageId=12496
For those who don't want to follow the link, here it is:


And Liverpool last season: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/26/Archive/England-Liverpool?stageId=17590



He, like every manager inheriting a new squad, adapts his system to the players he has at his disposal, as well as the opposition they're playing.

And to show you that it's not only Klopp who did change formations and tactics, here's Pep first season at City: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/167/Archive/England-Manchester-City?stageId=13796


And here is City last season: https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/167/Archive/England-Manchester-City?stageId=17590




I don't know if Ole wanted to implement those mid-field pressing traps from the beginning or he'd prefer attacking press. I don't see how Maguire is stopping either though. It is the fact that our players will burn out that caused the change in approach, not the pace of the defenders. Please list the goals we've conceded due to lack of pace since we signed Maguire.


If we are to believe the media, Ole wanted Sancho. He was not attainable. Should he buy ANYONE just for the sake of having a right winger? I, personally, do not want us to buy players just to increase the body count or to have a certain position covered with someone who is not our prime target. And while we do not have that right winger, he is adapting our tactics.
Spot on!
It can be seen that quite often people tend to over-emphasize on the already great, and understate and/or forget the process from the mediocre to the great.