Seems unlikely that a top level club would just write off a season though.
63% of Liverpool squad "asthmatic" - any substance to this article?
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No wonder City are back after taking last season off.
Must be struggling in the cold weather.
Could you imagine if this is what happened? A huge scandal
Or maybe, in the richest sport in the world, there actually is something untoward going on?
I mean the Barcelona doctor all but said the Spanish teams were at it but got told to keep his mouth shut by the court.
It's unlikely that one team is doing something so incredible, that no other team is.
Not off a couple of good years being the sole evidence.
I am sure they are not alone but that's how it works across many sports, and even outside sport. Everybody does it but every now and then somebody has a breakthrough that allows them to get an advantage, until it gets banned or the others catch up.
So you'd agree that nothing illegal is going on if so? In competitive, professional sports, success is in the details when the margins are that small.
It's a well known fact that certain cycling teams are using ketones and others are not, for example. Nothing wrong with that. The difficult part is to stay ahead of the pack while they're trying to catch up.
This is from September:
http://backpagefootball.com/why-liverpool-wont-win-the-premier-league-this-season/126313/
I was going to post that yeah. Doesn't even need to be the dodgy stuff, just superdosed caffeine and painkillers. Seeing as that article's from September, it's remarkably prescient.
I'd be amazed if it wasn't going on. Do you remember Leicester's running stats for example? Or the Russians in 2018 where a team of cyborgs would have struggled to keep up with them.
Everybody wants an edge and as soon as one crosses the line, everybody else has to or they fall behind. Pretty much every other sport has been blighted by it so i sincerely doubt football hasn't, and when you get these outlier seasons they are prime candidates. That's how they often catch them in cycling.
Was caffeine supposed to be code for something else or was he actually talking caffeine?This is from September:
http://backpagefootball.com/why-liverpool-wont-win-the-premier-league-this-season/126313/
I know caffeine is a stimulant but I was under the impression you could be banned for taking too much of it, pretty sure you can in Athletics. Maybe that's not the case in football and they let you have as much as you want?
Jamie Vardy's 262 cans of redbull a day say its pretty legal.
conspiracy theories are kinda annoying tbh.
Absolute chaos when it emerges we've been doping and we're still a bit shit.
So big I think it would actively be covered up by the FA. Basically like how Nadal can't be touched in tennis despite a lot of people coming forward and linking him to doping.
I do hope City get busted it for it one day, purely for the "Ped Guardiola" headline.
The number of people involved in top flight football is too big for proper systematic doping to not be uncovered. There's plenty of ex Premier league players who are skint in the lower leagues who could do a tell all. Or academy players, parents, agents, hangers-on of all sorts.
A medical exemption for Asthma can lead to legitimate use of Clenbuterol, which improves cardio performance as a bronchodilator by relaxing the smooth muscles of the airways. It is also a diuretic, and has the side effect of fat loss and lean muscle gain. Furthermore it is a fairly effective masking agent of other banned substances, hence its ban. Micro dosing of EPO for example is only detectable in the blood or urine for a very short period after use but has huge performance benefits. Clenbuterol acting as a diuretic causing expedited flushing of the urine, and masking in the blood.
Clenbuterol affects all smooth muscle, which includes the heart. Potentially leading to cell death and heart damage. Hence the need not to abuse it for sustained periods.
Even EPO though is from the old generation of drugs. Athletes are using substances like GW1516 now, which persuade the body to send more oxygen to the muscles. It’s been known to cause cancer in rats, hence it was never brought to market, but of course found a way onto the PED market, snd is very hard to detect. Asthma drugs obfuscate the entire detection picture of PEDs.
In a picture where any sporting entity has a disproportionately high percentage of athletes using medical exemptions from Asthma, the organisation is highly likely to be either seeking to take advantage of the slim benefits of the asthma drug itself, or using it as a masking agent for more powerful PEDs.
Clenbuterol affects all smooth muscle, which includes the heart. Potentially leading to cell death and heart damage. Hence the need not to abuse it for sustained periods.
Even EPO though is from the old generation of drugs. Athletes are using substances like GW1516 now, which persuade the body to send more oxygen to the muscles. It’s been known to cause cancer in rats, hence it was never brought to market, but of course found a way onto the PED market, snd is very hard to detect. Asthma drugs obfuscate the entire detection picture of PEDs.
In a picture where any sporting entity has a disproportionately high percentage of athletes using medical exemptions from Asthma, the organisation is highly likely to be either seeking to take advantage of the slim benefits of the asthma drug itself, or using it as a masking agent for more powerful PEDs.
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Guys,
from reading through this it seems quite a lot of you are missing the point.
Liverpool have not done anything illegal. No doping.
What they have done is, have their players see a doctor, complaining of breathing problems or lung problems and then be diagnosed asthmatic. (This is obviously unethical, maybe the player is in on it, maybe not. Maybe the doctors are in on it, who knows?) Either way, Liverpool have an astonishing number of asthmatics at their club. And this asthmatic number only came about under Klopp. But I stress, it is nothing illegal. A player being diagnosed asthmatic. That's all it is. We could all be diagnosed asthmatic; certainly if we knew how to offer the appropriate symptoms of asthma to a doctor, or especially if the doctor is already primed to diagnose us as asthmatic.
Anyway, once diagnosed asthmatic, you are then prescribe a drug. This drug is allowed in professional sport, certainly in football. If you are diagnosed asthmatic, you can take this drug.
What Liverpool have then done is - again - this is all legal, unethical, yes, but all within the lines of legal - the players take their asthma pill an hour before kick-off. The player then takes a certain dose of caffeine, either through an edible or drink. Again, as you know, caffeine is legal. So are the pills, if you're asthmatic.
The cocktail of these pills and caffeine gives players extra physical energy over short bursts. Up to an hour of almost two times your natural physical energy (though it varies human body to human body depending on height and weight; though these doctors have the perfected doses set up per body type at the club so that the almost two times normal energy lasts for 45-minutes. Then they dose up on another 45-mins of caffeine at half-time. Again, all totally legal. Unethical, yes. But legal nonetheless.
Now, the human body can handle the asthma pills regularly and daily for many years. The human body can not, however, handle the cocktail of the caffeine with the pills for many years. They say this should be cycled every three years, otherwise there would be major risks of heart-failure. It'd be a bit like having a can of Redbull every day for three years. At some point your heart will go: 'what the feck?'
Anyway, just wanted to point it out as I see a lot of confusion over this issue.
from reading through this it seems quite a lot of you are missing the point.
Liverpool have not done anything illegal. No doping.
What they have done is, have their players see a doctor, complaining of breathing problems or lung problems and then be diagnosed asthmatic. (This is obviously unethical, maybe the player is in on it, maybe not. Maybe the doctors are in on it, who knows?) Either way, Liverpool have an astonishing number of asthmatics at their club. And this asthmatic number only came about under Klopp. But I stress, it is nothing illegal. A player being diagnosed asthmatic. That's all it is. We could all be diagnosed asthmatic; certainly if we knew how to offer the appropriate symptoms of asthma to a doctor, or especially if the doctor is already primed to diagnose us as asthmatic.
Anyway, once diagnosed asthmatic, you are then prescribe a drug. This drug is allowed in professional sport, certainly in football. If you are diagnosed asthmatic, you can take this drug.
What Liverpool have then done is - again - this is all legal, unethical, yes, but all within the lines of legal - the players take their asthma pill an hour before kick-off. The player then takes a certain dose of caffeine, either through an edible or drink. Again, as you know, caffeine is legal. So are the pills, if you're asthmatic.
The cocktail of these pills and caffeine gives players extra physical energy over short bursts. Up to an hour of almost two times your natural physical energy (though it varies human body to human body depending on height and weight; though these doctors have the perfected doses set up per body type at the club so that the almost two times normal energy lasts for 45-minutes. Then they dose up on another 45-mins of caffeine at half-time. Again, all totally legal. Unethical, yes. But legal nonetheless.
Now, the human body can handle the asthma pills regularly and daily for many years. The human body can not, however, handle the cocktail of the caffeine with the pills for many years. They say this should be cycled every three years, otherwise there would be major risks of heart-failure. It'd be a bit like having a can of Redbull every day for three years. At some point your heart will go: 'what the feck?'
Anyway, just wanted to point it out as I see a lot of confusion over this issue.
Thanks for paraphrasing the article in the OP. I didn’t get it the first time I read it.
It's quite an interesting article and I am definitely of the opinion that doping is going on in professional football.
But the fact that it's come from a Russia based sports journalist tells me all I need to know about the motivations.
But the fact that it's come from a Russia based sports journalist tells me all I need to know about the motivations.
So basically the OP?
Yes but he wrote a book on it. That's just an excerpt.
Pretty much, and I've now learned to read long (ish) threads from the beginning.
How do you explain lance?
Don't worry, this will soon turn into an Ole thread as well
Joy. They're the best. Damn Ole, I bet he's got them on Nescafe and Vicks.
Ole had us on quaaludes for Palace but timed it so we'd come up for the City game.
That’s just poor coaching!
Howled
This is such a weird article.
Getting anything published is easy, as there are many «pay to publish» journals out there that will publish pages of literal nonsense as long as you pay them. Getting published per se, does not lend credence to what you are publishing. See, for example, this article https://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/60.full. It's taken 5 (!) years to allegedly publish this article he mentions in the first paragraph, which is an absurd amount of time. He also fails to mention in which journal he's getting published. I cannot find the article on PubMed nor on any preprint servers I've searched, so "first quarter of 2021" doesn't seem likely.
The section on how 'pool cannot win the PL this season, because they cannot "overdose again on caffeine because of the side-effects", is bizarre. He links to a Healthline article about caffeine side effects as a back up of his above claim. Is he trying to say that Liverpool players will get anxiety from drinking coffee for a third season in a row? He then says that the amount of caffeine needed to win the league would cause a slew of injuries, linking to a review article summarizing overuse injuries in sport. Which is all fine and well, but the overview article does not mention caffeine and he does not provide any links between overuse injuries and caffeine.
He concludes with "It’s impossible to do three seasons in a row without players collapsing from cardiovascular issues". This might be true, but considering he's a sports journalist, who's an expert on caffeine and its uses and side effects in football, he provides disappointingly little data to back up all his claims. I'm sure he will provide a convincing scientific argument in his academic article, whenever that is published.
Its really difficult to draw any conclusions at the moment because there is a lack of non-circumstantial evidence. Saying "Liverpool used the same XI every week for two years, playing a high intensity system and with no injuries." is absolutely try, but unfortunately just confirmation bias.
I would like for a proper deep dive into the topic to be done. Some big exposé that confirms (or disproves) some of these allegations.
To simply laugh the whole thing off as conspiracy theories is just naive. We have heard doctors from other leagues coming out and basically confirming some of this sort of stuff. We have also witnessed first hand the rise of "sports science" over the last decade or two. We have literally seen Jamie Vardy - the 30something year old who still has incredible energy and pressing - quaffing cans of red bull constantly. Again, its all circumstantial, but there is enough to go by that it merits investigation.
I would like for a proper deep dive into the topic to be done. Some big exposé that confirms (or disproves) some of these allegations.
To simply laugh the whole thing off as conspiracy theories is just naive. We have heard doctors from other leagues coming out and basically confirming some of this sort of stuff. We have also witnessed first hand the rise of "sports science" over the last decade or two. We have literally seen Jamie Vardy - the 30something year old who still has incredible energy and pressing - quaffing cans of red bull constantly. Again, its all circumstantial, but there is enough to go by that it merits investigation.
I always used to think that was snot and that he’d gozzed all over himself before the game.
See, this is why Ole will never be a top coach. Klopp and Pep aren't afraid to win by any means necessary.
I think all this is pretty obvious.
Players are instructed to play right to the edge of the law on field, why do we expect a difference off the field. The FA would also never highlight unethical substance misuse which would draw a tabloid shit storm whilst teams in Europe are abusing the same substances with less regulation.
Players are instructed to play right to the edge of the law on field, why do we expect a difference off the field. The FA would also never highlight unethical substance misuse which would draw a tabloid shit storm whilst teams in Europe are abusing the same substances with less regulation.
There are several incidents of academy players being given injections whereby they have no idea what they are.
There are also several ex players who have said similar. Cascarino's claims were laughed at, ther were several players allowed to play despite testing positive for PED's, the sevret footballer even alluded to this in his articles.
There are also several high profile 'doctors' who have since said that they have administered PEDS or equivalent thereof on high profile professional players.
The players will go along with what their club want - hence the Liverpool players not having an issue with using asthma medicine despite not having any symptoms of asthma!
Why would an ex player want to bring the whole sport into disrepute and be a pariah of both the sport and of football fans?
United use smelling salts before games, quite a lot of clubs do, however United certainly are one of the more high profile teams to do it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/dangerkidsbooks?lang=en
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/authors/alan-moore/
That's the author. He spends a lot of time accusing non-Russian athletes of doping. He also spends time defending Russian athletes accused of doping.
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/authors/alan-moore/
That's the author. He spends a lot of time accusing non-Russian athletes of doping. He also spends time defending Russian athletes accused of doping.