Paul Pogba

Jam · Jan 24, 2021

Berbasbullet said:
Agreed! I’m not convinced he’s going to be honest, I honestly think Pogba is super competitive and he smells a chance at winning trophies with United.

If he was super competitive he wouldn’t go missing when times are tough or we aren’t performing. Even if he wasn’t playing well he would still go out and die on that pitch.

That isn’t true of Pogba. He’s a fairweather player, when things are going well he’ll kick into top gear. He’s not the man you look to when you’re struggling or on a tough situation. If things aren’t going his or the teams way he’s totally liable to become the invisible man.

Him and Bruno have very different personalities in that regard. Bruno seems a bit more grounded and “family orientated” too whereas Pogba has that “celebrity” aura.

Regardless, Pogba has arguably been our best player this month and it’s been great to see him at the top of his game again and I’m hoping he carries this forward the rest of the campaign.

A fit and performing Pogba at the top of his game is still probably the best player at the club. As rare as that is.

sillwuka · Jan 24, 2021

Ole just has to find a place for him in the starting 11. Playing like this, him and Bruno could bring home the title.

bosnian_red · Jan 24, 2021

Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Another great performance. Do you think his recent motivated displays are to put himself in the shop window for a big move?

Nope. I think he smells and realizes that we are developing as a side and have a shot at success, bringing a better level and more motivation out of him. Whatever works!

Mr Smith · Jan 24, 2021

Lee565 said:
Man this is the pogba over the past month or two that I've been expecting when we signed him, brilliant display today.

The thing is, he has shown performances like this before. People have short memories. He played as good, if not better than he's playing now, during the following periods:
- When he first signed in 2016
- During the first three months of 2017-18 under Jose when we were top of the league
- During the first two months of Ole's tenure.

It's a myth he's never been this good for us before. He has on plenty of occasions. The issue has always been that he's never sustained this quality for a full season, or even a full half of a season. It's not always been his fault; tactical issues, conflict with managers, and players around him performing poorly have all played a part. But if you look at all the above three periods, one thing is in common; they were periods when our tail was up. As others have said, Pogba has a tendency to be a fairweather player. When we're in a good moment, he's usually brilliant. When we're in a bad moment, he can dip with the rest of the team.

Having said all that, I am cautiously optimistic that the genuine possibility of winning the league this season has given him renewed focus. But only time will tell if he can sustain it.

Isotope · Jan 24, 2021

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As far as reading from Ole's quotes over the years, he really likes Pogba. I mean, who wouldn't? A functional Pogba and Bruno could take this team back among the best in the world. I think those two are the only genuine world class players at United. Others are just potential or solid.

VanGaalEra · Jan 24, 2021

Has he always won so many headers as he’s been winning these last couple of months?

MattofManchester · Jan 25, 2021

The only thing I noticed today is that he tended to hold on to the ball too long again and lost it a few times.

Hadn't seen this in the last couple of games, so I wonder if this is to do with not having a Fred and Bruno in the team.

McTominay was terribly clumsy on the ball today, and the link up with VDB died pretty quickly.

DanClancy · Jan 25, 2021

Another fantastic performance from the fraud, shame we've seen very little of his workrate during the previous 4 years.

He's a disgrace.

Godfather · Jan 25, 2021

DanClancy said:
Another fantastic performance from the fraud, shame we've seen very little of his workrate during the previous 4 years.

He's a disgrace.

That's simply not true but your posts in this thread are rather strange anyway. You seem to have an obsessive dislike for him.

TrustInJanuzaj · Jan 25, 2021

DanClancy said:
Another fantastic performance from the fraud, shame we've seen very little of his workrate during the previous 4 years.

He's a disgrace.

What a strange post.

DanClancy · Jan 25, 2021

I've seen a one of the most talented players in the world for the last 4 years go through the motions, there's been periods where he's look great going forward but his work rate hasn't been good enough and time and time again he's ignored runner in behind him.

I think its fair to ask the question why we've not seen the Pogba we've seen the last 6 weeks in the previous 4 years, anyone with an ounce of sense knows this is a different Pogba. I think its perfectly fair to question a player who's on £300,000 a week, he's took the piss out of the club and will continue to do so.

elmo · Jan 25, 2021

Bar one or two games, he's been great ever since his count of an agent spoke up.

Member 90887 · Jan 25, 2021

I wouldn't mind this Pogba to renew, however, based on what we saw the last few years, there is a good chance he'll go hiding if he renews.

One can hope. A (this month's) Pogba - Bruno midfield is one of the best in the world.

And obviously, a renewal has to come with sacking his despicable agent.

Adam-Utd · Jan 25, 2021

DanClancy said:
Another fantastic performance from the fraud, shame we've seen very little of his workrate during the previous 4 years.

He's a disgrace.

Get over it Dan, seriously. He hasn't been anywhere near as bad as you make out over his 4 years here.

Conor · Jan 25, 2021

Mr Smith said:
The thing is, he has shown performances like this before. People have short memories. He played as good, if not better than he's playing now, during the following periods:
- When he first signed in 2016
- During the first three months of 2017-18 under Jose when we were top of the league
- During the first two months of Ole's tenure.

It's a myth he's never been this good for us before. He has on plenty of occasions. The issue has always been that he's never sustained this quality for a full season, or even a full half of a season. It's not always been his fault; tactical issues, conflict with managers, and players around him performing poorly have all played a part. But if you look at all the above three periods, one thing is in common; they were periods when our tail was up. As others have said, Pogba has a tendency to be a fairweather player. When we're in a good moment, he's usually brilliant. When we're in a bad moment, he can dip with the rest of the team.

Having said all that, I am cautiously optimistic that the genuine possibility of winning the league this season has given him renewed focus. But only time will tell if he can sustain it.

He 100% hasn't played with this level of work rate and defensive diligence in those mentioned periods. He may have been playing really well from an attacking perspective, but not in the same way as he is playing now.

AltiUn · Jan 25, 2021

Makes a fecking world of difference having Fernandes and Pogba capable of providing creativity from midfield. Just to think at times last season we had to have McTominay, Fred and Pereira/Lingard which seems so barren in comparison. I do think McTominay and Fred are situationally a good combination, having them as our starting double pivot over the course of the season really had a negative impact on our attacking game.

Jonno · Jan 25, 2021

AltiUn said:
Makes a fecking world of difference having Fernandes and Pogba capable of providing creativity from midfield. Just to think at times last season we had to have McTominay, Fred and Pereira/Lingard which seems so barren in comparison. I do think McTominay and Fred are situationally a good combination, having them as our starting double pivot over the course of the season really had a negative impact on our attacking game.

Agree, good points. I do see Ole trying to evolve/move away from starting both more and more which is good to see. Like removing the stabilisers as confidence grows.

Jonno · Jan 25, 2021

Ole's handling of Pogba has been nothing short of sensational.

All of a sudden, our team has match winners all over the park, exactly what you need in a title race.

lost7 · Jan 25, 2021

Bruno is a massive game changer for Pogba. Now that he isn't the one expected to create something every game, he's focusing more on keeping things simple and puts a shift defensively. And when we're still struggling to break down a defense, he's often allowed to push forward more in the second half.

This is basically his role with France. Play from deep, transition the ball through the lines to Bruno/Griezmann or use long through balls to Rashy/Mbappe. It has worked really effectively so far, let's hope it continues

Lee565 · Jan 25, 2021

Mr Smith said:
The thing is, he has shown performances like this before. People have short memories. He played as good, if not better than he's playing now, during the following periods:
- When he first signed in 2016
- During the first three months of 2017-18 under Jose when we were top of the league
- During the first two months of Ole's tenure.

It's a myth he's never been this good for us before. He has on plenty of occasions. The issue has always been that he's never sustained this quality for a full season, or even a full half of a season. It's not always been his fault; tactical issues, conflict with managers, and players around him performing poorly have all played a part. But if you look at all the above three periods, one thing is in common; they were periods when our tail was up. As others have said, Pogba has a tendency to be a fairweather player. When we're in a good moment, he's usually brilliant. When we're in a bad moment, he can dip with the rest of the team.

Having said all that, I am cautiously optimistic that the genuine possibility of winning the league this season has given him renewed focus. But only time will tell if he can sustain it.

I agree but the difference is this time round pogba is the driving force behind our victories, he's rolling his sleeves and taking the initiative, in the past pogba put in good spells of flashy performances when the team in general were performing well where as he is now taking games by the scruff of the neck and not being afraid to get combative against the opposition, this may bot be a very popular comparison but it's very gerrard like of late.

mancan92 · Jan 25, 2021

Conor said:
He 100% hasn't played with this level of work rate and defensive diligence in those mentioned periods. He may have been playing really well from an attacking perspective, but not in the same way as he is playing now.

He 100% did. Just never had the players around him. Especially since during those periods he was asked to be great defensively and basically our only creative outlet. You have to remember the roles he was expected to have previously was ridiculous. Now he just needs to perform in one area of the pitch rather than 2

mancan92 · Jan 25, 2021

Lee565 said:
I agree but the difference is this time round pogba is the driving force behind our victories, he's rolling his sleeves and taking the initiative, in the past pogba put in good spells of flashy performances when the team in general were performing well where as he is now taking games by the scruff of the neck and not being afraid to get combative against the opposition, this may bot be a very popular comparison but it's very gerrard like of late.

Thats because he has Bruno and a much older Rashford so he doesn't have the entire load on his back

Poborsky's hair · Jan 25, 2021

If you look at the situations Pogba loses the ball in, he´s usually taking difficult positions to help out team mates with pressure. Just passing it around won´t cut it sometimes, you need a player to be more courages with the ball and he provides that. Surely sometimes he can pass it back earlier and we can build form the back again but on many occassions he can create a good opening or at least keep the ball under pressure. He´s told to be less careless too and it´s good to see him recycle the ball at times rather than tryin to do the difficult.

Just hoped people wouldn´t blame him or other players for losing the ball trying to evade pressure/create chances. It´s not the end of the world and we can often win the ball back immediately.

I love pogba in full fitness, he s got energy for his defensive game as well and hope it stays this way. He´s a unique player we should enjoy watching. Maybe he ahad some bad spells of form but like someone meniton when he first came here he carried us, with much worse players too. Most often than not he was the only playerfrom who something came from. Right now he´s not alone and it´s good to see him enjoying a more team role than before. When you look at some of the bad spells of Rashford or Martial, they certainly had as many bad games as Pogba, they are just more inconsistent game to game. also occasional goal/assistcan save them from criticism. Same with Bruno who is a great player but him being on penalties/corners/freekicks gives him some insane stats which saves his picture too.. but he also plays more advanced position so people remember the key moments leading to goal.

Pogba is a CM and we should enjoy his unque skillset to contribute from the deep too.

Conor · Jan 25, 2021

mancan92 said:
He 100% did. Just never had the players around him. Especially since during those periods he was asked to be great defensively and basically our only creative outlet. You have to remember the roles he was expected to have previously was ridiculous. Now he just needs to perform in one area of the pitch rather than 2

I don't agree, he has been somewhat of a defensive liability for most of his time here, but that's only my personal opinion.

Rolaholic · Jan 25, 2021

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mancan92 · Jan 25, 2021

Conor said:
I don't agree, he has been somewhat of a defensive liability for most of his time here, but that's only my personal opinion.

Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing some things are just facts. These numbers are on whoscored

2020-21 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.9 per game
2016-17 Tackles 1.8 interception 1 per game
2017-18 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.8 per game
2018/19 played as number 10 so numbers are obviously lower 1.2 Tackles 0.5 Interceptions

As you can see there is very little difference defensive work infact there is no difference. Only difference is he doesn't have to do as much work on the attacking front.

The Original · Jan 25, 2021

mancan92 said:
Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing some things are just facts. These numbers are on whoscored

2020-21 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.9 per game
2016-17 Tackles 1.8 interception 1 per game
2017-18 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.8 per game
2018/19 played as number 10 so numbers are obviously lower 1.2 Tackles 0.5 Interceptions

As you can see there is very little difference defensive work infact there is no difference. Only difference is he doesn't have to do as much work on the attacking front.

If anything, the stats show he was putting in his best defensive work in 2016/17. So he certainly isn't working harder now.

Adam-Utd · Jan 25, 2021

mancan92 said:
Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing some things are just facts. These numbers are on whoscored

2020-21 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.9 per game
2016-17 Tackles 1.8 interception 1 per game
2017-18 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.8 per game
2018/19 played as number 10 so numbers are obviously lower 1.2 Tackles 0.5 Interceptions

As you can see there is very little difference defensive work infact there is no difference. Only difference is he doesn't have to do as much work on the attacking front.

Thank you!

People saying Pogba never tried before are just being very short term in their memory.

The issue is everybody expected Pogba to do all the hard work and then win the game by himself, now he's got Fernandes and a functioning attack to help.

I would say he's got better at defending over his time with us, but it's certainly no more "effort". People are just seeing the real Pogba now after a very difficult 18 month period.

Conor · Jan 25, 2021

mancan92 said:
Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing some things are just facts. These numbers are on whoscored

2020-21 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.9 per game
2016-17 Tackles 1.8 interception 1 per game
2017-18 Tackles 1.4 interception 0.8 per game
2018/19 played as number 10 so numbers are obviously lower 1.2 Tackles 0.5 Interceptions

As you can see there is very little difference defensive work infact there is no difference. Only difference is he doesn't have to do as much work on the attacking front.

You can't just use specific stats to assess defensive performance, they don't carry the same weight as something like goals or assists do when assessing forwards.

mancan92 · Jan 25, 2021

Conor said:
You can't just use specific stats to assess defensive performance, they don't carry the same weight as something like goals or assists do when assessing forwards.

It shows he is getting through the same amount of defensive work through actual numbers not just nostalgia. Go watch a match from his first two season. You will not see anything different to now except he was doing way more attacking work as well as doing the defensive work

Jeppers7 · Jan 25, 2021

lost7 said:
Bruno is a massive game changer for Pogba. Now that he isn't the one expected to create something every game, he's focusing more on keeping things simple and puts a shift defensively. And when we're still struggling to break down a defense, he's often allowed to push forward more in the second half.

This is basically his role with France. Play from deep, transition the ball through the lines to Bruno/Griezmann or use long through balls to Rashy/Mbappe. It has worked really effectively so far, let's hope it continues

Totally agree. It was never fair to expect the attacking input from Ole’s caretaker days as well as the all round midfield displays were seeing now. He was excellent in his first season back with Zlatan taking a lot of responsibility, but Pogba got criticised for not doing enough defensively. Our down spiral and subsequent signing of Bruno have realigned peoples expectations to a realistic level and it’s now acceptable for Pogba to focus on his midfield role while Bruno performs his role further forward. Pogba is more than capable of contributing higher up the pitch when needed also as he’s such an all round talent. The problem comes when people expect everything from him, you only have to look at Liverpool as an example. Gerrard and TAA are also all rounders but when they bomb forward you can catch them out going the other way.

Bilbo · Jan 25, 2021

Its not about him doing more than he has done before. Its about him doing enough.

Its been quite obvious that McFred has been our most stable midfield pairing for some time now, but that combination comes with some drawbacks (although these are exaggerated by many of our fans IMO). Our results in the past have clearly demonstrated that having Pogba + 1 in midfield has cost us defensively and our win-rate has suffered because of it. That's always been our catch-22. How do we get him into the team? Every team would like more goals and assists from their midfield but the overall balance of the team is the most important thing, and that balance has been better when we played with McFred.

For any midfielder to displace one of those they had to prove that they could add a little more attacking threat without disrupting those others areas. Matic hasn't done it. He is, for me, a great option in specific matches but not somebody that you would generally pick. Until recently, Pogba hasn't done it either, but he is now, and because he is also doing the ugly things better and being more disciplined with his positioning and ball carrying, he deserves to be in the team and he should stay there until when or if that starts to drop again.

Jeppers7 · Jan 25, 2021

Bilbo said:
Its not about him doing more than he has done before. Its about him doing enough.

Its been quite obvious that McFred has been our most stable midfield pairing for some time now, but that combination comes with some drawbacks (although these are exaggerated by many of our fans IMO). Our results in the past have clearly demonstrated that having Pogba + 1 in midfield has cost us defensively and our win-rate has suffered because of it. That's always been our catch-22. How do we get him into the team? Every team would like more goals and assists from their midfield but the overall balance of the team is the most important thing, and that balance has been better when we played with McFred.

For any midfielder to displace one of those they had to prove that they could add a little more attacking threat without disrupting those others areas. Matic hasn't done it. He is, for me, a great option in specific matches but not somebody that you would generally pick. Until recently, Pogba hasn't done it either, but he is now, and because he is also doing the ugly things better and being more disciplined with his positioning and ball carrying, he deserves to be in the team and he should stay there until when or if that starts to drop again.

It’s probably more the case that Pogba was eased back to fitness after Covid, which clearly had a massive impact on him. Pogba played every week when we came back from lockdown and has played every game pretty much since he returned to fitness.
Do you have stats to back up your claim that we perform better with McFred than with Pogba? From memory the team did well post lockdown and since December.

No manager in their right mind would play McT or Fred over Pogba when he’s fit and on form, as they aren’t great players.

iluvoursolskjær · Jan 25, 2021

I'm not aware of another midfielder in world football that is expected to defend deep positions, transition the ball and make play, get forward and put up assist and goal numbers.

That is what's been asked of him when people say 'he's not the sort of player to carry a team on his back' or he is 'fair weather'. I don't know anyone who wouldn't struggle to remain motivated doing that kind of heavy lifting while playing with some of the dross he's had to play with through recent years.

Now the burden of creativity is shared with Bruno and he believes we can win the title I'm super happy to be seeing the Pogba we all know he is capable of being. Long may it continue and past next summer if possible.

He'sRaldo · Jan 25, 2021

Bilbo said:
Its not about him doing more than he has done before. Its about him doing enough.

Its been quite obvious that McFred has been our most stable midfield pairing for some time now, but that combination comes with some drawbacks (although these are exaggerated by many of our fans IMO). Our results in the past have clearly demonstrated that having Pogba + 1 in midfield has cost us defensively and our win-rate has suffered because of it. That's always been our catch-22. How do we get him into the team? Every team would like more goals and assists from their midfield but the overall balance of the team is the most important thing, and that balance has been better when we played with McFred.

For any midfielder to displace one of those they had to prove that they could add a little more attacking threat without disrupting those others areas. Matic hasn't done it. He is, for me, a great option in specific matches but not somebody that you would generally pick. Until recently, Pogba hasn't done it either, but he is now, and because he is also doing the ugly things better and being more disciplined with his positioning and ball carrying, he deserves to be in the team and he should stay there until when or if that starts to drop again.

McFred was only used because Pogba was clearly struggling with fitness post injury and covid.

Ole has always been comfortable using Pogba in a double pivot even in bigger games.

Bilbo · Jan 25, 2021

Jeppers7 said:
It’s probably more the case that Pogba was eased back to fitness after Covid, which clearly had a massive impact on him. Pogba played every week when we came back from lockdown and has played every game pretty much since he returned to fitness.
Do you have stats to back up your claim that we perform better with McFred than with Pogba? From memory the team did well post lockdown and since December.

No manager in their right mind would play McT or Fred over Pogba when he’s fit and on form, as they aren’t great players.

No I don't have the stats to hand, but there was a fairly extensive analysis posted on here a while back that showed win-rate % of various combinations, and he didn't stack up particularly well.

Its clear the Ole wants him in the team though, and its also clear that he isn't afraid to drop him if he isn't doing what we need him to do and that's exactly how it should be. I don't see any benefit in using past performances to make decisions about him or anyone else. He is doing it right now.

Going forward though I still need convincing that he will keep this performance level up, or that he is going to be here beyond this season, but if he helps us land a title he can go with my blessing, and this type of form will only help us maximise his market value so its all good.

Jeppers7 · Jan 25, 2021

Bilbo said:
No I don't have the stats to hand, but there was a fairly extensive analysis posted on here a while back that showed win-rate % of various combinations, and he didn't stack up particularly well.

Its clear the Ole wants him in the team though, and its also clear that he isn't afraid to drop him if he isn't doing what we need him to do and that's exactly how it should be. I don't see any benefit in using past performances to make decisions about him or anyone else. He is doing it right now.

Going forward though I still need convincing that he will keep this performance level up, or that he is going to be here beyond this season, but if he helps us land a title he can go with my blessing, and this type of form will only help us maximise his market value so its all good.

what period was that analysis over? We had a great run post lockdown, a great run since December. McFred wasn’t really a thing until Pogba got injured last year and we were shocking when Pogba was injured until we signed Bruno, so like six weeks before lockdown.

Sounds iffy to me, like the stats suited a particular narrative. Would be happy to be proved wrong over a reasonable timescale though.

Conor · Jan 25, 2021

mancan92 said:
It shows he is getting through the same amount of defensive work through actual numbers not just nostalgia. Go watch a match from his first two season. You will not see anything different to now except he was doing way more attacking work as well as doing the defensive work

So you maintain that there has been absolutely zero difference in the way he played yesterday, in comparison to how he's played his whole career at Utd, from a defensive standpoint? Be it how he handles the ball in our half, what he does when he clears the ball, the effort he puts in when tracking back? Have you just wiped your mind of all of the instances of him jogging back with opposition players flying past him, or of him rolling the ball around with his foot only to be dispossessed in a dangerous area? We should probably just agree to disagree, if you think there are essentially no negatives to his game, throughout his time at Utd.

Bilbo · Jan 25, 2021

He'sRaldo said:
Mcfred was only used because Pogba was clearly struggling with fitness post injury and covid.

Remember last season vs Chelsea Ole was comfortable using Pogba in a double pivot, and we won 4-0.

That may be the case but I'm not convinced about that personally. I think most people would agree that his work-rate has at times fallen below what is acceptable for a United player. I'm sure I've said myself once or twice that I'd not be unhappy if he left and didn't play for us again because he looked like he was going through the motions. Nobody has ever doubted his talent, but I would disagree strongly with anybody who says that this is the same version of Pogba that we've always seen.

I think what we are seeing now is a combination of many things:

Playing in a winning team, being inspired by the approach of other players, knowing that he'll be dropped if he doesn't perform, awareness that his contract is at a critical point etc etc etc

Long may it continue.

Sparky_Hughes · Jan 25, 2021

Despite me being vehemently Pogba out, Im starting to warm to the idea of him renewing, He now has a manager that supports him and plays him, but also isnt afraid to drop him should he need it, which looks to have improved his focus and reliability, his recent performances have been very good at both ends of the pitch, have to say Im being won over fairly quickly.

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