Donny van de Beek

Of course he wants to leave we've basically signed him under false pretences and wasted a year of his career.

Whether he's good enough long term for us is almost irrelevant, he's certainly good enough to have played way more than he has. Has he even played 3 games back to back?

I don't think it's crossed some people's minds that keeping your subs happy is a prerequisite if we want a bigger squad because players won't come to sit on the bench. Thankfully we've got Hannibal and I think he'll take VDBs spot.

AgentSmith said:

If you look at our normal starting XI this year the ones in bold probably would’ve been binned off if we’d based their future at the club on their first year:

De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
McTominay Fred
Greenwood Bruno Rashford
Cavani​

Click to expand...

Shaw had a flying start in his first season until he broke his leg. A bit rash at times, but quite good.

Matthew84! said:

Sell him or give him and Lingard to West ham for Rice, could always swap him for Sancho, anyone that we actually need I'd be ok with,

Click to expand...

This isn't football manager ffs. A player that's been phenomenal in the CL won't be interested in West Ham.

romufc said:

Yes lets blame the coaches but there is a player with 16 PL goals playing in CAM. Are fans really suggesting dropping him for Donny? If so, I have no words to those fans.

Click to expand...

No one suggested dropping Bruno. How about you read the thread you're in?

Smores said:

Of course he wants to leave we've basically signed him under false pretences and wasted a year of his career.

Click to expand...

I can't understand this mindset. What promises do people think were made to him? Unless Donny is completely delusional he knew full well he wasn't coming in to replace Pogba or Bruno and in no reality did Solsjkaer tell him anything different. His best chance to win a starting spot for this season was to displace either Fred or McTominay but I don't believe for one second he was promised he would be an automatic starter, he needs to earn it just like any other player at the club.

You can argue over minutes but the fact is he played in 26 games in just over half a season and made 11 starts. If you go back and watch those performances objectively he was a level below the players he is trying to replace. This season lacked a true pre season or friendly games and of course that had an impact on his preparedness but that in no way means he should be gifted a spot in the side when we are trying to win games, the team is picked on merit. It is on Donny to grasp his opportunities when they are given to him and his body of work to date clearly shows that he has not been able to do so. If he is now agitating to leave then it suggests he lacks the mental makeup to succeed here, he would hardly be the first Ajax star to fail in the PL or the first big money signing we have made who has wilted under the pressure.

I do hope this is just tabloid nonsense though. With a year under his belt and a probable return to normality next season including a real pre season I hope that he can kick on as there is clearly a good player in there.

LovelyLittlePanda said:

Shaw had a flying start in his first season until he broke his leg. A bit rash at times, but quite good.



This isn't football manager ffs. A player that's been phenomenal in the CL won't be interested in West Ham.



No one suggested dropping Bruno. How about you read the thread you're in?

Click to expand...

That was his 2nd season.

I think we are all being presumptuous on the latest news - where is it stated he wants out? It seems clear he's an Ole signing, and I can only guess either 1) he needs more time to adapt and/or 2) he was signed for next season, but we pounced early noting Tottenham's interest in the summer.

We'll find out soon enough if he's still with us and still doesn't get a look in.

What is his injury? He doesn’t play yet he’s already out for quite a long time. I don’t blame a manager who doesn’t play a player who constantly hides from the ball

SATA said:

What is his injury? He doesn’t play yet he’s already out for quite a long time. I don’t blame a manager who doesn’t play a player who constantly hides from the ball

Click to expand...

Can you evaluate on this?

AgentSmith said:

That was his 2nd season.

Click to expand...

OOPS! Good catch. I still recall disagreeing with the sentiments around and thought he was quite okay, certainly better than the other bolded players and the shitshow that was Fred's first season.

SATA said:

What is his injury? He doesn’t play yet he’s already out for quite a long time. I don’t blame a manager who doesn’t play a player who constantly hides from the ball

Click to expand...

Calve injury I think. Fairly typical to be out this amount of time with a muscle injury.

VP89 said:

Can you evaluate on this?

Click to expand...

He's not entirely wrong, he was playing like a striker in his last (cup or EL?) game Just sat in the box waiting to get the ball (that never came). We were playing on the oppo's half, but he rarely showed for the ball deeper. Maybe he was too hungry for a goal? Or more likely, lack of confidence. He definitely wasn't hiding in his earlier appearances, just failed to make an impact. I wouldn't have used the word "constantly".

LovelyLittlePanda said:

He's not entirely wrong, he was playing like a striker in his last (cup or EL?) game Just sat in the box waiting to get the ball (that never came). We were playing on the oppo's half, but he rarely showed for the ball deeper. Maybe he was too hungry for a goal? Or more likely, lack of confidence. He definitely wasn't hiding in his earlier appearances, just failed to make an impact. I wouldn't have used the word "constantly".

Click to expand...

That's what I refer to, he is not constantly hiding.

I also don't think he hid in the game you refer to either. He is a player who is used to quicker football and flourishes in a possession based set-up. He is not conditioned in his style to hide from play. Sure he recycles the ball quickly to a square player, whereas Bruno might carry the ball before hitting a risky pass, but this is a style factor.

What VDB lacks in obvious creativity (like an eye of the needle through-ball or over the top), he offers in off the ball movement and quick interchanges. There are actually many moments during games (such as the one you refer to) where his runs were just ignored. You can see him pointing to his feet in pockets in between defences, but our players were just used to feeding it wide to the left toward Shaw/Rashford each and every time to whip a ball in. Only Matic tried to find him by way of a central piercing pass. McT and Fred dont' trust themselves with central passes as much, or they are just too used to defaulting to finding that left wing to get behind teams. I think VDB himself had an unimpactful game but I don't think he was by any means bad in that performance.

In the last game, everyone was off the boil, it wasn't just VDB. He's shown in deeper roles that he has a lot of potential for us, Leipzig, the Southampton game, the first Palace cameo and Istanbul return fixture come to mind. It annoys me when people fail to see his attributes and lazily claim he just hides every game.

Gandalf said:

I can't understand this mindset. What promises do people think were made to him? Unless Donny is completely delusional he knew full well he wasn't coming in to replace Pogba or Bruno and in no reality did Solsjkaer tell him anything different. His best chance to win a starting spot for this season was to displace either Fred or McTominay but I don't believe for one second he was promised he would be an automatic starter, he needs to earn it just like any other player at the club.

You can argue over minutes but the fact is he played in 26 games in just over half a season and made 11 starts. If you go back and watch those performances objectively he was a level below the players he is trying to replace. This season lacked a true pre season or friendly games and of course that had an impact on his preparedness but that in no way means he should be gifted a spot in the side when we are trying to win games, the team is picked on merit. It is on Donny to grasp his opportunities when they are given to him and his body of work to date clearly shows that he has not been able to do so. If he is now agitating to leave then it suggests he lacks the mental makeup to succeed here, he would hardly be the first Ajax star to fail in the PL or the first big money signing we have made who has wilted under the pressure.

I do hope this is just tabloid nonsense though. With a year under his belt and a probable return to normality next season including a real pre season I hope that he can kick on as there is clearly a good player in there.

Click to expand...

I just don't think he's been given a fair shot at any stage something which every player will expect as a senior player.

His premier league minutes are a joke as is using that 26 games figure. 10 of those are less than 20 minutes, that's not meaningful and just stat padding.

We all know he hasn't got a run to show his worth. People can argue he didn't show enough in limited minutes but that's what you say of a youngster not a senior. It's not too much to ask and we'll need to use our squad better going forward.

Gandalf said:

I can't understand this mindset. What promises do people think were made to him? Unless Donny is completely delusional he knew full well he wasn't coming in to replace Pogba or Bruno and in no reality did Solsjkaer tell him anything different. His best chance to win a starting spot for this season was to displace either Fred or McTominay but I don't believe for one second he was promised he would be an automatic starter, he needs to earn it just like any other player at the club.

You can argue over minutes but the fact is he played in 26 games in just over half a season and made 11 starts. If you go back and watch those performances objectively he was a level below the players he is trying to replace. This season lacked a true pre season or friendly games and of course that had an impact on his preparedness but that in no way means he should be gifted a spot in the side when we are trying to win games, the team is picked on merit. It is on Donny to grasp his opportunities when they are given to him and his body of work to date clearly shows that he has not been able to do so. If he is now agitating to leave then it suggests he lacks the mental makeup to succeed here, he would hardly be the first Ajax star to fail in the PL or the first big money signing we have made who has wilted under the pressure.

I do hope this is just tabloid nonsense though. With a year under his belt and a probable return to normality next season including a real pre season I hope that he can kick on as there is clearly a good player in there.

Click to expand...

I can't understand this mindset. How can you say that he played 26 games while in fact it's an average of 40ish minutes per game and of that only 24 mins on average in the BPL(over 13 games). Besides why else would he leave Ajax. It's not like went here knowing he'd play as little as he has so far. Sure he probably wasn't promised a starting spot. But atleast a lot more chances that he has now. Because why else would he live a comfortable starting XI spot while playing CL football every year. If he wanted to get the same minutes he has now, he would've left Ajax a bit earlier.

Gandalf said:

I can't understand this mindset. What promises do people think were made to him? Unless Donny is completely delusional he knew full well he wasn't coming in to replace Pogba or Bruno and in no reality did Solsjkaer tell him anything different. His best chance to win a starting spot for this season was to displace either Fred or McTominay but I don't believe for one second he was promised he would be an automatic starter, he needs to earn it just like any other player at the club.

You can argue over minutes but the fact is he played in 26 games in just over half a season and made 11 starts. If you go back and watch those performances objectively he was a level below the players he is trying to replace.

Click to expand...

Ah the wikipedia stat? If so that includes national appearances, and given how sporadic he's been given his chances, I think context helps here:

He's made only 2 Premier League starts and accumulated something like 311 minutes in the Premier League, which is under 3.5 matches (PL minutes from https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/donny-van-de-beek/leistungsdaten/spieler/288255).

There should be a big buffer given for players who 1) come from a different country and 2) adapting to a big club like ours, but in his case, there needs to be additional consideration given he's 3) played a bulk of his minutes in the league off the bench where it is very difficult to develop match rhythm.

There are examples where he has not been good, there are examples where he has been good. Objectively speaking, I did not expect VDB to make a huge impact, I don't rate him as highly as a player when he was at Ajax either. However I do think he has strong potential, and by way of a box-to-box player he can develop into a better option than what we see from McT or Fred. And yet he features behind both, which I did not appreciate. Whilst not having played on the right, I think the way we play with a narrow right sided midfielder rather than an out-and-out winger, he could have been given opportunities there too. His skill-sets are not limited to just being a 10.

Promises would have certainly been made by the manger not in granular "you will play x games" but by way of his status in the squad. It's evident Ole did not sign him under the pretence that he'd make 2 league appearances and league minutes barely equalling 3 matches. So I do feel, promises were broken. I'm not exploding at Ole for it, because it's the nature of the game but I do heavily sympathise with the player. But I don't think VDB needs to replace anyone per say, but his standard is actually equivalent to or greater than the minutes he's been trusted with.

Gandalf said:

This season lacked a true pre season or friendly games and of course that had an impact on his preparedness but that in no way means he should be gifted a spot in the side when we are trying to win games, the team is picked on merit. It is on Donny to grasp his opportunities when they are given to him and his body of work to date clearly shows that he has not been able to do so. If he is now agitating to leave then it suggests he lacks the mental makeup to succeed here, he would hardly be the first Ajax star to fail in the PL or the first big money signing we have made who has wilted under the pressure.

I do hope this is just tabloid nonsense though. With a year under his belt and a probable return to normality next season including a real pre season I hope that he can kick on as there is clearly a good player in there.

Click to expand...

Don't think anyone is insinuating he should be gifted spots, but I think his qualities certainly warrants more starts than he's given. I think Ole was likely planning to bring him into the fold in the final 3rd of this season, forward planning into this season, but he got injured at a bad time. Ole didn't really introduce Greenwood in a run of games until the second half of last season, he had a long period where Dan James was not turned to before bringing him back too. There are phases Ole seems to work with regarding younger talent, and I wouldn't be surprised if the approach was cautious with VDB.

I'm unsure whether I am being too presumptuous on my side here, but my guess is Ole knows he has a very good talent but also a player accustomed to a style of play that can't suit the team yet. He needs VDB to adapt to his direct counter attack style, but ultimately also needs to adapt to him as the long term project for the club is to dominate games in possession too.

So as you said, there is clearly a good player there and he should kick on next season, I hope!

Smores said:

I just don't think he's been given a fair shot at any stage something which every player will expect as a senior player.

His premier league minutes are a joke as is using that 26 games figure. 10 of those are less than 20 minutes, that's not meaningful and just stat padding.

We all know he hasn't got a run to show his worth. People can argue he didn't show enough in limited minutes but that's what you say of a youngster not a senior. It's not too much to ask and we'll need to use our squad better going forward.

Click to expand...

So because he is a senior player he should be picked ahead of players who are performing better than him? I don't even understand what fair has to do with it. Ole wants to win and frankly needs to win, if VDB gave him a better shot to do that then he would have played a lot more but you don't get to be picked in the starting XI because your feelings will be hurt by being on the bench. Mason got similar minutes last season when he was knocking on the door and through his performances he kicked the bloody thing down and forced Ole to play him, if Donny can't do the same then he is not good enough to be here.

Gandalf said:

So because he is a senior player he should be picked ahead of players who are performing better than him? I don't even understand what fair has to do with it. Ole wants to win and frankly needs to win, if VDB gave him a better shot to do that then he would have played a lot more but you don't get to be picked in the starting XI because your feelings will be hurt by being on the bench. Mason got similar minutes last season when he was knocking on the door and through his performances he kicked the bloody thing down and forced Ole to play him, if Donny can't do the same then he is not good enough to be here.

Click to expand...

Mason didn't kick any door down, he got the continuity of a run of games in part because he had no competition for that spot outside of Dan James. Of course the run of games helps and Mason was able to show his class.

VDB will never displace Bruno but he does also compete with McT/Pogba or Fred in the box to box role. He showed very strong performances in this role specifically in Southampton or Leipzig or vs Istanbul but wasn't granted back-to-back starts or a decent run from there.

VDS stated that he is a multi functional midfield player and can play anywhere so unless VDS was taking the piss there is no reason why he should not have been given more minutes.
I think the reason why he has not played is probably quite simple and that is the other midfielders look a lot better in training.

Gandalf said:

So because he is a senior player he should be picked ahead of players who are performing better than him? I don't even understand what fair has to do with it. Ole wants to win and frankly needs to win, if VDB gave him a better shot to do that then he would have played a lot more but you don't get to be picked in the starting XI because your feelings will be hurt by being on the bench. Mason got similar minutes last season when he was knocking on the door and through his performances he kicked the bloody thing down and forced Ole to play him, if Donny can't do the same then he is not good enough to be here.

Click to expand...

You are cleary ignoring the fact that even if he doesn't deserve a spot, a promise was likely broken, thus giving him a reason to want out.

Bondi77 said:

VDS stated that he is a multi functional midfield player and can play anywhere so unless VDS was taking the piss there is no reason why he should not have been given more minutes.
I think the reason why he has not played is probably quite simple and that is the other midfielders look a lot better in training.

Click to expand...

I would take what a player says about himself with a grain of salt. Literally everyone in Holland who can kick a ball sees himself as a "10" and how many times have you heard: "I can play anywhere on the pitch, wherever the coach puts me"?

That being said, his very good European runs have been as a 10 or as an attack minded 8. He only played one season of DM in the national competition and there have been plenty of criticism here on his passing range and tackling whenever he played that role at Utd. Not saying he can't adapt to that role, some thought he looked solid, but he's certainly unproven there.

Gandalf said:

So because he is a senior player he should be picked ahead of players who are performing better than him? I don't even understand what fair has to do with it. Ole wants to win and frankly needs to win, if VDB gave him a better shot to do that then he would have played a lot more but you don't get to be picked in the starting XI because your feelings will be hurt by being on the bench. Mason got similar minutes last season when he was knocking on the door and through his performances he kicked the bloody thing down and forced Ole to play him, if Donny can't do the same then he is not good enough to be here.

Click to expand...

If you don't understand the concept of a fair shot when you're brought into a club i can't help you.

Your first question is irrelevent, no one is saying he should be first choice above others who perform better. Only that he should get sufficient time in order to be able to challenge those who have the spot locked down, that's not an unusual concept. Luckily that's not something done out of the goodness of our hearts but is usually something that provides others with a rest and keeps people fresh if needed.

kouroux said:

I wonder what he was promised to convince him to sign for Utd because it couldn't have been about spending so much time on the bench

Click to expand...

Might have been promised that if he earns his place in the first team that be will play for man united

LovelyLittlePanda said:

I would take what a player says about himself with a grain of salt.

Click to expand...

I'm assuming VDS = Van Der Sar

LovelyLittlePanda said:

I would take what a player says about himself with a grain of salt. Literally everyone in Holland who can kick a ball sees himself as a "10" and how many times have you heard: "I can play anywhere on the pitch, wherever the coach puts me"?

That being said, his very good European runs have been as a 10 or as an attack minded 8. He only played one season of DM in the national competition and there have been plenty of criticism here on his passing range and tackling whenever he played that role at Utd. Not saying he can't adapt to that role, some thought he looked solid, but he's certainly unproven there.

Click to expand...

He hasn't shown enough to be played in any position, to be quite honest.

I actually think his a good player not world class by any means but our style of play is the complete opposite of his. Where Ajax play quick touch and go possession football with players always moving and looking to find space ours is slow and ponderous with very little movement so of course it’s going to make him not look as good.

Terranova said:

You are cleary ignoring the fact that even if he doesn't deserve a spot, a promise was likely broken, thus giving him a reason to want out.

Click to expand...

So is it a fact or was it likely? It just seems that narratives are being created in peoples imaginations and then being regurgitated as facts.

I know I am on a hiding to nothing here but I am going to try one more time. What was said between the club, the manager and the player during negotiations is known to the people concerned and nobody else, promises or guarantees may or may not have been offered and even if they were the nature of those promises is unknown. The narrative that Ole never fancied him as a player or that he made him promises and then went back on his word is pure fiction until somebody that was involved in negotiations says otherwise and no unnamed sources don't count.

Sticking to facts, I just do not understand what people are getting so worked up over and I wonder if the instant impact of Bruno has rather unrealistically raised expectations. Donny was signed for 40m which in all honesty is a squad player fee for a CL club, for reference City paid more for Ake and then turned around and bought Dias in the same window. A new player to a club, particularly one coming from another league, needs time to bed in and make their mark, again as an example look at Fabinho who didn't make an appearance for the first 2 months of his debut season and is now the first name on the team sheet for the dippers. Typically, you are drip fed into the team even after getting a full pre season and a bunch of friendlies to acclimatize, you will see progressively more playing time as you gain comfort with your role in the team and with the tactics. On top of the pre season work you also normally get some decent gaps between games and in normal seasons maybe even a mid season training camp to further aid the settling in process.

Donny has arrived into a virtually non existant pre season in a new league with a team that employs a very different tactical approach to the one he is used to. Not only was there a lack of opportunity to find his feet before the season started but due to the compressed nature of the season there is virtually no tactical training between matches as it is play, recovery and then play again, far from ideal. In spite of this Donny has made quite a few appearances, starting mainly in the lesser cup games as is normal for a new signing and making a number of substitute appearances in bigger matches, all par for the course. Clearly he has struggled, he appears to not be on the same wavelength as his teammates which is hardly surprising considering the lack of bedding in time already discussed. Without getting back to an argument over how many minutes, quality of minutes or what flavor the minutes were he still has made 26 appearances, starting 11 times and 13 of his appearances have been in the PL, again for reference Lingard, supposedly an Ole favorite, made precisely 0 appearances in the PL before his move to West Ham so the notion that Ole doesn't fancy VDB really does not hold up under the facts.

Donny is now injured, we know he was due to come into the team for the EL games before he got hurt and considering the injury crisis it is reasonable to believe that barring absolutely disastrous performances he would have played a lot of games over the past 6 weeks or so. It is very unfortunate timing that he got hurt just as the opportunity for a run of games was presenting itself but quite clearly this is just bad luck and not some cunning plan by Ole to stall his career.

All of the above is exactly on track for a new player in his first season with a new club.

I think Donny is a good player who can contribute to the squad and over the next couple of years has the potential to develop into a key player for us but he is not anywhere near that now. I have no issue with how the club has handled his first season and I hope he has the mental fortitude to overcome what is in the greater scheme of things a pretty minor setback in his career. I do not believe any of the mad conspiracy theories about Ed buying him without Ole's approval, Ole not playing him because he does not want him or Donny being upset because he was promised specific game time and a kinder egg every game.

Fahad Jawaid said:

I don't understand why we can't play a diamond formation. We played one against Everton at Goodison and we wiped the floor with them in the first 30 mins. That team included Pogba, VDB and Bruno. Its not like Greenwood or Martial are pulling up trees either. So logically this formation would be great for us, plus it allows us plenty of options off the bench.

DDG
AWB Victor Maguire Shaw
Fred/Mctominay
VDB Bruno Pogba
Cavani/Greenwood Rashford/Martial

The benefit of this formation is, Pogba can play on the Left where he enjoys playing and linkup with Rashford or Martial will benefit us, VDB will help us keep possession on the Right side where with AWB, we never seem to be in control. Bruno plays in his favorite position, plus this formation will allow us to overload midfield with 4 vs 2 or 4 vs 3 against sides that sit deep, lastly with Pogba and VDB both in the lineup, it will help us keep more of the ball compared to Fred, Bruno and Mctominay, where all three are prone to giving away cheap passes and overturn possession.

It also puts a question mark on Ole and his tactical management, this squad is not perfect but pretty good and any tactical manager will use a formation which will make use of his best players. Ancelotti would probably use a diamond with this side and get the best out of most of our players, whereas SAF would have won the league with this team.

Click to expand...

Just a crazy idea here, but maybe we've not been playing that formation because 2 of the players in your lineup have been injured for weeks.

KD6-3.7 said:

I actually think his a good player not world class by any means but our style of play is the complete opposite of his. Where Ajax play quick touch and go possession football with players always moving and looking to find space ours is slow and ponderous with very little movement so of course it’s going to make him not look as good.

Click to expand...

This is garbage. So you're saying he so good that he's too good? I'm a big fan of Donny, but he's looked off the pace in some of the appearances he's made for us - and that's totally understandable. But to say that Ajax play a better style with quicker passing and that's why he's not playing is ridiculous. Good players adapt and improve those around themselves.

Something's definitely not right. I wonder was there even a falling out with Ole. If I were him I would definitely be upset at how little I had played to this point. Would be gutted if he left, but can see it happening.

I would really like to see a midfield two of Scott and Donny, with Bruno in front in the 10. Just don't see Ole going for that though.

I think a lot on here are too quick to write him off. He needs time to adapt to the league and to the team’s style of play. Anyone remember how Fred’s first season went? What was it like 17 appearances- hardly getting any game time. People were questioning why we even bothered purchasing him. Sound familiar? DVB has made almost the same amount of appearances in his first year. No need for him or anyone else to panic. Food for thought

It's all down to VdB's mentality. If he can change his style to suit our gameplan, he'll make it here. If not, he won't. With the congested season, there is very little time to integrate a player with a completely different style to your team through training.

It's not like he hasn't had a chance; even with our brutal cup draws, he has started most of them. And the league is way too tight and competitive to try completely new things. His injury came at the worst possible time as I think he could've gotten some valuable minutes in the last few games with our midfield crisis. It'll be disappointing if he wants to move away, but understandable.

Rustyspider13 said:

It's all down to VdB's mentality. If he can change his style to suit our gameplan, he'll make it here. If not, he won't. With the congested season, there is very little time to integrate a player with a completely different style to your team through training.

It's not like he hasn't had a chance; even with our brutal cup draws, he has started most of them. And the league is way too tight and competitive to try completely new things. His injury came at the worst possible time as I think he could've gotten some valuable minutes in the last few games with our midfield crisis. It'll be disappointing if he wants to move away, but understandable.

Click to expand...

Our game plan is not to be a counter attacking side for the long term. I'd imagine Ole wants us to control more games as he gets the right personnel in, and Donny actually fits that philosophy that we want to be, more than what we are right now.

Nicoseth said:

I would really like to see a midfield two of Scott and Donny, with Bruno in front in the 10. Just don't see Ole going for that though.

Click to expand...

Doesnt offer us enough protection defensively given our CB pairing isn't strong enough. With a proper DM we'd be able to play him with Donny or Mctominay and allow them to get forward more to support Bruno. We ask the 2 CM's to both play too deep currently. Doesnt really help Donny play his natural game sitting so deep.

I would like to see us try out Bruno as a false 9 and VdB behind him with Rashford left and Greenwood right and McFred or McPogba behind.

VP89 said:

Our game plan is not to be a counter attacking side for the long term. I'd imagine Ole wants us to control more games as he gets the right personnel in, and Donny actually fits that philosophy that we want to be, more than what we are right now.

Click to expand...

I agree. But we can't do that with one of Matic, McT and Fred starting as VdB's partner. So until we get that elusive DM, he needs to be patient. I think he is very precise with his ground passing and is surprisingly good at turning out of pressure. But he needs to slow down a tad when he is playing with our current crop of players. If he can add that tempo control to his game, he'll be a very good midfielder. Hopefully he and the coaches see that and next season we get a much more effective player instead of a bench option.

Rustyspider13 said:

I agree. But we can't do that with one of Matic, McT and Fred starting as VdB's partner. So until we get that elusive DM, he needs to be patient. I think he is very precise with his ground passing and is surprisingly good at turning out of pressure. But he needs to slow down a tad when he is playing with our current crop of players. If he can add that tempo control to his game, he'll be a very good midfielder. Hopefully he and the coaches see that and next season we get a much more effective player instead of a bench option.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that's why he's also not playing box to box, looks like Ole needs two players to do one man's job in a 6 which leaves no space for him.

I still have no idea what type of player we signed, if he’s actually any good and if he’s cut out for premier league football. All I know is that for a £40 million starting Dutch midfielder, I was expecting a greater return on minutes played and therefore end product in his first season. I’m hoping he might just be one of these young foreign signings that needs a season to bed in. If not, it’s an almighty waste of time and money.....

I think he was bought with the expectation that Pogba will leave this summer and still is going to (no sign of a new contract).

His best chance of regular game time for us is to establish himself in a deeper role because he's never going to replace Bruno. The question is has he got what it takes for that role, I'm not convinced.

He's been nowhere near good enough bar maybe one or two games to deserve starts over Pogba, Bruno, McTominay, Fred or Matic it's as simple as that

I also think the season just hasn't panned out to easily give him minutes. He's been a victim of that. We had a horrible start after no pre season, then we were playing catch up and chasing in many games. There had hardly been a single PL game where we've been comfortable with half an hour left to give him decent minutes. Then when Pogba is injured and we could use him he's missing himself.

LovelyLittlePanda said:

I would take what a player says about himself with a grain of salt. Literally everyone in Holland who can kick a ball sees himself as a "10" and how many times have you heard: "I can play anywhere on the pitch, wherever the coach puts me"?

That being said, his very good European runs have been as a 10 or as an attack minded 8. He only played one season of DM in the national competition and there have been plenty of criticism here on his passing range and tackling whenever he played that role at Utd. Not saying he can't adapt to that role, some thought he looked solid, but he's certainly unproven there.

Click to expand...

VDS not VDB

Terranova said:

It all depends on what was promised. If he was promised a lot of game time, well then promises were broken and it's justified to hand in a transfer request. If he wasn't promised a certain amount of game time(which would be odd for him to accept being a Dutch International and starter for a CL club, albeit in a lower league) then it would be poor from him, even though it doesn't seem like he's getting any chances to change his situation.

Click to expand...

That’s not the case though is it? Players won’t be promised guaranteed game time unconditional to their performances (in training or on the pitch). Even droppable super stars become droppable at some point. You’re describing the sort of promise Messi would get if he came here not VdB.

I’d love him to stay but if he’s not shown he’s up to it in training, not done much at all when on the pitch and is wanting to leave after only a few months at a huge club like United then I can’t say, at this stage, I’d miss him. Do think he’d succeed here given time though - but feck it if he’s wanting out already.

Adcuth said:

Doesnt offer us enough protection defensively given our CB pairing isn't strong enough. With a proper DM we'd be able to play him with Donny or Mctominay and allow them to get forward more to support Bruno. We ask the 2 CM's to both play too deep currently. Doesnt really help Donny play his natural game sitting so deep.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

If Ole's bought VDB as his player then it's looking more and more likely that he will go for a pure ball winning midfielder like Rice.

Let Pogba, Bruno and VDB compete for 2 spots in a normal 433. If Ole sees VDB'S ability to play as a support striker then all 3 can play in a formation as well.

Rice is looking like the player we buy in my opinion.

The way i see it, is that the team's inconsistency was the reason why DvB was not afforded additional minutes, Ole had to play more rigid style with Mcfred combination sitting in front of the defense, if the team had a consistent form and performed better during the first 6/8 weeks, then i think Ole would've accommodated Donny with more minutes and more starts in the league.

I also think DvB needs to adapt his style and be more flexible, the team does not play quick passing style with quick movement and position interchanging, especially when we dominate lesser teams, we usually probe slowly and wait for the kill, Donny needs to also show more courage with the ball and attempt riskier passes or run with the ball more, come deep and so on, when he is played in the No.10 role, it seems he wants to play as striker/2nd striker and make runs behind the oppo defense, rather than a play as a playmaker just like any other 10.

Then his injury came at worst time for him, that's some bad luck on his part, so i can see why his situation is not ideal at the moment, and stupid media rumors are surfacing now and some posters starting to doubt whether Ole even wanted to sign him, even though very reputable sources reported it was Ole who convinced Donny to join Utd, and also it is reported Ole will have a veto on transfer and any player bought will be one approved by Ole.

I am still hopeful he will come good, he showed a glimpse of his quality and granted that Ajax play different style to Utd, he did display with Ajax excellent ability and did well in big CL games.