Playing with two CDMs and we've also only scored 5 goals during this run so that tells you what our tactics have been.
6 clean sheets in last 7 matches - are we defensively solid now?
- Thread starter SinNombre
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
think the keeper has been a big part of it, Henderson looks alot more vocal the De Gea ever has, will shape the future of the club when De Gea is back and to see if he goes straight back in the side, which will have a negative affect if he does
According to Amazon Prime Video Sport, Shaw created the 3rd most chances in Europe across the top five leagues. Based on the PL's official stats he created 7 big chances and only Fernandes created more (17). So I don't think he prioritise defence first and foremost.Currently, yes
Credit to Maguire and Lindelof and also to Ole. And maybe Henderson too.
But we also shouldn't forget that this is the flip side of having FBs like Shaw and even more so AWB, who prioritise defence first and foremost. Every time someone is moaning that they don't create enough and why can't we buy the latest flavour of the month glorified wingback, the flip side is that defensively-sound fullbacks are very rare these days and they allow you to put solid defensive performances like this together even if you don't dominate possession with your midfield.
I am also not so sure about where AWB's priorities are. He is always up and down on the flank, he is just not that good attacking-wise yet.
It's Henderson. If he's dropped, we are in big trouble, in big trouble.
you might want to go look up what a CDM is, we dont have a single player at the club who is a CDM, both play CM completely different positions, we have also missed some sitters in these games as well.
I think he does. If you look at his starting position, it is almost always much deeper than lots of the more attack-centric FBs out there. I think he's literally just that good. At the moment, he's amongst a very small number of FBs in the world who are world class at both aspects at the same time.
I agree about AWB for what it's worth. But you have to grant his obvious strength is defending.
Thank you for your suggestion. I have compared Shaw's and Robertson's heat maps on sofascore.com (I don't know if it's a reliable site or not) and it's not much different. I was a bit surprised, because I agree with you that he starts deeper, but I think it's part of our tactic. Shaw is very good at keeping and passing the ball and can go on marauding runs. Honestly it's a good question, because he is so good at both aspects as you say.
On the other side of the pitch, AWB plays a different game. Most of the time he tries a quick pass and then runs to receive the ball further up the pitch. Then stops and nothing happens which is frustrating. Anyway, I think both of them are intergral part of our attacks since we don't really have any winger and we also not that good to play through the middle.
Henderson, you can see the extra confidence maguire and lindelof have now there no longer having to deal with every ball that gets put in the box. That and they are happily holding a higher line confident the Henderson will play as sweeper to balls over the top.
Double post.
Henderson is just a better batch for how we play. He’s probably not as good an all round keeper as DDG (yet) but it really makes a difference for our CBs
Yuh for sure. I’ve always been wary of criticising him for that reason. This is only his third ever year as a premier league footballer. Still lots of room and time to improve.
Absolutely rubbish but come to expect it on here.
With Henderson in goal the backline has less to do it seems.
For me we should leave CB this summer and get a CDM. Helps both the defence and midfield.
Sell Lingard to West Ham. Sign Rice.
Starting Midfield of Rice Pogba Bruno
Then get Sancho or Halaand. Preferably Halaand.
If Pogba goes then he will have to be replaced with a really great CM.
Only Two first team singings but they would really advance the team.
For me we should leave CB this summer and get a CDM. Helps both the defence and midfield.
Sell Lingard to West Ham. Sign Rice.
Starting Midfield of Rice Pogba Bruno
Then get Sancho or Halaand. Preferably Halaand.
If Pogba goes then he will have to be replaced with a really great CM.
Only Two first team singings but they would really advance the team.
So you're telling me Fred and Mctominay don't play as CDM?
no they dont, go watch sergio bosquets play, he plays CDM and you will see the difference
Which of our other fit centre mids would you have started ? Paul pogba ?
I think it's all down to finally getting rid of Lingard.
We have turned into Tuchel’s Chelsea. Solid at the back at the expense of creativity. At least we have the excuse that our creative players are / were injured.
Hopefully with everyone back after the international break we can stay solid but be more attacking at the same time.
Hopefully with everyone back after the international break we can stay solid but be more attacking at the same time.
So I checked it up.
With Dean Henderson we got 7 clean sheets in our last 8 games with him. Insane really!
I think he is a big factor for sure. Although De Gea was good vs Chelsea should be said too.
I think he helps our defenders more than De Gea with communication and thus makes it easier for them to do their job.
He comes off his line more as well.
Ole should have seen this before and that is why most of us wanted Henderson to take the first team spot this summer.
He did not start well when given the rare chance though.
With Dean Henderson we got 7 clean sheets in our last 8 games with him. Insane really!
I think he is a big factor for sure. Although De Gea was good vs Chelsea should be said too.
I think he helps our defenders more than De Gea with communication and thus makes it easier for them to do their job.
He comes off his line more as well.
Ole should have seen this before and that is why most of us wanted Henderson to take the first team spot this summer.
He did not start well when given the rare chance though.
Henderson has made a massive difference. As an example today he was on the edge of his box and came out and headed it away from Zlatan. DeGea is on his line and that’s a chance.
Or maybe we’re just not as bad as some of the caf make us out to be .
It is better than what is happening to arsenal spurs and happened to Chelsea and city first half of the season. Tuchel and ole are getting results in the business end of an ugly season. Fair play to pep for being the only club in England to have found genuine form, the depth of the squad helps majorly. Amazing that Ake cost more than Donny, started less than half the games and we haven't heard a thing. Still he should take credit should pep
Recently Ole hasn't had options due to injuries but there's plenty of games before where we've used two defensive mids and it wasn't needed. IMO it makes sense in big games like City but not midtable teams that will sit deep.
Not sure what you mean. Fred and Mctom play in a double pivot. The majority of the game they're behind the ball and close to the center of the pitch. What exactly about their play makes you think they're not there as CDMs?
Solid-Ish.
Keeper has helped for sure and missing some attacking options makes us even happier to sit back in formation and make it more difficult to pass through our lines. Its certainly a positive run by the numbers defensively but we've also clearly lost a spark going forward in that time too with just 5 goals in our last 7 games in a season where we were scoring a lot of goals.
I'd say we've shifted the balance, we're even more reserved going forward and thats made us tougher defensively but we're relying on 1 goal, sometimes a scrappy or lucky one, to try and get a result
The challenge will be to get back to being a high scoring team whilst having a solid defensive record
Keeper has helped for sure and missing some attacking options makes us even happier to sit back in formation and make it more difficult to pass through our lines. Its certainly a positive run by the numbers defensively but we've also clearly lost a spark going forward in that time too with just 5 goals in our last 7 games in a season where we were scoring a lot of goals.
I'd say we've shifted the balance, we're even more reserved going forward and thats made us tougher defensively but we're relying on 1 goal, sometimes a scrappy or lucky one, to try and get a result
The challenge will be to get back to being a high scoring team whilst having a solid defensive record
Defending is a team game, not just backline and GK. Some good fortune as well helps too.
Dan James has been starting matches of late and his pressing and closing down throughout 90 minutes with Bruno helps defensively. McTominay, Fred, and Matic are the only fit CMs throughout the past few weeks as well.
Team effort to give United good chances to get 3 points and at least a result while the goals have become a bit scarce.
Dan James has been starting matches of late and his pressing and closing down throughout 90 minutes with Bruno helps defensively. McTominay, Fred, and Matic are the only fit CMs throughout the past few weeks as well.
Team effort to give United good chances to get 3 points and at least a result while the goals have become a bit scarce.
Has goalscoring in general dipped this season? Kind of feels like everyone is struggling to score recently?
I think all our defensive players are in good form and we've mostly cut cheap mistakes out of our game. Greenwood, Bruno and James have worked pretty hard defending and that probably helps too. Cavani and Martial just dont contribute as much in that regard. Probably helps that teams are keeping 8 players parked on the edge of their box most matches too.
I think all our defensive players are in good form and we've mostly cut cheap mistakes out of our game. Greenwood, Bruno and James have worked pretty hard defending and that probably helps too. Cavani and Martial just dont contribute as much in that regard. Probably helps that teams are keeping 8 players parked on the edge of their box most matches too.
I cant wait until we sign Rice and put him in the middle of our defensively capable fullbacks in AWB and Shaw. Then we have our CB'S Maguire, new LCB and Lindelof competing for 2 spots that are guarded by Henderson.
We are going gung ho in attack in my opinion because we can set them up doing what they want to do further up the pitch.
We are going gung ho in attack in my opinion because we can set them up doing what they want to do further up the pitch.
Maguire and Lindelof have been in a magnificent form recently and Shaw is as good as ever.
Not yet, let's wait until the end of the season at least. There is definitely a difference with Hendo though. Communication is so important in defences and just having your keeper behind you shouting constantly is going to keep you concentrated.
I think we should keep the stability the same, our recent lack of goals has definitely been due to our injuries. Cavani, Martial, Pogba, DVB have all been out and Rashford doesn’t even look like a footballer due to his injury issues. On top of that we don’t even have a right winger!
Okay but most of them werent scoring many anyway. Rashford the odd man out, without a doubt we'd be scoring more if he was fully fit
We have also been hit with a lot of injuries up in our attack. Cavani out, Martial out (and out of form), Rashford playing injured and Pogba just coming back...
If you look at it in a simple manner. But it's not like we've been sitting back. We had more chances than city did in our game against them. Against West ham we could have easily scored 4. We should have scored 3 vs milan in the first leg. Don't assume that just because we haven't scored much that we have been parking the bus...
I just think he lacks confidence. He gets up and down the flank well but he often just cycles the ball back rather than cross it...
they play in the same way Scholes and Keane played, obviously not as good, no one in there right mind would call keane or scholes CDM, like i said go watch bosquets, a CDM sits in a front of the defence and wont move, mctomminay and fred get all over the pitch, even seeing the positions Fred gets in to constantly at the edge of the box is nothing like a CDM, there both box to box midfielders, positive it was the city game we were 2-0 up with 10 mins to go and Fred was in there box trying to get on the end of a cross.
Deano is superior to DDG in his current form. I wouldn't be surprised if when DDG gets back from Spain if he becomes #2.
Both Maguire and Lindelof have been enjoying a run of great form. AWB and Shaw are both defensively great. Henderson keeping better command of his box may be a factor in this as well. Also, Pogba has been injured: McFred have been the double pivot shielding our CBs while being generally terrible offensively.
When we were a free-scoring team, our CBs were making errors and they weren't getting cover from McFred because Pogba was starting. That we were conceding goalscorer chances that De Gea wasn't always saving came from a combination of factors. But the simple fact is that the team has less room for slack defensively when Pogba is part of the pivot. He brings a lot team and absolutely should start. It's just that purely from a defensive energy and tackling perspective McTominay is going to offer more.
When we were a free-scoring team, our CBs were making errors and they weren't getting cover from McFred because Pogba was starting. That we were conceding goalscorer chances that De Gea wasn't always saving came from a combination of factors. But the simple fact is that the team has less room for slack defensively when Pogba is part of the pivot. He brings a lot team and absolutely should start. It's just that purely from a defensive energy and tackling perspective McTominay is going to offer more.
They don't.
If you changed the starting eleven in every match, that would be bad for the team chemistry. McTominay and Fred couldn't be at their best if they are not playing regularly.
They are close to center of the pitch because we are playing quick counter attack and didn't have so much ball possession. Bruno always makes a gamble with a quick release in front, there's no time for them to penetrate in front of the ball like Scholsy did. They do what every CMs should do, marking the midfield area.
CDM is more close to CB, They could be the 3rd CB and cover the FBs when they are overlapping. They should also a destroyer in every area, while offensively they will sitting in center area or marking the playmakers to avoid the counter attack. I don't think McFred are playing that role.
We were much more solid last season, the defence has it in them to play at this better level, it’s not just down to Henderson.