Our 2nd best centre back?

Bastian

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I've seen a similar thread on our midfielders, but I keep seeing people suggesting different partnerships for our centre back pairing, some even suggesting Bailly and Lindelof who under Jose had an absolute mare together, needing Fellaini in front of them to deal with any aerial challenges that teams would try to exploit against the pair.

Now, I like Bailly (not Baly, Bally, Bailey...) but he is rash and enormously injury prone. He's got the recovery pace to deal with Maguire's total lack of pace, but he's also got the mad in him. Lindelof is composed and a good player, but lacks the physicality of a centre back and is bullied in the air - and most importantly, doesn't have the recovery pace to compliment Maguire. I was rather hoping Tuanzebe would be the one to step up, but last season he had a terrible time with injuries and now seems to be fourth in the pecking order. Jones is perma-injured and doesn't need to be considered of course.

For those who accept that Maguire is our best defender - which doesn't mean a) he was worth 80m b) he should be captain c) he's world class - who is the best of the rest and, who compliments him best?

And what type of defender do people want to see brought in to partner him in the summer? What are the most important characteristics and attributes?

(side note: how has Mengi looked for Derby? Has he played?)
 

el3mel

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I mean, why "our 2nd best" and not "our 2 best defenders"? I'm pretty sure it's not universally agreed here that Maguire is our best defender. Some even think it's Baily (regardless of my opinion on this).
 

JakeC

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I've seen a similar thread on our midfielders, but I keep seeing people suggesting different partnerships for our centre back pairing, some even suggesting Bailly and Lindelof who under Jose had an absolute mare together, needing Fellaini in front of them to deal with any aerial challenges that teams would try to exploit against the pair.

Now, I like Bailly (not Baly, Bally, Bailey...) but he is rash and enormously injury prone. He's got the recovery pace to deal with Maguire's total lack of pace, but he's also got the mad in him. Lindelof is composed and a good player, but lacks the physicality of a centre back and is bullied in the air - and most importantly, doesn't have the recovery pace to compliment Maguire. I was rather hoping Tuanzebe would be the one to step up, but last season he had a terrible time with injuries and now seems to be fourth in the pecking order. Jones is perma-injured and doesn't need to be considered of course.

For those who accept that Maguire is our best defender - which doesn't mean a) he was worth 80m b) he should be captain c) he's world class - who is the best of the rest and, who compliments him best?

And what type of defender do people want to see brought in to partner him in the summer? What are the most important characteristics and attributes?

(side note: how has Mengi looked for Derby? Has he played?)
Watched him in the last game, he was played as a wingback which is not his position at all. He done OK. Derby are playing Forrest tonight with Garner on the opposite side, so definitely one to watch.

I think this question has been answered, if Bailly wasn't made of glass, he'd be starting ahead of Lindelof. If Lindelof wasn't a carbon copy of the lion from The Wizard of Oz, he'd be close to world class.
 

Bastian

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I mean, why "our 2nd best" and not "our 2 best defenders"? I'm pretty sure it's not universally agreed here that Maguire is our best defender. Some even think it's Baily (regardless of my opinion on this).
I'm being spiky here for a bit of fun. I subscribe to the view that Maguire is clearly our best defender.
 

Tarrou

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Shaw is our best defender if we're including full-backs

this thread will just turn into a whinge-fest about Maguire

But my pick would be Bailly
 

Bastian

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Watched him in the last game, he was played as a wingback which is not his position at all. He done OK. Derby are playing Forrest tonight with Garner on the opposite side, so definitely one to watch.

I think this question has been answered, if Bailly wasn't made of glass, he'd be starting ahead of Lindelof. If Lindelof wasn't a carbon copy of the lion from The Wizard of Oz, he'd be close to world class.
Yikes. That's no good. Playing 3 at the back and he can't get a game as a centre back :(
 

Raveneye

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Maguire is our second best defender assuming everyone is fully fit. But if he's the best, then Bailly would be second best. It's easier to find a CB in Maguire's mould, even if he is elite in some respects within that mould, than it is to find a CB like Bailly.
 

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This thread is why we definitely need to sign a new CB this summer. In a roundabout way we are admitting we don't have a partnership that is good enough and therefore with the team determined to make it Maguire plus 1 we need to identify the best possible partner for the Captain. I do personally rate Lindelof higher than the other options but I would probably sell him to fund his replacement as he is easily the most saleable asset at the back and has a good reputation in Europe so a decent fee could be generated.

Bailly and Jones would be tough to shift and so they are probably going to end up as reserve/rotation options for us which I would be ok with, Jones has become a bit of a joke figure but he is actually far better than current perception and can certainly be used for cup games etc. to rest our starters once he is fit again. I like Mengi and Bernard but they are not ready and Tuanzebe could use a year on loan at another premiership club to see if he can kick on like his supporters believe he can.

Now all we need is a lightning quick, never injured, aerially dominant left sided CB and because of the pandemic can we get him for less than 50m please. Any ideas?
 

JakeC

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Yikes. That's no good. Playing 3 at the back and he can't get a game as a centre back :(
He's struggled to get into the side, only 2 league appearances since joining.
 

bsCallout

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Bailly is the perfect partner to both of them but as we know we bought a faulty item that doesn't work all the time.
 

Bastian

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This thread is why we definitely need to sign a new CB this summer. In a roundabout way we are admitting we don't have a partnership that is good enough and therefore with the team determined to make it Maguire plus 1 we need to identify the best possible partner for the Captain. I do personally rate Lindelof higher than the other options but I would probably sell him to fund his replacement as he is easily the most saleable asset at the back and has a good reputation in Europe so a decent fee could be generated.

Bailly and Jones would be tough to shift and so they are probably going to end up as reserve/rotation options for us which I would be ok with, Jones has become a bit of a joke figure but he is actually far better than current perception and can certainly be used for cup games etc. to rest our starters once he is fit again. I like Mengi and Bernard but they are not ready and Tuanzebe could use a year on loan at another premiership club to see if he can kick on like his supporters believe he can.

Now all we need is a lightning quick, never injured, aerially dominant left sided CB and because of the pandemic can we get him for less than 50m please. Any ideas?
I do wonder - much as it is great for balance - whether the requirement they be left-footed is the be-all and end-all. It certainly leaves a lot less options. I am quite fond of Upamecano, who is by no means perfect and has flaws to iron out, but for his age he is extremely promising, and certainly physically dominant and has pace and composure. Gone to Bayern on the cheap. I wouldn't have not gone for him because he's right-footed.
 

Gandalf

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I do wonder - much as it is great for balance - whether the requirement they be left-footed is the be-all and end-all. It certainly leaves a lot less options. I am quite fond of Upamecano, who is by no means perfect and has flaws to iron out, but for his age he is extremely promising, and certainly physically dominant and has pace and composure. Gone to Bayern on the cheap. I wouldn't have not gone for him because he's right-footed.
Upamecano was pretty determined to go to Bayern so I don't think we were in with a shout there. I am not too bothered about the left-footed thing but I keep seeing stories that Ole wants a left footer there, in part because they want to switch Maguire to the right where they believe he is more comfortable. Not too sure it makes all that much difference but then Ole is clearly better at this than me.
 

MetoTTT

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I mean, why "our 2nd best" and not "our 2 best defenders"? I'm pretty sure it's not universally agreed here that Maguire is our best defender. Some even think it's Baily (regardless of my opinion on this).
Maybe because he's Ole's guy, captain (?!) who cost 80 mil and wouldn't be dropped so he'll play when fit. So the question is who to play with Maguire at CB.
 

GueRed

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Bailly. Apart from his recklessness I quite like him too.

Unfortunately he's a crock.

Hence why (and Lindelof being average) we need to bring in a top centre back this summer.
 
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Up for grabs. Frankly there is no one good enough.

lindelof for consistency would get the nod. Doesn’t matter how much talent you have, if you can’t get on the pitch regularly and be relied upon - you don’t make the cut. Rules out Bailly, Tuanzebe and of course Mr Jones!
 

Ali Dia

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On his good days, possibly. Problem is, he's not consistant.
You cant be consistent when you’re rarely fit. I think it’s gone beyond a coincidence now nearly every time he eventually gets up to speed we tighten up and look a lot more aggressive in our defending. He’a got all the attributes to be a class player but he’s a bit of a nutter and he’s obviously injury prone.
 

anant

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Lindelof's floor is higher than Bailly's, however, Bailly's ceiling is higher than Lindelof. The thing is Bailly can give you a 8 or a 9/10 performance, but he's equally capable of giving a 2 or a 3 as well.

As far as partner for Maguire is concerned, it would be Bailly, but that would be only because of the recovery pace rather than anything else.
 

Andersons Dietician

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2nd best CB, Shaw easily.

Bailly has good attributes and moments and is great at correcting mistakes. But he’s not what I would class as an elite CB. His defending is somewhat Bi-polar and can go from sublime to ridiculous minute to minute in game. I just don’t see how anyone can build a defence around someone like that when they have no consistency whatsoever and thats not even looking at the injury record.

Lindelof not sure what it is with him, much like Bailly can have games and moments when you think Ok ok looks good. Then all of a sudden turn to trifle. I think he reads the game better and has a better understanding of a CB’s job than Bailly but he just looks again somewhat average.

Honestly I don’t even think Maguire is that much better than either but he’s consistently average which is probably better than going from fantastic to woeful every other week and he’s always available. At 80 mil we are stuck with him and at that price he’s not getting benched unless we find some worldy bargains.

Now I’ve been all for Konaté pre Maguire, but the more I watch Maguire and realise he isn’t the best organiser or that great at leading has changed my mind. I’m now thinking we need an experienced old hand to lead Maguire. Tell him what to do and where to be and so on.

As much as I admire the leadership I’ve seen from Konate previously I doubt he’s going to come in and just insert himself ahead of Maguire as the leader of our defence.

Ive always thought the notion of Sergio Ramos nonsense and in many ways I think he is vastly Overated but he’s the sort of character we need. Someone who is going to take ownership of that defence. Problem is there are very few like that around.

Final thought, and this is outhere. If Dias and Stones are now Cities numero uno pairing, maybe Laporte fancies looking elsewhere.
 
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Random Task

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Bailly has the ability but is unreliable, Lindelof reads the game well but is poor in the air and prone to bedwetting, and Tuanzebe is your basic run-of-the-mill CD who will end up at Stoke or somewhere like that.

Short answer: Probably Bailly, but he's lacking both in terms of fitness and a functioning brain. Thus not reliable.

We need to invest in a new CB to partner Maguire, preferably one with pace and mobility to burn.
 

Rood

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Maguire is the best and Bailly is next but too injury prone to be reliable

Lindelof is a good squad player but we need better as a regular starter

Axel should have had more chances to see if he can step up but seems Ole is not convinced by him
 

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Lindelof. Bailly looks good but we need to see him for a consistent run of matches.
 

Bastian

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Maguire is the best and Bailly is next but too injury prone to be reliable

Lindelof is a good squad player but we need better as a regular starter

Axel should have had more chances to see if he can step up but seems Ole is not convinced by him
Yeah, I've been surprised that he's not really featured, but still on the bench (so not injured). He was pretty outstanding in Paris. Who knows...
 

Amir

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You cant be consistent when you’re rarely fit. I think it’s gone beyond a coincidence now nearly every time he eventually gets up to speed we tighten up and look a lot more aggressive in our defending. He’a got all the attributes to be a class player but he’s a bit of a nutter and he’s obviously injury prone.
I think Bailly's ceiling, as a young player, was higher than any of our centerhalves. He's a little rash, always was, even when he enjoyed periods of playing consistently. Obviously injuries massively obstructed his improvement, including better judgement.
 

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I think Bailly's ceiling, as a young player, was higher than any of our centerhalves. He's a little rash, always was, even when he enjoyed periods of playing consistently. Obviously injuries massively obstructed his improvement, including better judgement.
whats craziest of all about him is for a youngish guy I don’t think his level has fluctuated all that much from his initial good run in the team. Yes he’s had some rash moments.....

If he was injury free for the last few seasons then who knows what level he’d be by now. with the injuries he's most likely only ever going to be a rotation player at a bigger club and despite being a useful player it wouldn’t be majorly surprising to see him quietly written off and sold if he picks up another bad injury during a good run of form.
 

Amir

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If he was injury free for the last few seasons then who knows what level he’d be by now. with the injuries he's most likely only ever going to be a rotation player at a bigger club and despite being a useful player it wouldn’t be majorly surprising to see him quietly written off and sold if he picks up another bad injury during a good run of form.
Without the injuries, and good coaching, I think he would have been one of the best around.

I'm not sure how much was can depend on him, due to him being injury prone. A backup player isn't much use if he's out when you need him.
 

Water Melon

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I do not think Maguire is the best central defender we have. He is the most expensive one and the slowest one. Captaincy-wise, the same level as Ashley Young. Ideally, a fit Bailly cements his spot as a starting defender, while the second spot is up for grabs between sub zero and the tanker.