This thread in a nutshell:
There is never a justifiable reason for racist abuse but.... and then proceed to try and justify it.
There is never a justifiable reason for racist abuse but.... and then proceed to try and justify it.
James McClean: 'Does being abused for being Irish and anti Irish abuse acceptable?'
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You're missing the point here dude.
Name you another?
How about Niall Quinn being spat in the face while carrying his daughter and told to feck off back to Ireland.
How about all the shit Kevin Kilbane had chanted at him.
Or Neil Lennon receiving death threats and bullets sent in the post.
Or David Meyler just saying he’s been too afraid to say anything on the topic out of fear he’ll receive the same threats.
What about Patrick McClean just today being told that burning his house down with his family inside wouldn’t be enough. They’d actually rather tie them all to chairs and burn Patrick alive while his family are forced to watch and then burn them all.
Your ignorance isn’t reality.
I'm not an expert on this, you sound like you are.
Were most of these to do with Celtic/Rangers shit?
Yeah well, ye created Eastenders , coronation street so that’s a far horrible crime.
Are you seriously disregarding entirely how offensive that picture of himself was?
He posted it with a sentence alluding to the fact he was 'giving his children an education' whilst wearing the baraclava. Clearly insinuating he was educating his children in the ways of the IRA, we know his political leanings so the picture can only be interpreted in this way, pretending it wasn't offensive is pathetic really.
You have to factor in just how offensive that would be to many people. Shame he doesn't practice what he preaches and affords others the courtesy of not offending them, in the same way he's so clearly pedantic about traditions not affecting his feelings.
He doesn't deserve death threats but in all honesty what would expect the response to be exactly? In this age of faceless trolls, celebrities are targeted for absolutely nothing, let alone something like that.
This, basically.
Hes being told he deserves it because he's uppity, lets be honest about this
You’re not an expert but yet still feel the need to claim it doesn’t happen to other people and it’s all actually McClean’s fault? How about educate yourself next time before coming in with your uneducated stupid opinions.
Only one of those has any connection to Celtic so, no. I don’t see how that’s relevant anyway, the abuse doesn’t count if they play for Celtic? I guess they bring it upon themselves as well.
Don't get so emotional.
My point being I've never heard any of those stories. I've just Gooogled them and literally nothing, you've taken my comment personally and I'm not sure why?
It's not uneducated if isn't reported.
Why cant he educate his children on the IRA and even troubles as a whole?
I never could understand this thinking. Its ok to be a republican! The balaclava has a huge significance (sadly) in NI on both sides.
If its not ok to be a republican there would be no peace process. The IRA in NI came about because the south abandoned northern catholics after partition and the unionists plus British government were butchering them on a daily basis. The IRA came about as protection for those catholics.
Theres a lot if history to be passed down and labeling it as IRA history does it a massive disservice.
I understand this from hardcore Unionists, even moderates over here roll their eys at this sort of thing but this little englander outrage is hysterical to be honest. It automatically goes to he and his beliefs are immediately extreme and in the wrong.
It's a symbol. A symbol that many find offensive.
Much in the same way that the Poppy is symbolic for those who lost their lives, particularly in WW1 and WW11. But as a symbol it's offensive to Mcclean. Which is a topic all of it's own because the vast majority only see the poppy as a mark of respect for the ones who lost their lives protecting us. Mcllean uses the small print that apparently states it represents all conflicts. Fair enough, he want's to make a point of that. The point stands that the baraclava is symbolic of the troubles and he knew what he was doing was offensive.
Would you wear a swastika and post it online? Then come here and argue that the swastika actually predates Nazi germany and was first used thousands of years ago and had positive connotations? No of course you wouldn't.
Claim anti-Irish sentiments don’t exist and then say don’t get emotional?
Google Patrick McClean, David Meyler, Neil Lennon and it’s the first bloody things that come up. It is uneducated when you can’t even use google properly.
Taking it personally, yea I wonder why Irish people take it personally when their family have been abused and killed and then told it doesn’t happen and James McClean deserves it.
Jersus Christ (and I mean that exasperated not religiously)
They don't come up his stats come up and that he retired and his instagram and that Celtic fans think Lennon is shit.
If you go looking for it, I've no doubt you'll find it.
I'm out of this thread it's all gone pear shaped
Is this victim blaming? Sounds like it
It is good that this story appears to be gathering momentum in the UK. Its gone on far too long
You might want to do your research on what those same soldiers who fought in WW1 did in Ireland mate.
He thought it would be funny and was very apologetic about it afterwards. Whether or not he intended to offend and or hurt people depends on the interpretation of his comments. He mentions the incident here:
https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/james-mcclean-balaclava-instagram-1151732
James McClean does not deserve the level of abuse he receives. He's done silly reactionary things, but I don't blame him in all honesty. If you received the abuse he did, would you not feel temptation to react?
Everything began when he didn't wear the poppy. Why would he? British soldiers murdered innocent people in his home town. It's his decision and anyone who educates themselves on the matter will see why. McClean has been getting horrible abuse ever since he took that decision. People point to the picture of the balaclava which was silly, however it was also only last year. He's been getting abuse since 2012.
Nemanja Matic does not wear a poppy. Since he made that decision was he subject to the abuse McClean received? Absolutely not. What's the difference? Bear in mind this abuse started before McClean even did/said anything else.
People say well what about the other Irish players who do not receive abuse? Well it's their decision to not wear a poppy. However if they refused to wear one, it'd be all over the media and they would be on the receiving end of abuse. David Meyler said himself. He was afraid to speak out because he seen the threats aimed at McClean's family.
Everything began when he didn't wear the poppy. Why would he? British soldiers murdered innocent people in his home town. It's his decision and anyone who educates themselves on the matter will see why. McClean has been getting horrible abuse ever since he took that decision. People point to the picture of the balaclava which was silly, however it was also only last year. He's been getting abuse since 2012.
Nemanja Matic does not wear a poppy. Since he made that decision was he subject to the abuse McClean received? Absolutely not. What's the difference? Bear in mind this abuse started before McClean even did/said anything else.
People say well what about the other Irish players who do not receive abuse? Well it's their decision to not wear a poppy. However if they refused to wear one, it'd be all over the media and they would be on the receiving end of abuse. David Meyler said himself. He was afraid to speak out because he seen the threats aimed at McClean's family.
The loyalist hit squads that were funded by the British government that helped kill their own civilians and cover it up wore balaclavas as well. Its not a specific symbol owned by one side and theres no reason to pretend it is plus James isnt racially abusing you sending death threats because you are refusing to wear a balaclava.
The IRA, as bad as both sides were, werent nazis for feck sake. The British government massacring their own citizens would fall into the nazi camp rather than a terrorist organistion would, dont you think?
This is the thing, NI peace process has allowed us all who live over here to accept others views like this and not overreact. If anytjing James falls into the moderate type of nationalist. I was talking to a man in passing every morning where I first moved to here. 2 months in my Brother in law points him out to me and says dont talk to him, hes the man the UDA sends to kill people. The whole town knows who he is yet catholics arent crossing the street hiding when he walks here. Its a sort of that dickhead over there type of thing. He still goes to pubs and drinks (while we could!) theres no avanalance of death threats sent to an actual piece of murdering scum.
Only the extreme, trying to make a point type of people are angry over James views and even more so be so hysterical that they send him death threats. Youd constantly be outraged from both sides that it would just be exhausting.
First week here for me fell on July 12. I walked past a group of people spitting on my flag and setting it up at the top of the pallets to burn alongside pictures of nationalist politicians. So when little Englanders look over some tweets in a country that they never visited and become faux outraged with not so disgused views that he deserves it then its not worth listening to.
You might as well come over and racially abuse 50 percent of the NI population if you think James was asking for it.
I admire the patience of some of you. Calmly responding to each ignorant buffoon who staggers into the thread, doesn't bother to read the few pages before and vomits out the same bollocks wisdom he feels nobody has thought to mention before him.
I have some sympathy for the likes of @InLevyITrust or @Can7onA who just don' know or care enough to educate themselves better. But @RUCK4444 comes in here every day, has read all the comments, the nonsense and the clear, calm explanations as to why these arguments are bollocks, and he still feels the need to repeat the same shite day in, day out.
A couple of days ago I said that some must struggle with the cognitive dissonance of their opinions regarding Ireland and the troubles, but Ruck I don't think you grasp enough for it to even register. The fact you belittle the idea that McClean might want to "make a point of the poppy representing all conflicts", while at the same time demanding that everyone else accept the balaclava as the symbol of the bad guys in the troubles says a lot. The fact that you with a straight face and genuine confidence in your beliefs, tell us all that it is the IRA who were the Nazis of the Britain/Ireland situation says it all.
These are the type of people who think that Raheem Sterling deserves to be racially abused because he has a tattoo of a gun and guns have been used to kill people in gang violence. The type of people who think rape victims deserved to be raped because the skirt they were wearing proved they were asking for it. Only they don't share those opinions in public because enough education of those issues has permeated their skulls for them to know it's unacceptable. The education they received regarding the history of Britain and Ireland was a very different story.
I have some sympathy for the likes of @InLevyITrust or @Can7onA who just don' know or care enough to educate themselves better. But @RUCK4444 comes in here every day, has read all the comments, the nonsense and the clear, calm explanations as to why these arguments are bollocks, and he still feels the need to repeat the same shite day in, day out.
A couple of days ago I said that some must struggle with the cognitive dissonance of their opinions regarding Ireland and the troubles, but Ruck I don't think you grasp enough for it to even register. The fact you belittle the idea that McClean might want to "make a point of the poppy representing all conflicts", while at the same time demanding that everyone else accept the balaclava as the symbol of the bad guys in the troubles says a lot. The fact that you with a straight face and genuine confidence in your beliefs, tell us all that it is the IRA who were the Nazis of the Britain/Ireland situation says it all.
These are the type of people who think that Raheem Sterling deserves to be racially abused because he has a tattoo of a gun and guns have been used to kill people in gang violence. The type of people who think rape victims deserved to be raped because the skirt they were wearing proved they were asking for it. Only they don't share those opinions in public because enough education of those issues has permeated their skulls for them to know it's unacceptable. The education they received regarding the history of Britain and Ireland was a very different story.
Stoking the fires?
He made a choice not to wear a poppy due to his personal experiences and background and then gave a perfectly acceptable explanation as to why. He did absolutely nothing wrong and got vile abuse for it.
The balaclava picture, read the thread.
Worth noting that Kevin Kilbane recently said in regards to the poppy "I like most Irish players over the years would chose not to wear one but out of respect to club and supporters just went with it".
So when you're asking "name me another Irish footballer that gets shit?" you also have to ask if they would continue not to get shit if they chose not to wear a poppy, as their natural inclination would be not to? Or do they just not get shit because they keep their heads down? Because if it's the latter then it's still a problem, as there should be no obligation on them to wear a poppy if they don't want to get abuse.
Also telling from one of his team mates as to why he didn't speak out in support of McClean:
So when you're asking "name me another Irish footballer that gets shit?" you also have to ask if they would continue not to get shit if they chose not to wear a poppy, as their natural inclination would be not to? Or do they just not get shit because they keep their heads down? Because if it's the latter then it's still a problem, as there should be no obligation on them to wear a poppy if they don't want to get abuse.
Also telling from one of his team mates as to why he didn't speak out in support of McClean:
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I've read the thread. The abuse started with the poppy incident which was before the balaclava thing.
And like I said, dickheads are going to be dickheads, don't make it easier for them on the very same platform you are complaining about receiving abuse via.
Like I said, I'm out, it's going round in circles. I'll try and make it simple and take out all religious/ethnic/racist connotations.
Don't cry when you receive abuse through a platform you yourself use and post inflammatory pictures on.
Man, the IRA have legitimate reasons as to why they were formed, why you think I would think anything less is sheer fantasy, as for Nazis, WTAF. My post about why Mclean would play his trade in England was totally tongue in cheek as I said after, its simply something that I here commented a lot. As for your comments on rape victims and racists, the mind boggles.
The Nazi comment was in direct reply to Rucks post asking would someone wear a swastika and not you. I think that was clear from my post but apologies if not.
As for the other comments, victim blaming is victim blaming - some of you don't think it matters as much if it's blaming an Irish/Republican victim and some of us do.
It's care, I don't care, the religious conations don't interest me, I couldn't care less.
It's the hypocrisy I'm pointing out. But you keep on with slinging uneducated accusations about, making out that it's because I don't understand the history. What you're not getting is, I don't care. It's the simple fact he's moaning about something he uses to spread messages himself.
So the people who died in WW1 came back and committed atrocities in Ireland?
The Poppy is a symbol of both remembrance for the dead and hope for a peaceful future. The people who lost their lives, mere kids at that, deserve to be remembered and the symbol for doing exactly that should not be bastardised into something else to prove a point (no matter how valid the cause may be.)
Of course it matters, I dont see how i was victim blaming though, McLean has the same right as anyone else not to wear the poppy. I don't wear one anymore, apart from the Sunday as its just been used politically by both sides.
I can recall being at a Spurs match a good few seasons ago and the guy behind me was giving Robbie Keane a shit load of abuse, with plenty of raciest abuse. I had no problems telling him to knock it on the head, not that it done much good, he continued with the abuse just without reference to Robbie being Irish.
Jesus Christ indeedJersus Christ (and I mean that exasperated not religiously)
They don't come up his stats come up and that he retired and his instagram and that Celtic fans think Lennon is shit.
If you go looking for it, I've no doubt you'll find it.
I'm out of this thread it's all gone pear shaped
First result on Patrick McClean
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bel...news/james-mcclean-opens-up-vile-19856506.amp
Learn how to use google.
If you look into it you’ll find it. Aye, but if you stick your head in the sand like yourself then you can claim it never happens and blame it on James McClean.
Yes, please leave this thread with your absolute garbage.
For some. For others it symbolizes something quite different.
Maybe someone needs to remind these people that the POTUS is an Irish man, we basically rule the world..
Give up. I have my opinion and you have yours. Trouble is mine is balanced and your's isn't. To basically call me a racist is an absolute disgrace and shows your limited intellect to engage in conversation without labelling people. Read my posts I've repeatedly backed the league in allowing the taking of the knee to continue and pointed that it's a symbol against all forms of discrimination.
I used the swastika as an example of a symbol, a symbol that many are offended by. I never once compared the IRA to Nazi Germany, I pointed out that symbols are interpreted by each person differently. In fact I also pointed out that this is exactly what Mcclean is doing when he rejects the symbol of the poppy. Instead of responding like an adult you've basically called me a racist.
Myself (and nobody for that matter) has said it's ok for Mcclean to be racially abused or threatened. In fact I've repeatedly said that that is totally unacceptable.
I get his Wikipedia page and the transfer stats pages, then a few down it mentions him talking about his brother.
The breaking news at the top for him is where he's talking about his brother, you know why cuz his brother is in the fecking news currently.
Don't fall off your high horse, not everyone follows the abuse of Irish footballers as much as you, it's probably why you get those searches higher up in your browser, that's how Google works.
For millions and millions around the globe. Majority of which have lost love ones.
I 100% agree in remembering the poor souls who had their life's thrown away in the horrors of WW1 for absolutely nothing but an exercise in imperialism by Europe's major powers. However the poopy was bastardised long before Mclean or any of us waded into this conversation. It is no longer a symbol just for WW1, but all conflicts the British army have been involved in since. A symbol of nationalism and the continued British atrocities in many countries since WW1. Would it make you feel different about this if you realized the poppy appeal financially contributes to the same monsters who shot unarmed civilian's in your home town? Where never prosecuted and covered up by your own government? The poppy long lost it's connection to the tragedies of WW1 and has been somehow turned into a nationalistic symbol supporting British wars. I genuinely believe if you brought back some of those WW1 fighters they would be sickened by the poopy appeal and what it stands for now. Nothing but a nationalistic symbol for the gammons to rally around each year proclaiming about how great little old England is.
feck do they raise them stupid in Wales.
Insulting another member
You’re looking for news, try hitting the news tab.
The breaking news for him is him getting sent death threats literally today. You don’t know how to use google or read apparently.
I don’t need to be on a high horse because you’re so uneducated.
Not everyone claims abuse doesn’t exist when they have no idea what they are talking about, unfortunately some people like yourself are too thick to understand that concept.
Yeah I agree on the bolded. I've said it's Mccleans decision to make, I've aired my opinion on the Poppy, I don't get weighed down with the political side of the argument on it, I purely see it as a symbol for remembrance of those who gave their lives. It's what it was designed for and what I consider it to be used for. If people don't want to wear it fine, that's their decision, I've said so multiple times but a few here only latch onto something that can offend them and then proceed to make sure it does. Doesn't allow much balance in the argument though does it.
It’s the first article on google news.
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