James McClean: 'Does being abused for being Irish and anti Irish abuse acceptable?'

Status
Not open for further replies.

LilyWhiteSpur

New Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
12,370
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham
Making generalisations such as there is still a stereotyping of Irish people in English society?? Hardly a generalisation when it's true.
And what is McClean most famous for in England if not his stance on the poppy?
Every year there's a clamour in the press to string him up for refusing to wear one on his shirt, hell this thread only gets bumped every November or when he has a political view.
The thing is Irish people, nationalist or unionist stereotype themselves, it’s the dark humour we have here. It’s fine when it’s amongst ourselves but people seem to loose their shit when another country does it.
 

arnie_ni

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
15,093
Was it also funny seeing a Sinn Fien member posting a picture on Twitter with a Kingsmill loaf on his head and grinning? It’s fine lines here but most generally understand the limits. In the public eye you are going to draw more attention and should be sensible. Some of my friends calling me SS RUC won’t draw the same histeria and it’s a chuckle, would I post it opening of course not.
Getting of topic slightly but that was a total disgrace. He got of extremely lightly for that
 

tompo18

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
49
I think it the answer is to address the points brought up in the OP and not try and distract from difficult questions with whataboutism.
Yes I can see your point however it was not my intention.

I agree with most of what McLean says, there is no room for sectarianism anywhere.
 

Flexdegea

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
2,342
Haver you ever walked down the road and been asked to say the letter H?

I proper laughed at this :lol:


Only because it's ridiculous. I run out of posts for the day so couldn't reply earlier.


I'm from West Belfast, lived at a interface peaceline whatever you want to call it my whole life, seen most of it to see in Belfast, and trust Me the H thing is absolute ball, no one saying say H, like the oul one sing the sash :lol: You just saying that to try impress people not from Ireland as to how it is, when reality that a myth mostly even through their is slight logic in the H bit depending on area :lol:


You basically said why he working and living over England if he hates it, who said he hates it? It's like saying he should move out of Derry as well where he was born, because it's a 'british state'.........sure he doesn't like em ones too. All hyperbole.



Would respect people more if they just stopped saying stuff like my friends are from such and such side, it like saying one black friends etc, and just say why they really dislike McClean of beating about the bush :lol:


Not digging ya out lad you seem sound fella on here from reading your stuff over the years, but no need for the spin.
 

Eire Red United

New Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
2,723
Location
Ireland
Will it though? It’s not a loaded question? I’m genuinely curious as I know people whom are unionists that have left the past behind, at least from what I can see, but that may just kick things off again big time.
Yes and it won’t be long. I reckon you’ll always have the hardliners but the DUP are making thst much of a balls of everything, plenty of young people aren’t going to be rushing to protect their Union.

At the end of the day the UVF/UDA didn’t have the balls or the brains to do anything at the height of the troubles without British help, so I wouldn’t be too worried about the little scumbags who will run around whipping up trouble.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

New Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
12,370
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham
I proper laughed at this :lol:


Only because it's ridiculous. I run out of posts for the day so couldn't reply earlier.


I'm from West Belfast, lived at a interface peaceline whatever you want to call it my whole life, seen most of it to see in Belfast, and trust Me the H thing is absolute ball, no one saying say H, like the oul one sing the sash :lol: You just saying that to try impress people not from Ireland as to how it is, when reality that a myth mostly even through their is slight logic in the H bit depending on area :lol:


You basically said why he working and living over England if he hates it, who said he hates it? It's like saying he should move out of Derry as well where he was born, because it's a 'british state'.........sure he doesn't like em ones too. All hyperbole.



Would respect people more if they just stopped saying stuff like my friends are from such and such side, it like saying one black friends etc, and just say why they really dislike McClean of beating about the bush :lol:


Not digging ya out lad you seem sound fella on here from reading your stuff over the years, but no need for the spin.
I’ve said my post about McLean was tongue in cheek, and with regards the H thing. It certainly existed around my way when I was younger, I don’t really see how I am trying to impress anyone here. Don’t get me wrong I love where I am from but we are a bigoted backwater of a place that really hasn’t changed much over the years, no matter what some may think. We’re seeing it everyday now with Brexit and the border, if it wasn’t for the lockdown situation we would be seeing it much more.
 
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
13,122
Making generalisations such as there is still a stereotyping of Irish people in English society?? Hardly a generalisation when it's true.
And what is McClean most famous for in England if not his stance on the poppy?
Every year there's a clamour in the press to string him up for refusing to wear one on his shirt, hell this thread only gets bumped every November or when he has a political view.
so the press represent English society...

Get a grip.

the abuse he receives is not acceptable.

to then assume this is an indicator of a wider stereotype that exits everywhere is utter bollocks.

don’t take that as me defending people who abuse others, but don’t assume that’s how everyone reacts or thinks.

how about having a sensible discussion about it.

the vast majority of people don’t even know who he is.

perhaps it’s not a good idea to make sweeping statements based on a minority of idiot football fans.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

New Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
12,370
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham
Yes and it won’t be long. I reckon you’ll always have the hardliners but the DUP are making thst much of a balls of everything, plenty of young people aren’t going to be rushing to protect their Union.

At the end of the day the UVF/UDA didn’t have the balls or the brains to do anything at the height of the troubles without British help, so I wouldn’t be too worried about the little scumbags who will run around whipping up trouble.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, the anger is more directed towards the Unionist politicians, mainly the DUP, who have made mistake after mistake after mistake with regards to Brexit.
 

Flexdegea

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
2,342
I’ve said my post about McLean was tongue in cheek, and with regards the H thing. It certainly existed around my way when I was younger, I don’t really see how I am trying to impress anyone here. Don’t get me wrong I love where I am from but we are a bigoted backwater of a place that really hasn’t changed much over the years, no matter what some may think. We’re seeing it everyday now with Brexit and the border, if it wasn’t for the lockdown situation we would be seeing it much more.

Must be em Raskarkin boyz you strayed too far out of Ballymena hey Bai :lol:
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
The thing is Irish people, nationalist or unionist stereotype themselves, it’s the dark humour we have here. It’s fine when it’s amongst ourselves but people seem to loose their shit when another country does it.
That true.
Realistically this is true of majority of cultures and nations.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
so the press represent English society...

Get a grip.

the abuse he receives is not acceptable.

to then assume this is an indicator of a wider stereotype that exits everywhere is utter bollocks.

don’t take that as me defending people who abuse others, but don’t assume that’s how everyone reacts or thinks.

how about having a sensible discussion about it.

the vast majority of people don’t even know who he is.

perhaps it’s not a good idea to make sweeping statements based on a minority of idiot football fans.
Sorry, but of you don't feel that Irish people are stereotyped in England then you are massively mistaken.
If it's not being stereotyped as a terrorist, it's being stereotyped as a prancing leprechaun with a pot of fecking gold.

Now this can be true of alot of cultures and national backgrounds in this country, but when it comes to the Irish it's treated as a joke.

Does everyone in the country feel the same? No, course not, but there a large proportion that do. Just look at At Patrick's Day celebrations in your local spoons next time round.
 
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
13,122
Sorry, but of you don't feel that Irish people are stereotyped in England then you are massively mistaken.
If it's not being stereotyped as a terrorist, it's being stereotyped as a prancing leprechaun with a pot of fecking gold.

Now this can be true of alot of cultures and national backgrounds in this country, but when it comes to the Irish it's treated as a joke.

Does everyone in the country feel the same? No, course not, but there a large proportion that do. Just look at At Patrick's Day celebrations in your local spoons next time round.
well the last place I’m going is a Wetherspoons full stop, even less likely on St Patrick’s Day.

I’ll leave it here, as it’s not a discussion I want to get involved with. That’s not to say it’s not valid.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,888
well the last place I’m going is a Wetherspoons full stop, even less likely on St Patrick’s Day.

I’ll leave it here, as it’s not a discussion I want to get involved with. That’s not to say it’s not valid.
:lol:
Fair enough.
And I'll agree with you regarding Spoons!!
 

manutddjw

Full Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
3,695
Location
Canada
I think Keane mentioned the same thing that he was constantly called a gypsy and things of that nature while he was playing. I think his main point is that racism is racism regardless of colour. I’d imagine things like gypsy or sheep shagger is seen as banter and he thinks it should be treated as harshly as John Terry or the Suarez incident.
 

Deery

Dreary
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
18,590
Reading the comments he definitely divides opinion, a lot of people don’t like him..

 

Red00012

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
12,087
Reading the comments he definitely divides opinion, a lot of people don’t like him..

He’s not liked by the English because he doesn’t wear a stupid fecking flower on his jersey. Bunch of clowns who don’t understand what he went through living in Derry.
 

Ecstatic

Cutie patootie!
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
13,787
Supports
PsG
Sorry, but of you don't feel that Irish people are stereotyped in England then you are massively mistaken.
If it's not being stereotyped as a terrorist, it's being stereotyped as a prancing leprechaun with a pot of fecking gold.

Now this can be true of alot of cultures and national backgrounds in this country, but when it comes to the Irish it's treated as a joke.

Does everyone in the country feel the same? No, course not, but there a large proportion that do. Just look at At Patrick's Day celebrations in your local spoons next time round.
What are the prejudices and stereotypes about the Irish?
 

Relfy

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
799
The problem with the majority of this is a lack of education. I for one grew up and was schooled in England through the mid-90-00's was not taught about England's history in Ireland. I genuinely had very little idea of the scale of the oppression and damage that was caused. The Irish were and are still often painted as some caricature within society. Now when you take that into account many people cannot always immediately understand the position McClean took and the views he holds. I think where the abuse stems from is ignorance of the historical facts, and with a lack of knowledge or education on the matter, your typical football fan/keyboard warrior takes 'offense' and starts with the abuse. I truly believe that if the education system in England was corrected and told us of the atrocities we committed we would have a much broader understanding for why some people think we're dicks (to put it mildly), and any sensible people would see his views on the poppy and say that's fair enough without any further comment whatsoever. It shouldn't be a discussion point, and certainly not one that produces such heated debate.

No one deserves the level of abuse he has had to endure. Likewise, the likes of Tuanzebe and Martial are not deserving of their abuse. Social media companies must enforce ID registration for accounts sooner rather than later. It is the only way to firstly reduce such abuse, and secondly, to remove such people still intent on spouting it from the platforms.
 
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
13,122
The problem with the majority of this is a lack of education. I for one grew up and was schooled in England through the mid-90-00's was not taught about England's history in Ireland. I genuinely had very little idea of the scale of the oppression and damage that was caused. The Irish were and are still often painted as some caricature within society. Now when you take that into account many people cannot always immediately understand the position McClean took and the views he holds. I think where the abuse stems from is ignorance of the historical facts, and with a lack of knowledge or education on the matter, your typical football fan/keyboard warrior takes 'offense' and starts with the abuse. I truly believe that if the education system in England was corrected and told us of the atrocities we committed we would have a much broader understanding for why some people think we're dicks (to put it mildly), and any sensible people would see his views on the poppy and say that's fair enough without any further comment whatsoever. It shouldn't be a discussion point, and certainly not one that produces such heated debate.

No one deserves the level of abuse he has had to endure. Likewise, the likes of Tuanzebe and Martial are not deserving of their abuse. Social media companies must enforce ID registration for accounts sooner rather than later. It is the only way to firstly reduce such abuse, and secondly, to remove such people still intent on spouting it from the platforms.
interesting debate on here recently about ID requirements for social media use. The majority were against it if I remember.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
35,216
Location
xG Zombie Nation
You used to hear 'Paddy' stereotypes and jokes when I was younger about the Irish beng thick and/or lazy but I personally haven't heard comments like that for most of my adult life. I think bigots have other targets now.

Irish gypsies on the other hand still face heavy prejudice. I think it's the prejudice that goes most unchallenged in this country by far.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.