Mickson, mate, this is utterly agenda driven cringe.
Amad Diallo signs for Manchester United
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
Players that debuted years ago, which I have already stated five times. What player has he given a debut to recently? Which player played against Luton? He didn't have a player on the bench against the mighty Tranmere. Tell me where I'm wrong instead of acting out.
Yet he still sold our striker. Also signing Haaland = planning for the future too.
Any manager, bar Jose Mourinho would be planning for the future.
And he sold our striker because our striker pretty much had a foot out the door. If a top striker was available I think he'd have got him in rather than rely on Greenwood to step up. Haaland was further in his trajectory than Greenwood was.
Does it really matter when they had their debut? The point is. He gives them (youth) the opportunity to make a claim to be in the starting 11. Witch IS giving them a chance.
Anyways, I have nothing more to say to you, cause you are clearly on a different planet than I am.
Cool, so we agree he is planning for the future.
My reply wasn't contesting that. It was just disagreeing with pointing to Greenwood as an example to that. Greenwood was circumstantial, the fact that we were trying to buy a more established striker than him points to that.
Lukaku wanted out and refused to train, good riddance too him.
Can't say Ole was wrong either! we didn't really miss him or Sanchez.
He literally brought them up. He was literally our academy director when they all signed and were introduced to our academy, some of them only 11 years of age.
You are seriously not getting this, are you?
Solskjaer plays more academy graduates than any other manager in the history of the Premier League. Yet your laughable 'argument' is that he doesn't give youth enough chances.
NOBODY has ever given youth more chances. The argument you are trying to make goes against every grain of evidence. You are ignoring FACTS. You are embarrassing yourself.
I'll say it again; to end this embarrassment for you.
Out of the 900 managers the Premier League has had, no manager has EVER given more academy graduates a chance per game than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Arguing Ole doesn't give youth a chance is akin to arguing that Sir Alex didn't win enough trophies.
You say you've watched Diallo play for Atalanta, that's bullshit, because I've been chasing those matches for months now, since back to last August when we signed this guy, and I have press credentials and media cards and yet I can't get to view them... so I'd love to know how you viewed them. On top of that, can you tell me if Diallo started or came on as a sub in the FOUR games he played for Atalanta? I know the answer, but you;ve seen the games, so I'd appreciate you answering that. I bet you don't though.
Here are ALL of the academy graduates Ole has given first team debuts to. Which is a record within two years for ANY MANAGER IN PREMIER LEAGUE HISTORY.
Tahith Chong
James Garner
Mason Greenwood
Brandon Williams
Di’Shon Bernard
Ethan Laird
Dylan Levitt
D’Mani Mellor
Largie Ramazani
Ethan Galbraith
Teden Mengi
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Both were masterstrokes from Ole.
Both players were shite for us. Rom was a step in the wrong direction for us style wise and Sanchez was abysmal.
Ole hasn't been an academy director at United, and even if he would've been, it has nothing to do with my point as you continue to refuse to read my posts. So I'm trying again. What Ole has done as a Reserve team coach, as a child, as a director, as a Molde coach, as a firefighter. That has NOTHING to do with what I'm trying to say. NOTHING. Neither has his managerial decisions two years ago or three years ago. Read my posts. I'm trying again: Ole does NOT give youth a chance NOW. And with "now" I mean in the last year. Why? In the beginning, he could ride the wave and he had everyone's back, he could play youth due to a weak squad. But now? Yes, NOW. Now he is afraid of losing, he is afraid of losing his job. You just have to look at the team he has put out recently in easier games. Against Luton - none. Against Tranmere (a bottom half League One side) NONE! ZERO! Against West Ham now, ZERO! Against Watford, ZERO! He hasn't given a debut to anyone in the last year. So does he play youth _NOW_? NO! Is that so difficult to take in? And the example with Amad is a perfect example of his cautiousness. Not even ten minutes in a game where we are leading against West Ham's b-team.
Boy this thread has taken a real change in direction! I'm pleased to see Diallo playing well in the U23s. He looks a cut above those he's up against and will no doubt make his debut before the season is out. I don't think we need to rush it though. He's a young lad moving to a new country who hasn't played that much football this season. He'll get his chance soon and I think he looks a very promising player for us.
He's a kid who has barely played football of any kind for the best part of a year. He's 18 and in a foreign country, maybe even on his own. Yes, he's remarkably talented and I wanted him on the pitch as much as the next man, but you didn't have to look too far to see how it could have gone horribly wrong if he did. Mipo Odubeko was subbed on and then off in that very same game. The look on his face afterwards, you could see the confidence had just drained from him. He looked empty. There are situations where you could bring a kid on for his debut, a tight 0-0 was never going to be that, and a tight 1-0 where any mistake could lead to a shootout wasn't it either. The hope was that we'd be 2 or 3 goals up early and we would then bring him in, but it wasn't to be.
In any case, like I said before Amad even arrived, Ole will put his development ahead of any immediate needs for the first team. He did it with Mason, and he likely did it with Haaland too. He knows what he's doing and if he didn't feel it was the right time for Amad, then I'm backing him all the way on that.
It's not about being scared of his job (especially since he is at perhaps the most secure point in his tenure thus far), it's just basic common sense.
I've given up responding to this Mickson bloke everyone else should too, no point, he ignores every good and logical point directed at him to go on about his own agenda, I loathe to use that word as its so overused on here, but its obvious he has one.
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How do player threads become another place to argue about Ole?
Any news on if he is featuring tonight for U23s?
Any news on if he is featuring tonight for U23s?
I haven't seen one logical point made where Ole gives youth players a chance in the last year. I'm still waiting, the only thing I see is people bringing up that Chong made his debut OVER two years ago
and claim it at some argument that Ole is giving youth a chance now. So you're welcome to argue with me and give some evidence that I'm wrong. Maybe we can talk about the fact that even Mourinho, TUCHEL, and Pep are braver in their squad management with youth in the last year.Mipo is not on the same planet as Amad, he wasn't even one of the stand out players in our academy. Amad is one of the best I've ever seen play in our academy. I see what you're saying, but IMO he should have given Amad some playing time. Do you want a manager that calculates risks in everything they do? Some people act like we had lost 3-1 if we played Amad instead of Rashford for the last ten minutes. Why should Rashford, Martial etc get a free pass if they don't perform? He deserved to play after his performances for the U23.
Not yet, to my knowledge. But I'd be surprised if he didn't play tonight and instead featured in tomorrow's matchday squad. Think Ole is going for a more cautious approach, which tbh I totally understand.
How he can't see it is embarrassingly tragic to throw this size of strop over Amad not playing for the first team yet when he's been here 5 minutes is impressive. That lack of self awareness is dangerous.
That’s a ridiculously bold claim about someone who’s played a grand total of 180 minutes in a United shirt.
I know. I think he is that good.
Maybe Ole hasn’t given significant youth debuts to new youth players because we’re still bedding in current ones? Making it unrealistic and stupid to bed even more in at the same time?
Well seeing as the likes of Hugill, Mjebri and Puigmal were equally as impressive in those two games it looks like our bench should be stacked with teenagers on Sunday.
Don't forget Shoretire should be starting, it's only fair after getting a hat trick.
This used to be quite common with African players, usually for age related reasons, so lets hope he's not really 24.What's this about Diallo being fined for falsifying documents related to his Italian passport? Says that he had someone pretend to be his mum and dad
Guess while find out in a few years, if he's done at 26, could mean he's really 33.
Its an angle or excuse. Its just ridiculous how somehow 80% of threads will get to this point.
At this point, Ole represents their easy scapegoat for all the hurt, pain and frustrations in their own personal lives. It's quite sad really.
That may be so, but you're the first to acknowledge my point so kudos. My general feeling is that he is very reserved with players, he is willing to give them plenty of chances. Andreas Pereira, Jesse Lingard, now Daniel James. I don't really see the point in keeping giving chances to players who never take them.
No, they weren't.
I have never said that. I have said that if you perform for the U23, you should be rewarded. Put Hugill on the bench in the next match after four goals, we have 9 subs. But nice to see you trying to be clever, it's a nice try considering you don't have anything to come up with. You are completely lost here and I don't think you have even read my posts.
Yes, they were.
I'm definitely in the "Ole-in" camp, but those debuts are sort of meaningless and shows why it's not really a good metric to measure how good a coach is with youth, most got their debut in a game against Astana. How many of them have played since? Only Greenwood and Williams somewhat frequently.
Galbraith and Levitt, look good but not incredible. We are also absolutely stacked in midfield with VDB and Matic not getting as much game time as they would think they deserve. Mengi has been pretty poor this season in the reserves and is now on loan. Laird missed every opportunity to be featured through injury and has now gone on loan. Hugill is far too young. You have to remember we do have a squad of first teamsters that the manager also has to keep happy. I don’t think any of the youth can feel too aggrieved for not getting in ahead of certain players. You also say it’s what ‘great managers do’. Klopp has only introduced TAA and Curtis Jones as proper first team squad members, being forced into playing his younger CBs out of crisis. He even played against an Aston Villa side of all youth players and played prettt much his first team. Pep has only really brought through Phil Foden. You’re just chatting pure breeze. But frankly if I were to follow you round the forum you strongly criticise Ole at every opportunity.
I disagree that Mipo wasn't a standout here. He scored plenty of goals and in a normal intake, he would have been given every chance. It was just his rotten luck that he had Greenwood around at the same time.I haven't seen one logical point made where Ole gives youth players a chance in the last year. I'm still waiting, the only thing I see is people bringing up that Chong made his debut OVER two years ago
Mipo is not on the same planet as Amad, he wasn't even one of the stand out players in our academy. Amad is one of the best I've ever seen play in our academy. I see what you're saying, but IMO he should have given Amad some playing time. Do you want a manager that calculates risks in everything they do? Some people act like we had lost 3-1 if we played Amad instead of Rashford for the last ten minutes. Why should Rashford, Martial etc get a free pass if they don't perform? He deserved to play after his performances for the U23.
Amad has looked ridiculously good but I think you're going overboard here. He's essentially a ringer when he's playing in the u23s, and the level is so low, that it really isn't that much of a gauge of someone being ready beyond the base level of talent and ability. In Amad's case, it's patently obvious that it is only being used so that he can build up his match fitness in low stake surroundings rather than have him run before he can walk in the first team. I've also seen Giuseppe Rossi have the same impact that Amad had back in 2003, but he still had to have a season or so in the reserves and a loan. Progress is very rarely linear, and just because Amad has had two good games at u23s does not mean that he's a guaranteed sure thing to contribute right away.
Like I said, Haaland and Greenwood came through under Ole's watch, and in the case of Greenwood, he put his long-term development ahead of any immediate needs of the first team. It worked out perfectly for us come the back end of the season and I have absolute faith in Ole in how he wants to handle Amad's development also.
Who exactly?
Our usual model used to be one or two emerging (perhaps the above discussion needs that distinction) youth products a year. Then we'd give lots of them a reward in the early cup games.
As a minimum I'd expect one youth player being properly introduced in the first team per year. So far this season we haven't done that but it should be Amad hopefully.
Unfortunately we've already failed the reward aspect when a couple could have played, Europa is a perfect opportunity but i reckon we'll play the squad instead.
are people saying Ole is a mad man for not playing Amad?
Diallo not think Ole is the best person to decide when he plays?
I'll get my coat....
Diallo not think Ole is the best person to decide when he plays?
I'll get my coat....
Sort of a meaningless discussion, but in no way was Hugill equally good in both matches, he was even pretty anonoymous in the last game where Amad scored one and had 3 assists...
Exactly. If we look at the last year, his use for youngsters has pretty much been non-existent since he started fearing for his job and he started to get a taste for success. We have played Tranmere, Luton, Watford etc and he still hasn't played anyone. I don't get why people just can't accept that. It's a fact.
Where did I mention Klopp? And you spend your whole text based on Klopp, who is totally irrelevant here??? Has Klopp said that he gives youth a chance? Have I said that? I'm confused. Regarding Pep, he has played youngsters and given them a chance. He does that in lesser games because it's pretty normal to do that. I wouldn't even say that Pep is good at it, nor does he has any duty to do that. It's Manchester United and Ole who constantly say that they give youth a chance, which is pretty funny when you considering that even Mourinho and Pep has given more debuts lately than Ole. So who's chatting 'pure breeze'?
Fair enough. I don't think he was a standout, but yes maybe he would be one of the better ones. Regarding the other bold, I'm pretty sure that Daniel James would look like less of a player in the U23, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't dominate as much as Amad did. I'm also pretty sure that Amad is the superior footballer compared to Daniel James, even now. But hey, we'll see I guess.
Daniel James would look great in the U23 I'd expect,. it's a very poor standard of football.
Toodiall-oo.
We do need to start playing him a bit and see how he gets on in the Premier League for our future planning. I'm not talking about him being a nailed on starter next season, but if he looks like he's good enough to make a contribution next season, then we can get away with Mason, Rashford or Cavani on the right next season while we work to develop Diallo in a couple seasons. If he does poorly and looks like he'll need a loan or 2 then we can go out a buy a Sancho for example.
With the pandemic, we're running on a limited budget with very few sellable assets and a few holes to fill. If we know what we could have with Diallo next season we can adjust our targets accordingly with the money we have.
With the pandemic, we're running on a limited budget with very few sellable assets and a few holes to fill. If we know what we could have with Diallo next season we can adjust our targets accordingly with the money we have.
Besides Greenwood and Williams, all the others were just pretty much given their debuts and thats about it. I wouldn't say that he gave all of them opportunities, nor that he should had because some are clearly not ready/good enough.
Minutes played in the last 2 seasons:
Mengi: 546
Chong: 327
Garner: 292
Laird: 112
Bernard: 90
Levitt: 90
Mellor: 25
Ramazani: 6
Galbraith: 1
I mean its not like those players are actively part of the squad as to call Ole to have gave them the chance. Most of those minutes were either in a "garbage" group game in the Europa League last season who had no implication whatsoever or in the lower rounds of the EFL cup.
Im not saying Ole doesn't work with youth, but I think if he's going to be recognized for youth then the mentioned ones should be Greenwood and Williams. The "debut" stat seems just like a checklist one. I mean 5 out of the 11 debuts were just really debuts and thats about it.
Huh? Where?
Ole had the youngest squad in the premier league last year and people are saying he’s not given youth a chance, There’s some very strange individuals on this forum.
Really looking forward to the match on Sunday. We're playing one of the worst top flight teams in Europe's big five leagues (although wouldn't put it past United to make a difficult job of it) so hopefully, it's comfortable early on and Amad gets to show us his stuff. Good omen that he wasn't playing for the U23s tonight in that regard.