N
Now
Cristiano Ronaldo should go down as top 5-6 players of all time
- Thread starter Interval
- Start date
Trolling how ?!
I must have had the GOAT conversation with myself 1000 times, it’s bordering on compulsive obsession to be honest.
Is anyone else weird like this?! In the end I had to stop myself obsessing and accept that it is subjective and what I am really asking is who is my favourite player.
A weird insight in to my strange brain for you all there! There was a time where I would think about this every day, I think I need help!
Is anyone else weird like this?! In the end I had to stop myself obsessing and accept that it is subjective and what I am really asking is who is my favourite player.
A weird insight in to my strange brain for you all there! There was a time where I would think about this every day, I think I need help!
Full of quality goals that.
I’ll help you... the answer is Ronaldo.
...in an alternate reality where Messi doesn't exist.I’ll help you... the answer is Ronaldo.
And Messi is GOAT in the alternate reality where Pele and Maradona don't exist....in an alternate reality where Messi doesn't exist.
H
He can't do any elásticos.
You rate Xavi that highly?
and if you transport pele to today he still won’t be as good of a playmaker or dribbler as Messi
Edit
Last edited:
Honestly, how anyone can give half a Fcuk about absolutely ranking is beyond me.
Anyone that does is generally desperately boring to talk about football with.
I enjoyed Ronaldo most before he went interstellar. I enjoyed Rooney most when he was imperfect. Le Tissier was a therapist away from Cantona in my opinion. Ronaldinho and Rivaldo are probably my favourite two players, for different reasons. (Edit : Shevcenko & Kaka were close here but I watched their league less)
Far easier to just throw things into a ‘Best Of’ category and actually enjoy stuff.
Anyone that does is generally desperately boring to talk about football with.
I enjoyed Ronaldo most before he went interstellar. I enjoyed Rooney most when he was imperfect. Le Tissier was a therapist away from Cantona in my opinion. Ronaldinho and Rivaldo are probably my favourite two players, for different reasons. (Edit : Shevcenko & Kaka were close here but I watched their league less)
Far easier to just throw things into a ‘Best Of’ category and actually enjoy stuff.
And you know that cause ?!?
I could say the same thing about Messi, put him in Pele's era and he'd be shit.
Both scenarios are just speculation, with nothing to back them up.
when does the official name change to ‘Ronaldocafe’ happen?
I agree. He’s a great player, couldn’t give a shit about where He’s ranked.
whoever game out with this GOAT crap has a lot to answer for. It’s ridiculous.
whoever I think is the best player is pretty irrelevant, what I can assure you is that I won’t spend days debating it with people who have a different view, and neither would change their mind...
So pointless.
You don't?
I think his first couple of seasons in Madrid were his best (considering the combo of flair with output). 06/07 he was electrifying yet faded a bit towards the end of the season. 07/08 was his best season for us, mind.
You mean MessaldoCafe?
It’s him and Messi at 1&2 the only debate is who’s first in my opinion. We’ve been blessed to see their careers in the full, once they retire and there’s nobody in world football getting close to their numbers the legendary status will rise even further.
From a philosophical standpoint, these threads show important competition is omnipresent in any aspect of our social regulation system.
Broadly speaking, football is always improving but these days there is a lack of excellent players great in terms of magic, creativity and dribbling skills.
The 80s was very certainly the most exciting decade to follow.
Neymar is likely to be inconsistent in the next years when not injured. So, the future seems to belong to Mbappaaland: strength, fantastic stats, great mindset.
Broadly speaking, football is always improving but these days there is a lack of excellent players great in terms of magic, creativity and dribbling skills.
The 80s was very certainly the most exciting decade to follow.
That’s not the the point. If Messi is a better dribbler and playmaker than Pele (which I don’t necessarily believe, because Pele could dribble exceptionally well, pass accurately with both feet and had a tremendous football IQ; Rivelino once said it seemed like he knew what he was going to do before he even received the ball) then the margin is tiny. In the air, it’s not remotely close. When you add up all the attributes a footballer can have, Pele has the most. That’s why he’s the greatest
Haaland and Mbappe will do similar numbers in Spain I reckon.
Isn’t it an average of 40 goals a season for about 15 years? very doubtful.
Imo those two probably wouldn’t get near their numbers every season, could be proven wrong but the consistency with Ronnie and Messi is what’s most incredible.
I don’t like the “GOAT” debates because there tends to be recency bias & a massive attacking player bias. He’s an all time great goal scorer, and has achieved some incredible feats in the game. I’ll give him that. He’s certainly a legendary player. It’s so difficult to say wether he’s top 5 of all time though. In terms of technical ability with a football at his feet, I would say no. In terms of overall impact, I’m not sure. It’s definitely a shout.
Pele didn’t have the benefits of modern day coaching & sports science. Had he played today he would without doubt be better & considerably, but he’d also be playing against much better defenders, so his overall impact is unknown. These past vs present debates are impossible because of how the game has evolved. Look at how much the game has changed in the last 20 years. Pele played in the 60’s for crying out loud. It’s impossible to say how good he would be now.
Ronaldo and Messi are obviously both great players, two of the best of all time. After saying that, you can't officially 'rank' them and it's just subjective as to who people prefer or rate slightly higher.
The most frustrating thing to me in the 'debate' is that, in general, you hear far more criticism and hatred towards Ronaldo than Messi, and I think hardly any of that is based on footballing ability and more on two other factors.
One, very superficial: Ronaldo is tall and good looking so most men resent him more and prefer the small, uglier Messi. Ridiculously trivial reason, but a very human failing.
Secondly, football tribalism: Ronaldo has performed his heroics for such hated teams as Man United and Real Madrid. I suspect if Ronaldo had played at Barcelona all his career, and Messi had been performing wonders for United and Madrid, then the levels of hatred would be different.
I think both are geniuses, along with many others of other generations, but I don't get into this 'GOAT' debate as it's subjective and impossible to prove.
The most frustrating thing to me in the 'debate' is that, in general, you hear far more criticism and hatred towards Ronaldo than Messi, and I think hardly any of that is based on footballing ability and more on two other factors.
One, very superficial: Ronaldo is tall and good looking so most men resent him more and prefer the small, uglier Messi. Ridiculously trivial reason, but a very human failing.
Secondly, football tribalism: Ronaldo has performed his heroics for such hated teams as Man United and Real Madrid. I suspect if Ronaldo had played at Barcelona all his career, and Messi had been performing wonders for United and Madrid, then the levels of hatred would be different.
I think both are geniuses, along with many others of other generations, but I don't get into this 'GOAT' debate as it's subjective and impossible to prove.
disagree, pele played on teams that were far more stacked than their rivals. Pele was winning world cups on teams where he barely played because Brazil was so far ahead of everyone else. In today’s era while Messi/Ronaldo have obviously played on stacked teams they’ve got much better competition now as well.
Pele as a playmaker isn’t what Messi is who is at another level. Can hardly remember when we had the best playmaker snd best scorer be the same person. Perhaps Maradona. But while it’s always hard to compare across different eras Messi is better at creating chances, better at free kicks, better at passing and may even overtake pele for goal scoring. Pele was amazing and should be given credit, but Messi is something that is even more alien than Pele
Barca aren’t hated?! What? People like Messi because he isn’t as handsome as Ronaldo? Uh no, Messi just has a far more aesthetically pleasing game than Ronaldo who became more machine like as his career went on after United. Barca are massively hated as are all major clubs. People still bring up the 2009 chelsea tie when dismissing Barca and all the uefalona jokes. Can’t agree with anything you said.
In what world would Messi be shit in the 60’s? He’s be fouled like crazy sure but he’s be running circles against teams that weren’t nearly as athletic back then as they are now. Football has evolved so much Messi would be shocking to them. Hell even mbappe would dominate back then, today’s athletes are better than ever. The talent pool is the greatest it has ever been.
Totally false. They were not ‘far ahead of everybody else’. Brazil had not won the World Cup before Pele came into the team in 1958 (8 years after the biggest humiliation in Brazilian football history) and they did not win it again for 24 years after he retired from the national team. The time you are probably referring to is in 1962, when he got injured. But that team were the defending champions and they had the attendant confidence. Plus the tournament was in Chile rather than Sweden.
It evens out. They play against artificially constructed superteams but they also play for such teams. Pele essentially only played with Brazilian teammates of varying quality (pre Cosmos). Take M and R out of those superteams and it suddenly becomes a bit tougher for them to excel in major competitions
False. You need to watch more of his matches if you think this. He’s every bit the playmaker that Messi is IMO. People only don’t realise this because they think he only scored goals.
All incorrect. He’s seriously not better at any of those things than Pele. I have a huge deal of respect for Messi and I think he’s a total genius, but I honestly think people have no conception of just how good Pele was, which is understandable. There’s never been a player who mastered as many aspects of the attacking game as he did, and that includes the great Lionel, who I’d put as 2nd or 3rd best since 1950.
Messi would be about 150 cm and not even in the talent pool if he grew up in Pelé's era.
The NT, but not Santos.
Last edited:
I rate him extremely high, but I don't know if I'd put him on that table with the others mentioned.
nope, Pele was equal to Messi in terms of talent, maybe Messi is better dribbler, but others, they are same level.
Pele was
Santos was ridiculously stacked side, arguably the greatest of all time.
I do think that midfielders, goalkeepers and defenders get shortchanged in these debates. For me he's the best midfielder of the past 20 years so that warrants a mention either on the general GOAT list, or we should just split these lists by position.
Ultimately goals are the most important part of the game, and the most difficult to do. Hence strikers and attacking midfielders tend to dominate such discussions. Because they are more important, their contributions more decisive, and harder to pull off
Xavi though is one of those rare exceptions who rank right up there with forwards, despite not being one
I think goal scoring/creation is more glamorous and lends itself better to these sorts of debates which is why these lists are goal scorer/creator heavy. I disagree with one role being significantly more important than another, but even accepting that as true, tiers are a much better way of doing this than lists partly because anyone who fully believes in a list they created (not having seen all the players in history) is full of shit. It's easier and more sensible to define position-agnostic criteria for each tier and then slot players into tiers as they qualify or not...
My problem with GOAT lists is the attempt to translate the US(mainly from the NBA) obsession with stats, lists and individuals into a more nuanced sport. Not only that, but given the worldwide nature of the sport, depth of top level talent and the financial disparity between teams individual rankings lists mean little more to me than a list of your favourite players.
Happy enough with ambiguous tiers, of which Messi and Ronaldo are clearly among the top tier. Are either the best ever? I don't care, and recognize that their stats are quite obviously inflated by playing in an era were top players grouping together on a small amount of teams have resulted in absurdly dominant team and individual seasons across all the main leagues.
Happy enough with ambiguous tiers, of which Messi and Ronaldo are clearly among the top tier. Are either the best ever? I don't care, and recognize that their stats are quite obviously inflated by playing in an era were top players grouping together on a small amount of teams have resulted in absurdly dominant team and individual seasons across all the main leagues.
This is my take as well
You make a good point. However, one doesn't need to see all the players in order to have a valid list. Players's achievements speak for themselves.
I have not seen Pele play live, and I suspect nobody on this forum has done that either. But his achievements clearly elevate him to the top 3 all time, if not absolute GOAT.
Please explain how he'd be able to run circles against them when he'd be injured and carried of the field on a stretcher ?!?
There were no yellow and red cards back then, remember ?!!! They'd literally break his legs. And even if he'd somehow survive that, he wouldn't have anywhere the ball control he has now since he'd have to use a heavier ball, boots while playing on an uneven and bumpy pitch.