It's also why he was happy to be on the bench for us for so long even though he would have started for plenty of other good teams.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Itll have to be some balls up with Leicesters fixture list and the way others are playing tbf.
Jose season was a once off. That would be Ole last year. If Jose followed up top 2 with another 3rd or 2nd place finish he would have seen another year.
That's a great point actually. It shows that's just who he is always has been. Happy to be second if it means he doesn't upset a lot of people.
You are reading too much into it. We dont know what he is like behind closed doors.
Ancelotti is also very nice in public but again it bears no relation to how he is behind closed doors.
And we have seen Ole go after the media and England when he needs to, so enough with saying he is just Mr Nice
We didn't refuse, the FA pushed us into it.
FfsThank goodness he was happy to play his part from the bench, otherwise our treble winning season may have been a double and possibly our most dramatic win ever is erased from history.
Perhaps he wanted to test himself against the best and be a part of something exceptional rather than a ‘good team’...none of us are able to read his mind, all I know is I am glad he stayed.
I'm glad he stayed too and he will always be loved by united fans for that. But as a coach he is not of the level we should be aspiring to be.
Who said the quality of the player shouldn't matter? If we had to play any combination of McTominay, Fred, Matic or Pogba at CB then we would be nowhere near also.
I think all of us fans know that the style of play (or lack thereof) has been a problem for a while. If you play good football, you'll win games and your house is built on solid foundations.
Our play is disjointed and something is deeply wrong with how we are approaching coaching. We should be playing as a team, with a consistent and pleasing tactical identity.
Instead on the pitch it's like most of our players have never met. We play 4-2-3-1 rigidly and wonder why nothing improves. Try a 4-3-3 or a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2 or something, anything to mix it up.
It's not all on OGS. We've got too many "head down selfish players" (Rashford, Martial, Greenwood), CMs who can't pass (McFred), an inconsistent Pogba and Bruno who for all his strengths tries a lot of stuff that doesn't come off.
I'd love to see us control possession and break down teams with good passing and effective tactics.
This doesn't seem possible with our current personnel or leadership. Carrick and McKenna need to go, they're nonentities and part of the problem. We need 2 CMs that can pass, and a creative wide player. I'm not sure OGS is the proper coach and tactician we need either. There's no quick fix.
Our play is disjointed and something is deeply wrong with how we are approaching coaching. We should be playing as a team, with a consistent and pleasing tactical identity.
Instead on the pitch it's like most of our players have never met. We play 4-2-3-1 rigidly and wonder why nothing improves. Try a 4-3-3 or a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2 or something, anything to mix it up.
It's not all on OGS. We've got too many "head down selfish players" (Rashford, Martial, Greenwood), CMs who can't pass (McFred), an inconsistent Pogba and Bruno who for all his strengths tries a lot of stuff that doesn't come off.
I'd love to see us control possession and break down teams with good passing and effective tactics.
This doesn't seem possible with our current personnel or leadership. Carrick and McKenna need to go, they're nonentities and part of the problem. We need 2 CMs that can pass, and a creative wide player. I'm not sure OGS is the proper coach and tactician we need either. There's no quick fix.
They didn't 'have to' play any CM at centre back. They just chose not to play the younger options and made the mistake of selling Lovren in the summer with no replacement.
I agree though. When you have lesser quality players the 'coaching' coincidently doesn't appear to be as good. Like the drop off from our first XI to line ups like yesterday.
Many people wonder why City & Chelsea can make changes to their teams for cup games but still be able to produce the same level of performance and unlike us no significant drop off, well it comes down to the fact that they are working under coaches who actually know what they are doing whereas we are inexperienced FC in that department.
Considering that according to the snide smart arses on here there are 19 better coaches and he has only signed dross then being second he is actually massively overachieving.
I don't think there's any evidence that we're well coached - and maybe this season is more difficult in that sense, so many times Ole says there's less time to work on things as they games come thick and fast.
Those two sides you mention though have better depth. City obviously have two good teams, but Chelsea have the 2nd best depth in the league and were being held back by Lampard. Rudiger, Zouma, Christensen, Silva. Not too shabby. Alonso and Chilwell at left back. Reece James and Azpilicueta at right back. With Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante in midfield - Mount at a push. Attacking midfield/forwards: Havertz, Mount, CHO, Ziyech, Pulisic. Forwards/strikers: Giroud, Abraham, Werner.
That's a lot better than we have. For starters, we have only two centre backs who aren't always injured. We have one right back, who plays all the time and 3 midfielders who aren't at the same level as their midfield. We also have a smaller pool to choose from in the attacking third. We probably have the better starting 11 (on paper, outside of coaching/management).
Or you can view it as he does what's best for the team? Perhaps a life long United fan? Don't see how this is a clear case of he's happy to be second if others are happy.
I agree he should be tougher on our players, but to make an assumption like that is reaching.
I am in complete agreement that there are plenty of managers out there who’d be a serious upgrade on Ole. He could be out of a job tomorrow and not a single PL club would appoint him.
Even those managers you mentioned who many like to call ‘hipster managers’ just because they like to experiment with formations would be a serious upgrade.
Do they even do pies these days at OT or is it all just fancy Pot Noodles and that?
He was actually a Liverpool fan as a kid just fyi
It’s a bit difficult not to question the coaching at times; just look at the hash of things we can make from our own throw in. The number of times we surrender possession from our throw ins is woeful for a top team. If we can’t get a controlled set piece right it’s no wonder we are struggling in other areas of our play.
This has driven me mad for years. We always take forever over them and then usually turnover possession. May as well just let the opposition have all of them.
How can we be so shit at something so simple? It's like nobody moves into space or the thrower doesn't even consider throwing it backwards.
I think LVG was close to the SAF period and so it looked terrible, other than some really good games towards the end of his first season (the Liverpool/Spurs games were really good). I don't think Ole's is better football but there aren't as many terrible transfers as there were back then.
This team is under-coached and boring, LVG's was over-coached and boring. I thought LVG was maybe worth one more season with you. He had Martial flying and had just won silverware...
This team is under-coached and boring, LVG's was over-coached and boring. I thought LVG was maybe worth one more season with you. He had Martial flying and had just won silverware...
Sir Matt Busby said something along the lines of the factory workers having boring jobs and need to be entertained was the start of our philosophy. LVGs style of play was so far removed from that I'd say 99% of United supporters where happy to see him go. Without meaning to sound entitled, winning isn't everything. It's the way we win that counts.
It was also an achievement then. Especially for Jose. He finished above 3 teams with much better squads than he had. Then woodward decided to not build on that in the summer and everyone over took us again.
LVG never finished in second so that doesn't count .
Besides, even if you think they were past it. Neither were poor coaches and the league table was ample proof.
My point is simple. The league table doesn't lie. Poor coaches and poorly coached teams can NEVER near the top of the table. Ever.
Poor coaches are often from 10th downwards. No matter the level of resources they have because they are poor.
Not to mention poor coaches don't keep getting results every season against truly elite coaches.
Not arguing with that. Most of LVG’s football was boring, he missed out on Champions League, too. Question is whether Ole‘s football is more entertaining. I’m not a United fan but I always watch them. I think the football is usually boring and but can see he’s doing a decent job, without being a really good coach. I think a third season with OGS coaching is pushing you luck a bit...
After SAF our club has been managed by 4 footballing dinosaurs. Ole cracking that at 48 is quite a feat. Serious question though. Why are you always watching us with a lot of the performances we've been churning out for a long time now? There's a lot of United supporters who don't seem too fussed if they miss a game or 2. To me it seems strange watching us when you have no stake in it.
Good question. I watch almost every game that’s on anyway, more specifically...
Moved abroad about 15 years ago, United were pretty much the only team on TV every week. That was when Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo were up front, my mate was a United fan. That was a class team. Just got into the habit of having beers with my mate and watching them. Never really hated United when Rovers and United were against each other anyway...
Would rather United be doing alright rather than clubs like City or Chelsea, and never want Liverpool to do well.
I think you’re absolutely right in this.
Some of your supporters slag your players off for losing the ball in tight situations, or for making errant passes under pressure, but the cause is a pitiful lack of good training.
Players in a well trained side don’t need to think about what they do, they just do it because they are coached rigorously in how to do what they need to do while under pressure.
They aren’t better players, they’re better coached players. They work as a unit, they always have options and know where those options are.
Both, he bought a goalkeeper and defender and Liverpool stop leaking goals. He also elevate players like Salah and Mane. Lastly, his tactic is why he is successful. Liverpool has been going to the quarter, semi and finals to champion league for the last few years and Ole can't even make it pass the group stage. If Liverpool injuries isn't that bad, they would probably be in 2nd place and much closer to City. Ole needed Leicester to collapse to make it go top 4 last season. If Chelsea didn't appoint a rookie manager, they would likely be higher than us. Tuchel and Kloop are bringing their style which they have their team to play for years. Ole is just a infant compare to them. Night and day.
Going back to well coached and trained players. Remember an interview with Tony Adams, I think it was the season when Arsenal went unbeaten. The interviewer came round to why Arsenals defence were so strong on dealing with corners and free kicks into the box. Adams replied that it was very simple when he or another defender made a defensive header they always cleared the ball to the byline as they knew thats where the full backs would be. They had a system which clearly worked the majority of times for them, coached and drilled.
Average coaches set the system up according to the opponent. Every now and then they will pull a wonder performance out, or equally likely get it totally wrong and lose to a minnow.
Good coaches put a system in place first, and then adapt it to the opponent as each game comes.
It's blatantly obvious what we have.
Good coaches put a system in place first, and then adapt it to the opponent as each game comes.
It's blatantly obvious what we have.
Yeah I have never hated the bloke but just feel he is out of his depth and is far too resistant to making coaching changes because those people won't have this Utd DNA that is becoming far too commonplace since he got the jobJesus
You have totally nailed it there we are very much halfway house FC and it won't change
I don't get how everyone is missing this. Good football for a big club is not about the aesthetics of pleasing fans for the sake of a YouTube compilation, it provides sustainability in the long run as it's a platform for success.
Solskjaer can buy Mbappe, Grealish, Haaland and the next flavour of the month but if the players have no foundation to perform the end result is disappointment.
Because of what Ole gives the team, he has more chance of winning the league, compared to any knock-out competition. The league is a marathon and therefore forgiving, a team can play averagely throughout much of a season and still attain a decent position due to the longevity of a campaign (Mourinho 2nd). But the reason the club will continue to come short in the UCL, domestics cups is because the team cannot impose themselves.
Yeah how are we expected to be positive about the future when we keep on serving up guff like this on a regular basis
The Ole inners would lose their shit big time but don't worry guys it won't happen
Hmmm. I can't believe you just said the PL is forgiving and a team can be average and still attain a decent position. Really?
Might want to change that to three or four more because we still have massive holes in the first XI
Chelsea lost 31% of their games last season and still finished fourth. Likewise City lost nine games last season and finished second. The football under Mourinho within the 17/18 season was also abysmal and the club finished second.
I'm not exactly sure what's shocking about what's been said, it's more common sense given that the criteria of winning the league is proportional to the averages of points attained. Knockout competition is solely based on the form of a given team on the night which requires consistency of performance to win. Of course a domestic league is more forgiving within the comparison of the two. If it needs to be broken down further an inconsistent team will benefit more in a league environment more than that of a cup competition.
That’s the point. If you have a well coached system, as long as the incoming player is drilled and knows his role, changes to personnel aren’t as noticeable or negatively impactful. However, when we make whole sale changes, it’s down to individuals to be able to produce the goods rather than slot into a highly coached system - they therefore fall flat on their face time and time again and we the fans notice the big drop off.
This. When City bring in Player X for Player Y it’s because they’re both the same cogs in the same system. They both know their role, and so do their team mates. The machine carries on running just as smoothly regardless and nothing changes really, whereas we have to start from scratch every time. We’re a team of individuals thrown together in the hope that one of them produces at some point in the 90. The closest we might get is a relationship forming between two players like on the left with Rashford and Shaw, but we can’t even get a good centre back pairing to click so what chance have we elsewhere on the field.
We’re relying on individuals to conjure up a piece of magic, like Pogba against Fulham and Milan, Amad in the 1st leg against Milan, or a Bruno penalty etc. That individual brilliance isn’t as reliable, and will of course let you down from time to time. People blame our young team for our inconsistency, but for me it’s just the fact that we seem to make each game up as we go along - and this isn’t a new thing either. People, myself included, have been moaning about this on here for nigh on a decade.