City supporter in the house. Didn't even try to act like a United supporter. They say you're only as good as your last game and the last time we played City at their ground we won 2-0. Surprised by that given how much better you think ALL of their players our than ours.
How good are we?
- Thread starter OverratedOpinion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
mitchmouse
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Lots of people are blaming the draws but losing to Sheffield United (in particular), Crystal Palace and a then-dreadful Arsenal were nine points thrown away. Yes, the draws were games we could/should have won but those stupid losses annoy me more. So to answer the question, how good are we: not nearly good enoughIf your mother had a cock she'd be your father. We can only focus on our own team. The goal this year was to improve the points tally on last season, which we should improve, but not by enough. Those draws are the problem. This thread is about United, not City.
Green_Red
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I agree with that too. Very dissappointing to start the season off like that against Palace. The 6-1 to Spurs needs to be avenged this weekend.Lots of people are blaming the draws but losing to Sheffield United (in particular), Crystal Palace and a then-dreadful Arsenal were nine points thrown away. Yes, the draws were games we could/should have won but those stupid losses annoy me more. So to answer the question, how good are we: not nearly good enough
RedRob
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On our day, we can give any team in the world a game and have a reasonable chance.
What we lack is consistency, with us never knowing which United would show up. It feels like a long time ago that United were top of the league around New Year's (with City's games in hand not giving them the required points to catch). It's the same problem as kept arising in the race for third last year really - an opportunity comes up for United to make ground or extend a lead, and the team get vertigo. People talk about needing players in X, Y or Z positions, but what we really need is players with the right mentality.
What we lack is consistency, with us never knowing which United would show up. It feels like a long time ago that United were top of the league around New Year's (with City's games in hand not giving them the required points to catch). It's the same problem as kept arising in the race for third last year really - an opportunity comes up for United to make ground or extend a lead, and the team get vertigo. People talk about needing players in X, Y or Z positions, but what we really need is players with the right mentality.
Hammondo
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Can you name another top team that so often plays Europa league?Not really a league though, it's a tournament and not always a true indication of a team's level - a bad game or two can have you kicked out with no chance of recovery. The 2 legged ties do make it a better judge than one off tie tournaments though
It’s not as though Shaw has suddenly become good after being terrible for years; he won POTY two seasons ago and he was on a fantastic run of form before he had his leg broken. The media may prefer the “he’s suddenly come good” story, but it’s not the reality.Consistency is the big factor. Robertson like many other names on OP's list had been fantastic for multiple seasons, this years Luke Shaw makes last seasons, and those years prior look like schoolboy performances. If Luke replicates this level for another year I'd call him a world class LB.
I agree with you on Rashford.
Hammondo
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I didn't say there were 14 teams better than us. I would say Bayern, PSG, Barce, Real all have at least a shout at being better, with a lot of outsiders.And what teams are they? I'd also still like to know the 14+ teams that are better than us.
Bare in mind that City have made it to the semi finals once, never the finals. Lyon and Leipzig made semis last season.
van Persie
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If his mother had a cock he would likely not have been born if nature had anything to say about itIf your mother had a cock she'd be your father. We can only focus on our own team. The goal this year was to improve the points tally on last season, which we should improve, but not by enough. Those draws are the problem. This thread is about United, not City.
I agree but even if we look back over the last 2 months in 6 games against, Arsenal, liverpool, Chelsea, Sheffield United, CP and WBA we have scored the grand total of 2 goals in those 6 games. 13 points dropped which would put us ahead of City.Lots of people are blaming the draws but losing to Sheffield United (in particular), Crystal Palace and a then-dreadful Arsenal were nine points thrown away. Yes, the draws were games we could/should have won but those stupid losses annoy me more. So to answer the question, how good are we: not nearly good enough
If we had a Kane, Halaand, or Lewandowski we would be top of the league now and still in CL.
We are just missing an elite striker.....that's it and those 6 games are the proof of it.
ivaldo
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As I said, PL is top of the coefficient based purely on the performances in European competitions. For several years now PL teams as a whole have been performing markedly better than our european counterparts. We've had 3 finalists in the past 3 years. Spain has had 1, Germany 1 and France 1. I don't get how, after seeing that, anyone can say the PL is comparatively weak. Which was the basis of the argument of the person I originally responded to who said there are 10/15 teams better than us.I didn't say there were 14 teams better than us. I would say Bayern, PSG, Barce, Real all have at least a shout at being better, with a lot of outsiders.
Bare in mind that City have made it to the semi finals once, never the finals. Lyon and Leipzig made semis last season.
GlasgowCeltic
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Undoubtably a good team, very tough to beat though generally equally tough to watch
Eugenius
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Third best team in the country (although Chelsea probably run us close). Would probably win the league if it was a Leicester type scenario where City and Liverpool implode.
Probably quarter final of CL / serious Europa League contenders is probably our level in Europe.
Probably 3 quality signings away from being serious challengers to the top 2, but also 3 injuries away at any one time from struggling to make top 4 (still too dependent on individuals).
Probably quarter final of CL / serious Europa League contenders is probably our level in Europe.
Probably 3 quality signings away from being serious challengers to the top 2, but also 3 injuries away at any one time from struggling to make top 4 (still too dependent on individuals).
united_99
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We are a good team, a very good on our day, but a couple of levels below the top teams in Europe (Let’s take RM and Bayern as examples as they have been successful in Europe in recent years).
If we played them in a knock out tie or even in a final 8 times out of 10 we would lose because right now in terms of player quality and tactically we are not there yet.
But we are playing all kind of European opposition all the time this season and we can only learn from the experience. However in order to bridge the gap further we need to improve our starting 11 at least in midfield and right wing, otherwise there is absolutely no chance we are closing the gap.
And let’s not forget that even when we were much better ages ago, we still mostly lost our games against RM, Barca, Milan and Bayern.
In the seasons we won the CL we didn’t mainly win it due to some kind of tactical masterclasses, but rather because our teams were great and at their peak in those CL winning seasons (and with very few exceptions - Liverpool 2005, Chelsea 2012 - this is mostly the case with CL winners).
If we played them in a knock out tie or even in a final 8 times out of 10 we would lose because right now in terms of player quality and tactically we are not there yet.
But we are playing all kind of European opposition all the time this season and we can only learn from the experience. However in order to bridge the gap further we need to improve our starting 11 at least in midfield and right wing, otherwise there is absolutely no chance we are closing the gap.
And let’s not forget that even when we were much better ages ago, we still mostly lost our games against RM, Barca, Milan and Bayern.
In the seasons we won the CL we didn’t mainly win it due to some kind of tactical masterclasses, but rather because our teams were great and at their peak in those CL winning seasons (and with very few exceptions - Liverpool 2005, Chelsea 2012 - this is mostly the case with CL winners).
The_Midfielder
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We won at Paris against this same PSG..Anyone that watched the Champions League matches over the week then seeing our performance in the Europa League knows just how far we are. There's a lot of work to be done and our style is still not clear.
Hammondo
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Obviously we are the strongest league but this topic is about how good United are, and in the grand scale of things are in a big group of teams that can do well but can do badly and don't stand out.As I said, PL is top of the coefficient based purely on the performances in European competitions. For several years now PL teams as a whole have been performing markedly better than our european counterparts. We've had 3 finalists in the past 3 years. Spain has had 1, Germany 1 and France 1. I don't get how, after seeing that, anyone can say the PL is comparatively weak. Which was the basis of the argument of the person I originally responded to who said there are 10/15 teams better than us.
ivaldo
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The reason why we are here is because you said this:Obviously we are the strongest league but this topic is about how good United are, and in the grand scale of things are in a big group of teams that can do well but can do badly and don't stand out.
I don't think anyone is staring we're an incredible team, but being second in the hardest league in the world shows we aren't nearly as bad as so many make out.Maybe overall but the top of the PL is nowhere near the best compared to other leagues.
Hammondo
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We are not bad, we are practical. We cannot play at the top level of football.The reason why we are here is because you said this:
I don't think anyone is staring we're an incredible team, but being second in the hardest league in the world shows we aren't nearly as bad as so many make out.
City is just not as good as the top teams in the CL. I think they can be, but they fall short.
MyOnlySolskjaer
Creator of Player Performance threads
When you compare the attacking output from Shaw this season, compared to any other season he's had, then it's just a completely different level and that's the factor that makes him a complete left-back. When he last won the POTY, he did not have crossing, dead balls or quick passing as part of his game, it was more of the case of being the best of a bad bunch and being a fairly solid fast defender. If he wins it this season it's because his all-round game going forward and defending has been fantastic and against a better standard of player such as Bruno and Rashford. If he replicates this level specifically, staying injury free with both elements of attacking and defending, then that's more of an indication to me that he's a world-class player than just world-class form.It’s not as though Shaw has suddenly become good after being terrible for years; he won POTY two seasons ago and he was on a fantastic run of form before he had his leg broken. The media may prefer the “he’s suddenly come good” story, but it’s not the reality.
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Glorio
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We've been bad for an extended time (up until January last year really) so it figures that we've been in the Europa league a few times. We were in the Champions League this season, and will almost certainly be in the Champions League next season. When last could we say that back to back?Can you name another top team that so often plays Europa league?
Green_Red
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Jesus, take it literally why don't you. I'm guessing English isn't your first language?If his mother had a cock he would likely not have been born if nature had anything to say about it
Jeffthered
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We are ok, but still punching below our weight of a club of our resource, history and stature. Way below.
Thing is with me, is that I still fail to see a United style of play that is clear, dominant, and most importantly, one that may actually win big trophies, rather than a few games. I look at City, Liverpool, (and now dare I say it, Chelsea under Tuchel?????) all of which seem, seem to have a clearer identity in terms of their approach to the development of their teams. They look like teams who can win big trophies. Do I think we will really challenge for the league or CL next season? Unfortunately, I do not, and I don't even feel our manager would wish to commit to such a statement, despite nearly 130 games in charge. Remember, we were TOP of the league this season! And that's the key for me. We have some v v v good players, but still not a real sense of intent. City have it. Liverpool have it. Chelsea I have to watch, because Tuchel seems, seems to have it, although it's early days if we wish to compare.
Are we better than Leicester? Tottenham? I don't think we are, think we all about on a similar level. One off we can beat anyone.. City, PSG etc. But we can also get turned over by the same teams, so I am not quite sure how to really evaluate us.
Thing is with me, is that I still fail to see a United style of play that is clear, dominant, and most importantly, one that may actually win big trophies, rather than a few games. I look at City, Liverpool, (and now dare I say it, Chelsea under Tuchel?????) all of which seem, seem to have a clearer identity in terms of their approach to the development of their teams. They look like teams who can win big trophies. Do I think we will really challenge for the league or CL next season? Unfortunately, I do not, and I don't even feel our manager would wish to commit to such a statement, despite nearly 130 games in charge. Remember, we were TOP of the league this season! And that's the key for me. We have some v v v good players, but still not a real sense of intent. City have it. Liverpool have it. Chelsea I have to watch, because Tuchel seems, seems to have it, although it's early days if we wish to compare.
Are we better than Leicester? Tottenham? I don't think we are, think we all about on a similar level. One off we can beat anyone.. City, PSG etc. But we can also get turned over by the same teams, so I am not quite sure how to really evaluate us.
Norman Brownbutter
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I think we have the players to play some good stuff, we just dont have the tactics to show case it. In my opinion, theres been an issue with the coaching departments for a very long time. After Moyes fired everyone, to replace them with his Everton duds, theres been something missing. Managers come and go, but the passing for example is still largely dog shit.
Stack
Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
Just watch them play.... better than us.We are ahead of them in the league and advanced further in Europe; how can they be better then us? It's fairly close as it stands, but if one team is better then it's us for sure.
jackal&hyde
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Did you watch them in Europe? ShambolicJust watch them play.... better than us.
Stack
Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
did you watch us in the champions league? shambolicDid you watch them in Europe? Shambolic
jackal&hyde
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We beat PSG by being better then them and destroyed Leipzig. Lost to PSG after having a man sent off. We were shambolic in one game and that was enough not to make it out.did you watch us in the champions league? shambolic
We were better in this elimination then Leicester has ever been in the CL or Europa League.
Stack
Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
They are still better than usWe beat PSG by being better then them and destroyed Leipzig. Lost to PSG after having a man sent off. We were shambolic in one game and that was enough not to make it out.
We were better in this elimination then Leicester has ever been in the CL or Europa League.
jackal&hyde
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They might be still Dre. Better then us, no.They are still better than us
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Sometimes good, sometimes shit.
SinNombre
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logic is not necessary with inanityThey are still better than us
The Boy
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Disagree with this, Liverpool's fall from grace is about far more than just Van Dyke, they've failed to upgrade properly or well over the last three seasons and they've hit a brick wall. I dont see Klopp turning this around.Liverpool (unless Van Dijk comes back not the same player) will vastly improve next season
Anyway back on topic you're better than Chelsea but not as good as City.
Doracle
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Looking at it objectively, I think we’ve probably got the 4th best squad in England. Probably makes us lower top 10 in Europe overall?
UnrelatedPsuedo
I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
Best at what?The PL is the best league in the world. I'm not sure I understand the logic. That would mean we were worse than every second place team in the top 6 leagues at least.
cyberman
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Our record since signing Bruno has been ridiculous, we became the 2nd best team in England overnight.
We are a very good team now and woth the right additions in the summer
We are a very good team now and woth the right additions in the summer
Based on what? The French league threads are nothing but how shit PSG are and they might not even make CL next year?They are still better than us
Jeffthered
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Not sure we are better than Chelsea. They seem like a team with a manager with a clear vision. We don't , still, and we hope for moments of inspiration.. Bruno, Pogs... sometimes Rashford/Greenwood. What we should be building is a proper footballing unit.. where we know how they will play. Bayern, City, Liverpool, Ajax.. these teams have that, of course all teams have up and down form...but they have a clear style. We do not and I wish we would hurry up and define one.Disagree with this, Liverpool's fall from grace is about far more than just Van Dyke, they've failed to upgrade properly or well over the last three seasons and they've hit a brick wall. I dont see Klopp turning this around.
Anyway back on topic you're better than Chelsea but not as good as City.
UnrelatedPsuedo
I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
Top teams do not go behind as often as we do.
We’re pretty boring to watch but we win lots of games. Very weird team. I think there are plenty of sides in Europe that would beat us over two legs. 10-20 probably.
We’re pretty boring to watch but we win lots of games. Very weird team. I think there are plenty of sides in Europe that would beat us over two legs. 10-20 probably.
jackal&hyde
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We do.Not sure we are better than Chelsea. They seem like a team with a manager with a clear vision. We don't , still, and we hope for moments of inspiration.. Bruno, Pogs... sometimes Rashford/Greenwood. What we should be building is a proper footballing unit.. where we know how they will play. Bayern, City, Liverpool, Ajax.. these teams have that, of course all teams have up and down form...but they have a clear style. We do not and I wish we would hurry up and define one.
ivaldo
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Tennis.Best at what?
SinNombre
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As measured by PL’s #1 spot on the UEFA coefficient rankingsTennis.