How good is/was Sergio Busquets?

tomaldinho1

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Good debate this!

Better than Carrick? What do people think?
Definitely better but they're both near the top of that deep lying technical player pile. Big difference for me was Carrick was often caught in possession/susceptible to the press and less mobile - Carrick probably had a better long range pass on him but Busquets is right at the top of that pile for me.

Busquets was awful to play against - not only was he a diver, always chatting shit to the ref, buying freekicks at the slightest touch and generally acting like he'd torn both his ACLs in every challenge but he was also a great player.
 

berbatrick

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I’m not going to feckin’ refute all this stuff.

I’ve seen Busi over a decade and I think... could could Carrick not do the job?

Explain it to me like I’m 5.
Carrick would be marginally better at long range passing, but Busquets has superior control and short passing (both among the best in the world), and equal everywhere else.
To gel with Xavi and Iniesta, Busquets works much better than Carrick. I really rate him but he wasn't at that level of quick passing and feints that their midfield used.
 

dal

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Literally in that link he also praised Lingard. You think Pep is actually going to reveal what he genuinely thinks in a press conference? They're always pure hyperbole, and he was talking in the context of the England NT.

I understand that it's hard to be rational about your own players but you don't have to be so salty when people with broader perspectives disagree.
I’m seriously fine with a debate about it but I just think laughing that carrick is better than busquets is wierd. It’s not that outlandish.

It’s like saying Drogba was better than Rooney, I wouldn’t be laughing at it.

Maybe I need a drink. Bye.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I’m seriously fine with a debate about it but I just think laughing that carrick is better than busquets is wierd. It’s not that outlandish.

It’s like saying Drogba was better than Rooney, I wouldn’t be laughing at it.

Maybe I need a drink. Bye.
That's fair enough. I don't think my perspective has been OTT in this thread to be honest - I really rated Carrick personally and I genuinely wasn't trying to WUM. I apologise if I've given offense as that was never my intent.

Hope you have a great night and some enjoyable bevs!
 

ray24

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I didnt watch Barcelona all that often in la liga, so maybe thats why Xavi is rated higher than Iniesta, but i often found Iniesta equally, if not more impressive than Xavi in the champions league, or for the national team.

Its a bit weird for me, how they aren't rated in the same tier, but Xavi is supposedly on his own.
Xavi is better than Iniesta in terms of controlling the play. Iniesta is a better attacker than Xavi in the final third, but he could never dictate the tempo of the game the way Xavi did. After Xavi left, Barca never won a CL again even when Iniesta was supposed to take over the Xavi role.

There's no better midfielders that controls the tempo of a game as well as Xavi did in his prime.
 

RUCK4444

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I’m seriously fine with a debate about it but I just think laughing that carrick is better than busquets is wierd. It’s not that outlandish.

It’s like saying Drogba was better than Rooney, I wouldn’t be laughing at it.

Maybe I need a drink. Bye.
I’m a massive Carrick fan but Busquets is one of the best ever in that position.

I would say he’s going to be looked back on as comfortably better than Carrick.
 

SadlerMUFC

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There is no glory in playing DM. Just look at Carrick. He is one of the best I have ever seen in that position and most of our own supporters underrated him. He didn't really start to get appreciated until after he retired. He is probably the best holding midfielder England has ever produced yet he could hardly get a sniff in the England squad. SAF knew though and he was one of the first names on his team sheet...
 

Morty_

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Xavi is better than Iniesta in terms of controlling the play. Iniesta is a better attacker than Xavi in the final third, but he could never dictate the tempo of the game the way Xavi did. After Xavi left, Barca never won a CL again even when Iniesta was supposed to take over the Xavi role.

There's no better midfielders that controls the tempo of a game as well as Xavi did in his prime.
True, but he didnt really play that big of a role in their last CL, did he?
Often came off the bench, in fact, in that final i believe he only played 10-15 minutes.

One could argue they would have won it that year without him.
 
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Daysleeper

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True, but he didnt really play that big of a role in their last CL, did he?
Often came off the bench, in fact, in that final i believe i only played 10-15 minutes.

One could argue they would have won it that year without him.
yes we would have won it without Xavi but his presence in the lockeroom was great for that final season.
 

NasirTimothy

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Is he better than Makelele
This is a great question. I think both are clearly among the best players of all time in that specific position. I will never forget the incident with Marcelo though, and that colours my view of SB as a person (same with Suárez and Evra)
 

thepolice123

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Xavi is better than Iniesta in terms of controlling the play. Iniesta is a better attacker than Xavi in the final third, but he could never dictate the tempo of the game the way Xavi did. After Xavi left, Barca never won a CL again even when Iniesta was supposed to take over the Xavi role.

There's no better midfielders that controls the tempo of a game as well as Xavi did in his prime.
Xavi had bigger impact on Barca's consistency throughout the season but Iniesta was easily the better big match player for them and Spain.
 

FrankDrebin

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His assist to Messi in the 2011 CL semi final vs Real Madrid is for the best ever.

Anyway completely suited Barcalona's style of play. He was never quite on the same level as Xavi and Iniesta, but still one of the best holding midfielders of his generation.

Really enjoyed watching that.
 

SwedishFish

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He was great in his day but he's completely shot now, shouldn't be a starter for Barcelona. Definitely a player Barcelona need to look to replace (as best as they can).
 

RashyForPM

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Can’t be tackled/pressed. Ridiculously dirty. Very Fernandinho like in a way. I’d say Carrick but he was anything but dirty.
 

ray24

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True, but he didnt really play that big of a role in their last CL, did he?
Often came off the bench, in fact, in that final i believe he only played 10-15 minutes.

One could argue they would have won it that year without him.
He didn't play too many minutes, but whenever he's on the pitch he can still slow down the tempo and make it hard for a team to have a good counter-attack.

Xavi was still good at seeing games out.

Xavi had bigger impact on Barca's consistency throughout the season but Iniesta was easily the better big match player for them and Spain.
But Iniesta without Xavi wasn't as deadly.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Best holding midfielder I've seen. Will go down as one of the greats in that position. Comfortably better than Carrick and Alonso who were the next best of his generation.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I’m seriously fine with a debate about it but I just think laughing that carrick is better than busquets is wierd. It’s not that outlandish.

It’s like saying Drogba was better than Rooney, I wouldn’t be laughing at it.

Maybe I need a drink. Bye.
I think there was a considerable gap between Carrick and Busquets. As good as as Carrick was, he was never really an elite CM. All the bemoaning surrounding him here, for example, wasn't just because people didn't get the nuances of his role. It was also because the reference point at that time was Keane and Scholes who were clearly a cut above. Carrick was by any yard stick an excellent footballer. But he had weaknesses that held him back, he wasn't very mobile, lacked leadership, authority and dynamism (he gained two of these finally in the 12/13 RVP year) and often shat himself when pressed, and/or maybe just didn't have the quick feet to get out of those spaces. Obviously on the flip side he had a lovely passing range and screened our defence well.

Busquets was for me so much better. He was almost impossible to press in his prime. Would get out of the most uncomfortable of spaces with absolute ease. Technically he was superior - quicker feet, better close control, better short passer, better playmaker etc It's only long passing where I'd give Carrick the edge.


Xavi is better than Iniesta in terms of controlling the play. Iniesta is a better attacker than Xavi in the final third, but he could never dictate the tempo of the game the way Xavi did. After Xavi left, Barca never won a CL again even when Iniesta was supposed to take over the Xavi role.

There's no better midfielders that controls the tempo of a game as well as Xavi did in his prime.
I think Xavi would be worse at Iniesta's role than Iniesta would at Xavi's. I do agree that Xavi was undoubtedly better and the absolute best at controlling games but Iniesta was better and unrivalled as a ball carrier and playmaking as far as attacking midfield were concerned. Two very different players who were incredible together. Find it hard to compare them as they both reached such a high level in their specific role.

As for the CL, I think overstate the whole Xavi dependency of Barca and Spain. He was an important player. However, he wasn't an important player in their last CL win. Useful but not vital. And if you have three all time greats (in Spain's case two) - Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. The magic tends to get diminished as each of them go. So just because Xavi was the oldest of the three/two, people refer to his leaving as the key moment as if that alone underpins him being the most important part.
 
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Andersonson

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I've seen Barca live many times. If he watch him closey you can see that he rules the midfield.

He is a fantastic footballer. One of the best i've seen in his position.

Diving cnut though
 

UnitedRepublic

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Carrick compared to Busquets there is no comparisson Busquets is the player we all wish Carrick would be, to be honest I never rated Carrick my big brother used to rate Carrick but I didn’t. I like my midfielders in the Scholes, Essien & Xavi mould. There is only one thing I liked with Carrick and that is that he could play the ball between the lines at times, except for that I think we as United fans overrate Carrick a lot.
 

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I think there was a considerable gap between Carrick and Busquets. As good as as Carrick was, he was never really an elite CM. All the bemoaning surrounding him here, for example, wasn't just because people didn't get the nuances of his role. It was also because the reference point at that time was Keane and Scholes who were clearly a cut above. Carrick was by any yard stick an excellent footballer. But he had weaknesses that held him back, he wasn't very mobile, lacked leadership, authority and dynamism (he gained two of these finally in the 12/13 RVP year) and often shat himself when pressed, and/or maybe just didn't have the quick feet to get out of those spaces. Obviously on the flip side he had a lovely passing range and screened our defence well.

Busquets was for me so much better. He was almost impossible to press in his prime. Would get out of the most uncomfortable of spaces with absolute ease. Technically he was superior - quicker feet, better close control, better short passer, better playmaker etc It's only long passing where I'd give Carrick the edge.



I think Xavi would be worse at Iniesta's role than Iniesta would at Xavi's. I do agree that Xavi was undoubtedly better and the absolute best at controlling games but Iniesta was better and unrivalled as a ball carrier and playmaking as far as attacking midfield were concerned. Two very different players who were incredible together. Find it hard to compare them as they both reached such a high level in their specific role.

As for the CL, I think overstate the whole Xavi dependency of Barca and Spain. He was an important player. However, he wasn't an important player in their last CL win. Useful but not vital. And if you have three all time greats (in Spain's case two) - Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. The magic tends to get diminished as each of them go. So just because Xavi was the oldest of the three/two, people refer to his leaving as the key moment as if that alone underpins him being the most important part.

Xavi was more prolific than Iniesta though.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Can’t be tackled/pressed. Ridiculously dirty. Very Fernandinho like in a way. I’d say Carrick but he was anything but dirty.
He's a lot less mobile than Fernandinho and doesn't really play that similarly. I think I agree more with your second point in that he's similar to Carrick in some respects. Having said that, he's a lot more press-resistant than Carrick. And has better positioning.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Xavi had bigger impact on Barca's consistency throughout the season but Iniesta was easily the better big match player for them and Spain.
That is highly debatable and I'd argue it's the opposite.

Iniesita has more 'special moments' than Xavi, but it doesn't equate to him being the better big match player.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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That is highly debatable and I'd argue it's the opposite.

Iniesita has more 'special moments' than Xavi, but it doesn't equate to him being the better big match player.
Yeah I think I agree. The 2009 Champions League final. The 2012 Euro final. The 2nd leg against Chelsea in the 2009 UCL. So many big performances in Clásicos as well.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Xavi was more prolific than Iniesta though.
Iniesta's brilliance was never in his productivity but in providing the link between attack and defence. He was a very unique footballer and you have to watch Barcelona at their peak to appreciate what he added.

Two phenomenal players.

Keep forgetting this thread is about Busquets
 

2cents

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Iniesta's brilliance was never in his productivity but in providing the link between attack and defence. He was a very unique footballer and you have to watch Barcelona at their peak to appreciate what he added.

Two phenomenal players.

Keep forgetting this thread is about Busquets
It’s hard to discuss one without considering the other two. Collectively the greatest midfield in football history, and I’m not sure it’s even close.
 

Lee565

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Xabi Alonso was better for me, as well as kroos, I think even someone like bayern's Martinez would have slotted into that pep guardiola Barca side and been just as effective as busquets.
 

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Xabi Alonso was better for me, as well as kroos, I think even someone like bayern's Martinez would have slotted into that pep guardiola Barca side and been just as effective as busquets.
I don't think Martinez was anything like as good technically. Good player though...
 

ray24

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I think there was a considerable gap between Carrick and Busquets. As good as as Carrick was, he was never really an elite CM. All the bemoaning surrounding him here, for example, wasn't just because people didn't get the nuances of his role. It was also because the reference point at that time was Keane and Scholes who were clearly a cut above. Carrick was by any yard stick an excellent footballer. But he had weaknesses that held him back, he wasn't very mobile, lacked leadership, authority and dynamism (he gained two of these finally in the 12/13 RVP year) and often shat himself when pressed, and/or maybe just didn't have the quick feet to get out of those spaces. Obviously on the flip side he had a lovely passing range and screened our defence well.

Busquets was for me so much better. He was almost impossible to press in his prime. Would get out of the most uncomfortable of spaces with absolute ease. Technically he was superior - quicker feet, better close control, better short passer, better playmaker etc It's only long passing where I'd give Carrick the edge.



I think Xavi would be worse at Iniesta's role than Iniesta would at Xavi's. I do agree that Xavi was undoubtedly better and the absolute best at controlling games but Iniesta was better and unrivalled as a ball carrier and playmaking as far as attacking midfield were concerned. Two very different players who were incredible together. Find it hard to compare them as they both reached such a high level in their specific role.

As for the CL, I think overstate the whole Xavi dependency of Barca and Spain. He was an important player. However, he wasn't an important player in their last CL win. Useful but not vital. And if you have three all time greats (in Spain's case two) - Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. The magic tends to get diminished as each of them go. So just because Xavi was the oldest of the three/two, people refer to his leaving as the key moment as if that alone underpins him being the most important part.
The problem with Iniesta is that he couldn't suffocate the opposition the way Xavi did. Barca became a lot more vulnerable to counter attacks once Xavi is gone, and it's something the club still struggle with to this day.
 

cyberman

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Hugely overrated. Backed up by the fact he is only 32 and people talk about him from games 10 years ago. He got found out really quickly when modern football started gearing itself towards midfield pressure.
 

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Iniesta's brilliance was never in his productivity but in providing the link between attack and defence. He was a very unique footballer and you have to watch Barcelona at their peak to appreciate what he added.

Two phenomenal players.

Keep forgetting this thread is about Busquets
I know that, was just saying that, if Xavi was playing more directly and advanced, he would have been even more effective and prolific.
 

Kag

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Amazing. The Carrick debate is hilarious; one that wouldn’t exist anywhere on earth apart from RedCafe.
 

Stacks

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I think there was a considerable gap between Carrick and Busquets. As good as as Carrick was, he was never really an elite CM. All the bemoaning surrounding him here, for example, wasn't just because people didn't get the nuances of his role. It was also because the reference point at that time was Keane and Scholes who were clearly a cut above. Carrick was by any yard stick an excellent footballer. But he had weaknesses that held him back, he wasn't very mobile, lacked leadership, authority and dynamism (he gained two of these finally in the 12/13 RVP year) and often shat himself when pressed, and/or maybe just didn't have the quick feet to get out of those spaces. Obviously on the flip side he had a lovely passing range and screened our defence well.

Busquets was for me so much better. He was almost impossible to press in his prime. Would get out of the most uncomfortable of spaces with absolute ease. Technically he was superior - quicker feet, better close control, better short passer, better playmaker etc It's only long passing where I'd give Carrick the edge.



I think Xavi would be worse at Iniesta's role than Iniesta would at Xavi's. I do agree that Xavi was undoubtedly better and the absolute best at controlling games but Iniesta was better and unrivalled as a ball carrier and playmaking as far as attacking midfield were concerned. Two very different players who were incredible together. Find it hard to compare them as they both reached such a high level in their specific role.

As for the CL, I think overstate the whole Xavi dependency of Barca and Spain. He was an important player. However, he wasn't an important player in their last CL win. Useful but not vital. And if you have three all time greats (in Spain's case two) - Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. The magic tends to get diminished as each of them go. So just because Xavi was the oldest of the three/two, people refer to his leaving as the key moment as if that alone underpins him being the most important part.
As a CM Iniesta recorded 95 assists in 485 games. As a CM Xavi recorded 154 assists in 590. Also Spain fell apart once Xavi retired and Iniesta was still playing.........Xavi was the player of the tourmanent in 2008 with Senna, Iniesta (Left midfield) and Cazorla. Iniesta was shoved out on the left midfield and Xavi was just fine.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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I don't really agree with this way attempting to figure out who was better between Iniesta and Xavi by looking at what Barca/Spain was like when one or the other wasn't playing or at their prime. It's something you can easily do both ways if you want, but both were very collective players and those teams where one or the other was missing/not at best come with plenty of other factors than just those two. It's mostly stating the obvious but i'd contend it was the addition of Messi and him hitting the peak that he did that truly took Pep's Barca to that special level where despite all the talent on show, it was also a more than the sum of the parts team. Everybody else is secondary.

Without him you probably still get a great team that wins something, but not imo one likely to capture the imagination of so many as the best ever like it did.
 

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For all his quality, his antics sour my opinion of him. The way he acts like he's been shot every time he goes down is cringeworthy.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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I think he's overrated and at the very highest level he has been found out a little without Xavi and Iniesta. Still a very good DM obviously but people calling him one of the best of all-time in the position, I don't think he's that level.

Look how many times Barcelona have been smashed in big games in recent years with him at the base of midfield. Conceding 4+ goals in a game. In a lot of those games he's looked completely lost and couldn't hack the high pressure for someone that is supposed to be the best in the world at the position.

I don't think he's an all-time great, only just if you want to stick him in as part of the band as the Ringo Starr to the Paul McCartney and John Lennon.