Liverpool 0:0 Manchester United

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

Giggsy13 said:
Grealish is not what we need though. What we require in the short term is a more attack minded RB to compete with AWB, a CB and an established right sided attacker. We lack width and forced to play Rashford out of position on the right where he is not as effective.

What we need is a RW to release AWB in offensive play. Do you remember the several forward runs AWB did in the second half? One of it led to Pogba’s shot which is one of two best chances we had.

Jericholyte2 · Jan 17, 2021

Giggsy13 said:
Mata would’ve been absolutely destroyed by the liverpool press. He has his place in the squad and it is not in games like this one anymore.

What press? By 75-80 minutes in there was no real pressing going on, not to any considerable degree.

But then even it it was, why not bring on Greenwood early and VDB at all? VDB has shown he’s good in tight spaces against a pressing team in a deeper role, to take Bruno off, move Pogba to no. 10, play Greenwood on the right and have VDB swap with Fred or McT.

You genuinely think that team would have had no positive impact on the game at all? Ole was terrified that by breaking the Fred/McT pivot we might have lost, well I’m sorry but that’s a risk as the Man Utd you have to take because these games (like City in the cup and the semi-finals we flunked last year) are the ones we have to win to impact on a season.

Until he embraces that we will keep falling at this hurdle and will not press to where we want to be.

Harry190 · Jan 17, 2021

buckooo1978 said:
2 big issues today for me....overall not bad though

1. Mentality

Like the game against City and many of the other semi finals/crucial games we've played we seem to give a poor account of ourselves for long periods. We should have been matching Liverpool given their form and injuries but instead in the first half we looked nervy, lacking leadership and couldn't pass the ball. Just think this is something a championship winning team needs to develop and we need it fast. We were better second half but still we should have been tearing into Liverpool

2. The impact of no RW and CDM

No dedicated RW and CDM persuades Ole to tinker with the lineup and it really didn't seem to suit Martial, Rashford or Pogba.

Pogba and Martial played very wide and I thought it was a real mistake not to have Rasford left. If we had a good all round passing CDM who did the job of McFred then you can probably gamble a bit more. Just felt today there was a Sancho sized hole on the right that would have been a terrific outlet and let Rashford play left with Martial though thr middle. A player like Ndidi would allow you to play Fernandes and Pogba I think too. McFred haven't been good for a few games now either.

We looked nervy?
No.

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

dogwithabone said:
Completely agree. The major difference to me, for the best part of this season, is that we aren't hanging on in games, De Gea isn’t constantly our saviour. The maturity today was impressive, we managed the game brilliantly. Even the first half hour when they had much more of the ball we kept them at a safe distance.

Exactly! The only moment we looked like hanging there I can remember is the last few minutes against Shieffield when they threw every body front by going long ball and corners.

Tom Cato · Jan 17, 2021

I've rewatched most of the game and... I cant for the life of me understand how Pogba misses that chance. Just absolutely mental that he doesnt put us up 1-0.

A bit unrelated, but no IG update from Bruno yet. He's always pretty quick with posting something after a game so I'm guessing he's absolutely beside himself. Got to love the passion.

buckooo1978 · Jan 17, 2021

Harry190 said:
We looked nervy?
No.

first half .... most definitely

passing and ball retention was very poor I felt. Lots of offsides. All evidence of a lack of composure.

Hammondo · Jan 17, 2021

Berbasbullet said:
Is Fabinho not blocking him? Not sure he’d win the race either.

It happens! Going alone is a reasonable decision, the best ball was the one after towards Pogba to play cavani in anyway.

100 percent was selfish. There is no good reason to go alone there.

Lentwood · Jan 17, 2021

The posters criticising Ole or the team after that seriously just need to piss off and go and clog up some other forum somewhere. You’ve got just about as much chance having a decent conversation about United on the clubs official Facebook posts as you have on here now.

I’ve sat through years and years of tumescent dross at Anfield, not least so under SAF. We’re never going to go there and dominate the game, it just doesn’t happen.

To have posters come on here and whinge when we just arguably outplayed (if the objective of a football match is to create goals/chances to score goals) the best Liverpool side in my living history at their own ground, after 6/7 years of humiliation and garbage is just beyond laughable.

Crackers · Jan 17, 2021

Berbasbullet said:
Is Fabinho not blocking him? Not sure he’d win the race either.

It happens! Going alone is a reasonable decision, the best ball was the one after towards Pogba to play cavani in anyway.

Yes, but it's about making the right decision in the situation, and that wasn't it. Rashford's decision making hasn't improved much since he exploded onto the scene, and we're paying the price of his success.

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

buckooo1978 said:
2 big issues today for me....overall not bad though

1. Mentality

Like the game against City and many of the other semi finals/crucial games we've played we seem to give a poor account of ourselves for long periods. We should have been matching Liverpool given their form and injuries but instead in the first half we looked nervy, lacking leadership and couldn't pass the ball. Just think this is something a championship winning team needs to develop and we need it fast. We were better second half but still we should have been tearing into Liverpool

2. The impact of no RW and CDM

No dedicated RW and CDM persuades Ole to tinker with the lineup and it really didn't seem to suit Martial, Rashford or Pogba.

Pogba and Martial played very wide and I thought it was a real mistake not to have Rasford left. If we had a good all round passing CDM who did the job of McFred then you can probably gamble a bit more. Just felt today there was a Sancho sized hole on the right that would have been a terrific outlet and let Rashford play left with Martial though thr middle. A player like Ndidi would allow you to play Fernandes and Pogba I think too. McFred haven't been good for a few games now either.

I don’t know the statistics of the game. It feels like Liverpool played at least 50% attack through long ball to find the front three in behind. We had to keep the defense line. The first half, we just lack composure to to pass quickly with quality but it’s also due to the facts pool has 7 players in our half to chase every second ball. They won a lot of them.
Overall it’s a chaotic game with both sides neutralized each other. It’s the how most of the big games eventually playing out. Just lacks a little bit of luck.

Tom Cato · Jan 17, 2021

16 games unbeaten in the league away now. Longest unbeaten run since Ole was a player per the post match interview. Got to love the consistency

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

Lentwood said:
The posters criticising Ole or the team after that seriously just need to piss off and go and clog up some other forum somewhere. You’ve got just about as much chance having a decent conversation about United on the clubs official Facebook posts as you have on here now.

I’ve sat through years and years of tumescent dross at Anfield, not least so under SAF. We’re never going to go there and dominate the game, it just doesn’t happen.

To have posters come on here and whinge when we just arguably outplayed (if the objective of a football match is to create goals/chances to score goals) the best Liverpool side in my living history at their own ground, after 6/7 years of humiliation and garbage is just beyond laughable.

With you in this!

croadyman · Jan 17, 2021

So frustrating that Pogba chance didn't fall to Cavani, don't think it was a guilt edged as Keano made out post match but needed to hit it anywhere but straight at Alisson

tjb · Jan 17, 2021

city-puma said:
TBF, can we stop this kind of blaming nonsense?
Liverpool is not a lesser team. Today’s game apparently both teams neutralized each other in the mid third. The fact that we grew into the second half and got the better chance to win already tells how we played.

What nonsense? People always blame our defence or our attackers after these games. Liverpool could ply on the ball, while we couldn't because of our midfield. I'm happy that we've improved despite that deficiency, but acting like its inexistant wouldnt help us get back where we were or even be better in other big games. It's the reason we lost to city, psg and liepzig. Yet our fans always point blame to people (manager, attack, defence) who arent the cause of the problem.

MZX7 · Jan 17, 2021

Grande said:
Given that we had two major chances, and at least eight attacks that was a good final
pass/onside yard from being a one-on-one or the like, I don’t think I’d call it lucky. Could have tipped both ways, one half each .

Yea. Agreed. We had the better chances. If not for Allison! Ugh

UnitedAkhi · Jan 17, 2021

A couple of missed chances away from a completely different outlook.

I wish Ole would bring VDB on in these games, he would allow us to progress the ball in the midfield and improve our ball retention.

City are looking good but in this weird season we must make a fight of it. Be brave Ole, No regrets.

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

Tom Cato said:
I've rewatched most of the game and... I cant for the life of me understand how Pogba misses that chance. Just absolutely mental that he doesnt put us up 1-0.

A bit unrelated, but no IG update from Bruno yet. He's always pretty quick with posting something after a game so I'm guessing he's absolutely beside himself. Got to love the passion.

Because pogba as good as he is really isn’t a true attacking talent in front of goal. Yesterday Leicester had a similar by more difficult situation (really acute angle) but Madison intentionally shot to roof. That’s the only possibility.

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

tjb said:
What nonsense? People always blame our defence or our attackers after these games. Liverpool could ply on the ball, while we couldn't because of our midfield. I'm happy that we've improved despite that deficiency, but acting like its inexistant wouldnt help us get back where we were or even be better in other big games. It's the reason we lost to city, psg and liepzig. Yet our fans always point blame to people (manager, attack, defence) who arent the cause of the problem.

The nonsense you pick out McFred to blame rather than the unbalanced midfield setup.

Sandikan · Jan 17, 2021

Majima said:
Did we really match them? I seriously doubt they are scared of us after that match. We played like we're their b*tches truthfully.

Ask yourself who had the big 3 chances of the game.
Sure as heck wasn't them was it?

Waynne · Jan 17, 2021

justsomebloke said:
Sorry, but you're wrong. Rashford didn't pass because he couldn't. There is no point there where he had a clear lane to Cavani. Because Fabinho took it away. Masterful defending.

The pass to Cavani was the obvious choice to make in that situation so Fabinho was trying to cut that out but what Rashford didn't realise is that Fabinho is also pre-occupied with his run while trying to cover the pass to Cavani.
Cavani is also going full tilt at this point and has clear sight on goal.
Rashford made the wrong decision to try an go between the 2 defenders. One pass to the left of Fabinho and Cavani cuts across him so one of two things happen:
- Fabinho trips Cavani inside the box as Cavani cuts across (penalty and possible red card) OR,
- Fabinho allows Cavani to cross him to his left and has chance 1 on 1 vs the goalkeeper.

Both above situations favour us.

Sandikan · Jan 17, 2021

Tom Cato said:
I've rewatched most of the game and... I cant for the life of me understand how Pogba misses that chance. Just absolutely mental that he doesnt put us up 1-0.

A bit unrelated, but no IG update from Bruno yet. He's always pretty quick with posting something after a game so I'm guessing he's absolutely beside himself. Got to love the passion.

He's made it into a great chance by taking such a supreme first touch.
But he doesn't have very much time to shoot, and you can see Fabinho is covering the far side of the goal

So it's literally a narrow space to aim for, and unfortunately right at the keeper, who they annoyingly praised as being brilliant when in reality it just hit him and he didn't have anything special to do.

tjb · Jan 17, 2021

city-puma said:
The nonsense you pick out McFred to blame rather than the unbalanced midfield setup.

We had the same midfield set up as liverpool today. McFred not being able to make any forward pass, constantly passing back to he defence or de gea to push the ball forward and constantly being shaken off by wijnaldum and thiago, yet never shaking them off is the reason we didn't control the game. unbalanced midfield is simply masking the fact that their both substandard

Dr. Dwayne · Jan 17, 2021

Waynne said:
The pass to Cavani was the obvious choice to make in that situation so Fabinho was trying to cut that out but what Rashford didn't realise is that Fabinho is also pre-occupied with his run while trying to cover the pass to Cavani.
Cavani is also going full tilt at this point and has clear sight on goal.
Rashford made the wrong decision to try an go between the 2 defenders. One pass to the left of Fabinho and Cavani cuts across him so one of two things happen:
- Fabinho trips Cavani inside the box as Cavani cuts across (penalty and possible red card) OR,
- Fabinho allows Cavani to cross him to his left and has chance 1 on 1 vs the goalkeeper.

Both above situations favour us.

Fabinho intercepts that ball, every time.

Sandikan · Jan 17, 2021

justsomebloke said:
Sorry, but you're wrong. Rashford didn't pass because he couldn't. There is no point there where he had a clear lane to Cavani. Because Fabinho took it away. Masterful defending.

Didn't have a "clear lane" to Cavani? What are you on about.
Literally any other premier league striker who has played for even a season would have played that pass.

Even Carragher was crapping himself at the break.

To come away without even getting a shot on target was more frustrating then the later chances.

Sandikan · Jan 17, 2021

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Fabinho intercepts that ball, every time.

Not if Rashford releases it at the point he should.

Crackers · Jan 17, 2021

Sandikan said:
Not if Rashford releases it at the point he should.

Or if Rashford moves left rather than inside to the right

Hugh Jass · Jan 17, 2021

Lentwood said:
The posters criticising Ole or the team after that seriously just need to piss off and go and clog up some other forum somewhere. You’ve got just about as much chance having a decent conversation about United on the clubs official Facebook posts as you have on here now.

I’ve sat through years and years of tumescent dross at Anfield, not least so under SAF. We’re never going to go there and dominate the game, it just doesn’t happen.

To have posters come on here and whinge when we just arguably outplayed (if the objective of a football match is to create goals/chances to score goals) the best Liverpool side in my living history at their own ground, after 6/7 years of humiliation and garbage is just beyond laughable.

Agreed.

Thiagoal · Jan 17, 2021

Wow! The comments in this thread are crazy! We played a team that haven’t lost a home game for years yet people are critical of our set up! Do you guys really think we’d have won if we’d been open and expansive? Ollie played it perfectly today and in the second half had more than enough chances to win!

Matt851 · Jan 17, 2021

tjb said:
Bruno plays in a role where he is high up the pitch. He roams across the midfield and play in between the lines. Bruno wasn't awful, he just didn't have the time and space to operate, in addition to not being as accurate as usual. But the fact remains, the players supposed to make those passes forward, Mctominay and Fred or win back possession, were only capable of positioning themselves in front of the ball, a trend we have seen in every big game. People put it as Ole simply choosing to play defensively, it's not that, it's us having midfielders who do not have the capacity to actually do their job outside of harrying and putting their body in front of the defence. Liverpool had 18 shots, we had 7 with 66 percent of possession. That isn't the fault of Rashford or Bruno, that is on Mctominay and Fred. The issue we have is that they are expected to perform like this and are therefore given a pass for it

I get where bruno plays but he was clearly terrible. The service to him wasnt very good but he also killed a number of our attacks with very sloppy passing. He was also too far ahead of the rest of midfield in the first half to help us get a foothold in the game. The worrying thing is this has happened numerous times in the 'big' games

I would like to see vdb start more in the double pivot going forward because we need a different option to mcfred. We have only mabaged to score once against big 6 clubs this season and think their limitations are partly to blame for this

croadyman · Jan 17, 2021

MZX7 said:
Yea. Agreed. We had the better chances. If not for Allison! Ugh

Yeah there is a definite sense of annoyance we just weren't competent enough on the ball and confident enough in front of goal to end their run. Get the impression that the scousers unbelievable home record dawned on Pogba when he hit that shot and meant he wasn't clinical.

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

tjb said:
We had the same midfield set up as liverpool today. McFred not being able to make any forward pass, constantly passing back to he defence or de gea to push the ball forward and constantly being shaken off by wijnaldum and thiago, yet never shaking them off is the reason we didn't control the game. unbalanced midfield is simply masking the fact that their both substandard

Pool has three midfielders and three midfielder-like front three joined with Roberson. So, totally 7. Our unbalanced midfield is due to Pogba’s position. He did very well and I don’t have any negative on him today at all. But the reality is that we don’t have good RW to make the counter attack possible because in the overcrowded midfield, we lack of options to string a series of passes to construct a counter. Still, Fred found a chance to carry ball forward to break the line but just miss a little for Rashford to get on the cross. Some People keep saying McFred cannot make forward pass. This is completely nonsense. You can say they are worse than Carrick. It’s a reasonable evaluation. But to say they cannot make forward pass and they don’t make forward pass is completely nonsense. To make the forward pass, at least you must have someone in front in good position. Just think about it. How can it be a single player’s issue in this game?

theklr · Jan 17, 2021

1st half was like our 4 last games against them, 2nd half we played them on equal footing and coulda won. Thats progress for me.

Race is getting really really tight now, and we’ll be back to chasing City now very soon, so that’ll suit us.

Yes, Bruno and Rashford was bad today, but they are mostly excellent and most of our output , so cant really blame them for having an off game. Martial really need to find his form soon if we’re to stay in the race.

croadyman · Jan 17, 2021

city-puma said:
Pool has three midfielders and three midfielder-like front three joined with Roberson. So, totally 7. Our unbalanced midfield is due to Pogba’s position. He did very well and I don’t have any negative on him today at all. But the reality is that we don’t have good RW to make the counter attack possible because in the overcrowded midfield, we lack of options to string a series of passes to construct a counter. Still, Fred found a chance to carry ball forward to break the line but just miss a little for Rashford to get on the cross. Some People keep saying McFred cannot make forward pass. This is completely nonsense. You can say they are worse than Carrick. It’s a reasonable evaluation. But to say they cannot make forward pass and they don’t make forward pass is completely nonsense. To make the forward pass, at least you must have someone in front in good position. Just think about it. How can it be a single player’s issue in this game?

Just maybe Amad will grab his opportunity with both hands when it comes along and make that RW spot his own, we might also see Pellestri get some minutes and they could both rotate on that side but know I sound too optimistic.

Majima · Jan 17, 2021

Sandikan said:
Ask yourself who had the big 3 chances of the game.
Sure as heck wasn't them was it?

You misunderstand the point of my message I think. Even being so, that doesn't mean we played well does it?

I don't think Liverpool played particularly well either. But this was a Liverpool team at their lowest point, and if we weren't capable of hurting them, then what chance have we got when they get their form and players back?

After all that about them missing Matip, no VVD, we didn't even trouble Henderson once did we? My frustration stems from the fact that it could have been so much more for us if only we weren't so preoccupied with them, and focused on getting our best players the support they needed instead.

croadyman · Jan 17, 2021

theklr said:
1st half was like our 4 last games against them, 2nd half we played them on equal footing and coulda won. Thats progress for me.

Race is getting really really tight now, and we’ll be back to chasing City now very soon, so that’ll suit us.

Yes, Bruno and Rashford was bad today, but they are mostly excellent and most of our output , so cant really blame them for having an off game. Martial really need to find his form soon if we’re to stay in the race.

Yeah expect them to take top spot in a few days time but would love nothing more than Villa to somehow find a performance

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

theklr said:
1st half was like our 4 last games against them, 2nd half we played them on equal footing and coulda won. Thats progress for me.

Race is getting really really tight now, and we’ll be back to chasing City now very soon, so that’ll suit us.

Yes, Bruno and Rashford was bad today, but they are mostly excellent and most of our output , so cant really blame them for having an off game. Martial really need to find his form soon if we’re to stay in the race.

Exactly. We are underdog. I hope we can carry on the underdog mentality to go nuke war to the rest of games. The way we went through this game has me feel our title challenge is more possible than prior to the game.

Wing Attack Plan R · Jan 17, 2021

Feed Me said:
It was good when Greenwood came on in the 87th minute.

Yeah, Ole loves leaving the subs until late/forgetting about them. Why'd we only make 2 subs, when Fred was clearly having a 'mare?

space · Jan 17, 2021

Great result against a very good team. These lot won the league by a mile and the UCL - we looked so far away before. Now look at us, we deserved to win it by the end.

Our plan was pretty obvious and we grew as the game went on, probably the biggest game for a lot of our boys. Last huge game we ended up losing to RBL, this time thought it was a lot more composed.

tjb · Jan 17, 2021

city-puma said:
Pool has three midfielders and three midfielder-like front three joined with Roberson. So, totally 7. Our unbalanced midfield is due to Pogba’s position. He did very well and I don’t have any negative on him today at all. But the reality is that we don’t have good RW to make the counter attack possible because in the overcrowded midfield, we lack of options to string a series of passes to construct a counter. Still, Fred found a chance to carry ball forward to break the line but just miss a little for Rashford to get on the cross. Some People keep saying McFred cannot make forward pass. This is completely nonsense. You can say they are worse than Carrick. It’s a reasonable evaluation. But to say they cannot make forward pass and they don’t make forward pass is completely nonsense. To make the forward pass, at least you must have someone in front in good position. Just think about it. How can it be a single player’s issue in this game?

Pogba playing on the right flank was not the reason why fred and mctominay consistently lost the ball and were scared of making a proper pass. They are also the reason we struggle to play out from the back as they don't have the off ball movement or quick feet to evade pressure, and therefore depend on maguire's decent passing or a long ball from de gea. Playing 433 woudn't have changed anything given both players being unable to handle pressure. It's a consistent theme. Blame rashford all you want, but he has to create service from himself unless bruno comes deep to make that pass. You can blame the set up all you want, but their inability to do the basics under any pressure consistently expose the team. One player coming in can change a lot of things, look at bruno. "Don't blame pereira because the set up is bad". Working hard doesn't make you class, what i saw today and have consistently seen is that we have a class team with a midtable midfield.

city-puma · Jan 17, 2021

croadyman said:
Just maybe Amad will grab his opportunity with both hands when it comes along and make that RW spot his own, we might also see Pellestri get some minutes and they could both rotate on that side but know I sound too optimistic.

Amad definitely needs some work to learn the defensive part of adult football. I am not sure he will become the answer to our RW issue so soon. However, consider his technique, pace, and football intelligence shown in those internet videos, I have high expectations on Ole to find a way and a system to have him play to his potential, not necessarily a traditional wing player. Note that Ole is actually pretty good and creative to find some new way to play.

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Liverpool 0:0 Manchester United

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