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UNITED ACADEMY

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You are only mentioning the transfers that support your theory. I could easily claim the opposite with accusing Leverkusen to be a feeder club for Dortmund.
Giving away 3 players, Toprak, Castro and Brandt. The latter even in the cheap, much cheaper than Goetze.
While Dortmund made fleeced the competion by selling Auba, Dembele, Kagawa above their actual value.

Some players don't fulfill their potential after moving to another club and the transfer fee looks to high after a few years. Other players like Lewandowski or Mané/Salah over achieved and are looking a bargain in hindsight. That's how football works. Always been that way.

If you are looking at the transfer history of any club over the last 10 years, you can will find blunders. Bayern Munich lost Kroos on the cheap and now Alaba on a free transfer.
I better won't get into Man United transfer record over the last 10 years. However, I think most will agree Dortmund did a better job with only fracture of the resources.
You have right to accuse Leverkusen being feeder club, I don’t remember I was arguing Leverkusen being or not being feeder club.

Explain how is Bayern losing Kroos to Real Madrid is the same thing as Dortmund feeding those three players to Bayern? Real Madrid isn’t playing in Bundesliga FFS!

The point is Dortmund had the potential to win few more trophies especially the Bundesliga from building the foundation with those three if they show enough ambition, but they wasted the chance and chose to just fed them to Bayern aka the feeding club, strengthening Bayern. You want to talk about Man United transfer record over the last 10 years, why is it even relevant? Man United never feed their best players to Liverpool or Chelsea or Man city in those 10 years so it’s irrelevant to the discussion.
 

B. Munich

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Bayern has more than just one player aka lot of players with salary of 5m-8m per year. What sense does it make for you to start comparing Dortmund‘s chance to pay only one single player in their squad as caliber as Lewandowski for 8m per year?

First of all, Frankfurt is not 20th but 27th. Second, they don’t have player as caliber as Lewandowski that worth the money, they don’t have the players/squad to have ambition to win the league like what Dortmund had at that time.



Who?

Why do I need to tell you the market price for a defender on his last year contract, why is it relevant? Are you forgetting that the point is that they shouldn’t let their player on his final year of their contract? Dortmund would lose the price so much when they could actually minimum double the price to sell him when he has 2 years on his contract. That’s why I mentioned Havertz’s case. And again, you don’t insert 37m euro release clause. That’s why I mentioned Havertz’s case.
You have right to accuse Leverkusen being feeder club, I don’t remember I was arguing Leverkusen being or not being feeder club.

Explain how is Bayern losing Kroos to Real Madrid is the same thing as Dortmund feeding those three players to Bayern? Real Madrid isn’t playing in Bundesliga FFS!

The point is Dortmund had the potential to win few more trophies especially the Bundesliga from building the foundation with those three if they show enough ambition, but they wasted the chance and chose to just fed them to Bayern aka the feeding club, strengthening Bayern. You want to talk about Man United transfer record over the last 10 years, why is it even relevant? Man United never feed their best players to Liverpool or Chelsea or Man city in those 10 years so it’s irrelevant to the discussion.
You said Dortmund should have done what Leverkusen did with Havertz. Well they did this with Dembele, Aubameyang, Kagawa, Miki.... They couldn't do it with Lewandowski for the reasons I and other posters stated several times.

You have to compare Dortmund with Leicester, Tottenham, Arsenal, not with Manchester United. You can compare Manchester United with Bayern Munich, both are the top dog in the league.

I mentioned Bayern because even the top dogs will lose players, even on a free, under certain circumstances.

You are always arguing in hindsight. Dortmund got the best years of Götze. He never reached his levels of his first 2 years. He even returned to Dortmund when Hummels left. Thus, they never lost 3 players to Bayern Munich.
The only real loss was Lewandowski but he was replaced with Aubameyang who wasn't bad either. Lewandowski also reached another level at Bayern You can compare his loss to the loss of Kroos, who became even better at Real Madrid.
Bayern decided to sell for 30 millions instead of letting him run down his contract and leaving on a free like Lewandowski did.
If course we can always argue which option is the better. At the end both clubs lost players they actually wanted to keep.

Anyway I believe you main issue isn't Dortmund selling players but selling them to Bayern within the Bundesliga.
Arsenal did this multiple times to Man City, Chelsea and even Man United.
Even you guys sold Tevez to Man City not too long ago. Where is the difference?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You said Dortmund should have done what Leverkusen did with Havertz. Well they did this with Dembele, Aubameyang, Kagawa, Miki.... They couldn't do it with Lewandowski for the reasons I and other posters stated several times.
So? I don’t know why are you arguing that? I don’t remember I was arguing with Dortmund selling those players to Barcelona, Arsenal and United.

This (below) is your only post previously between our conversation. Stop lying! You have explained nothing why they couldn’t do it with Lewandowski.
You are only mentioning the transfers that support your theory. I could easily claim the opposite with accusing Leverkusen to be a feeder club for Dortmund.
Giving away 3 players, Toprak, Castro and Brandt. The latter even in the cheap, much cheaper than Goetze.
While Dortmund made fleeced the competion by selling Auba, Dembele, Kagawa above their actual value.

Some players don't fulfill their potential after moving to another club and the transfer fee looks to high after a few years. Other players like Lewandowski or Mané/Salah over achieved and are looking a bargain in hindsight. That's how football works. Always been that way.

If you are looking at the transfer history of any club over the last 10 years, you can will find blunders. Bayern Munich lost Kroos on the cheap and now Alaba on a free transfer.
I better won't get into Man United transfer record over the last 10 years. However, I think most will agree Dortmund did a better job with only fracture of the resources.
You have to compare Dortmund with Leicester, Tottenham, Arsenal, not with Manchester United. You can compare Manchester United with Bayern Munich, both are the top dog in the league.

I mentioned Bayern because even the top dogs will lose players, even on a free, under certain circumstances.

You are always arguing in hindsight. Dortmund got the best years of Götze. He never reached his levels of his first 2 years. He even returned to Dortmund when Hummels left. Thus, they never lost 3 players to Bayern Munich.
The only real loss was Lewandowski but he was replaced with Aubameyang who wasn't bad either. Lewandowski also reached another level at Bayern You can compare his loss to the loss of Kroos, who became even better at Real Madrid.
Bayern decided to sell for 30 millions instead of letting him run down his contract and leaving on a free like Lewandowski did.
If course we can always argue which option is the better. At the end both clubs lost players they actually wanted to keep.
Very irrelevant, I gave you my point of the argument and yet you still don’t understand. I suggest you to read again the last post you replied in order to understand what’s the argument first and come back with something else to counter it.

Anyway I believe you main issue isn't Dortmund selling players but selling them to Bayern within the Bundesliga.
Arsenal did this multiple times to Man City, Chelsea and even Man United.
Even you guys sold Tevez to Man City not too long ago. Where is the difference?
We didn’t sell Tevez to man city. We got Tevez for 2 years on loan deal, the loan deal ended in 2009. Big difference! Get the fact right first!

No difference with Arsenal, that’s why the fans were fuming, upset and people made joke out of them. People know if Arsenal actually shows more ambition to keep the players they sold, they could actually win trophies and the league. Just like my argument with Dortmund when they sold those three, arsenal also had potential.

The fact that you mentioned arsenal in the argument is only strengthening my argument.
 

Synco

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Thread's back on ignore. Kudos to everyone with the patience to try and make a reasonable argument.
 

B. Munich

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So? I don’t know why are you arguing that? I don’t remember I was arguing with Dortmund selling those players to Barcelona, Arsenal and United.

This (below) is your only post previously between our conversation. Stop lying! You have explained nothing why they couldn’t do it with Lewandowski.




Very irrelevant, I gave you my point of the argument and yet you still don’t understand. I suggest you to read again the last post you replied in order to understand what’s the argument first and come back with something else to counter it.



We didn’t sell Tevez to man city. We got Tevez for 2 years on loan deal, the loan deal ended in 2009. Big difference! Get the fact right first!

No difference with Arsenal, that’s why the fans were fuming, upset and people made joke out of them. People know if Arsenal actually shows more ambition to keep the players they sold, they could actually win trophies and the league. Just like my argument with Dortmund when they sold those three, arsenal also had potential.

The fact that you mentioned arsenal in the argument is only strengthening my argument.
Honestly I'm lost what you are actually arguing about.

I'm not lying. Read post #515 in which I explained why Dortmund had not much choices in the Lewandowski transfer.

Dortmund has been a tier below Bayern Munich in 2014 (and probably still are) and thus have little chance to stop a player to move to Bayern Munich, if the player really wants to.

You only could stop Wayne Rooney from moving to Man City by making him the highest paid player. Dortmund aren't in such a strong financial position.

I am not an expert about Man United. But didn't your club have a buy option for Tevez?
 

kaiser1

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Bayern has more than just one player aka lot of players with salary of 5m-8m per year. What sense does it make for you to start comparing Dortmund‘s chance to pay only one single player in their squad as caliber as Lewandowski for 8m per year?
What caliber was Lewandoski in his 2nd year to earn close to what RIbery and Schweinsteriger were? Are we considering that Bayerns value and revenue were about 4 times of Dortmund?


First of all, Frankfurt is not 20th but 27th. Second, they don’t have player as caliber as Lewandowski that worth the money, they don’t have the players/squad to have ambition to win the league like what Dortmund had at that time.

That is Frankfurt in #20 why do you think Frankfurt has no ambitions to win the league? You think they are just participaing for fun

Who?

Why do I need to tell you the market price for a defender on his last year contract, why is it relevant? Are you forgetting that the point is that they shouldn’t let their player on his final year of their contract? Dortmund would lose the price so much when they could actually minimum double the price to sell him when he has 2 years on his contract. That’s why I mentioned Havertz’s case. And again, you don’t insert 37m euro release clause. That’s why I mentioned Havertz’s case.
There are many players in different clubs on the last year of their contract, You can offer them a new contract and the player stalls like we have seen Mbappe Alaba Thiago etc to get on the last year. You start negotiating with 2.5yrs and by the time 7months is gone, the player is on their last2yrs with only 3 windows left to move for free.

If it was that easy, no club will be having players on their last years, Barcelona has been trying to extend Messi for months now and they are still holding out hope?
Liverpool have Salah Mane and Firmino expiring in 2023, you mean if by summer they don't extend all 3, they should sell?
 

kaiser1

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You have right to accuse Leverkusen being feeder club, I don’t remember I was arguing Leverkusen being or not being feeder club.

Explain how is Bayern losing Kroos to Real Madrid is the same thing as Dortmund feeding those three players to Bayern? Real Madrid isn’t playing in Bundesliga FFS!

The point is Dortmund had the potential to win few more trophies especially the Bundesliga from building the foundation with those three if they show enough ambition, but they wasted the chance and chose to just fed them to Bayern aka the feeding club, strengthening Bayern. You want to talk about Man United transfer record over the last 10 years, why is it even relevant? Man United never feed their best players to Liverpool or Chelsea or Man city in those 10 years so it’s irrelevant to the discussion.
Man Utd could avoid it because they are one of the richest clubs in the world

What was Liverpool able to do to stop Sterling and Torres from moving to other league rivals? Spurs to Carrick, Berbatov, Sol Campbell, Arsenal a bunch of players(Adebayor, RvP, Nasri, Cashley, Sagna, Clichy)

Basically, the teams able to resist within the league transfers of their best talents are richest club in the world Man Utd, Roman backed Chelsea and Sheikh backed City
 
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B. Munich

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What was Liverpool able to do to stop Sterling from moving to City? Spurs to Carrick, Berbatov, Sol Campbell, Arsenal a bunch of players(Adebayor, RvP, Nasri, Cashley, Sagna, Clichy)

Basically, the teams able to resist within the league transfers of their best talents are richest club in the world Man Utd, Roman backed Chelsea and Sheikh backed City
Exactly! There are only 4 clubs that have the financial cloud to match any offer if they want or bench a top star for the remaining years of his contract.
That's Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Man United. You add then the 3 sugar daddy clubs Chelsea, Man City and Paris St Germain and that's it.
 

kaiser1

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Exactly! There are only 4 clubs that have the financial cloud to match any offer if they want or bench a top star for the remaining years of his contract.
That's Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Man United. You add then the 3 sugar daddy clubs Chelsea, Man City and Paris St Germain and that's it.
Liverpool lost Sterling and Torres to the sugardaddy clubs in their league. Spurs lost their players to Man Utd, Arsenal lost their players to Citeh, Chelsea and Man Utd. Even Barcelona lost their jewel Neymar to money

So it has shown that the only immune teams are those that are silly rich. If you are not rich then what can you do?

Maybe Liverpool Spurs and Arsenal didn't have enough wisdom and ambitions to sell them outside the league or just pay them what City and Chelsea were offering (Like money grows on trees)
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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What caliber was Lewandoski in his 2nd year to earn close to what RIbery and Schweinsteriger were? Are we considering that Bayerns value and revenue were about 4 times of Dortmund?
He was a top striker, are you telling me a top striker who scored 30 goals in all competitions 11/12 and helped Dortmund to win the league for 2 seasons against the dominant Bayern that had Ribery & Schweinsteriger is not worth to be offered something close to them? Are you telling me they would rather lose him for free? After winning it twice, they have reason to be ambitious to keep their stars build with the. and give Lewandowski big salary.


That is Frankfurt in #20 why do you think Frankfurt has no ambitions to win the league? You think they are just participaing for fun
This shows you that you are stretching off the topic/the original argument. Why is it relevant?

I have given you my answer, because they never have the same potential that Dortmund had. Frankfurt never have Lewandowski, Gotze, Hummels and etc players that proven to win the league twice, Dortmund had reason to be ambitious at that time, to take risk. Frankfurt doesn’t have reason to be ambitious and to take a risk, they are so far to build a team to win the league.

There are many players in different clubs on the last year of their contract, You can offer them a new contract and the player stalls like we have seen Mbappe Alaba Thiago etc to get on the last year. You start negotiating with 2.5yrs and by the time 7months is gone, the player is on their last2yrs with only 3 windows left to move for free.

If it was that easy, no club will be having players on their last years, Barcelona has been trying to extend Messi for months now and they are still holding out hope?
Liverpool have Salah Mane and Firmino expiring in 2023, you mean if by summer they don't extend all 3, they should sell?
Yes there are many players in different clubs on the last year of their contract, but I have told you already you can’t compare it with Dortmund’s situation, don’t keep going circle when I have explained it already. Here the post:
Why are you comparing this? Barcelona, Bayern & PSG have the money and suitable situation to take such risk, and that’s why they were willing to pay the price for it especially knowing the likes of Messi is already on his 30is, Alaba is near to his 30is while PSG has arab money.

Dortmund doesn’t have the money and suitable situation to take such risk. That’s why they shouldn’t take the risk to leave player especially the non ageing ones on the final year in their contract.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Man Utd could avoid it because they are one of the richest clubs in the world
So? Don’t you read the post? I said irrelevant. You are just like the other poster, you don’t know what the original argument was.

What was Liverpool able to do to stop Sterling and Torres from moving to other league rivals? Spurs to Carrick, Berbatov, Sol Campbell, Arsenal a bunch of players(Adebayor, RvP, Nasri, Cashley, Sagna, Clichy)

Basically, the teams able to resist within the league transfers of their best talents are richest club in the world Man Utd, Roman backed Chelsea and Sheikh backed City
Spurs never be proven to had the chance to win it when they had Carrick & Berbatov, they had no same reason as Dortmund to be ambitious at that time. Dortmund had the squad to win the Bundesliga twice proven already, they had reason to be ambitious and not giving up their best players to Bayern.

And that’s why Liverpool & Arsenal were laughing stock and criticised when they done it. They had the potential squad to win but they wasted it by feeding them to their rival. You are just strengthening my argument here to criticised Dortmund the same way how people criticised Liverpool and arsenal.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Honestly I'm lost what you are actually arguing about.

I'm not lying. Read post #515 in which I explained why Dortmund had not much choices in the Lewandowski transfer.

Dortmund has been a tier below Bayern Munich in 2014 (and probably still are) and thus have little chance to stop a player to move to Bayern Munich, if the player really wants to.
I told you to read post #522 the post that I explained to you about what was the original argument, the last paragraph.

I have posted this many times before, if Dortmund was going to sell Lewandowski, it should be when he was in 2 years left in his contract which in end of 2011/2012 season and that was the time when Lewandowski had not set his mind to join Bayern and the time when the negotiation of new contract collapsed.

You only could stop Wayne Rooney from moving to Man City by making him the highest paid player. Dortmund aren't in such a strong financial position.

I am not an expert about Man United. But didn't your club have a buy option for Tevez?
Wayne Rooney signed 250k p/w deal, Lewandowski‘s demand was nothing in comparison to Rooney’s demand. Indeed, you need to be as strong as United financially for Rooney’s demand but you don’t need to be as strong as United’s financially for Lewandowski’s case, Dortmund was 20th richest club in the world in 2011.

No, we don’t have the buy option in his clause and we are not in contract with him to sell him to other clubs because it was just loan deal. Why is it even matter to the argument?
 
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Samid

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This is the kind of unprofessionalism their official account often comes out with. PSG losing a domestic game has absolutely zero relevance to Dortmund. Just a petty way to score cheap internet points.

Official accounts tweeting that kind of nonsense is apparently ‘good banter’ but if randomers dare banter Dortmund on the caf then they’ve got fans of Bayern, Köln, Neverkusen and the rest of the bundesliga mob coming for them.
 

cyberman

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Imagine having the season theyre having and trying to banter like this
 

ShinjiNinja26

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This is the kind of unprofessionalism their official account often comes out with. PSG losing a domestic game has absolutely zero relevance to Dortmund. Just a petty way to score cheap internet points.

Official accounts tweeting that kind of nonsense is apparently ‘good banter’ but if randomers dare banter Dortmund on the caf then they’ve got fans of Bayern, Köln, Neverkusen and the rest of the bundesliga mob coming for them.
Wow. Sad bastards! Used to really like Dortmund but have really started to despise them in recent years, petty as feck.
 

Lay

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Who runs these accounts? Is it the same company? Because it’s so cringe worthy.

Also a bit bizarre as Dortmund are 6th with 7 losses already. It’s not like PSG are a rival
 

hasanejaz88

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This is the kind of unprofessionalism their official account often comes out with. PSG losing a domestic game has absolutely zero relevance to Dortmund. Just a petty way to score cheap internet points.

Official accounts tweeting that kind of nonsense is apparently ‘good banter’ but if randomers dare banter Dortmund on the caf then they’ve got fans of Bayern, Köln, Neverkusen and the rest of the bundesliga mob coming for them.
Yea, this is why I don't have any sympathy now if people banter them. Their social media seems to be run by a bunch of kids, don't know how reflective that is of their front office. If they don't put a check on posts like this then it won't seem that different.

It would be okay if they were doing banter with other domestic teams, and tagging them, which clubs in the BL do in a light hearted manner. Going after a foreign club who you will rarely face is childish.
 

ColoRed

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I can´t stand Watzke. My wife knows him personally since she played for BVB ( handball ) and he must be an absolute arrogant fecker. BVB might not qualify for the CL this year; I'm curious to see who the new coach will be.
 

FootballHQ

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Regardless of budget sheets and wage bills they are 2 points off 8th.

Surely have to get in someone with managerial experience soon as season is just passing them by.
 

U99ted

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So if they miss out on CL we can get either Haaland or Sancho this summer for less?
 

ayushreddevil9

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I should probably restrain myself from echoing those 5 magical words until FT whistle but feck it.

YOU LOVE TO SEE IT!
 

ayushreddevil9

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This is the kind of unprofessionalism their official account often comes out with. PSG losing a domestic game has absolutely zero relevance to Dortmund. Just a petty way to score cheap internet points.

Official accounts tweeting that kind of nonsense is apparently ‘good banter’ but if randomers dare banter Dortmund on the caf then they’ve got fans of Bayern, Köln, Neverkusen and the rest of the bundesliga mob coming for them.
Neverkusen :lol:
 

prateik

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Let's not brand him at 17yo. How many of our own U23's do we claim are looking good when they're older than him still playing at that level?
How many 17 year olds have their shirt number retired by their club ? The branding isnt coming from people on the caf.. he has been massively overhyped.. expectations will be higher than a usual 17 year old.
 

manutddjw

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Isn’t there some kid from one of the English academy’s that they can buy and sell for a huge profit? Profit>points and trophies. Proper football club.
 

bsCallout

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How many 17 year olds have their shirt number retired by their club ? The branding isnt coming from people on the caf.. he has been massively overhyped.. expectations will be higher than a usual 17 year old.
Branding him as Barkley mk2 is coming from the CAF.

You can say he's been overhyped but he has a long career ahead to prove he warranted those expectations. First season at Dortmund, at 17, isn't when you claim he hasn't lived up to expectations.