Fred - £47m well spent

Fahad Jawaid · Mar 23, 2021

He is the Phil Neville and Alan Smith type of midfielder, in fact to be fair of these two they never gave the ball away this much. Their prime responsibility was to breakup play and pass it to somebody like Scholes or Giggs or Keane. Whereas Fred or Mctominay break up play and keep passing it to each other, until one of them gives it away to the opposition. That's the big difference. SAF always ensured that one of the pivot was a ball playing midfielder, whereas we have two loafs who don't have an ounce of technical ability between them, and they can't pass through the lines its all sideways and backwards with them.

Say what you want about Ander, but we have missed having him there, i was hoping VDB would be our Ander with the scoring ability. However it has turned south, but i still have high hopes from him.

We need a big transfer window in which we need to sign a CB, CM and RW and above all keep Pogba. I hope Newcastle and Brighton go down, and if we have an ounce of cleverness as a club, we would snap up Saint Maxim (Newcastle) and White (Brighton) for smaller transfer fees.

Then we can sign a DM who has technical ability to play through the press alongside being a ball winner. The biggest part is if we keep Pogba and Cavani we would not need to spend a lot just need to plug the gaps with the specific players and we are grand.

Fahad Jawaid · Mar 23, 2021

Seriously what i would do to have Carrick in there, seeing him and Mctominay in there makes me love Carrick even more, despite the fact that i used to think he should have imposed himself against big sides (Barca and those two finals). Whereas i don't even want to think about Scholes, it just makes me sad, we really have fecked up as a club, not signing Thiago (Moyes Days) and Kroos (Moyes or LVG) when we had a golden chance. Whereas now the only CM, who is actually of any good (Pogba), we will probably lose him this summer, its just depressing. If Pogba goes we need to sign Saul to replace him alongside a DM somebody like Rice or Camavinga.

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg · Mar 23, 2021

Simply put, he’s not good enough.

if he was playing for a team like Newcastle or Southampton, there would be no big clubs looking at him.

he could do a role as a squad player, but he’s no better than Schneiderlin or Djemba x 2.

the fact we spend £50m on him makes it worse, but he still wouldn’t be good enough as a £20m signing.

if we sold him this summer we would be lucky to get 8 figures for him. So he’s here to stay.

its but his fault we don’t have better players, but when you consider what we’ve wasted on midfielders since SAF retired.

Fred, Matic, Fellaini, Schweingstiger, Schneiderlain, DVDB. That’s £200m wasted.

perhaps SAF had the right idea by not buying a midfielder for close to a decade...

Makes you appreciate Pogba so much more!

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg · Mar 23, 2021

HerbT said:
Is Fred worth the £47M he cost?

Yes, undoubtedly and IMO he’d show himself worth much more if he played in a well coached / organised team rather than a poorly schooled group of generally brilliant individuals.

I suppose that the acid test is to compare him to other buys and on that basis, if Maguire was worth £80M then Fred is worth at least that or more.

The poor bloke gets a regular kicking from some supporters but it’s misplaced aggression that should be aimed at the coaching and tactics that leave him so badly exposed so often.

poor wind up attempt.

amolbhatia50k · Mar 23, 2021

acrebo said:
It's been summarised over and over but... how on earth we keep playing a midfielder who can't control, pass or shoot is beyond me.

Genuinely, our standards are such that the only prerequisite for becoming a 'holding' midfielder in our team is to run around lots. Not necessarily at the right times or places, but just lots.

That's the issue. He has games when it comes off. But in terms of having an assured touch, composure, consistency, pure defending, and any semplence of attacking thread, Fred is lacking

11101 · Mar 23, 2021

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Simply put, he’s not good enough.

if he was playing for a team like Newcastle or Southampton, there would be no big clubs looking at him.

By contrast, if he was playing for City in the Rodri position he would be one of their key players. That's why he was Pep's original target to replace Fernandinho before he came here. He is a system player and unless we put out our perfect starting 11 we are nowhere near that system.

Maybe that means we shouldn't have bought him, but to me it's more like we should be moving towards that system.

amolbhatia50k · Mar 23, 2021

11101 said:
By contrast, if he was playing for City in the Rodri position he would be one of their key players. That's why he was Pep's original target to replace Fernandinho before he came here. He is a system player and unless we put out our perfect starting 11 we are nowhere near that system.

Maybe that means we shouldn't have bought him, but to me it's more like we should be moving towards that system.

Fernandinho is twice the player. If he signed for City he'd be one of their flop signings as his technical qualities are all over the place. They got lucky with Sanchez and Fred.

Conor · Mar 23, 2021

11101 said:
By contrast, if he was playing for City in the Rodri position he would be one of their key players. That's why he was Pep's original target to replace Fernandinho before he came here. He is a system player and unless we put out our perfect starting 11 we are nowhere near that system.

Maybe that means we shouldn't have bought him, but to me it's more like we should be moving towards that system.

I'm not sure he'd be anywhere near the City team, his passing is far too erratic.

11101 · Mar 23, 2021

amolbhatia50k said:
Fernandinho is twice the player. If he signed for City he'd be one of their flop signings as his technical qualities are all over the place. They got lucky with Sanchez and Fred.

He would have movement all around him, he would be fine. His problems come when he is forced to hold on to the ball under pressure with no passing options. That almost never happens at City.

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg · Mar 23, 2021

11101 said:
By contrast, if he was playing for City in the Rodri position he would be one of their key players. That's why he was Pep's original target to replace Fernandinho before he came here. He is a system player and unless we put out our perfect starting 11 we are nowhere near that system.

Maybe that means we shouldn't have bought him, but to me it's more like we should be moving towards that system.

disagree with you entirely.

firstly, just because Pep may have been interested, doesn’t mean he would have worked, Pep’s transfer record is as patchy as anyone else. But he’s in a position, where is a £50m player doesn’t work, then just buy another.
I really don’t think Fees would work at City, jig at all.

even if you were somewhat right, he’s not a player to build a ‘system’ around.

he’s been poor, and really doesn’t have any stand out qualities aside from energy. Not a player to build a ‘system’ around. You could argue that for someone like Pogba, as he’s outrageously talented, and you could (potentially) get the best out of him by building a team/ system around him.

you don’t do that with a painfully average player.

Bwuk · Mar 23, 2021

If he’d signed for City he’d of been to replace Delph.

He’d be by far the worst technical player in that side.

SuperiorXI · Mar 23, 2021

paulscholes18 said:
Unfortunately it has got to the point I would have been more surprised if he hadn’t, social media platforms need to do a lot more to combat racism.

I agree. Every week it seems to happen now to players from all clubs... the more awareness that is spread the more frequently it seems to happen. I think before these comments were simply not highlighted which is probably not the right way to do it either. The trouble is how to identify these scumbags without breaking privacy laws or introducing worrying loopholes.

In addition to this, not only has Fred been racially abused but also just downright abused. I would be surprised if they even bother with social media after a bad game, it can't be good for mental health. Imagine after a bad day of work, you're already upset about not performing then you have a torrent of abuse to enjoy!

11101 · Mar 23, 2021

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
disagree with you entirely.

firstly, just because Pep may have been interested, doesn’t mean he would have worked, Pep’s transfer record is as patchy as anyone else. But he’s in a position, where is a £50m player doesn’t work, then just buy another.
I really don’t think Fees would work at City, jig at all.

even if you were somewhat right, he’s not a player to build a ‘system’ around.

he’s been poor, and really doesn’t have any stand out qualities aside from energy. Not a player to build a ‘system’ around. You could argue that for someone like Pogba, as he’s outrageously talented, and you could (potentially) get the best out of him by building a team/ system around him.

you don’t do that with a painfully average player.

Not build a system around him, but build the type of system he fits in. Its what we should be aiming for. High tempo, high pressing is winning everything nowadays and is what we have attempted to do ourselves in fits and spurts. Sit deep and counter is outdated and easy to figure out in the modern game.

amolbhatia50k · Mar 23, 2021

11101 said:
He would have movement all around him, he would be fine. His problems come when he is forced to hold on to the ball under pressure with no passing options. That almost never happens at City.

He has many problems. His touch and passing are terribly inconsistent and it's convenient to put it all on the team. It's hardly as though it's impossible to fail at City. You have to be an excellent footballer to make it at elite teams. And he's simply not one. He'd probably be a decent option for them but he'd have to improve his composure, recklessness, passing as well as touch. In fact City play with a holding midfielder and he's quite puny to make it in that role.

Dirty Schwein · Mar 23, 2021

I hate seeing names like Fred and Matic in our team. How far we've fallen with our recruitment. If Fred was playing for Villa, I wonder how many people would say "yo, we should buy that dude". My guess is none.

He's not good enough and somehow is in our starting 11.

Kostov · Mar 23, 2021

11101 said:
Not build a system around him, but build the type of system he fits in. Its what we should be aiming for. High tempo, high pressing is winning everything nowadays and is what we have attempted to do ourselves in fits and spurts. Sit deep and counter is outdated and easy to figure out in the modern game.

You mean like Liverpool at their prime? You still need to be a much better footballer than Fred is to succeed at that type of system as well.

harms · Mar 23, 2021

What’s even weirder is that his trademark move at Shakhtar was to take the ball from his center backs, break the pressure (usually by dribbling) and move the ball forward. Exactly what he has been struggling to do with us time after time.

TrustInJanuzaj · Mar 23, 2021

Funny how revisionist and reactionary the caf is. Fred is a very good player who offers attributes we require and he would do that job at other top teams too. The difference is we don't have the required quality in our supporting cast to compliment the players we already have. The same goes for McTominay too, although I'd argue its harder to fit him into a top side.

Cassidy · Mar 23, 2021

TrustInJanuzaj said:
Funny how revisionist and reactionary the caf is. Fred is a very good player who offers attributes we require and he would do that job at other top teams too. The difference is we don't have the required quality in our supporting cast to compliment the players we already have. The same goes for McTominay too, although I'd argue its harder to fit him into a top side.

Which top teams does he get into in the PL? For me he is a couple of levels below a top team, one of the main reasons is his inconsistent passing and touch

HerbT · Mar 23, 2021

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
poor wind up attempt.

In all honesty, no, not a wind up.
I make no attempt to hide who I support but I’m also a football supporter and watch a lot of United. I come on here to chew the fat with other football supporters and I don’t ever intend to annoy anyone.

If you can remember, both City and United had an interest in Fred but Untied were willing to go the extra mile on fee & wages so City stepped back. Well, in my humble opinion, if he’d gone to City and was playing in a side that were schooled by a master in playing out from the back, holding a high line and always having players available, then you’d see how good he is and wish you’d have bought him.

The fact is that you’ve got the highest wage bill in the PL and that’s because you’ve got a squad of very expensive and equally very excellent professional football players. But I regularly see some of your supporters slagging these players off for playing clunky football when the reason it sometimes gets clunky is because they’re poorly trained and poorly set up.

And I’m not knocking Ole when I say this.
He might not have it in him to be able to get his players ticking like a Swiss watch. But he often gets his tactics spot on, he’s certainly got the measure of Pep and he’s got you up in 2nd place so he’s pretty damn competent in many aspects.
My point is more that the training methods employed at United often produce disconnected play that can make otherwise fantastic players look less than they are.
Fred would be winning plaudits in a side that was better coached, pure and simple.

In brief; He’s worth his purchase price and I’d be glad to see him in a blue shirt. I’m not winding you up, this is my honest opinion.

Scottynaldinho · Mar 23, 2021

The problem I have with him is how limited is his passing. Even if he sees a pass, he almost always fails to execute it.

Another worry is how he cannot switch the play because of his inability to get any elevation on his long passes.

Squad player at best suited for games where we've to break the play in the middle.

TrustInJanuzaj · Mar 23, 2021

Cassidy said:
Which top teams does he get into in the PL? For me he is a couple of levels below a top team, one of the main reasons is his inconsistent passing and touch

He would have done a good job for City when they were interested a few years ago as he would have been expected to sweep up in midfield and keep the passing simple, things he can't do at Utd as he doesn't have a suitable partner. He would be great under Klopp in a high press system. I think he is better than the current version of Kante at Chelsea who is just as, if not more technically limited. Walks in Arsenal and really he would likely play at Spurs too. The thing is most of this forum would have said the same just a few months ago when he was on form but he's having a poor spell and is off the back of his worst game in ages against Leicester so that's obviously skewing the current perception. At his best, he's not that wasteful in possession and he wins an awful lot of ball, at his worst, I agree he's too sloppy. Ultimately he is a little inconsistent in his touch and passing but that's only really an issue because his partner is equally crap on the ball, alongside Pogba you see it less and alongside someone like Carrick he would be back to being heralded as world-class. As usual, this forum flip flops based on a game though.

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg · Mar 23, 2021

HerbT said:
In all honesty, no, not a wind up.
I make no attempt to hide who I support but I’m also a football supporter and watch a lot of United. I come on here to chew the fat with other football supporters and I don’t ever intend to annoy anyone.

If you can remember, both City and United had an interest in Fred but Untied were willing to go the extra mile on fee & wages so City stepped back. Well, in my humble opinion, if he’d gone to City and was playing in a side that were schooled by a master in playing out from the back, holding a high line and always having players available, then you’d see how good he is and wish you’d have bought him.

The fact is that you’ve got the highest wage bill in the PL and that’s because you’ve got a squad of very expensive and equally very excellent professional football players. But I regularly see some of your supporters slagging these players off for playing clunky football when the reason it sometimes gets clunky is because they’re poorly trained and poorly set up.

And I’m not knocking Ole when I say this.
He might not have it in him to be able to get his players ticking like a Swiss watch. But he often gets his tactics spot on, he’s certainly got the measure of Pep and he’s got you up in 2nd place so he’s pretty damn competent in many aspects.
My point is more that the training methods employed at United often produce disconnected play that can make otherwise fantastic players look less than they are.
Fred would be winning plaudits in a side that was better coached, pure and simple.

In brief; He’s worth his purchase price and I’d be glad to see him in a blue shirt. I’m not winding you up, this is my honest opinion.

if you can call Pep, you can have him...

What I would say, it just because City were (potentially) interested in a player, doesn’t mean he should be quality.

Pep’s transfer record is patchy - as is every managers.

look at Sanchez, he would have been a disaster at City as much as he was at United. It’s not a barometer of quality because City were interested in him.

TrustInJanuzaj · Mar 23, 2021

HerbT said:
In all honesty, no, not a wind up.
I make no attempt to hide who I support but I’m also a football supporter and watch a lot of United. I come on here to chew the fat with other football supporters and I don’t ever intend to annoy anyone.

If you can remember, both City and United had an interest in Fred but Untied were willing to go the extra mile on fee & wages so City stepped back. Well, in my humble opinion, if he’d gone to City and was playing in a side that were schooled by a master in playing out from the back, holding a high line and always having players available, then you’d see how good he is and wish you’d have bought him.

The fact is that you’ve got the highest wage bill in the PL and that’s because you’ve got a squad of very expensive and equally very excellent professional football players. But I regularly see some of your supporters slagging these players off for playing clunky football when the reason it sometimes gets clunky is because they’re poorly trained and poorly set up.

And I’m not knocking Ole when I say this.
He might not have it in him to be able to get his players ticking like a Swiss watch. But he often gets his tactics spot on, he’s certainly got the measure of Pep and he’s got you up in 2nd place so he’s pretty damn competent in many aspects.
My point is more that the training methods employed at United often produce disconnected play that can make otherwise fantastic players look less than they are.
Fred would be winning plaudits in a side that was better coached, pure and simple.

In brief; He’s worth his purchase price and I’d be glad to see him in a blue shirt. I’m not winding you up, this is my honest opinion.

Excellent post this and agree with every word. Nice to get some perspective from an opposition fan. He would be brilliant at City and I stand by that.

BusbyMalone · Mar 23, 2021

Judas said:
Yes it's the tactics and coaching why he can't control a ball, pass well, shoot, easily outmuscled, clumsy tackler, often targeted by the opposition as he's an obvious weakness in one of the most important areas of the pitch. Aye.

Seems like a dereliction of duty from the manager to continue to pick him at that point, then

Cassidy · Mar 23, 2021

TrustInJanuzaj said:
He would have done a good job for City when they were interested a few years ago as he would have been expected to sweep up in midfield and keep the passing simple, things he can't do at Utd as he doesn't have a suitable partner. He would be great under Klopp in a high press system. I think he is better than the current version of Kante at Chelsea who is just as, if not more technically limited. Walks in Arsenal and really he would likely play at Spurs too. The thing is most of this forum would have said the same just a few months ago when he was on form but he's having a poor spell and is off the back of his worst game in ages against Leicester so that's obviously skewing the current perception. At his best, he's not that wasteful in possession and he wins an awful lot of ball, at his worst, I agree he's too sloppy. Ultimately he is a little inconsistent in his touch and passing but that's only really an issue because his partner is equally crap on the ball, alongside Pogba you see it less and alongside someone like Carrick he would be back to being heralded as world-class. As usual, this forum flip flops based on a game though.

Not sure Pep is having a player whos passing game is so inconsistent and whos first touch isn't so polished

TrustInJanuzaj · Mar 23, 2021

Cassidy said:
Not sure Pep is having a player whos passing game is so inconsistent and whos first touch isn't so polished

His short game passing is largely consistent and alongside a better partner, he wouldn't have to attempt the killer ball so often. Pep teams rarely pass it longer than 5 yards. His touch really isn't a massive issue either, certainly capable of controlling most passes to him.

McGrathsipan · Mar 23, 2021

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Simply put, he’s not good enough.

if he was playing for a team like Newcastle or Southampton, there would be no big clubs looking at him.

he could do a role as a squad player, but he’s no better than Schneiderlin or Djemba x 2.

the fact we spend £50m on him makes it worse, but he still wouldn’t be good enough as a £20m signing.

if we sold him this summer we would be lucky to get 8 figures for him. So he’s here to stay.

its but his fault we don’t have better players, but when you consider what we’ve wasted on midfielders since SAF retired.

Fred, Matic, Fellaini, Schweingstiger, Schneiderlain, DVDB. That’s £200m wasted.

perhaps SAF had the right idea by not buying a midfielder for close to a decade...

Makes you appreciate Pogba so much more!

Fred should be at Coventry or similar. Him as a starter at a club with title ambitions is laughable. Maybe , and only just maybe he could be kept as an impact sub when you need to bring someone on that will run and stretch a very tired opponent.

Another example of the club putting up with a very very average player just becasue they were butt fecked by the price paid for him.

Maticmaker · Mar 23, 2021

The most positive thing about Fred is that despite his way of playing/tackling etc. he seems to sustain very few injuries and consequently gets more game time than his more skilled contemporaries ?
That must be worth something... but £47m?

Fred tries hard and he has some undoubted energy reserves, but the rest of his skills are undermined either by sudden attacks of nervous energy, or a lack of perception and timing, and he doesn't at times seem able to see the 'small picture' going on around himself, never mind the 'big picture' for the team.

Its certainly scratch your head time for Ole with this guy. Sea shanty's are popular just now, so perhaps we need a "What shall we do with Freddy..." ditty, to the tune of (... a Drunken Sailor!).

Solius · Mar 23, 2021

Scottynaldinho said:
The problem I have with him is how limited is his passing. Even if he sees a pass, he almost always fails to execute it.

Another worry is how he cannot switch the play because of his inability to get any elevation on his long passes.

Squad player at best suited for games where we've to break the play in the middle.

This is a problem both Fred and McTominay have. I'd say maybe twice per game they'll play a pass out wide with elevation, but the only players we have who are good at it are Bruno and Pogba. Rashford to an extent can do it better than Fred and McTom.

Falcow · Mar 23, 2021

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Simply put, he’s not good enough.

if he was playing for a team like Newcastle or Southampton, there would be no big clubs looking at him.

he could do a role as a squad player, but he’s no better than Schneiderlin or Djemba x 2.

the fact we spend £50m on him makes it worse, but he still wouldn’t be good enough as a £20m signing.

if we sold him this summer we would be lucky to get 8 figures for him. So he’s here to stay.

its but his fault we don’t have better players, but when you consider what we’ve wasted on midfielders since SAF retired.

Fred, Matic, Fellaini, Schweingstiger, Schneiderlain, DVDB. That’s £200m wasted.

perhaps SAF had the right idea by not buying a midfielder for close to a decade...

Makes you appreciate Pogba so much more!

Most of your post is complete bollocks. Particularly the bit about him being no better than Djemba Djemba.

Clearly Pogba is the more talented player however Fred has done more for us over the last 2 years than Pogba has. The last 10 games being a perfect example of this i.e. Pogba being unavailable for almost all if them.

He has had a shit run of form recently but there is no reason to wet the bed and compare him to Djemba Djemba.

Kostov · Mar 23, 2021

This "he would be brilliant at City" line is laughable, Pep would probably send him to trim the grass considering how shit of a passer he is.

Kostov · Mar 23, 2021

TrustInJanuzaj said:
His short game passing is largely consistent and alongside a better partner, he wouldn't have to attempt the killer ball so often. Pep teams rarely pass it longer than 5 yards. His touch really isn't a massive issue either, certainly capable of controlling most passes to him.

You mean like his pass back to Henderson on Sunday?

TrustInJanuzaj · Mar 23, 2021

Kostov said:
You mean like his pass back to Henderson on Sunday?

It was an awful pass in an awful performance from Fred wouldn't deny that but that can happen to any player.

Kostov · Mar 23, 2021

TrustInJanuzaj said:
It was an awful pass in an awful performance from Fred wouldn't deny that but that can happen to any player.

Am I wrong in thinking this has happened with him couple of times before? I remember a goal we conceded against Watford because of similar mistake by him. Yes it can happen to many players, but midfielder at United probably not.

TrustInJanuzaj · Mar 23, 2021

Kostov said:
Am I wrong in thinking this has happened with him couple of times before? I remember a goal we conceded against Watford because of similar mistake by him. Yes it can happen to many players, but midfielder at United probably not.

I disagree it literally happens to the best. Pogba and Bruno have both given the ball away loads of times where it’s lead directly to a chance/goal. Fred has done it before but mostly when he first arrived and wasn’t used to the pace and physicality of the league. Once he’s got up to speed he’s been absolutely fine and much better out the press.

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Mar 23, 2021

TrustInJanuzaj said:
I disagree it literally happens to the best. Pogba and Bruno have both given the ball away loads of times where it’s lead directly to a chance/goal. Fred has done it before but mostly when he first arrived and wasn’t used to the pace and physicality of the league. Once he’s got up to speed he’s been absolutely fine and much better out the press.

Your username tells me I shouldn’t trust your judgement :lol:

TrustInJanuzaj · Mar 23, 2021

Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Your username tells me I shouldn’t trust your judgement

Your posting history tells me no one should trust yours!

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Mar 23, 2021

TrustInJanuzaj said:
Your posting history tells me no one should trust yours!

Kinda walked into that one. Fair play though I chuckled. I’m right more than I’m wrong though, sadly.

Ace · Mar 23, 2021

Haha the Fred fans are back after a weekend hiatus I see -- Describing him as a "very good player" and fantasizing how he would excel if he played for City under Pep. No way Fred makes it into another top half team, let alone a team with a manager known for intricate linkup play and midfield domination.

Fred is in the Bebe/Manucho category of signings in terms of his actual footballing talent. The bar is incredibly low for this guy and rightfully so.

Fred - £47m well spent

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