Hahaha so true. In my experience, they do it so they don't hurt themselves.
Erling Haaland
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
red thru&thru
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2004
- Messages
- 7,657
And amazing how many clubs want his clients. For me, people haven't moved on with the times. For better or worse, football has changed. The power is no longer with the greedy football owners, the players are taking more control of their own careers.If Raiola is as bad as what people here claimed he would have lost all his clients and out of work already.
red thru&thru
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2004
- Messages
- 7,657
Just curious to understand, do you believe it's okay for clubs to keep moving on players/managers and not give them stability when they need it?Why would he lose them? His clients are apparently fine with being moved on, so neither his clients or him seem to have a big problem with it, i.e Pogba, Haaland, Zlatan. His clients doesn't perceive him as bad, as he convinces them the moves he does are the best moves, both before and after he has stirred up a shitshow.
It's clubs like us who want stable players we can count on that is a bad fit for Raiola as we have succes as our ultimate end-goal. Raiola has earning cash as his end goal, and some of his most profiled players are flexible as to whether they go to club a or club b. Hence he doesn't lose his work. Good for him, sometimes for the players, sometimes/rarely for the clubs.
It's 2021, zoom ffs.Haaland dad and riola due in london today apparently according to spainish papers. Talks with City, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool.
gajender
Full Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2016
- Messages
- 3,844
When you pay the biggest wages in the world and aren't averse to breaking transfer records it's easy to get what you want but things tend to get trickier once you aren't the only one with that capability ,it would be interesting to see how things pan out in summer.Real and or Barca normally get what they want.
mitchmouse
loves to hate United.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2014
- Messages
- 17,486
I've been wondering and I can't come to a conclusion, whether Raiola, behind the annoying fanfare and in-your-face publicity, is actually achieving the best he can for his clients, or whether his obsession with playing the field and orchestrating high profile transfer moves is ending up shaping the careers of his clients in a way that might be detrimental?
For example, Ibrahimovic had a glorious career, I'm sure he made truckloads of money and is a global icon, but in terms of actual footballing achievements it somehow feels like he always was at the wrong place at the wrong time, like his moves never transported him into the center of footballing glory? Or am I wrong in that impression?
Pogba, slightly similar feeling. Was the United move really the best move for his career? Financially, probably yes but still I will say no considering Pogba hasn't managed to translate his qualities onto the pitch for the most part, and considering Raiola has been lobbying publicly for an exit ever since, and I can't imagine that this is ultimately great for a player's happiness.
But then again, it struck me in the bolded part of your post - both Ibrahimovic and Haaland are from Skandinavia, from countries with a relatively weak domestic league and no top level 'home club' of sorts where they could start of a career as a club legend. So, being top talents, their trajectory, their aim, will be that of moving elsewhere from the get go.
I wonder if that doesn't play a role here, too, with what kind of career Ibra had and which Haaland might have.
An English player, Spanish player, German player, can always, if they're top talents, move early to an adjacent top club in their country, or in the case of Germany Bayern, (if they're not from their youth already) which can serve as their 'home' club. The need to move, in order to have a top career with top achievements, wouldn't be so primary?
As much as Raiola might seem to be a dick of most of us, if he is then why do so many players hire him. Answer, he gets top deals or them. If I was in a job where an agent could get me more security, better pay etc, why would I use Johnny Nobody instead?
TheReligion
Abusive
RicharlisonReal and or Barca normally get what they want.
Im not too sure why people are assuming he's coming to United with all the comments Riola has made about us. I think he's going to be the Aguero replacement unfortunately rather than Martial. Really hope im wrong, but if i was going to place a bet thats what it would be on.
GatoLoco
Full Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2018
- Messages
- 3,276
- Supports
- Real Madrid
If that was so evident I would run away from Raiola if I was a player. On the contrary, he manages to attract some of the best footballers in the continent. How is that possible?Bad manners annoy everyone when you have to deal with the person! We aren't robots. Flip side of your (somewhat weak) argument is that the club would be willing to give players even better deal if the agent wasn't such a pri.ck.
Difference being, Mourinho represents himself, Raiola represents someone else, and we are just focusing on the latter's techniques during negotiations and whether these (dirty) techniques favor his clients or not under very precise conditions.People do all sorts of things out of spite. Just look at Jose and Ole. Only reason clubs tolerate Jose is because he won trophies, as soon as clubs realize that's not happening he is shown the door. On the other hand Ole is likely to get a contract extension, while winning nothing and generally playing mediocre football all year that sometimes looks less organized than a bottom of the table team. Why do you think that is?
Hell its better to have an average team mate who is pleasant to be around than a brilliant one who is a total tw@t. Not a direct analogy but you get the point.
Also remember he's an agent! He is not working for you as a player or manager. If Raiola was a player he could probably be the most pleasant guy you've ever seen during negotiations, or just whatever he needs to be to get the best deal.
If we are going by that logic he won't join City either as Raoila hates Pep.Im not too sure why people are assuming he's coming to United with all the comments Riola has made about us. I think he's going to be the Aguero replacement unfortunately rather than Martial. Really hope im wrong, but if i was going to place a bet thats what it would be on.
Doesn't mean shit though. He'll join whichever club he wants to irrespective of Railoa's relationship to it.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2013
- Messages
- 912
We pay huge wages too, do you ever got the feeling we get who we want?When you pay the biggest wages in the world and aren't averse to breaking transfer records it's easy to get what you want but things tend to get trickier once you aren't the only one with that capability ,it would be interesting to see how things pan out in summer.
sparx99
Full Member
- Joined
- May 22, 2016
- Messages
- 3,911
Raiola has these arguments with everything. It's literally his job. Just look at Ibrahimovic and Guardiola at Barca. Or more recently Donnarumma and Milan. We just have a hyper Utd focus so we think its just us he talks about this way.Im not too sure why people are assuming he's coming to United with all the comments Riola has made about us. I think he's going to be the Aguero replacement unfortunately rather than Martial. Really hope im wrong, but if i was going to place a bet thats what it would be on.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2013
- Messages
- 912
Its possible because Raiola takes care of his clients, but so do others without being nasty. Have you seen the clientele list of Jorge Mendes? And he never has to run his mouth.If that was so evident I would run away from Raiola if I was a player. On the contrary, he manages to attract some of the best footballers in the continent. How is that possible?
Difference being, Mourinho represents himself, Raiola represents someone else, and we are just focusing on the latter's techniques during negotiations and whether these (dirty) techniques favor his clients or not under very precise conditions.
Also remember he's an agent! He is not working for you as a player or manager. If Raiola was a player he could probably be the most pleasant guy you've ever seen during negotiations, or just whatever he needs to be to get the best deal.
You are deliberately trying not to see the point, not sure why.
Denis79
Full Member
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2014
- Messages
- 7,763
He's not coming here, I would absolutely love that he does but he won't.Im not too sure why people are assuming he's coming to United with all the comments Riola has made about us. I think he's going to be the Aguero replacement unfortunately rather than Martial. Really hope im wrong, but if i was going to place a bet thats what it would be on.
gajender
Full Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2016
- Messages
- 3,844
No we don't to the Extent of Spanish Giants look at their Barcelona's wages to turnover ratio and it's just not because of Messi either.We pay huge wages too, do you ever got the feeling we get who we want?
- Joined
- May 23, 2018
- Messages
- 645
They are doing a European trip in the middle of the season, during a pandemic, after just a year at his current club and pimping him out to a bunch of new ones.
I honestly think the lad will bring a circus with him... At the first sign of a difficulty, Mino will be out in the press pleading sympathy for his enslaved charge.
I honestly think the lad will bring a circus with him... At the first sign of a difficulty, Mino will be out in the press pleading sympathy for his enslaved charge.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2013
- Messages
- 912
Ridiculous. United are consistently one of the top 3-5 paying clubs in the world.No we don't to the Extent of Spanish Giants look at their Barcelona's wages to turnover ratio and it's just not because of Messi either.
Sayros
Full Member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2015
- Messages
- 6,006
- Supports
- Paris Saint-Germain
A bit classless from Haaland's entourage, and disrespectful to Dortmund, but I'm assuming they all knew what the deal was going to be, especially given the team's struggles and potential lack of CL. This is clearly a show for the press, and now they got everybody talking, well done.
gajender
Full Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2016
- Messages
- 3,844
Yes we are but you again are ignoring my initial point we are nowhere near Spanish Giants in terms of wages paid ,Real and Barcelona pay some crazy wages to individual players which make them highly attractive for players and weren't reluctant to pay big transfer fees on top of that atleast they used to along with their history but if they won't continue to do that they won't be getting the best players in the world .Ridiculous. United are consistently one of the top 3-5 paying clubs in the world.
Psg was suppose to be intermediate stop for Neymar before moving to Madrid atleast that's how many saw it but he is still there and don't be surprised if Mbappe doesn't arrive at Madrid either.
Adcuth
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2013
- Messages
- 3,721
Whats the deal with the beef between pep and mino?
red thru&thru
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2004
- Messages
- 7,657
The reality is, you have to have good relationships with agents.
However, an agent will only do what a player wants to do. The agent represents the player, not the player represents the agent.
However, an agent will only do what a player wants to do. The agent represents the player, not the player represents the agent.
red thru&thru
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2004
- Messages
- 7,657
Back in the days when Zlatan was at Barca.Whats the deal with the beef between pep and mino?
VP89
Pogba's biggest fan
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2015
- Messages
- 31,426
It's actually more recent than that. Pep leaked that Pogba was offered to City by Raiola whilst still being a United player, which pissed Raiola right off.Back in the days when Zlatan was at Barca.
To be frank, that's what I want from managers and clubs, giving the agents a taste of their own medicine and not planning an entire summer around them.
I don't think anyone denies that, but no club needs to deal with Raiola's shit.The reality is, you have to have good relationships with agents.
However, an agent will only do what a player wants to do. The agent represents the player, not the player represents the agent.
IncyWincySpider
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2021
- Messages
- 523
Exactly. Serious alarm bells ringing about what it would be like to have this guy at the club.They are doing a European trip in the middle of the season, during a pandemic, after just a year at his current club and pimping him out to a bunch of new ones.
I honestly think the lad will bring a circus with him... At the first sign of a difficulty, Mino will be out in the press pleading sympathy for his enslaved charge.
Heinzesight
Full Member
As good as he is, if he comes here it’ll be 3 or 4 years max before Raiola’s European Roadshow is back...imagining him today like a young Clark Griswold, “look Erling, Big Ben, Parliament.”
Anyway, the figures being talked about are bonkers so I’d rather go balls deep on Kane (oo’er) with him being PL proven and we might get 3 guaranteed top quality years of him in his pomp. Still think he’ll stay at Spurs though the daft bastard.
Anyway, the figures being talked about are bonkers so I’d rather go balls deep on Kane (oo’er) with him being PL proven and we might get 3 guaranteed top quality years of him in his pomp. Still think he’ll stay at Spurs though the daft bastard.
red thru&thru
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2004
- Messages
- 7,657
100% true, nobody needs to deal with it. With that, they will lose out on some of the top talent. If they happy to do that, the club will need to make a stance and just hope none of their own youngsters team up with him.It's actually more recent than that. Pep leaked that Pogba was offered to City by Raiola whilst still being a United player, which pissed Raiola right off.
To be frank, that's what I want from managers and clubs, giving the agents a taste of their own medicine and not planning an entire summer around them.
I don't think anyone denies that, but no club needs to deal with Raiola's shit.
Irrational.
Full Member
Nah, Dortmund knew what they were signing up to when they got Haaland. They were always a stepping stone club, a feeder club - and signed him knowing he wouldn't be there for more than a couple of years.A bit classless from Haaland's entourage, and disrespectful to Dortmund, but I'm assuming they all knew what the deal was going to be, especially given the team's struggles and potential lack of CL. This is clearly a show for the press, and now they got everybody talking, well done.
It would be foolish of them to dig their heels in this summer when he could leave for a cut price fee next year - and they know they'll have to let him go if a decent fee is offered, or they'll get stung again like they did with Sancho. A bird in the hand and all that...
red thru&thru
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2004
- Messages
- 7,657
How do we know that BvB haven't given their blessing for Haaland Snr & Mino to talk with potential suitors??
Matriac
Full Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2020
- Messages
- 1,479
This tour now is also to put pressure on Dortmund to get their act together to finish top 4. For all we know the club might have agreed in the contract that the release clause activates early if they fail to qualify for the CL. Considering they finished top4 in 9 of the last 10 seasons that would be thought to be low risk a year ago.
GatoLoco
Full Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2018
- Messages
- 3,276
- Supports
- Real Madrid
I see your point. I think the issue is just that we are speaking about very different concepts. You are speaking about economics and morals and I was merely speaking about the economics and how what Raiola does works very well for his players.Its possible because Raiola takes care of his clients, but so do others without being nasty. Have you seen the clientele list of Jorge Mendes? And he never has to run his mouth.
You are deliberately trying not to see the point, not sure why.
Think about a very particular negotiation:
- If Raiola manners are annoying to the club from a negotiation point of view, he's doing his job right.
- If they are excessively annoying and that means the club wants to break the negotiation even though the player was genuinely interested in the club, he goes against his client's best interest. Hence, players will avoid him like the plague.
- And if they don't have any effect, nobody should care in terms of negotiating the best deal for each part.
The summary is that Raiola is not an idiot, and he perfectly knows when he has to be aggressive and when he has to calm down. I don't say he's the best agent in the world, better than Mendes or anything like that (how can we possibly determine that?), but it's clear for everyone to see that his style of negotiation works very well for his clients, otherwise he would never attract guys like Haaland, Ibrahimovic or Pogba.
theklr
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 2,659
Would rather have Sancho and Rice if that was the alternative
charlenefan
Far less insightful than the other Charley
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 33,052
Pep's just said City can't afford him (or Kane) and that's there's more chance of them signing no striker than there is that they do
Acrobat7
Full Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2013
- Messages
- 5,246
- Supports
- Bayern Munich
Barca and Real pay more to their top earners but the „average“ top player makes more at United (or Bayern).Ridiculous. United are consistently one of the top 3-5 paying clubs in the world.
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,705
No surprise, really. I think City can spend €70-80m max this summer plus what they generate from sales (Harrison, Ilic, Herrera). Some no.9 will be signed but maybe Andre Silva is more likely.Pep's just said City can't afford him (or Kane) and that's there's more chance of them signing no striker than there is that they do
Baneofthegame
Full Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2019
- Messages
- 3,009
So are you happy he does this with our players? I’m certainly not and I wouldn’t be as a Dortmund fan either.I mean we have players signed to Raiola? And he's done this multiple times already? Talking to Pep about Pogba a couple years ago springs to mind.
There's two sides to this though, isnt it? Is he good for the club his players play at? No. Is he good for his clients? Yes. I have no problems understanding why players chose Raiola as a client, he does an excellent job for them. However, for the club that has to deal with Raiola's thundercnut tactics there's a point where it no longer becomes worth it. And in my opinion, as for Manchester United, Raiola has shown time and time again he has no problems throwing us under the bus for his personal gain, our players, our club, our management and our pride.
As a club, I would like if we made it a policy not to deal with this cretin.
I agree with your second point, that from his and his clients POV it’s probably great, which is why he is hired.
Idxomer
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2014
- Messages
- 15,202
Expected.
Robertd0803
Full Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2014
- Messages
- 6,564
Yup. Same.Would rather have Sancho and Rice if that was the alternative
I dont think we have a hope of signing him so rather he goes to Madrid or Barca out of the way.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.