Solskjaer: Winning trophies is more of an ego thing for managers, league position is where true progress is seen

RUCK4444

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red4ever 79 said:
Yup would much rather receive that 2nd place trophy everytime, oh wait!. Or would much rather get champions league qualification as it is the be all and end all, only to get knocked out in the group stages.
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Wigan won the cup the same year they were relegated. Prime example of what a cup signifies as far as an indication of improvement.

I’m sure a load of cups with no real progress in the league would be better then? Proper Arsenal type club.

Seriously a feckin cup at the moment means nothing, what it would do is give the players and manager a boost. It would signify nothing in particular.
 

AltiUn

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do.ob said:
Small time mentality?
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Christ, here come the cavalry. Letting United fans get under your skin then proceeding to make thousands of posts on their forum is the real small time mentality.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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do.ob said:
"Since the first year I arrived they told me that you have to win the Champions League," said the City boss, who won Europe's elite club competition twice as Barcelona manager.

"It is always on our shoulders but I'm not concerned about that. If you deserve it in football, you go through. If you don't, you don't."

"We are validated for the trophies we can win. The previous teams won. This team has to prove it."

Such a different approach from Guardiola.
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He manages a cheat code of a side with unlimited money who have experienced very recent titles, the context Is entirely different but hey just throw logic out of the window once again.
 

edcunited1878

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Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Correlation is not causation.
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Exactly. That team was in the ascension and got better and better with the backline and attacking play. Winning trophies was the result of consistent match winning performances by top class players.

We all saw that team knocking on the door even after they got knocked out of the CL by AC Milan the year before I believe. That was the natural progression of the that squad and they took it to the next level in terms of performances and just high quality week in, week out. If you put in the work, have that consistent quality of a high level for the entirety of a season, of course you're going to have a great chance at winning.
 

united_99

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:o This needed a thread?
Ole is right and he doesn’t say that he wouldn’t like to win trophies. He has also not treated the cup competitions like he doesn’t care, we play enough first team players in the cups.
But the league is the bread and butter, always has been, we also used to say this under SAF.
 

TheReligion

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do.ob said:
But that's still he winning mentality that seperates the big clubs from the small time clubs. To feel the need to win every trophy and judge yourself critically by those expectations. Not peddle the excuses of small time clubs.
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Seriously man, why do you post on here? You clearly have an issue with United or the way some posters have spoken about the Bundesliga. Just move on from it as you're losing all credibility by coming on here to WUM.
 

Hansi Fick

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edcunited1878 said:
Full quote/comment by Ole:

"Of course, we are all wanting to win trophies at this club. But sometimes a trophy can hide the other facts of what is happening at the club (see Arsenal, Wigan). It's in the league position you see if you're progressing really. Sometimes in the cup tournaments, you might be lucky; you might be unlucky with draws and games that are decided on different factors. But, of course, we're aiming to win; that's what's required in football and you're always aiming to win trophies."

"I think you have to say that when you see the culture of what's happening every day, I feel a lot of improvement in the everyday routine, the everyday work. The boys have taken on everything I want. It's for others to assess how much we've improved. We're 12 points ahead of where we were in the league this time last season. I have been here for two and a half years of those years (since United last won a trophy in 2017) now and coming in, I felt a big rebuild had to be made. It's in the league position that you see if there has been progress. That's how you see if you are capable of coping with ups and downs."

"We need to win something and, if we play well, the trophies will return. But a trophy won't say 'we're back'. We need the consistency of being top of the league and then winning some trophies. A cup can hide that you are struggling a little bit."
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Thanks for the addition
 

MoskvaRed

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Genuine progress in the league (i.e. a significant increase in points tally) does mean more than winning a domestic cup or the Europa. But it’s just funny to observe the contrast in reactions between Ole saying it and Poch.
 

united_99

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Some pathetic Bundesliga supporters never disappoint, their favourite hobby is polluting the United forum. How sad.
 

Sandikan

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Strange comment. Should have just left it at league position is the key indicator.
The ego stuff is bizarre, and the sort of guff managers come out with after losing late on in a cup competition. As in "i never fancied them anyway"
 

Leftback99

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Bubz27 said:
Surely Ole understands the effects winning a trophy have on players? Rooney Ronaldo as a team, didn't win anything until the league cup v Wigan. Huge catalyst for success it turned out to be.
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Maybe they were just brilliant players.

And then there's Wigan...
 

sincher

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I have never bought the argument that winning one of the lesser cups 'teaches you how to win' or leads you on to better things. Sometimes it happens because the team is improving, but normally you only see that after 2, 3 or 4 trophies, like with Fergie at the end of the 80s. A lot of the time, there is a hefty slice of luck in there. The importance of winning stuff is for fans! It is massively more enjoyable if a season ends with something to show for it.

Ole's comments are fine, I think, I agree with them.
 

Brophs

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Unusually authoritative for a bloke who has done neither in his time here. :angel:
 

Grinner

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You might want to check Fergie's record when he first started at United. But I'm sure you all thought the cups weren't that important. Personally I love winning the FA Cup. It means a lot still to fans who grew up watching the epic years. It's been somewhat cheapened now though.
 

welshwingwizard

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A trophy when you are in 4th/5th-8th is a fluke and less important than league position.

I trophy when you are in 2nd/3rd and maybe 4th position is the key to giving you a winning mentality to push towards the league win.

Fergusson always saw the value of that. He saw the value that Carling Cup win had in 05/06 in giving that young team confidence and the right mentality to win the league in 06/07.

Klopps recent champions league win was the push that took Liverpool over the line to win last year too.

Winning is cups is vital to shift mentality. Winning breeds winners.
 

Bubz27

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Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Spurs won the League Cup in, what, 2008....what did that do for them? Nothing.
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Yeah. I'm more thinking about using a trophy as a springboard. There are more examples of clubs winning a trophy and thinking they've done it. I think generally a smaller club would win a league cup and think they've reached the pinnacle whereas a club like United should be thinking that this win gives us the taste for trophies.

I've never said winning a trophy means you will definitely go and win more. Just that with the right team it could be a springboard.
 

Hansi Fick

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Grinner said:
You might want to check Fergie's record when he first started at United. But I'm sure you all thought the cups weren't that important. Personally I love winning the FA Cup. It means a lot still to fans who grew up watching the epic years. It's been somewhat cheapened now though.
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It's pretty ironic that Wenger was being ridiculed for the "4th spot is like a trophy" thing that was attributed to him (no idea whether he actually really said it like that, seeing how abridging the use of football quotes tends to be :nervous: ), when in reality he must be called the King of the FA Cup, he owned that competition and was a serial winner.
 

Bubz27

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Leftback99 said:
Maybe they were just brilliant players.

And then there's Wigan...
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They were brilliant and it was Wigan. City lost a cup final to Wigan a few years later. Those same brilliant players also finished the joint lowest Fergie had ever finished at United.

There's obviously way more to it then just winning a trophy means you'll win more.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Bubz27 said:
Yeah. I'm more thinking about using a trophy as a springboard. There are more examples of clubs winning a trophy and thinking they've done it. I think generally a smaller club would win a league cup and think they've reached the pinnacle whereas a club like United should be thinking that this win gives us the taste for trophies.

I've never said winning a trophy means you will definitely go and win more. Just that with the right team it could be a springboard.
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It could be but if it's the right team they may not need the springboard only time.
 

Karlos PFC

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Terrible statement, I'd say Moyes-esque.

Why do some posters need to bring Arteta to this? He is in exactly the same position Ole was last year. Meaning he just started rebuilding Arsenal and he already lifted the FA cup and this year he's playing some great stuff (lately). We also started playing great after Bruno came.

Also Pep. You can't compare him to Ole, not in a million years. Of course he buys great players(he's earned it) but his football is out of this world. In Oles' case he just wants great players for going out there and enjoying themselves.
 

Hansi Fick

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DWelbz19 said:
Those are two separate quotes mashed together. Stop being obtuse, you know what you’re doing.
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It's not, it's from two sentences in one and the same quote. What I'm doing is quoting from a Guardian article. :rolleyes:
Calm down.
 

Grinner

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Hansi Fick said:
It's pretty ironic that Wenger was being ridiculed for the "4th spot is like a trophy" thing that was attributed to him (no idea whether he actually really said it like that, seeing how abridging the use of football quotes tends to be :nervous: ), when in reality he must be called the King of the FA Cup, he owned that competition and was a serial winner.
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It's a manc forum. You're never going to get a reasonable assessment of an Arsenal manager.
 

Foxbatt

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RUCK4444 said:
Wigan won the cup the same year they were relegated. Prime example of what a cup signifies as far as an indication of improvement.

I’m sure a load of cups with no real progress in the league would be better then? Proper Arsenal type club.

Seriously a feckin cup at the moment means nothing, what it would do is give the players and manager a boost. It would signify nothing in particular.
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Depends on what trophy it is. Ask any Wigan fan would they have stayed in the PL that season and never won anything or would they have taken the FA Cup and got relegated. They would have probably been relegated the next season anyway. Now at least they have won a prestigious trophy in England.
Would I take the Champions League over being 2nd or 3rd place in the PL? Any day.
 

dal

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We won the fa cup and europa league in the last 8 years and not once did that lead to a consecutive top 4 finish in those 8 years.

We will have consistency if Ole manages to do it now and finish top 3 again

Also its obvious it’s taken out of context, Ole knows we need to win a trophy but we ain’t sacrificing 2nd place for it this season.

We want the premier league, we must win it soon.
 

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edcunited1878 said:
Full quote/comment by Ole:

"Of course, we are all wanting to win trophies at this club. But sometimes a trophy can hide the other facts of what is happening at the club (see Arsenal, Wigan). It's in the league position you see if you're progressing really. Sometimes in the cup tournaments, you might be lucky; you might be unlucky with draws and games that are decided on different factors. But, of course, we're aiming to win; that's what's required in football and you're always aiming to win trophies."

"I think you have to say that when you see the culture of what's happening every day, I feel a lot of improvement in the everyday routine, the everyday work. The boys have taken on everything I want. It's for others to assess how much we've improved. We're 12 points ahead of where we were in the league this time last season. I have been here for two and a half years of those years (since United last won a trophy in 2017) now and coming in, I felt a big rebuild had to be made. It's in the league position that you see if there has been progress. That's how you see if you are capable of coping with ups and downs."

"We need to win something and, if we play well, the trophies will return. But a trophy won't say 'we're back'. We need the consistency of being top of the league and then winning some trophies. A cup can hide that you are struggling a little bit."
Click to expand...

Oh look when you see the full quote it's a different non small-time picture that emerges... Fancy that.
 

Godfather

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Well winning trophies alone does not necessarily mean porgress. Not winning any with United surely doesn't though.
 

Champagne Football

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I agree with Ole. I'd take a manager any day who will develop youth, try to play nice football while making steady progress up the league table, over a trophy obsessed dinosaur who plays dour football such as a Jose or Conte.
 
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