It's a strange one, she presumably doesn't have an issue with people expressing an opinion but has a problem with someone taking a knee. What is so bad about taking the knee?
As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?
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I've literally quoted your whole post. North Korea is a text-book fascist regime that ticks all the boxes — while it has literally nothing leftist about it.
Left wing is supposed to:
Fight rigid social & economic hierarchy — No
Support social equality — No
Secularism — No
Lack of a strong political leadership — No
Etc.
Take a look at Umbeto Eco's common features of fascism: cult of tradition, distrust towards modernism, doing over thinking, lack of critical thinking, nationalism, mythical foreign enemy figure, state of a permanent war, elitarism, heroism, male dominance, lack of an individualism, new language. Built on the back of a middle class — I'm not sure that this one fits. The rest 13 fit perfectly.
Right wing doesn't always mean prioritisation of an individual, private property rights etc. Some of right wing ideologies do, some don't, but it's hardly the most decisive feature in any of them.
You don't see the problem here? When talking about "right wing" you immediately jump to fascism, but your "left wing" is very much a mainstream version of liberalism.
Collectivism was at the core of Marxist-Leninist ideology and had HUGE (and dire) consequences on 20th century politics.
Anyway, don't mean to drag this out. Hope you don't take this as a personal attack either. My only worry is the prevalence of statements that nothing good comes from the right. This easily leads to very hostile conversations (as evidenced daily on social media). It's a good thing that there's some pushback against a very worrisome brand of neo-Marxist liberalism that is popular amongst some on the left.
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn!
I have added in your previous comments for context.
You seem to be of a view that a movement is independent of organisational structures. Those organisational structures are not bound by equality. Equality in legislation, equality in action.
You also seem to imply that through ’ do you think that you will achieve anything by casting a single wide net instead of having a multitude of movements” that it’s about me. Awesome, legislative context deleted, context deleted..
Your response is exactly why I question organisational behaviour.
Hey! You made the good point about the flaws of the transition from capitalism to communism, you deserve a mention.Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn!
Again I maybe castigate; the longer the knee goes in the longer it relegated other intersectionality to second class protected characteristics.
There is now a precedent for intersectionality. Sight impaired, hearing impaired, neurodiverss, poor, careers etc are all watching.
There is now a precedent for intersectionality. Sight impaired, hearing impaired, neurodiverss, poor, careers etc are all watching.
I'm sorry but this makes zero sense to me, I don't know what you are talking about.
Don’t know about that, mate.
I think it translates to something like “all lives matter”.
That's what he essentially said in his earliest post but after that I genuinely don't know what he is talking about or how he interprets simple sentences the way he does. I migh be illiterate.
It translates to do what you’re legislated to do, stop saying you’re supporting all when you’re not.
I read research, research, , practice equality and discuss issues within football and outside of football.
Whereas, what do you do?
During your extensive research, did you happen to do any reading on the Dunning-Kruger Effect?
Oh dear; cognitively. Cognitive is listening to reading for those.
Do you have a point?
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It doesn't help me understand what you are talking about or how you interpreted a simple point the way you did.
Precisely? Nothing at all.
BLM especially when a lot of yours mates who travelled with you in the 70s to 90s to away matches were black.
It's literally taking a political stance. You might respond that it's about justice and equality. But justice and equality are the essence of what politics is about. People watch/go to football, sports, whatever in part to get away from politics, from the everyday grind, from the bullshit. Therefore they do not want to be reminded of it when they settle down to watch 22 men kick a ball about. Calling everyone racist who does not want a political gesture made before a game is, I am absolutely certain, going to embed divisiveness rather than make the slightest difference to individual arseholes on twitter spouting racist abuse. And doing it in perpetuity is as wrongheaded as thinking a blind person wearing glasses will eventually see.
I don’t see a problem as fascism is a far-right political system, and North Korea is a fascist state. I don’t assume that every right-wing state is a fascist state.
You're putting forward the views of Brian Myers who also believes that NK is a fascist state in essence. He holds up what NK inherited from the colonial Japanese as part of his evidence. I agree with Myers that NK is racialist and mythocentric and its endgame is obviously to 'colonize' the whole peninsula. But to deny that it was always also collectivist, anti marketist, and in theory anti capitalist is to make a convenient argument. NK is a bastardized conundrum of ideologies that has about as much to do with the thread debate as your pube shaving habits.
Then the problem is that they are expressing their opinions.
Who is Brian Myers? edit: oh, found him. Originally my google search showed me a wrestler. From a quick overlook I tend to agree with him, yes.
But it's not collectivist. Their whole society is built to fend the needs of a privileged minority. Anti-capitalist — yeah, but all fascist states had a very unique approach to capitalism that doesn't really have a lot of similarities to a "traditional" capitalist economics. I absolutely agree with you on the latter point though
It is a clear difference. That you want to burry your head in the sand does not change that fact!
The rest of your post can do one, cause its looks like the rambling from a bitter mad man/women that's close to loosing it.
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Then I will say that those people need to grow up, and actually open their eyes. There is no such thing as getting away from the politics by escaping to sport.
Sport and politics have been linked for as long as two things can be linked.
How did Real Madrid and Barcelona become such an important football match historically? It’s not because of their success.
Why does playing England matter so much more for the West Indies cricket team and the India cricket team? It’s because of the colonial history and how much it matters to beat them.
Even our very own rivalry with Liverpool has just as strong roots in an economic and political rivalry between the cities as it does in both clubs being the two most successful.
You can’t run away from the connection between politics and sports, and my question is, why would you want to? As you said yourself, principles of justice and equality equate to politics, and justice and equality are not things we should ever seek to run away from. The only people who ever try to escape from the discussion about equality are those to whom things are unequally skewed in favor of.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...ck-lives-matter-shirts-degrading-b919545.html
Even Zaha agrees it's just ticking a box and nothing else. The original point was made there is no point to just continue kneeling if nothing is going to change. If a player thinks thinks they did their part by taking a knee then they are delusional. If you want to use your platform to fight racism you need to be doing a lot more than bending the knee. Now it's just becoming the norm to take a knee and it's taking away from the original point. When it becomes the norm it just starts to go unnoticed and that's taking away from the original point.
Commentators refer to it now as "the prematch knee" that is exactly why I am against taking the knee anymore because it's getting lost from it's original intent.
The wilful ignorance in this waffle is staggering.
Nothing this big completely change over night.
This thread, even though its on a very small scale, does raise awareness! Without the kneeling, this thread wouldn't even be here.
So ya, you are the one being delusional if you think players kneeling doesn't help raise awareness.
You do know Zaha isn’t the king of all black people?
When you say things like that, it reads similar to when people who say “well I have a black friend and he says he’s alright with it, therefore I am right.”
I agree you need to do more than just bend the knee. But that wasn’t the original point was it? The original point was ‘stop it, it’s pointless’. When in fact, it’s not pointless. It’s ridiculous because that seems to be the argument, yet there’s not one shred of evidence that tells us this simple gesture is creating hate.
Generally on this thread the majority of those who are bothered are the ones who don’t want to be reminded of bad things when they come out to watch a football match. That’s what it seems to boil down to.
Google it
So this is your piss poor response to the moving story I shared from ex footballer Kamara.
What do you mean "even Zaha"? Is that because he is a senior spokesperson on working towards racial equality. Or, more likely, just because he is black?
The old "look even one or two black people agree with me". It is hardly a representative sample.
Also, if you dive deeper into Zaha comments he is frustrated because racial abuse is still being allowed to happen, on social media for example, where people can create anonymous accounts and racially abuse players.
I think he is right, more needs to be done. The push for serious changes on social media accounts and police pursuing online racism needs to go much further. The first step in that happening is raising awareness and gaining momentum. Why not do more, rather than do less.
What do you propose is the best way to reduce racism in football, sport and in general in the wider community? Or does your answer to this problem amount to, stop taking the knee before football games?
And that's why I was saying on the previous page that 'leftist' and 'rightist' are too generalized. They're based on oppositions such as exist in US and UK politics, but those aren't universal. In this case, North Korean society seems to me on the right in its political (authoritarian) and social (conservative) aspects, and on the left economically (socialist).
I'll just arrogantly quote my own post again (good for my h index). I'll add that it might not be helpful to say there's a right and a left to all three aspects; but I'm basing myself on this common view of what generalized 'right' and 'left' stand for.
True that. More and more neo marxists/communists and tolerance only working where activists and left media ( vaaaaast majority of European ones) decide will fit an agenda. Nobody's talking about thousands of Christians being beheaded on a daily basis etc. Not convenient I guess.. Or profitable.
Yeah but he’s one of the properly dark ones and has a hairstyle like one of those rappers (you know the rappers they have now?)
Oh for feck’s sake.
Thousands beheaded on a daily basis ?? Where is that happening Sir ?
Is Black Lives Matter raising awareness of the Nigerians who are having their shops burnt down in South Africa, is it doing anything to help Sikhs and Muslims in India, or Christians in Pakistan? Is it doing anything to help native South American tribes? Is it helping Palestinians, Rohingas or Uhyngurs? We can keep banging on about the historic crimes of the British empire what will it solve? Only 20 years ago the U.K. invaded Iraq and over 500k civilians were slaughtered. You won’t hear many Iraqis blaming the average brit public for the crimes of the British government.
The racism suffered in the U.K. pales in comparison to what is going on elsewhere in the world.
I’ve seen videos of black guys getting randomly stopped for simply driving a nice car and it sucks. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN I’ve also I’ve seen obvious louts who happen to be black and are up to no good get stopped cry racism get all aggressive and then get arrested after the police find a knife on them.
Surely there has to be a more nuanced understanding. In areas of London with high street crime where most of the gangs are black it’s naturally black youths who act and dress a certain way that get stopped. In areas of Liverpool where it’s mostly white youths committing crime then it’s mostly white youths who act and dress a certain way that get stopped.
Whether we like it or not a lot of policing is carried out this way. It works.
Also we have a major problem with county lines. If police in some random town in Devon see a car registered in London driving around, it’s normal that they will stop after taking into consideration the ages of the people in the vehicle and probably also dress and look.
I don’t think Mexican cartel beheadings of civilians are in the 1000s daily. But you’re right over the past 10 years it is over 1000 beheaded.
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