Bayern Munich’s public pursuit of other team’s players...

Rozay · Feb 2, 2021

Zehner said:
Reports in Germany suggest Dortmund was annoyed by United trying to play 5d chest when they just wanted to do straight forward business. No waiting games, no cheeky last minute bids, no negotiating, no secret media briefings, no leaked infos to Twitter insiders, just a price tag with a dead line, take it or leave it. Basically like an extension clause. Apparently this was also why Dortmund insisted on intermediaries.

I think during the Sancho saga two different world views collided. United applied bargaining tactics, confident that Dortmund is doing the same and would give in eventually, while the latter had absolutely no intentions to do so at all.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Even if what you say is true, that is far from any sort of unbecoming behaviour. Just because Dortmund want 120m, doesn’t mean we have to want to pay it. We knew that we wouldn’t pay it, and we knew that if they had not changed their stance by the end of the window, that we obviously won’t sign the player - because we knew we were not going to pay 120m.

Be that as it may, we have every right to try to negotiate a quote if we choose to. It takes two. And there is no deadline, the only deadline is the one imposed by FIFA to complete the deal. United also said that this deadline was never communicated to them by Dortmund anyway.

We could never be ‘confident’ Dortmund would give in, but we are entitled to hope that they do. And it is their right to refuse to, and the outcome of that can only be confirmed at the close of the transfer window, not some BS window that they had created. Dortmund set a deadline for us to complete a British record deal which was before our season has even finished, which was always ridiculous from the very start.

Hansi Fick · Feb 2, 2021

Rozay said:
We could never be ‘confident’ Dortmund would give in, but we are entitled to hope that they do.

Exactly. Ed was never confident, only 'quietly confident'.

LilyWhiteSpur · Feb 2, 2021

The irony......

Rozay · Feb 2, 2021

Hansi Fick said:
Exactly. Ed was never confident, only 'quietly confident'.

Which is the correct and respectful way to be confident. You were openly confident you would get Hudson-Odoi, and ended up looking like the idiots you are trying to claim we were over Sancho.

harms · Feb 2, 2021

The only thing that kinda makes up for it is that they’re unusually open with their press about their own players as well (Alana, Thiago etc.). Usually you get clubs that comment on other club’s players and then threaten to sue those who dare to speak about potentially acquiring their own (like Barca, PSG and Messi).

Still, it’s not a sporting thing to do at all.

nuanced · Feb 2, 2021

2ndTouch said:
Was there anything new to learn about his contract and transfer status? No. His RC and its sum were well known since last summer. He has decided to leave and is now negotiating with 3 clubs, one of them being us. So, what's so horrible about being honest about it?

Talking about other teams players, which might cause them to get unsettled is a taboo in football. All top teams' management bar BM follow this.
Let's not go along with the narrative that KHR & UH say these things out of a feeling of being honest to their fans. I suppose leaking Gotze's Bayern move a day before Dortmund's CL semi final was also out of the goodness of their hearts? Both of them can't control their mouths, and have been called out for their behavior by football entities across borders.

Zehner · Feb 2, 2021

Rozay said:
Even if what you say is true, that is far from any sort of unbecoming behaviour. Just because Dortmund want 120m, doesn’t mean we have to want to pay it. We knew that we wouldn’t pay it, and we knew that if they had not changed their stance by the end of the window, that we obviously won’t sign the player - because we knew we were not going to pay 120m.

Be that as it may, we have every right to try to negotiate a quote if we choose to. It takes two. And there is no deadline, the only deadline is the one imposed by FIFA to complete the deal. United also said that this deadline was never communicated to them by Dortmund anyway.

We could never be ‘confident’ Dortmund would give in, but we are entitled to hope that they do. And it is their right to refuse to, and the outcome of that can only be confirmed at the close of the transfer window, not some BS window that they had created. Dortmund set a deadline for us to complete a British record deal which was before our season has even finished, which was always ridiculous from the very start.

As you said, it takes two and if one sets a deadline, the FIFA deadline plays no role anymore. Also worth pointing out that Dortmund has made many deals with many top clubs and usually has pretty good relationships with them. See Madrid for instance. United is the only one that got such a treatment, not even Barcelona received it after the Dembele farce. There's more than enough indication that Dortmund was fed up with United in particular and I guess it had to do with the 5d chess and media briefings part.

Another poster just mentioned that Dortmund never had any interest in selling Sancho and just put those conditions out there because they made a promise to him. I think this is what happened. They felt obliged to sell at the conditions they communicated to him (120m at a set deadline) but preferred not to sell him at all. Hence the take it or leave it nature.

Anyway, not the thread for this I guess. Let's not bash Dortmund or United but Bayern I'd say

Hansi Fick · Feb 2, 2021

Rozay said:
Which is the correct and respectful way to be confident. You were openly confident you would get Hudson-Odoi, and ended up looking like the idiots you are trying to claim we were over Sancho.

That is just not true.
We looked like far bigger idiots. Besides, you'll still get Sancho next summer while we've failed in repeated attempts now.

Siorac · Feb 2, 2021

MadDogg said:
What Dortmund pulled with those three aspects (deadline, price and refusal to talk between clubs) is pretty much unheard of in footballing transfers so it's hardly surprising that it wasn't taken seriously.

Do you think clubs never set deadlines and high prices for their players?

Everyone in Germany took it seriously, that should have been enough. I don't necessarily blame the club; after all, no one officially connected to Manchester United said a word throughout the summer so as far as we know, we might as well have given up in August and only the British media kept it alive. Our fans, however, acted like complete arrogant lunatics in that Sancho thread, constantly belittling Dortmund and the Bundesliga - and then wondered why the German posters were somewhat irritated by that.

GlasgowCeltic · Feb 2, 2021

Shame they didn’t get Hudson Odoi, looks a major talent

nuanced · Feb 2, 2021

Zehner said:
See, a really really likeable club

Yes, quite the bully. After years of nicking off players from smaller BL clubs, they've recently started tapping up players at the top clubs. They're quickly learning that these tactics don't work quite as well when a club has options other than selling them their players.

Siorac · Feb 2, 2021

bond19821982 said:
Tbh, Real always pay up. Trying to get things done on cheap by going public is very Bayern and Barca esque.

After Griezmann, Coutinho, and Dembele you surely can't accuse Barca of being cheap and not paying up.

Well, I mean, they still owe Liverpool for Coutinho so I guess in the literal sense they didn't pay up but still. They haven't been getting players on the cheap for a while now.

MyOnlySolskjaer · Feb 2, 2021

Don't Barca presidents announce who they are going to sign before being elected.

Nickelodeon · Feb 2, 2021

bond19821982 said:
Tbh, Real always pay up. Trying to get things done on cheap by going public is very Bayern and Barca esque.

Barca wish that they were cheap

Piratesoup · Feb 2, 2021

Hurt butts galore

horsechoker · Feb 2, 2021

MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Don't Barca presidents announce who they are going to sign before being elected.

That seems more political than arrogance.

If you're trying to win the Presidency of a football club then it helps to say you'll sign big names. Whether or not they deliver on that promise is another matter

kaiser1 · Feb 2, 2021

nuanced said:
Talking about other teams players, which might cause them to get unsettled is a taboo in football. All top teams' management bar BM follow this.
Let's not go along with the narrative that KHR & UH say these things out of a feeling of being honest to their fans. I suppose leaking Gotze's Bayern move a day before Dortmund's CL semi final was also out of the goodness of their hearts? Both of them can't control their mouths, and have been called out for their behavior by football entities across borders.

Where did you get the bold from? Madrid talked openly about Ribery Lewandoski, just like they did about DeGea and C Ronaldo. Was Man Utd not talking about other teams players as well. Barcelona was all over Neymar last summer, They openly declared interest in Beckham Ronaldinho months earlier. They openly chased Coutinho and were not ashamed of it. Fabregas with Arsenal too, they spoke about him coming back "home" for years

Zehner · Feb 2, 2021

Siorac said:
After Griezmann, Coutinho, and Dembele you surely can't accuse Barca of being cheap and not paying up.

Well, I mean, they still owe Liverpool for Coutinho so I guess in the literal sense they didn't pay up but still. They haven't been getting players on the cheap for a while now.

They tried though. Turned Dembele's head, tried the same with Coutinho and Griezmann also tarnished his legacy at Atletico a bit in order to join Barcelona. Madrid definitely has a much better reputation as a buying club. Can't recall the last player who tried to force his way out to join them.

Then again, Madrid is pretty ruthless in moving on players they don't need anymore.

kaiser1 · Feb 2, 2021

horsechoker said:
That seems more political than arrogance.

If you're trying to win the Presidency of a football club then it helps to say you'll sign big names. Whether or not they deliver on that promise is another matter

So you think if Barcelona presidential candidate mentions Bruno as a target Man Utd will be okay with it? Won't that fall under public pursuit of another teams player?

Siorac · Feb 2, 2021

Zehner said:
They tried though. Turned Dembele's head, tried the same with Coutinho and Griezmann also tarnished his legacy at Atletico a bit in order to join Barcelona. Madrid definitely has a much better reputation as a buying club. Can't recall the last player who tried to force his way out to join them.

Then again, Madrid is pretty ruthless in moving on players they don't need anymore.

Madrid are the kings of publicly tapping up players, come on now. Florentino Pérez won his first election promising to sign Figo, Zidane, and Beckham. I also remember a saga involving a certain Cristiano Ronaldo.

feck Real Madrid is all I'm trying to say.

Blackwidow · Feb 2, 2021

GlasgowCeltic said:
Shame they didn’t get Hudson Odoi, looks a major talent

Instead of paying big money for Hudson-Odoi Bayern got Musiala for free... Let's see in a couple of years who has made the better deal. And Hudson-Odoi got a good paying contract...

Be glad about everything that runs publically. The taping up does not function with the media but behind the scenes. And there is no big club that is better than the others.

Zehner · Feb 2, 2021

Siorac said:
Madrid are the kings of publicly tapping up players, come on now. Florentino Pérez won his first election promising to sign Figo, Zidane, and Beckham. I also remember a saga involving a certain Cristiano Ronaldo.

feck Real Madrid is all I'm trying to say.

Probably true. I was more referring to recent examples. After all the Cristiano transfer happened more than 10 years ago. In general they seem to have a healthy relationship nowadays with clubs they purchase from. Clubs the size of Dortmund or Leverkusen at least seem to enjoy doing business with them, see Hakimi, Reinier, Carvajal, etc. The Hazard transfer also seemed to go through more harmonically than other 100+m signings. The climate surrounding the Dembele, Coutinho and Griezmann deals were quite toxic if I remember correctly.

Rozay · Feb 2, 2021

GlasgowCeltic said:
Shame they didn’t get Hudson Odoi, looks a major talent

I agree. Think it was clear seeing him with the England youth teams that he had the talent to go all the way. He’d have been a great signing for Bayern, and while they behaved disrespectfully to Chelsea - I am disappointed for him that the move didn’t come off as it would have been interesting to see. For England too. They would have potentially had a star winger who would spend his prime at one of the top clubs abroad. Different to Sancho, who was always being fattened up to sell and is likely to spend his prime in the PL.

I hope he doesn’t have to play wing back for long under Tuchel though.

2ndTouch · Feb 2, 2021

do.ob said:
The press reporting something and Bayern officials confirming something are two different things entirely. You think if a couple of months ago Perez would have come out and said: "yeah Alaba is a goner at Bayern, we're talking to his agent" then Rummenigge's response would have been? "fair enough, Bild has reported it anyway"?

Alaba didn't have a RC in his contract.

kaiser1 · Feb 2, 2021

Blackwidow said:
Instead of paying big money for Hudson-Odoi Bayern got Musiala for free... Let's see in a couple of years who has made the better deal. And Hudson-Odoi got a good paying contract...

Be glad about everything that runs publically. The taping up does not function with the media but behind the scenes. And there is no big club that is better than the others.

Its funny seeing fans of other clubs whine about what their clubs do too, Man Utd wasn't particularly quiet in the chasing of Pogba and Bruno either. Madrid has been talking about Mbappe for over 2yrs now like they did about Hazard and Lewandoski.
The Barcelonas and Madrid do it to the Liverpools, Man Utd and Bayern, who do it to the Dortmunds, Arsenal and Atletico who do it to the Southampton, Mochengladbach etc. Its a food chain

B. Munich · Feb 2, 2021

nuanced said:
Talking about other teams players, which might cause them to get unsettled is a taboo in football. All top teams' management bar BM follow this.
Let's not go along with the narrative that KHR & UH say these things out of a feeling of being honest to their fans. I suppose leaking Gotze's Bayern move a day before Dortmund's CL semi final was also out of the goodness of their hearts? Both of them can't control their mouths, and have been called out for their behavior by football entities across borders.

Players will get unsettled or distracted whether the interested clubs doing it publicly like Bayern does or behind doors.
Only difference are the fans who will also get unsettled, if they learn another club is interested in one of their stars.

If Bayern wanted to unsettle Dortmund they would have waited until a few days of the final in Wembley, wouldn't they?
I doubt Bayern would have preferred that Dortmund lost to Real Madrid and they would have to face a strong Madrid side on the final. So these accusations are media rubbish.

Talking about unsettling players, Sancho seems to be way more unsettled than Upamecano who is playing a strong season. Also Nagelsmann seems to be not really bothered.

Yes I'm a Bayern fan, and I'm biased. But I'm sure many who are complaining here in this thread, secretly admire how Bayern is doing their business. They would love, if their club is run as successfull as Bayern without sugar daddy money or being indebted like a famous Spanish giant.

There is a saying in German. "Mitleid bekommt man geschenkt. Neid muss man sich erarbeiten"
Dunno if there is an English translation but the meaning is. Sympathy is free. Envy have to be earned.

MadDogg · Feb 2, 2021

Siorac said:
Do you think clubs never set deadlines and high prices for their players?

A deadline is one thing. Such an early deadline, alongside a ridiculously high price (it would have been ok before Covid but was obviously overpriced after it) and refusal to actually communicate between the clubs themselves (which would obviously have slowed the process down), combined with being so vocal after it had passed, leads me to think Dortmund never intended to sell and just used the opportunity to

Siorac said:
Everyone in Germany took it seriously, that should have been enough. I don't necessarily blame the club; after all, no one officially connected to Manchester United said a word throughout the summer so as far as we know, we might as well have given up in August and only the British media kept it alive. Our fans, however, acted like complete arrogant lunatics in that Sancho thread, constantly belittling Dortmund and the Bundesliga - and then wondered why the German posters were somewhat irritated by that.

I do agree with you there. Some of our fans were an absolute embarrassment during and after the saga, and it's continued to this day in some other threads related to anything German. There's some idiot who has recently spent day after day belittling Dortmund for being a 'selling club', ignoring that there's about 7 clubs in the entire world who don't fit that same category and half of them are backed by billionaires or oil money.

It reminds me of Lukaku's comments and rubbish he's come out with, which has understandably led most of our fanbase to dislike him. An unfortunate percentage of our fans have been acting a similar arrogant way towards Dortmund (and German football in general) except far worse.

Raredaredevil · Feb 3, 2021

manutddjw said:
It’s perfectly fine. They stockpile the best players from the Bundesliga and then when they do well in the Champions League, all bundesliga fans can rejoice at the combined effort to showcase their superior league. We just don’t get it.

This makes me laugh because its too true. I love Germany and the Germans but they can be quite insecure and defensive about their league.

OutlawGER · Feb 3, 2021

Siorac said:
Do you think clubs never set deadlines and high prices for their players?

Everyone in Germany took it seriously, that should have been enough. I don't necessarily blame the club; after all, no one officially connected to Manchester United said a word throughout the summer so as far as we know, we might as well have given up in August and only the British media kept it alive. Our fans, however, acted like complete arrogant lunatics in that Sancho thread, constantly belittling Dortmund and the Bundesliga - and then wondered why the German posters were somewhat irritated by that.

Thank you, good summary.

Hansi Fick · Feb 3, 2021

do.ob said:
The press reporting something and Bayern officials confirming something are two different things entirely. You think if a couple of months ago Perez would have come out and said: "yeah Alaba is a goner at Bayern, we're talking to his agent" then Rummenigge's response would have been? "fair enough, Bild has reported it anyway"?

The funny thing of course is, the only ones talking publicly about Alaba to Real, are - Rummenigge and Hainer :lol:

They just can't help themselves.

roonster09 said:
Did anyone from ManUtd talk anything about Sancho in the summer? I don't remember reading anything.

It's pretty telling about your absolute lack of self-awareness that you guys indeed seem to believe Utd's pursuit of Sancho last summer wasn't 'public'..
But I'll let you figure it out for yourself.

romufc · Feb 3, 2021

Hansi Fick said:
It's pretty telling about your absolute lack of self-awareness that you guys indeed seem to believe Utd's pursuit of Sancho last summer wasn't 'public'..
But I'll let you figure it out for yourself.

Was it United to had a special press conference to address rumours?

Was it United who had players addressing Sancho rumours?

When did you hear a Manutd member discussing this?

roonster09 · Feb 3, 2021

Hansi Fick said:
It's pretty telling about your absolute lack of self-awareness that you guys indeed seem to believe Utd's pursuit of Sancho last summer wasn't 'public'..
But I'll let you figure it out for yourself.

So just nonsense then.

Inigo Montoya · Feb 3, 2021

Raredaredevil said:
This makes me laugh because its too true. I love Germany and the Germans but they can be quite insecure and defensive about their league.

I disagree slightly. They are realistic and have a grudging acceptance that BM are a juggernaut that is impossible to stop. Like most private industries, BM don't care about their rivals in their pursuit of domination. Doesn't mean they like it.

HTG · Feb 3, 2021

It‘s a shitty thing to do, no doubt about it. On the other hand I’ll never get why so many people on here seem to passionately hate the Bundesliga. It’s so strange.

Siorac · Feb 3, 2021

MadDogg said:
A deadline is one thing. Such an early deadline, alongside a ridiculously high price (it would have been ok before Covid but was obviously overpriced after it) and refusal to actually communicate between the clubs themselves (which would obviously have slowed the process down), combined with being so vocal after it had passed, leads me to think Dortmund never intended to sell and just used the opportunity to

Maybe they never intended to sell, yeah. Either way though: it was blatantly obvious after August 10 that they weren't going to sell, regardless of their prior willingness or lack of it. If Woodward and co. didn't realise it, it's on them. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to keep your own player and setting prices that you don't think anyone's going to pay. The attitude that somehow Dortmund owed us a discussion, that it was somehow unreasonable not to lower the price permeated the entire Sancho thread and it was baffling. They didn't want to sell for 80m or 100m or 107.75 in three installments. They asked for 120m and if we had been willing to pay that, Sancho would have been ours. We weren't and I don't blame the club for that at all but I can't see how Dortmund can be faulted for their stance.

Godfather · Feb 3, 2021

Hansi Fick said:
It's pretty telling about your absolute lack of self-awareness that you guys indeed seem to believe Utd's pursuit of Sancho last summer wasn't 'public'..
But I'll let you figure it out for yourself.

What Man United official was talking about it? Ed Woodward? Ole?

Btw what is it with your username? Did you choose that yourself or was that a mod?

tenpoless · Feb 3, 2021

Rozay said:
Bayern’s directors seem to casually give direct quotes every week to the press about players they want to buy.

And Dortmund's directors seem to give direct quotes every season to the press about players they want to sell. A match made in heaven. Big Daddy Bayern and Maid Dortmund.

Bayern : "Me want your player"
Dortmund (and other Bundesliga clubs) : "Yes milord"

The Corinthian · Feb 3, 2021

HTG said:
It‘s a shitty thing to do, no doubt about it. On the other hand I’ll never get why so many people on here seem to passionately hate the Bundesliga. It’s so strange.

I don't think anyone really hates the Bundesliga, per se.

I think there's 2 things in general - 1) It's more the air of moral superiority and tone that fans of Bundesliga teams seem to exude.

2) They also come across a bit desperate when defending Bayern to non-BL football fans. For example, can you imagine fans of say, United, City or Spurs defending Liverpool to fans of another league? All a bit odd really.

Siorac · Feb 3, 2021

tenpoless said:
And Dortmund's directors seem to give direct quotes every season to the press about players they want to sell. A match made in heaven. Big Daddy Bayern and Maid Dortmund.

Bayern : "Me want your player"
Dortmund (and other Bundesliga clubs) : "Yes milord"

Dortmund sold more players to us than to Bayern in the last decade though. Kagawa and Mkhitaryan vs Hummels. I'm not including Götze who had a release clause or Lewandowski who ran down his contract to join Bayern after Dortmund had flat-out refused to sell him to them: Dortmund had no choice in either case.

Hansi Fick · Feb 3, 2021

Siorac said:
Dortmund sold more players to us than to Bayern in the last decade though. Kagawa and Mkhitaryan vs Hummels. I'm not including Götze who had a release clause or Lewandowski who ran down his contract to join Bayern after Dortmund had flat-out refused to sell him to them: Dortmund had no choice in either case.

And even then, we might have bought Hummels once from Dortmund, but they bought him twice from us

Bayern Munich’s public pursuit of other team’s players...

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