That’s the spirit!
By this time next week we could be out of all cup competitions
- Thread starter esmufc07
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City have won 3 FA cups and 5 League cups in that period, so to be honest your arguement doesn't hold much water. There was a commentator the other day who mentioned it took United winning the League Cup to then go on and win the league.
Winning things shifts the mentality.
Come on, we haven’t even lost the games yet! Both will be tough but there’s no doubt this team is good enough to progress in both ties. We’ve done well in the league so far, no one can doubt that, especially after our poor start and lack of pre-season. Let’s have some positivity! I’d absolutely love us to win one of these cups.
Winning things can shift the mentality, but you have to build upon the mentality and momentum. United as a whole didn't do that after Jose's year one winning and year two 2nd place finish. Then it went to complete shit.
City continued to build their squad. United haven't been able to consistently build a squad that isn't dependent on manager style. The recruiting the past 8 years has been truly awful and with no consistent purpose or requisite of minimum quality.
Or we could still be in all the cups? Why this negativity. At least let us drop out first then we can start to bitch.
None of that demonstrates that winning these small cups isn't important. It shows you have to continue building on success. Which you are right, we didn't do.
It didn’t take United “winning a League Cup” it was sheer coincidence and/or a result of the fact we were starting to develop a good side.
Do you honestly think the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic, Edwin van der Sar, Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo needed to “win a League Cup” in order to “gain a winning mentality”?
It’s nonsense
Not sure it’s nonsense. Huge backlash after winning feck all in 2005 followed by a CL group stage exit and FA Cup exit to Liverpool in 2006. Who knows how we would have dealt with the massive pressure from Chelsea in 2007 if we weren’t just going for our first title in 4 years but our first trophy in 3.
League Cup gave that squad something to start with. We could have been nearlymen in 2007 and 2008 if it wasn’t for that.
People can downplay the cups all they want but the reality is the night we win any kind of trophy is always a great night that leaves me buzzing for few days, regardless of it being the League Cup or CL.
The night we won EL in 2017 was just a great night. I really hope we pull it out again this year because I miss the celebrations.
The night we won EL in 2017 was just a great night. I really hope we pull it out again this year because I miss the celebrations.
It would be a fantastic experience for this young team to win a trophy. Builds a winning mentality regardless of which competition it is.
What counts as building a winning mentality then?
Do players who won youth leagues (u16, u18s) build winning mentality?
Do you build a winning mentality by winning other leagues? Like if a player wins the Swedish 2nd Division or the Iranian 3rd Division do they build a winning mentality?
What about if I win the Community Shield? Do I build a winning mentality?
Why didn’t Arsenal, Wigan or Portsmouth build a winning mentality after they won the FA Cup?
Why didn’t Leicester collapse due to their lack of winning mentality the season they won the league?
Why did Utd collapse and lose a 9pt lead to City in 2011/12 despite having loads of “winning mentality”
Its nonsense. Its just more rubbish pundits trot out. It can’t be measured and therefore it’s non-Science...or in other words nonsense
Do players who won youth leagues (u16, u18s) build winning mentality?
Do you build a winning mentality by winning other leagues? Like if a player wins the Swedish 2nd Division or the Iranian 3rd Division do they build a winning mentality?
What about if I win the Community Shield? Do I build a winning mentality?
Why didn’t Arsenal, Wigan or Portsmouth build a winning mentality after they won the FA Cup?
Why didn’t Leicester collapse due to their lack of winning mentality the season they won the league?
Why did Utd collapse and lose a 9pt lead to City in 2011/12 despite having loads of “winning mentality”
Its nonsense. Its just more rubbish pundits trot out. It can’t be measured and therefore it’s non-Science...or in other words nonsense
Please can we give up with this Poch love in?
Yeah, if the Glazers don´t want to spend any money, Ole must be punished.
Exactly. Not to mention next season, if we lose all games. Ole must go.
Knowing our luck, we’d get past AC Milan and Leicester then we’d draw Spurs/Arsenal in the EL quarters and City in the FA Cup semis.
As Offside said.
You have to have that mentality you are in it to win it in every competition, if we fail again that is another season these players couldn't win anything. Pep puts out strong teams in all comps for a reason.
That league cup was the sign that that team could win things. And no doubt they got a taste and wanted to win a lot more than that trophy.
Yeah, will add up nicely to a couple of top 4 finishes and an UCL final silver medal.
Honestly it depends on the exits
Team vs Chelsea
Team vs Leipzig(beat them 5-0 prior)
Team vs Chelsea
Ddg
Bailly Maguire Lindelof
AWB Fred matic Williams
Fernandes
James Rashford
Team vs SevillaBailly Maguire Lindelof
AWB Fred matic Williams
Fernandes
James Rashford
DDG
Awb Lindelof Maguire Williams
Pogba Fred
Greenwood Fernandes Rashford
Martial
Very respectable team, I just remember being annoyed about the first sub coming in the 84th minute or something.Awb Lindelof Maguire Williams
Pogba Fred
Greenwood Fernandes Rashford
Martial
Team vs Leipzig(beat them 5-0 prior)
Ddg
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Awb Mct Matic Telles
Fernandes
Rashford Greenwood
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Awb Mct Matic Telles
Fernandes
Rashford Greenwood
In theory you make sense but in reality a few of those players have spoken about how important that cup win was.
Debby downer huh?
I’m not on board with the negative mentality of the OP.
Of course bad things can happen. Every time we take a seat on an airplane it could be our last day alive, yet planes will always board.
You play the game of life or football knowing you could lose. What alternative is there but to step onto the pitch, bravely, knowing you could fail? There is nothing to be gained by speculating about the prospect of defeat when the very point of United’s existence (apart from enriching its owners) is to win trophies.
Of course bad things can happen. Every time we take a seat on an airplane it could be our last day alive, yet planes will always board.
You play the game of life or football knowing you could lose. What alternative is there but to step onto the pitch, bravely, knowing you could fail? There is nothing to be gained by speculating about the prospect of defeat when the very point of United’s existence (apart from enriching its owners) is to win trophies.
It's not really the perceived inability to win a trophy that bothers me, it's the performances we put in each time that resulted in getting eliminated.
You can lose to City in a semi final easily, especially in the midst of heavy fixture congestion, so I'm not particularly fussed about the League Cup exits. But we didn't even try to beat Chelsea in the FA cup last season, the team sheet was defeatist and we looked mentally beaten from kick off. Sevilla was slightly better, but we were still shit at either ends of the pitch. Then we have the games against Leipzig and Istanbul this season which were just embarrassing. Embarrassing from a tactical point of view for Leipzig and an effort and work rate point of view against Istanbul.
So if we crash out of both cups again this season, whilst playing like we did in the first leg against Milan, that's pretty much going to cement my view that Ole is never going to be getting us anywhere close to trophies and we're wasting our time persisting with him.
You can lose to City in a semi final easily, especially in the midst of heavy fixture congestion, so I'm not particularly fussed about the League Cup exits. But we didn't even try to beat Chelsea in the FA cup last season, the team sheet was defeatist and we looked mentally beaten from kick off. Sevilla was slightly better, but we were still shit at either ends of the pitch. Then we have the games against Leipzig and Istanbul this season which were just embarrassing. Embarrassing from a tactical point of view for Leipzig and an effort and work rate point of view against Istanbul.
So if we crash out of both cups again this season, whilst playing like we did in the first leg against Milan, that's pretty much going to cement my view that Ole is never going to be getting us anywhere close to trophies and we're wasting our time persisting with him.
People will always moan about something, long as we get more points in the league than last season and top 4, preferably 2nd it will be fine, looking at how our strikers have let Ole down this season if we win anything it'll be a miracle
The trophy for us this season is a top 4 place.
Can see us getting beat in the EL (if we get that far) final by Spurs in a boring 1-0 Jose snore fest.
We wont win the domestic cup either imo.
Hope for second place and see what happens in the summer transfer market, my take is we will do the same as last year, chase a big name player all summer and panic buy in the last week, expect EW to come out and say “we can do what other clubs only dream of”
Can see us getting beat in the EL (if we get that far) final by Spurs in a boring 1-0 Jose snore fest.
We wont win the domestic cup either imo.
Hope for second place and see what happens in the summer transfer market, my take is we will do the same as last year, chase a big name player all summer and panic buy in the last week, expect EW to come out and say “we can do what other clubs only dream of”
You can be sure something like that would happen.
Winning trophies is an absolutely essential part of forming a winning mentality. Other part being eradicating complacency. When you win a trophy, it gives you confidence. It shows you can do it when it matters the most. What would we call Pochettino if he never wins a trophy? What did Jose call Arsene, despite the latter getting his team finish top 4 quite regularly? If you ever played football at least on semi pro you understand that winning cups does bring winning mentality. This is exactly why Real Madrid did a miracle under Zidane in CL. They performed when it mattered the most. Under Ole we have crumbled in all competitions when the stakes were high. A win against City means sweet fook all if you finish the season empty handed. Ask any fan if they take finishing 3rd or 4th in the prem with EL cup or finish second only behind City and brag about doing one over every other team bar the noisy neighbours. Ask every player what would they take.
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Where would the fun in that be? Better to get the pitchforks ready and entertain stupid hypothetical what-ifs like this thread
I think we can win all the cups in the competitions we are in actually. We are so inconsistent that all we need is our form to be good in once off games to progress.
This time next year we might be out of the CL 
This thread honestly.
Let's take it for what it is, a way to justify an opinion that Ole is not the man for the job. Lots of posts saying if we're out we're out and he's a failure. If we do win a few trophies then it counts for nothing because winning mentality is a myth. (Utter bollocks that one by the way) Damned if he does, dammed if he doesn't.
Then you get the next gem that looks beyond these two trophies. 'If the board don't back him, might as well sack him and get Poch' What if the board do back him to their maximum for him or any manager e.g we get two decent players in the summer. City could still go out and get Messi on a 'free and sign two more players to make the gap even bigger. Is that fair or level playing Field. Another belter, Pep takes every competition seriously and fields a strong team. Of course he does he has two full starting XIs yet Ole gets criticised for not rotating.
Some people's confirmation bias, no matter what development Ole makes is farcical. Progress is there, no doubt about it, more can be done bit there is progress
Let's take it for what it is, a way to justify an opinion that Ole is not the man for the job. Lots of posts saying if we're out we're out and he's a failure. If we do win a few trophies then it counts for nothing because winning mentality is a myth. (Utter bollocks that one by the way) Damned if he does, dammed if he doesn't.
Then you get the next gem that looks beyond these two trophies. 'If the board don't back him, might as well sack him and get Poch' What if the board do back him to their maximum for him or any manager e.g we get two decent players in the summer. City could still go out and get Messi on a 'free and sign two more players to make the gap even bigger. Is that fair or level playing Field. Another belter, Pep takes every competition seriously and fields a strong team. Of course he does he has two full starting XIs yet Ole gets criticised for not rotating.
Some people's confirmation bias, no matter what development Ole makes is farcical. Progress is there, no doubt about it, more can be done bit there is progress
I used to think that way, I thought when we won FA Cup under LVG, EL & EFL Cup under Mourinho, it would shift the mentality of our young players at that time. And here nothing has changed.
However, you could be right since this season competition in EL & FA Cup are much much tougher than when we won them under LVG & Mourinho. Playing against Crystal Palace & Everton in FA Cup Final & Semi Final was nothing compare to teams Liverpool, Man City, Leicester and Chelsea. While Rostov and Anderlecht look cute compare to Sociedad and AC Milan. Winning them this season will be much bigger accomplishment than when we won them under LVG & Mourinho and the impact for our players mentality could be different as well.
I am beyond furious with Solskjaer for this thing that hasn't happened.
Or we could still be in them both!
To be fair, we got rid of LVG when he won something, we don't know if that would have sparked something(I assume not), and with Mourinho, we didn't support him once he had won something.
The important thing is to invest when we are making progress, not dwell and go back to square one.
Mourinho was backed with much more money than what Ole has been given so far. The objective is obviously the league, and right now we are showing progress in the league not declining compare to LVG & Jose. However, if we can add that progress with winning something this season especially when the competition are much tougher compare to previous seasons, it will be a very positive sign for next season for our mentality.
The idea of having a winning mentality is absolutely not a myth. Some people cope better with pressure or can push themselves harder in the face of adversity than others in all walks of life. That's a fact. You can also 'teach' a winning mentality, I don't doubt that either.
The idea that you somehow gain a winning mentality from winning a League Cup or even an FA Cup is what I am disputing.
You use the term 'confirmation bias' in your post...well this idea about winning a cup and it being the trigger for a period of success demonstrates both confirmation bias and survivor bias.
Of course, if you're good enough to win any trophy (whether it's the League Cup, FA Cup or Europa League) then it's likely that you're a pretty decent football team, at least at some level, and therefore it stands to reason you might then win other trophies as well.
Likewise, people point to the example of United winning a League Cup under SAF as the trigger for us then going on to win Premier League titles and European titles. What about the thousands of players who won something once and then never won anything again?
What about the thousands of players who had never won anything before and then won a major trophy?
So I repeat...the idea that winning some tin-pot cup blesses a squad of players with some kind of mystical 'winning mentality' is rubbish. There's no evidence for it, it can't be measured, it can't be quantified or qualified and it's retrodictive, not predictive. So it's nonsense.
Rene Meulensteen also said this in an interview on SSN after we were knocked out in the EL last year.
All he really had going for him was his ability to manage his way out of imaginary situations that haven't happened, and he doesn't even do that right anymore.
Nice baiting thread