I think personally its simple man-management by him. To basically tell the likes of Telles, Van De Beek that even if they do not play regularly, there is one competition in which they will feature consistently and have the chances. However, this set of players have largely let us down.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I'm Ole in. I'll turn on him when we show lack of progress or go backwards.Some posters in here
First we have to rebuild, then we have to wait the players to reach their peak, then the cups are an ego thing and now accumulated tiredness has caught up.
Pathetic goal post moving from the Ole fan Boys
At what point do the Ole in crowd will turn against our "beloved" manager?
He got it wrong yesterday. Managers are entitled to get it wrong though once in a while. There's a difference between criticising a bad day from Ole, like I will do, and a small online fraction of fans popping every time we lose wanting him out, and then stay quiet for the most part. Fans popping up mocking Ole in isolated incidents proves absolutely nothing.
We've gone from 6th to 3rd to 2nd in 3 seasons, this is a good trajectory and I'll keep supporting Ole until it reverses.
Exactly mate, agree completely. Good to see some sense on this thread.
Are Liverpool the 6th-8th best team without VVD & Gomez? Are they eck. They should be 2nd, or 3rd at a push. Not struggling to qualify for the Europa. They've handled it worse than the players they've lost. We handled it badly yesterday, and it is what it is. What I won't do is angrily question Ole's credentials and ability with every defeat.
I don't know if its just online fans, an age thing, or what. But I'm a season ticket holder, and my friends are season ticket holders and we seem to talk a lot less aggressively about Ole, win lose or draw.
So how did we end up top 2 in the league for the majority of the season, and have one of the best injury records in the league until about 2-3 weeks ago?
By magic?
Same way some of our players have played more minutes than anyone in Europe
I think one should also consider the magnitude of progress. There's a difference between a decent manager improving us little by little and a top manager transforming us. As one of the biggest and richest clubs in football I'd hope that we'd demand the latter from our managerial appointments. This isn't Spurs. Decent /good shouldn't do.
Another point is that Mourinhos meltdown season wasn't a good reflection of us as it was one of those everything was falling apart years. We did finish 2nd twelve months prior.
He makes rookie mistakes on a regular basis. I was tempted to make a thread titled 'Ole Gunnar Brainfart' as a way of keeping track of all the feck ups he makes. His decision of not subbing Fred at half time in the CL effectively got us knocked out. Having Shaw and Telles on the pitch at the same time vs Milan in the first leg sacrificed the team shape and invited pressure that led to a last minute equaliser, the list goes on.
Same way we as a club have probably played the most games due to being in every competition until the letter stages.
Liverpool getting KO'd from cup games early, for example doesn't get scrutinised does it, despite us out performing them. And as a result, we play more games. How do you rotate Bruno in March when Pogba and VDB is injured? Play Fred there?
I am not convinced that Ole is the answer but I doubt there is a manager in the world who could transform us immediately given the mess of a squad they inherited from Mourinho. And the club has been actually quite slow in backing Ole especially this season (although they do have the excuse of it being a COVID year). While there is no reason to have rose tinted glasses vis-a-vis Ole but fans also need to get out of the la-la-land that there is a manager who can just simply turn us to be world class at a swish of the wand. We have legitimately big gaps in the squad that continue and till the time the club fully backs a manager and we have one who gets it right, we are going to keep going around this.
Whats Liverpool got to do with how ever many clubs there are in Europe? Ole doesn't rotate some players enough which is why he couldn't play Bruno in one of the biggest games at this stage of the season
Maguire pretty much plays every minute, someone like Tuanzebe didn't get many minutes after his performance against PSG
Some good points made re the schedule and how Ole has managed it, he should be credited for our league position and performances this season for sure. What irks me about last night was the basic errors and then inconceivable substitutions. The attitude and mentality, which is what the manager is there to get out of the players (as I was reminded of on a monthly basis under Jose!). He doesn't get a let off for other successes, this is supposed to be amongst the biggest jobs in world football, the bar is very very high.
So how are we 2nd in the league with all these mistakes? How have we lost so few games in the last 12 months? You say the list goes on, shall we do the same for every other manager? Do you honestly think we're better than 2nd in the league? Do you expect us to be top?
Fred not being subbed in the CL angered the hell out of me, I was shocked - but I criticise Ole for it in a constructive way, I don't call for him to lose his job. And in reality, we got KO'd from the CL because we lost in Turkey. The players were awful in that game. We did invite the pressure against Milan, again, poor game from Ole, but I don't call for his head, I just think he should do better.
He's taken us from 6th to 3rd to 2nd in 3 seasons. The trajectory is there, the squad building is there, the exile of dead wood is there, the academy integration into the first team is there, the decision making is (on the whole) there.
He can do better, and he tends to learn from his mistakes, hence we're 2nd and comfortably in CL football next season instead of battling with the likes of Liverpool, Spurs, West Ham etc.
We have a very good team
Whats wrong with Maguire playing every minute? The guy doesn't get injured and leads our back line and is a huge reason why we have so many clean sheets since he signed. It's almost like Ole knows his players, isn't it? He wouldn't play Shaw every minute, for example, because he needs more rest.
Tuanzebe played in Turkey and was awful, so don't give me that. He will no doubt go on to develop into a very good player, but I'm willing to bet, if the type of rotation you want had happened, we'd be lower than 2nd in the league, as we would have less quality on the pitch in some of the games we narrowly won.
Like I said, he got the rotation completely wrong yesterday. He should have started Bruno, Shaw, McTomminay in my opinion, but I think he on the whole has got things correct - hence we're 2nd and not 5th.
The manager telling us hes tired
Oh dear. Liverpool have a very good team. Spurs have a very good team. Chelsea have a very good team. Dortmund have a very good team, PSG have a very good team. I could go on.
Where are they all in their leagues. Why are we outperforming everybody but the incredible City in the PL?
If Ole was a sh!t manager, we'd be below Liverpool.
So? Whats wrong with that?
Another example was 3-3 vs Everton, Solskjaer subbed Greenwood for Tuanzebe without instructing the attack who needs to cover the right wing. The team shape was again sacrificed leaving a hole, the pressure from Everton came from the right side, ending up with an equaliser from Everton.
Him learning from his mistakes is very questionable, he has made the same choices repeatedly in the past that make you question whether he actually pays attention to what solution works and what doesn't. The squad has improved as has the league position, but he's spent a shitload of cash to get there. He is a good judge of ability and knows how to ride a good run of form, but he makes too many mistakes to be relied on as consistent. Title winning teams need consistent managers, Solskjaer is as inconsistent at managing as Rashford or Martial is at playing football.
Yes, and I'd understand your point had Ole kept all of the same players from Mourinho's reign and then broke even with 2nd place 3 years later. I'd agree and say, we've made no progress.
However, he got rid of half the squad, weeded out so much dead wood, negative personalities that were bad for our club. He performed the biggest cultural reset since Fergie did the same in 1986-1990. Therefore that requires time, and we dropped in standards, and now I'm seeing standards rise again.
I'll be the first to call time on Ole if/when we spiral backwards, or he loses the dressing room. But the trajectory is there with a new squad.
1. Never said Ole was shit
2. We would be behind Liverpool without their crisis
3. We have a better squad than Spurs
4. PSG are top and still in the UCL? They were involved in our exit?
And were their pre-seasons wiped out like ours?
Those are teams that have been strong and competitive for a while. We’re trying to stack a team on its legs while negotiating these issues. People judging this like a regular season need to have a deeper think.
Again, I was fuming with Everton. But you don't sack your manager after 10 poor games out of about 140-150.
Taking a handful of games in isolation away from the rest of his tenure that has many, many good performances as United manager, isn't fair. A fair way to measure it is his league finishes. That's how I judge it. 6th to 3rd, to currently 2nd .... is good trajectory whilst handling a complete culture/transfer reboot.
You can watch us go back to 4th at best next year. Liverpool won't play without defenders for most of the season and Chelsea won't have Lampard.
1. My original posts were explaining why I'm not Ole out. So if you don't think Ole is sh!t, that's fine by me, happy to move on
2. I refuse to believe Liverpool are in a crisis. They've lost 3 CB's, 1 of which they had for half the season. They've had CB's sat on the bench whilst refusing to play them. Many Liverpool fans believe Klopp has invited this crisis on to them by making an absolute meal out of it. Lets also not forget they lost 7-3 to Villa, before their injury crisis, they have looked indifferent since about March, way before their "crisis". So I don't buy that we '"would be behind Liverpool" - that's an entirely subjective statement to make. And the fact is, we're miles ahead of Liverpool despite having injuries of our own. Leicester are miles ahead of Liverpool despite having just as much of a "crisis" as Liverpool if not worse.
3. I'd say they have a similar squad, but ours would probably shade it. They have 3-4 players that would walk into our team. My point is, they're miles behind us in the league, they've handled the season badly, their manager has handled it badly - ours hasn't and we haven't. We're 2nd they're somewhere mid-table.
4. PSG are a top team and should well be in the CL. They should also be miles clear in their league but aren't. They've got two of the best attacking players in world football amongst others. They're a state-owned team with endless cash. They should be walking it like City. But they're not. When you compare most other teams as I have done, Ole and United haven't handled the season all that badly. 2nd from 3rd, and 3rd from 6th is excellent trajectory. I'm happy to see him gone if we go backwards in the future. He got it wrong yesterday but it doesn't warrant losing his job.
Chelsea couldn't beat us with Touchel, Liverpool had VVD playing in CB when they shipped 7 v's Aston Villa and lets not forget their form turned when they lost to Watford in front of fans and they had no injuries. We will also strengthen. You're happy to sack our manager based on a presumption that we'll slump to 4th?
Hey, I'll be right along side you calling for change if/when it happens, but to sack a manager that's taken us from 6th to 3rd to 2nd is just madness.
2. Pretty sure pool were top before Jota got injured
3. We have a much better squad than them
4. Why include them in the convo
2. Pool had a full strength squad when they started losing, back in March when they got spanked by Watford.
3. Disagree
4. Because they're severely underperforming in the league despite their bankroll and squad ability
So the barometer of success is league position, guess only winning it next season will count then. . .No clue...Second in the league.
2. Riiiggghhhtttt
It is very important he finishes 2nd this season. It is a must to finish the season on a positive note. Trophy would be amazing but I think we will bottle the europa too. So at least finish as high as possible collecting as many points as possible.
There's a whole scale of ability between being clueless and winning the EPL.So the barometer of success is league position, guess only winning it next season will count then. . .
I'm calling out the shitposters who throw around terms like clueless, dross, bad coaching - when the facts say otherwise.
We've only played one more game than City in that period, a handful more than others but not that many. However we had a shorter (non-existant) pre-season compared to most. I think its very noticeable that most top sides are struggling to produce consistent form this season, and the European leagues do not have the strength of competition that we are facing.
EDIT
I looked at this further because the question is interesting
Fixtures since December 1st
Real Madrid 23
Barcelona 28
Bayern 24
Milan 27
No European teams seem to come that close to United's 32 matches. Our recent opponents Milan at 27 seems so close as to be insignificant, but its actually 5 midweek dates they haven't had to play when United have. Our play, recover, prepare, play schedule must be a car crash to manage
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I dont think any of us can comprehend how difficult it must be to manage a large squad of players with the pressure that managers are under.
I posted somewhere else about our schedule this month. City A, Milan H, West Ham A, Milan A, Leicester A - all must win matches. In terms of priorities there is no way that he can not put a higher importance on anything that doesn't potentially lead to CL football. I have no idea how much pressure he would get from Woodward and the money men on anything, but I'm near certain they will be in his ear about the importance of the revenue CL will bring next season. Its absolutely vital, and I'm sure we will see the difference in spending this summer between those who are in it and those who are not.
I'm not sure I feel that these players have let us down either. Maybe one or two, but for the most part the word I would use to describe this squad is resilient. To lose only 4 in the last 43 league games, in this schedule, is something to be proud of. Yesterday was just a step too far. Leicester were on the top of their game and we looked like what we are - a group of players that he either played too much or not enough, and I don't mean that to read as a criticism of him. As I said above, the challenges in managing a squad are completely alien to us at home.
What I'm hoping for in this Int'l break is that we can find some creative solutions to make sure our players aren't flogged to death. Our April schedule isn't any easier.
I’m interested in you listing another five more than I am you starting a thread about it. What are they?
Well when LVG said the football Ole played was as bad as Mourinho every fan was up in arms. Seems his assessment from many seasons ago was correct.
I think everyone and his dog knows this is not something Ole will offer. It will take an exceedingly good coach to get the most out of the starting 11. That's why many on here are using the amount spent as a justification to judge the manager.
To play devil's advocate here, that stat looks great in isolation but we have drawn a large amount of those games. Mourinho went on a long run which was remarkably similar. I am really not a fan of these stats which span seasons but, in order to match the 43 game sample you have given, this hopefully gives you an idea of just how similar the form was/is.
| 43 match streak | W | D | L | Total | Points |
| Ole | 25 | 14 | 4 | 43 | 89 |
| Jose | 24 | 13 | 6 | 43 | 85 |
| Ole | 58% | 32% | 9% | ||
| Jose | 55% | 30% | 13% |
This isn't to knock either manager but rather to caution the use of that stat as an indicator of performance. Both Ole/Mou had/have the same issue with dropping too many points through drawing matches. Bear in mind if you take their actual form (as in don't span seasons) it's a lot less pretty. There's a reason a W is worth 3 points and a D only 1, it's because risk generally will equal reward over the course of a season and that's where our attitude needs to change for me.
Most draws this season in the top 6: Ole and Lampard/Tuchel combo (11)
Most draws in top 6 last season: Ole (12)
Most draws in top 6 18/19: Chelsea and Ole/Mou combo (9)
Edit: corrected table
We've seen Ole in a normal season and he was just as bad. People aren't basing this off just this season. Hes been here 2.5 years and we aren't much better than his caretaker period.
OK so progress, by playing the exact same thing we did under Mourinho or not challenging for a cup because, after all it's just an ego thing.
After 2,5 years in charge we don't look like a team, I'd say we look more like 11 individuals having met at the Lowry 2 hours before the game. I don't mind that we don't have a specific style of play but I do mind that when we have the ball we don't have a clue what to do with it.
We can't play from the back, but not because of the players. I refuse to accept that Leeds, Brighton, Southampton and many more (not even gonna mention City or Pool) have better players and that we simply should replace x or y player cause he doesn't do much.
Anyway, it depends what someone considers progress. I don't see it. He steadied the ship and shit, but after the Mou debacle even big Sam could do it. His transfers are hit and miss as every previous manager, for every Bruno there is a Dan James. His style of play, questionable at best, non-existent by some.
The big difference with the previous managers is that they actually won something (except Moyes, totally out of his depth as Ole) and didn't call a trophy an ego thing just because he knows it's out of reach.
Because you know, after all everyone remembers the winner and for the last 2,5 years the only time that we didn't bottle it was the last game of 19/20. Every other fecking time that it really mattered we bottled it. 4 semis the Champions League group stage and last night.
Love Ole the player, but Ole the manager is totally out of his depth and shouldn't been here in the first place
For there to be any positive in finishing second we need to finish really strongly and win pretty much every game and win Europa.
If City win 3 or 4 trophies it’s going to be pretty laughable trying to convince anyone we have any chance of getting near them unless we put down some sort of marker between now and end of season.
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